What ever happened to?????

[tokinblackguy]

ok, maybe its just me, maybe im just ranting and venting my frustration, but....

remember when you knew everything about a strain before you bought? breeder descriptions that were informative, descriptive, and were a pretty good indicator of what you should expect from your beans. remember asking simple questions about a strain and actually getting the breeder or his staff to go into detail(without revealing trade secrets) about how the strain would perform, phenos, taste, high?

well i remember, as best i can anyways, when things were like that. now the trend seems to be to just show off pictures. i've grown enough herb to know that pretty does not always equal great smoke. the pics are nice, as far as advertisement goes, but i'd much rather like to know what the breeder likes about his own creation besides looks.

this does not apply to all breeders, maybe it's a younger generation thing, i don't know. im in my early-mid 30's which is fairly young for this hobby, but that doesn't mean i'm some high school drop-out that can't read. you got to give me more in the description than dank or super dank. when it comes to the kushes or the chems, there has got to be better words for describing such grail like strains because these are way overused. the same or similar description seems to apply to 20 different strains. i see myself and many others ask about the habits of the plant, tendencies, goals when breeding, outcome or expected outcome if not tested yet. seems we get more pics to show off how pretty it is but seldom an answer to the original question.

maybe hire someone else that knows the plant but better with words. i was literally a click away from ordering something last night i think but after trying to research a little more, i got a headache from what i thought was either redundancy or just plain confusion. it should not be that hard to make an informative decision on a pack of seeds. work harder on telling us why we should buy it and less on simply selling it to us, if that makes any sense at all.

sorry if i offended anyone as it was not my intention, just my thoughts and opinions for those that agree and for those that dont as well. all opinion:character0050:

 

[greenthumbdanny]

This is just my thought on the deal.. Pics are worth a thousand words so to speak.. Over the last couple of years I think most strains/cross's have acumulated plenty of info threw out various cannabis forumz.. Just takes a lil time and research to find info on any particular strain.. Also comes down to if the person is lazy or not.
Fortunately here at the Farm, any question that i have had in the past regarding a strain, you are able to ask the breeder/creator directly.. Now how much better can it get than that:)

:passingjoint:

GTD

 

[tokinblackguy]

yeah, i haven't had too much of a problem here at the farm, most are pretty accessible and friendly.

 

[tokinblackguy]

oh, and when it comes to cannabis, a pic is worth about 100 words maybe...LOL

just my thoughts but a pic cant tell me what the smokes like, how it taste, how it expands, smooth, harsh, heady, undertones, etc. etc. etc.

 

[greenthumbdanny]

Oh very very true TBG.. I hear ya 100% on that one. Would be nice in the genetic make up description, that that good stuff you mentioned be included would save a few questions, that is for sure buddy:)

:passingjoint:


GTD

 

[ismokepot]

My personal policy is if a breeder doesn't list an approx. yield, height, and flowering period- then they are trying to hide something and don't want you to know for fear of decreased sales. So I stay away and go with proven genetics...........

 

[the Rock]

oh, and when it comes to cannabis, a pic is worth about 100 words maybe...LOL

just my thoughts but a pic cant tell me what the smokes like, how it taste, how it expands, smooth, harsh, heady, undertones, etc. etc. etc.

yeah lucky we have the farm here
there have been some pretty "shady" self called breeders around that have posted someone elses pics or pics of something representing that strain their selling or flat out lying about what the "picture" is of
Again were lucky we have people who care here and are willing to remove some so called breeders+=its not just all about the$$$ here thanks farmworkers

 

[The Joker]

What I would like to read is :
expected number of phenotypes and descriptions of each one
expected stretch in flower:
Expected flowering times
Expected taste, smell etc.
And of course , yield.

 

[tokinblackguy]

exactly everyone. if a breeder knows his strains, which they definitely should, things like this should be no problem for him to jot down, do they not keep breeder's notes?

maybe it's more trouble than i know, i obviously am no breeder, but it just seems like such a simple task that would eliminate the need to answer redundant questions. i really appreciate everyone's input, i knew i wasn't the only one.LOL

 

[sour power]

What I would like to read is :
expected number of phenotypes and descriptions of each one
expected stretch in flower:
Expected flowering times
Expected taste, smell etc.
And of course , yield.

what he said lol

 

[diesel]

I agree with joker on phenos, times and rough yield indiciaiton high medium and low would be good enough. I think to quote grams per sq meter or amount per plant is not very accurate. sooo many other factors like lumens per sq ft, grow style length of veg, and then u have air control etc etc.

