Hope all is good over your way brudah..... Didnt know you were running those Blue Dream x Ukhems......i think youre the first. Would love to see what they look like. You still have that Alien OG cut?

looking god NT . cant wait to get that panama back in my lungs:)!

monkeymun said:

Great thread NaturalTherapy, you've certainly got a green thumb!

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I appreciate the kind words

crom said:

I'd love to see some pictures if you find any! Keep any cuts? Which pheno was your favorite? What did you like and not like about them? Thanks for the feedback brotha! I'm running an AcoGold outside right now ;) She's in a 3G and she's about 12" lsted. We'll see! Out of the 2 phenos of Cheetos I have did they both end up being Cheese dominant phenos? Did you like them both? Were they similar? Just curious what you found.

Growin the AR and A91 organic soil yeah? Light feeds building up? These can be light to moderate feeders. If you get that chunky Chem D structure from the Aliendawg daddy you may be able to push that pheno more. The cherry carmax pheno you described sounds like a keeper to me! Was that the A91, or the AR? I'm assuming the small conical dense buds was the A91 as the mommy has those buds. It's all about what your looking for I guess. Hope you enjoyed your gear!

Cheers,
Crom

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Yeah I tried to keep most everything but I lost a few phenos to a root aphid infested clone tray. FUCKERS....
Although I do have progeny of several of them, I have to take some time and go through every plant in veg to see what I've got. Hard to say what my favorite is without having smoked them yet. Definitely moderate feeders, been pushing around 1200-1400 for their heaviest doses.

Honestly I don't remember which Cheeto cuts I sent you. One produces a large terminal cola with tons of side branching, but many of the others produced branches for days that have little flower cluster everywhere

Hopefully that 3 gallons is enough for the Acapulco, she's a long running lady... I got around a pound from a 20 gallon that wasn't trained in any way, and consistenly get 5-7 zips from 7 gallons indoors? I imagine with some synthetics one could pull out another ounce or two.

cannarado said:

Hope all is good over your way brudah..... Didnt know you were running those Blue Dream x Ukhems......i think youre the first. Would love to see what they look like. You still have that Alien OG cut?

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Ah that was one I was forgetting. I have an Alien OG about to get taken down in the next couple weeks, also. Very light colored lime green nuggitos awash in resin, dark green leaves... I didn't take the time to train her very well early on, so the yield is pretty minimal but the look of the flowers give me a feeling that that plant won't be going anywhere but my jars for a nice long cure.

deep buddy said:

looking god NT . cant wait to get that panama back in my lungs:)!

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And you will sir! I'm gonna take some clones to share in the next couple days, too. Sharing is caring haha

Oh I'm sure she would be much larger in a larger pot lol This is a taster for me to see if I'm into her, or not. 3 gallon fabric pots have been pretty good to me for manageable/movable plants outdoors. I was pullin a pound per plant in 10 gallon fabric pots outdoors easy. If she makes the cut she will be grown larger next time! As for the Cheetos cuts, I have been vegging them so I can take cuts for a run. I'm just curious how that cross turned out. What seems dominant the Cheese? Interesting cross the Cheetos Kush is! Thanks for the update bro!

Crom

crom said:

Oh I'm sure she would be much larger in a larger pot lol This is a taster for me to see if I'm into her, or not. 3 gallon fabric pots have been pretty good to me for manageable/movable plants outdoors. I was pullin a pound per plant in 10 gallon fabric pots outdoors easy. If she makes the cut she will be grown larger next time! As for the Cheetos cuts, I have been vegging them so I can take cuts for a run. I'm just curious how that cross turned out. What seems dominant the Cheese? Interesting cross the Cheetos Kush is! Thanks for the update bro!

Crom

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My main concern was that she'd overgrow her container in terms of root growth, since she's such a long finisher.. Did I get the Panama to you as well? I'd love to see what that one does under the Cali sun. Oh and the cherry/ carmex/ caramel girl was a Reunion.
Pretty much the cheese dominates the Cheetos I've worked out. One has more of a bubba-type growth/branching structure, but still reeks of cheese. In the turpene department, if it smells at all like the bubba, it is only the back end smells, nothing initially but cheese. Mind you, I've never grown cheese- just smoked it, so some of these musky earthy soil scents I'm getting could be from the bubba, or just tones of the cheese that fade with the cure. Not sure really.

