What I want as a consumer.

[Aqua Man]

Where I grew up, there weren't even dial phones..you lifted the receiver and an Operator asked what number you wanted....:D

Sorta like this..LOL

Party line anyone? Lmao not in my time did I have one but I have used them. My best friends grandmother still had one when I was in my early teens.

I was the cool kid that dialed a rotary phone with the buttons the reciever sat on

 

[oldskol4evr]

Party line anyone? Lmao not in my time did I have one but I have used them. My best friends grandmother still had one when I was in my early teens.

I was the cool kid that dialed a rotary phone with the buttons the reciever sat on

funny as hell,tell you what though there wasnt a life threating need to answer a phone back then,hahahhh we use to let that bitch ring until someone would break hahah,remember picking up coke bottles?i worked my ass off for a pack of cig's them days,even went to work for coco cola as a swamper,i threw a many of cases of bottles on and over that truck,we carried brooms with us hahahh all the free coke i could drink lmao

 

[oldskol4evr]

how about hip huggers and tube tops,ohhh ya them days need to come back lmao

 

[Buzzer777]

how about hip huggers and tube tops,ohhh ya them days need to come back lmao

This! LOL

 

[oldskol4evr]

This! LOL

yes sir,showed enough for you to think and wont,unlike the yoga fad,damn they look nice but no thrill for me i cant even imagine nothing,one that get me is the big girls and celulite i think that what all them bumps and dents are called hahahahh,what gets me is more huge women wear them and tight ass shirt and that big ole belly hanging down begging to release me hahahh

 

[oldskol4evr]

This! LOL

she has done that on more than a hola hoop hahahah

 

[Animal Chin]

I'm not an LED guy or HID guy...I'm a dank guy. So I go where the quest for sweet danky green hippie lettuce takes me. Just so happens that in this point in time that quest has me using LED & CMH.
Personally I dont give a shit about science, charts, graphs, PHD's or whatever other metric one uses to sell a light.
Can it grow dank? is my only concern. Seen a lot of lights impress with PAR meter readings and then fall way short growing dank.
With that though...here's some thoughts from my experiences.

There is an ocean wide gap between what works and what performs at a high level. Floros work, but HPS performs is an example.
People often mistake works for performance and when a person in enamored over something that works, that same thing can disappoint somebody who is looking for performance.

Pricing...yeah it sucks. Grow a plant that's worth $400oz and people will sell a light, or anything marijuana related, based on that.
It's like they say "Hey, you just harvested $10,000 worth of weed. Surely you can invest $1000 in a light?" Yeah they are so wrong about that.
That being said though, for a great LED that grows the dank, it aint gonna come cheap. So if you think you can buy a Cadillac for the price of a Kia it's not gonna happen.

Sellers, builders, marketers, pitch men etc....What can I say I dont trust anybody to know exactly what I want so I go back to Does it grow dank? Show me dank and I'll show you interest.

COB & QB....seen the good and the bad with those. Some are remarkably productive and efficient and some perform like floros.
Chinese knock off...Hit and miss and personally I avoid them.
American made is usually my choice only because two of the more renowned companies are in my city and I know first hand the R&D that's gone into their lights. Another company I trust is on the West Coast and their lights are legit but expensive.

Warranties matter. LED I use come with 5 year warranties and some are almost 10 years old and still work like new. If a light only has a one year or less warranty, to me that says buyer beware.

 

[Ace9137]

I'm not an LED guy or HID guy...I'm a dank guy. So I go where the quest for sweet danky green hippie lettuce takes me. Just so happens that in this point in time that quest has me using LED & CMH.
Personally I dont give a shit about science, charts, graphs, PHD's or whatever other metric one uses to sell a light.
Can it grow dank? is my only concern. Seen a lot of lights impress with PAR meter readings and then fall way short growing dank.
With that though...here's some thoughts from my experiences.

There is an ocean wide gap between what works and what performs at a high level. Floros work, but HPS performs is an example.
People often mistake works for performance and when a person in enamored over something that works, that same thing can disappoint somebody who is looking for performance.