Reading about the latest kush or cheese cross does not turn me on either, ive tried both in orignal form and they are powerful by all means but it wouldnt be the first or last bud id like to smoke durning the day :P sooo i think its a bit like everyone raving about the suppped up ferrari with rock hard suspension but the best 0-60. i wouldnt be driving that every day... unles i was high and on my own island with naked babes. :P

peace

 

[boxmunch9]

your right on token, I've looked at seeds here that have nothing in the description, just the price.
I started a thread asking for any info on ograskels whitegum, got absolutly no information, just that he had 3 in early flower and some buddies who are growing it? How are you going to sell seeds you havent grown out and tested ect? good pictures thats how

 

[The Joker]

I like breeders who are transparent in how they breed meaning posting pics or descriptions of how they do it . There is a breeder here who shows threads of picking a single female from 240 plants and why and the same process through 2 , 3 and 4 generations of picking the best among hundreds. And to top it off, the prices are reasonable.

Then there are people working with excellent clones, doing untested crosses and selling them for top dollar. I want to see the finished product and the consistency before I buy.

I've said this before...

I've got a collection of excellent clone only strains... and I have gotten weed that rivals the best clones from $15 seeds and bag seed. People poo poo it, because they want to believe the hype or they are hyping for profit. I've grown chemdog, bubba...you name it . They are great, but they were bagseed once.... You don't have to pay $200 for untested seeds to get great weed.

And if you are paying that kind of money, you deserve an accurate description of what you are paying for.

That's been my experience.

 

[negative 1]

hmmmm. i got mixed emotions bout this one. pictures if done properly should tell you what to look for , i mean the breeder is giving you the phenotype to look for. flowering times always differ because noone is gonna do it like the breeder of the strain did. i mean a brief description yes. taste, well not everyone is gonna agree i mean every pallet is different and what you pick up and don't pick up is all exprience. i mean for me if i want to know wha a strain really tastes like i'll cook it in with rice or something else very neutral. smoking it will give you different flavors sometimes i find. i like this debate though. i'd rather see what a strain looks like than read about it. i mean a little on it definetley but harvest size? come on, i've grown out "huge yielders" only to be disappointed while not so "huge yielders" were very promising. there are too many factors to consider and acuratley give detailed descriptions i feel. and as far as shady people putting up pics that are not true to what the bud is, well it's just as easy to lie about it in a write up. no? anyways thats my take on it.
negative 1

 

[tokinblackguy]

I like breeders who are transparent in how they breed meaning posting pics or descriptions of how they do it . There is a breeder here who shows threads of picking a single female from 240 plants and why and the same process through 2 , 3 and 4 generations of picking the best among hundreds. And to top it off, the prices are reasonable.

HaHa Joker, are you referring to Sannie? i've been following him closely and while i haven't read the thread you speak of, it sounds like him and his methods to me. I'm gonna give his gear a go as soon as i decide on what i want. i've heard wonderful things of his herijuana ibl.

you could be talking about Reef as well. always working with large populations across the globe. landraces, ibl's, elites, you name it.

 

[tokinblackguy]

hmmmm. i got mixed emotions bout this one. pictures if done properly should tell you what to look for , i mean the breeder is giving you the phenotype to look for. flowering times always differ because noone is gonna do it like the breeder of the strain did. i mean a brief description yes. taste, well not everyone is gonna agree i mean every pallet is different and what you pick up and don't pick up is all exprience. i mean for me if i want to know wha a strain really tastes like i'll cook it in with rice or something else very neutral. smoking it will give you different flavors sometimes i find. i like this debate though. i'd rather see what a strain looks like than read about it. i mean a little on it definetley but harvest size? come on, i've grown out "huge yielders" only to be disappointed while not so "huge yielders" were very promising. there are too many factors to consider and acuratley give detailed descriptions i feel. and as far as shady people putting up pics that are not true to what the bud is, well it's just as easy to lie about it in a write up. no? anyways thats my take on it.
negative 1

negative, i feel you man, i used to be like that, drooling over the pics and flashy names and what not. nowadays though, i'm just the opposite, less pics, more info. don't get me wrong, i don't need a book on a strain but i sure as hell need more than just "dank" and "fire" for something i'm shelling out 100+/- for.