I didn't get the Panama yet, no; or the Willie. It didn't root yet, or something.

I'm putting the Aco out now cause it's flowering outside right now. I'm not going for huge sativa tree just yet. Just a sample of what she's all about. We'll see how she does! Is she a yielder? What's the stretch like? Need support?

Cherry carmex caramel sounds yummy! I love hearing everyones scent/flavor descriptions! I think like "yeah yeah I can see that..." lol

The bubba does have earthy soil kush smells to it. I wouldn't mind a Cheese with Bubba structure. Golfball cheese balls lol Hence the name Cheetos Kush lol Anyway yeah I'm into the Cheese flavors I have had. I particularly liked Blue Cheese. Great flavor combo!

That's enough for now lol

Crom

The willie phenos I have are not up to snuff, so I'll be going through the rest of the seeds I have of those to find a comparable pheno to what I 've seen in the past.

Shit I thought Panama made it out to you... Next time...

AG is a definite producer. Stretch at least x3... Stake, ties (or trellis) will be absolutely necessary

Awesome NT! Thanks for the info on the stretch and support needs! If she triples in height she'll be around 4' when done; perfect! I don't need a pound off her, at first! lmao Yeah I hear ya on that Willie! Nah you wanted to do the PR, but that's when the root aphids kicked in I think. Whenever brotha!

Crom

The last few months have been disastrous.

I took over a friends commercial space to save his sinking ship... That was in January. Around March I told them their problems were largely environmental and the place had to be re-worked dramatically or there was no way to sustain... Nothing happened... May, same warning addressed- this time with notions of dire necessity ... Nothing happened. So they managed to turn a 3-5 thousand dollar problem into a 30k problem due to their inactivity- disrespecting thousands of dollars of my unique genetics in the process, on top of all the dough they owe...

Now the place is overrun with bugs and mildew because no one wanted to replace the fans that were starting to die out. This is the first time I've ever experienced such dramatically unhealthy plants... Fuck I'm so sad.

Yeah, I'm irked about the dough, but my heart hurts upon seeing the damage to plants I've kept alive for so many years, I know I'll end up throwing away about 90% of my cultivars because the principles treat their 250k investment like any other job. I know most cannabis growers don't love their plants, but I'm a big softie and I fucking do... To me losing plants I've known and grown for years is like losing a friend, especially when I have patients who have become accustomed to those genes and the effects they promise.

So today I go to a meeting with them, and the dipshit dispensary owners who we are contracted with to tell them that they fucked themselves out of their savings with inactivity and indifference, and fucked me out of thousands in medical varieties, special old cultivars, and of course, the money I'm owed.

Swing your little axe, or be an oak tree if you can... Either way, adapt to circumstance or play your final hand...

Back to my secluded little world...

Booooo

NaturalTherapy said:

The last few months have been disastrous.

I took over a friends commercial space to save his sinking ship... That was in January.

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Can you go into some detail about the environmental problems with this room and what the results were please.
I can imagine that a large room could go down quickly if things start to screw up.
It's not often we get to hear about crop failures other than nooby troubles in the infirmary.

I feel you on loosing trusted cultivars.
Very sad.

Dunge said:

Can you go into some detail about the environmental problems with this room and what the results were please.
I can imagine that a large room could go down quickly if things start to screw up.
It's not often we get to hear about crop failures other than nooby troubles in the infirmary.

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I'll add detail later, but it was basically nooby error coupled with not listening to the person they hired to make it work. Two years of fumbling experimentation while paying 10k a month to fund it all led to the sinking ship. I came in and made the initial changes and told them what they needed, but nothing ever went past 75% in either completion of necessary modifications or general effort... Which, in a 1200 sq ft bloom room with no circulation, is a losing battle... No, it's a lost cause.


They grew for four years before meeting me, but followed me around like puppies in the warehouse, like it was their first fucking show. Great guys, but no motivation. In most other jobs when you slack off someone else can pick up the slack, but in this setup, with 400+ plants- everything has to be done right by every person, and I can't ask them to spray a plant and expect them to do it right.... And it's only the tip of the iceberg...