Pricing...yeah it sucks. Grow a plant that's worth $400oz and people will sell a light, or anything marijuana related, based on that.
It's like they say "Hey, you just harvested $10,000 worth of weed. Surely you can invest $1000 in a light?" Yeah they are so wrong about that.
That being said though, for a great LED that grows the dank, it aint gonna come cheap. So if you think you can buy a Cadillac for the price of a Kia it's not gonna happen.

Sellers, builders, marketers, pitch men etc....What can I say I dont trust anybody to know exactly what I want so I go back to Does it grow dank? Show me dank and I'll show you interest.

COB & QB....seen the good and the bad with those. Some are remarkably productive and efficient and some perform like floros.
Chinese knock off...Hit and miss and personally I avoid them.
American made is usually my choice only because two of the more renowned companies are in my city and I know first hand the R&D that's gone into their lights. Another company I trust is on the West Coast and their lights are legit but expensive.

Warranties matter. LED I use come with 5 year warranties and some are almost 10 years old and still work like new. If a light only has a one year or less warranty, to me that says buyer beware.

Probably the biggest mistake I and every other consumer makes is the warranty, and yes it is so true that if it is less than a two year warranty it is crap. I am not expecting a cadillac at the price of a kia, of course, realistically the 300% mark up in any market has me a little disappointed in our market, or should I say the price gouging market, horrible. It actually strikes me though about what we grow, I never, ever think about price per ounce on my grows, mainly I don't sell, not going to either, more of us "micro" growers out there. Medical or personal, I grow to save money, now and in the long run. Funny though when you bring these things up to people who sell lights and they ignore these thoughts, could you imagine the wealth that is there, everyone thinks dispensaries are going to dominate, when the "micro" grower was there at the beginning. Dank I understand, rarely do you find those selling the lights to true connoisseurs, to be connoisseurs themselves.

 

[Animal Chin]

Probably the biggest mistake I and every other consumer makes is the warranty, and yes it is so true that if it is less than a two year warranty it is crap. I am not expecting a cadillac at the price of a kia, of course, realistically the 300% mark up in any market has me a little disappointed in our market, or should I say the price gouging market, horrible. It actually strikes me though about what we grow, I never, ever think about price per ounce on my grows, mainly I don't sell, not going to either, more of us "micro" growers out there. Medical or personal, I grow to save money, now and in the long run. Funny though when you bring these things up to people who sell lights and they ignore these thoughts, could you imagine the wealth that is there, everyone thinks dispensaries are going to dominate, when the "micro" grower was there at the beginning. Dank I understand, rarely do you find those selling the lights to true connoisseurs, to be connoisseurs themselves.

I agree for the personal grower which I am as well, there really is not much distinction between personal and commercial as it relates to equipment for indoor growing.
It's like there's an automatic assumption that if you're growing a cash crop you must be growing for cash. Very little attention is payed towards people who grow to save money.
Some light companies do try to appeal to some with hobbyist level lights but it's more of a small niche market. Their main demographic are whales...Guys who drop $10k at a hydroshop and load a uhaul full of 1000 watt lights and buy nutes by the barrel, not bottles. And that's actually where the discounts are at. The smaller you buy, the more you pay seems routine.

 

[Aqua Man]

Let's be honest enough of any light can grow dank weed. I'm Canadian but I support Canadian and North American made stuff and first and foremost I have no problem paying the extra for that. In my line of work you see everyday the impact it has but I also respect others may not see this aspect.

Typically any North American product provides better warranty and quality bit you pay for it. Not always true but most of the time.

For the hobbiest everyone's views of what is important are different and I respect that too. What I think needs to stop is the bashing we all do to one another and just have real discussions keeping in mind what's important to you may not be to others.

 

[Rootbound]

Let's be honest enough of any light can grow dank weed. I'm Canadian but I support Canadian and North American made stuff and first and foremost I have no problem paying the extra for that. In my line of work you see everyday the impact it has but I also respect others may not see this aspect.

Typically any North American product provides better warranty and quality bit you pay for it. Not always true but most of the time.

For the hobbiest everyone's views of what is important are different and I respect that too. What I think needs to stop is the bashing we all do to one another and just have real discussions keeping in mind what's important to you may not be to others.

Very well said!!