i'm picky and i have a particular palette, used to test menu items for a few restaurants in my area matter of fact. reef used to give the greatest strain info on his works and it made all the difference in the world. it wasn't the most detailed but it covered the basics pretty. IMHO, when a breeder gives you this information, it let's you know that they are not just slapping some shit together. it means that they have grown out the results and gives you more of an idea of what to expect. for growers with limited room, time, or whatever, this is invaluable information. while it may not be written in stone, it's a pretty solid indicator. makes me feel better about the beans i bought and i don't feel like i have to pay to be a tester just so i can join the trend, never was a follower.

would i like to grow out some these "elite" beans, of course i would, no doubt about it. i just cant let myself buy any more beans that i know nothing about. i don't have to be the first anymore, i can wait for others to have 2 or 3 grows with the new stuff so i can see what's the real deal.

 

[Rootbound]

Subcool has a nice layout. RB

 

[astartes]

Well here's my take on things, and let me say first off that I don't mean to ruffle any feathers.

Yes, it would be amazing to know so much about a strain and I would love to see it. But fact is, as the amount of growers has exploded due to the internet and the accesability it affords, there has been a shift in what the public demands. The vast majority want the best, new , hottest strains out there. Makes sense to grow the best, if you're taking the risk in the first place, right?

Now, the seed business is simply that: a business operating under a free market economy. If there is a constant demand for the newest beans, using the current hot clone, that's what breeders will tend to do. Same with femm'ed seeds. I think that's just fine as I have access to many of the hot clones, but I like to go hunting crosses of those clone-onlys as well.

Now here's where it actually relates to the thread:) The constant drive for new beans means that many beans go to market untested or not fully flowered out. So you can make an extremely educated guess as to what to expect, but it's only a guess in many cases. Not making a blanket statement about breeders at all, rather expressing a trend I've noticed.

I love the guessing game, as all I need is a cut from a great pheno of a polyhybrid and I a happy camper. But I also love the access to IBL and time-tested strains in bean form. They're great for doing your own crossing.
It's a niche market to a degree nowadays, while it used to be the standard in the past. The reverse hapapened for untested genetics. There's a place for both still to a high degree, especially on the farm.

Bottom line, a lot of what we crave as far as tested material, simply isn't available for the latest and greatest crosses. It's the price we pay for the continuous demand for the latest clone onlys in crossed seed form, but a fair price imho. The advent of internet forums for us growers simply changed the market due to shear demand.

That's what happened in my view. Not saying it's good or bad, it just is. There will always be a place for both in my garden. It's simply pick your pleasure now, which is a good thing overall for many. You may just have to search through a bit more of the massive info floating around the net to make an informed choice.

Sorry for the ramble here. Hopefully I kept it mostly on point:) The perils of posting while baked:cool0010:

a.

 

[The Joker]

Yeah, TBG, I meant Sannie, but I don't want to be a shill since I am a mod over at his forum. Let people make up their own minds. I've got Madonna, Amnesia Haze x Cheese, Jackberry x Blue Kronic and Basic Beer to try. Scared of the herijuana.

I am also a fan of Reeferman, DJ Short and Shanti to name a few. I have been ripped off and I have wasted months of my life growing bunk. But I also have had many pleasant surprises.

The worst seeds were from the most hyped breeders on the internet who were chucking pollen with hyped clones/strains to feed the desires of inexperienced growers like I was at the time. This was back at Overgrow and was a learning lesson for me. When my grow sucked, i was attacked. Later when I left that site, I found many growers had the same experience, but were banned when they complained. Water under the bridge, but I've never been a sucker again.

I'm happy with what I have and now try new seeds for fun. I got a really nice Grapefruit pheno from Spice of Life BLue Satellite 2.2. Fun to grow. Crazy big yields.

It's not even the money , it's the waste of all the effort to grow from seed, find a keeper etc.

 

[diesel]

I agree joker, the dogy untested hot clone crosses are crap and its not them money cause we could just smoke it :P its growing them cutting them hoping to find a good mum the whole 3 months. Also for new guys they need a quality seed so they can focus on good feedin and environment... not worry about some bloody shitty genes producing wispy heache bud.