Great guys, but no motivation

It's crazy that peeps have the money/opportunity to do it big like that, and not only do they drop the ball, they pop the damn thing too! That truly sucks to have to watch go down hill in a hurry! My condolences to your loss homie!

Keep that head up,
Crom

When I came into the warehouse They were fighting spider mites and Root aphids. The 15k flower room was being fed plants from a veg room where 100+ plants were sitting in 1g pots of coco under a few t5 racks. There was one fan for circulation in the room, no extraction. There was no room to keep mothers.

First, I tripled their veg space and switched them to soil... Well first I watched them do their thing for a few days. Their flowering plants were weak and spindly, they were getting at most 1.5 ounces out of 5g coco pots being (overly) top fed with Scott's Peters general blue and white powder salts. Plants were being way over fed with little attention to micronutrient needs. Nothing natural or organic, no flushes...not a pretty sight. The first bit of advice I gave them was to start a two week flush, the second bit of advice I gave them was to stop packing their pots so tightly with coco. They literally packed the container, then compressed the coco down and added more, compressed more and added a clone- hence spindly plants with bullshit root systems unable to grow in the densely packed coco.

It was at this point they asked for some assistance after they saw the dramatic results those of two suggestions- which in my mind were quite obvious. Despite their shortcomings in terms of cannabis cultivation, the principles are great guys in terms of being human, so I was happy to offer my experience.

The next step was to upping the veg space and eradicating bugs. I suggested Capulators beneficial program to assist with all our problems, sometime around the first week of March, and they never bought it. I tripled the usable area in their current veg room with some clever construction, then reallocated a room to be used for veg and filled it with 3k in high intensity lights. Which triggered the first real problem...

The electricity was wired all wrong... The building had three phase, but one phase was untapped, while the others were working overtime to the point of frying major fuses and leaving a trail of blacked out junction boxes along the way.

The real problems of this building are as follows:
-insufficient ventilation: each row of hoods is connected, 3k in each row, and two inline fans pushing/pulling air for each row. But only one inline fan extracting air from the environment, so no fresh air.

-insufficient circulation. I think there were five fans around the room which needed at least twice that.

-insufficient/dangerous electrical wiring: there were two grows operating wholly independent of one another, the second being in the basement of the warehouse which drew as much power as the main grow, completely nigger rigged to the point where every control box was hot to the touch... Basically the whole building needed to be re-wired. NEEDED it, to the extent that my electrician called me for several days after his inspection badgering them because he was losing sleep due to his fear of the instability of the building- a problem which remains months later...

The second grow had every problem the main grow had as concerns pests, and they were doing nothing to stop them. I gave them a program to run to eradicate or at least keep them in check, but by then the problems were so bad it barely mattered. In the main grow room the plants were so weak because of the way they were planted, the insufficient root system that was being attacked by root aphids had no way to to protect the plant. So I did pyrethrum drenches and aerosol in the veg, and it killed about 80 of their weakened plants, creating a month long lull in production.
We got past the lull, and at this point I was funding the op.

My money was used to get the environments as right as I could afford, but it was clear then that the whole thing was not sustainable, so I gave them some options to consider before another bad situation arose and another lull came up that could potentially ruin the company for good.

I gave them three options, two of which involved upwards of 20grand in improvements and redesigns that would take months because of the current legal snafu the MMED tied us all into, and I gave them one option that could potentially make them successful for the first time in their existence, and that involved merging the two grows, the smaller grow in the basement being the veg side of the grow, while the bigger space could be all flower.

As the most experienced grower there, it was my contention that that was the only option to consider that didn't cost 20-30 grand which no one involved had to spend.

That option was heralded as the way to save their business, but never seriously considered beyond that. The basement crowd, three people who collectively owned and operated a little dispensary, kept on doing the same thing they had done which led to their problem, which is grow absolutely awful pot, and not listen to one damn suggestion I had.

In three years they had never been successful, I told them how to make it work and they said they were too scared to try it. Basically they are idiots with no clue of how to cultivate even substandard weed, much less medical grade cannabis- the first thing they ever asked me to do was to help them identify what they thought could be male flowers. That plant was 6 weeks into bloom, covered in as many male flowers as there were female. How they are even there confounds me...

So months go by without any of the changes I proposed happening In any way, and the warehouse quickly devolved into the same situation their environmental problems will always cause, only this time somewhere along the line a plant with PM is introduced. Within weeks the flower room had spots of mildew. That was around the second week of May, at which point I finally broke down and bought several kilos of Caps program to help with the root aphids that were once again establishing strong colonies, but it was too late at that point- the PM had begun to overtake the place, and mites began to web up plants in the flower room and we were trashing more than we could harvest. In all my time I'd never seen spider mites web a plant, or any bug for that matter become a problem... Just a matter of time of course, but god damn, that warehouse could have been saved three weeks ago... now, there are 4 salvageable plants in a flower room of 115 large plants.

I've never met more inept growers or business operators...Three bankruptcies later, and still these fucks are too dumb to make smart business decisions, too stubborn to communicate, too insecure to ask for help and too fucking stupid to get out of the way and let someone with knowledge make it work.
When it comes to the owners/operators of Tiberline Herbal Clinic, The only thing that destroyed this entire operation, was ego....they flat out admitted they didn't want to do what they could to make it work, despite the 250k investment they've made over the last several years, because they didn't like one of the principles.

It is truly amazing.

So now, I go back to my dungeon, to once again redo my room since I brought the warehouse mildew home on me before I knew we had it- to destroy a collection of plants that's taken me years to acquire- to start seeds and begin the work of finding plants worth growing. To never again set foot in Timberline Herbal Clinic and see the shit I tried to help....
And the funny thing is, I already know that in 25 days when they have to shut down their dispensary for good, they're not going to look back and say "man, July 15th was the turning point, we really should have listened to what old NaturalTherapy was saying"... They'll say "fuck NT, he said he would help us but he didn't".

NT: I have used Serenade against PM.
It is a bacillus spray that smells a bit funk, but seems to work.

What a story. Good on you for bothering to recall for us the story of a sinking ship.
I remember a Star Trek episode that was much the same story. "Our ship is broken, and you are so smart."

Press on brother.

Dunge said:

NT: I have used Serenade against PM.
It is a bacillus spray that smells a bit funk, but seems to work..

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A friend ordered some Eagle 20 for me, and I'll try to use that to keep at least two of my cultivars alive. Mostly, I'm shopping for new seeds & cracking some reserves. Shit is fucked, I am depressed.

WOW brother that is some sad shit there...those people deserve to go under... but for u its even worse to lose ur time and money for fucking idoits like that... id like to tie them to the back of my jeep and dragg them around some back wood trails... that eagle 20 is the best stuff ever i got some PM once...never again have had one problem...amazing stuff... if u were in the area i would give u the rest of my eagle 2o and gifted you some of my cuttings and gear...

NaturalTherapy said:

Panama



Thanks St3ve
-----

Here is the crazy Panama I was talking about

#1
View attachment 188271

#2
View attachment 188273
View attachment 188272

Wild!!

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cool man all your stuff looks lovely! 1 of my super silver haze was doin that buddin fromthe leaf lol mad but i thought maybe it was what i fed em last run, some A N hammerhead n overdrive do u use either of them bro?

These people are reactionary fools. No thinking, just Impulsive behavior.

The dispensary owners just changed the locks and security codes, preventing us from entering the warehouse to remove our equipment and personal belongings. Nothing contractually has changed in any way, but they are now saying our plants and equipment are their property. Plants sure, they are tied to patients, and must be destroyed if they're not going to be cultivated in that warehouse, but why they think they are somehow entitled to the equipment is outside my realm of perceiving the legality of it all. I guess my lawyer will know better

The other night, while breaking down lights and venting, they said "you can't just leave us hanging", and it revealed the extent to which they had not thought out any possible consequences for any of their actions or lack thereof.

Why fight for yourself when you can hire a lawyer to lose for you? Theses people can't be helped, and they're dragging me into it.... Black hole motherfuckers

critical said:

cool man all your stuff looks lovely! 1 of my super silver haze was doin that buddin fromthe leaf lol mad but i thought maybe it was what i fed em last run, some A N hammerhead n overdrive do u use either of them bro?

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Thanks. No, I'm strictly organic. It seems to me it's stress related, but could just be an adaptation strategy for the plant