 

[Ace9137]

Let's be honest enough of any light can grow dank weed. I'm Canadian but I support Canadian and North American made stuff and first and foremost I have no problem paying the extra for that. In my line of work you see everyday the impact it has but I also respect others may not see this aspect.

Typically any North American product provides better warranty and quality bit you pay for it. Not always true but most of the time.

For the hobbiest everyone's views of what is important are different and I respect that too. What I think needs to stop is the bashing we all do to one another and just have real discussions keeping in mind what's important to you may not be to others.

I am not bashing the tech, in fact I know I have said it is has a bit of potential. The market is young and rough and the claims get out of hand. I remember when the nintendo first came out, the price was insane, then it dropped, eventually everyone has a console, a computer, even to the point that our cell phones are computers. the gaming market has become bland and an interactive pay per view. The video game market was a niche too, now it is common place. My point is that the home grower is becoming more and more common, it will inflate even.

 

[Fangthane]

chinese manufactures do it for a third of the cost of HLG. But not top bin..medium at best.

I wasn't aware that Kingbrite and the other knock-offs used diodes that were inferior in any way to those on actual HLG boards. Just went and read the ad I'd saved more closely, and to their credit they make no claims of using top-bin diodes. If what you're saying is definitely true, and it's at most a matter of 15% efficiency difference, I'm still going to take the Kingbrite boards all day long.

As someone who's painfully aware of how horrible I am at this, I don't have any delusions of pounding out my 1 meter tent any time in the near future. I'm on a super-tight budget and just growing for my own personal use, so whatever I manage to produce leaves me better off than I'd started. To save 60% off sticker price, I'll be ecstatic with running lighting that's only 85% badass. With my current lighting having a badass rating of about 7%, I can happily live with 85.

 

[Ace9137]

And all that being said I just bought a kingbrite chinese knockoff 480 watt qb that arrives in 7 days
And a 315 watt ceramic metal halide that arrived today.

I dont think HID is ancient or getting phased out my dude. CERAMIC METAL HALIDE or LIGHT EMMITTING CERAMIC isnt new HID tech but is starting to be widely adopted by growers.
QB or cob will never fully faze out HID. The ability to gave radiant heat, just from a grow light and no heaters in certain parts of the works is a big bonus..and CMH can outperform HPS with half the wattage or at least match it which is a huge advantage.


I'm doing hps. Cmh. Quantums. Cobs and blurple. Im trying everyone at once before I decide what works best for me and what I'm going to stick with

I heard double ended and CMH have really great reception, I haven't used them myself. Who knows, CMH may be the next fad or at least competition.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I heard double ended and CMH have really great reception, I haven't used them myself. Who knows, CMH may be the next fad or at least competition.

The hype with cmh is just as strong as led. In my testing a hortilux 600w super hps consistantly beat a phillips 315 3100k in yield by 30% or more.

And although i thought the cmh weed looked frostier no one could pick which was which in blind smoke testing with any certainty.

It barely covers an open 3x3 area. Maybe 2.5x2.5 feet for priper flowering.

And it runs as hot open as the 600 does in a glass enclosed air cooled fixture. Well it kept the canopy 1 degree farenheight cooler.

 

[az2000]

The hype with cmh is just as strong as led. In my testing a hortilux 600w super hps consistantly beat a phillips 315 3100k in yield by 30% or more.

And although i thought the cmh weed looked frostier no one could pick which was which in blind smoke testing with any certainty.

It barely covers an open 3x3 area. Maybe 2.5x2.5 feet for priper flowering.

And it runs as hot open as the 600 does in a glass enclosed air cooled fixture. Well it kept the canopy 1 degree farenheight cooler.

Spacewise, what are you comparing the 315w CMH to? You mentioned two CMH footprints (9sq ft @ 35w/sq ft & 6.25sq ft @ 50.4w/sq ft). But, you didn't mention the footprint of the 600w HPS, delivering 30% more yield. (And, which of the CMH footprints that's being compared to.).

 

[MIMedGrower]

Spacewise, what are you comparing the 315w CMH to? You mentioned two CMH footprints (9sq ft @ 35w/sq ft & 6.25sq ft @ 50.4w/sq ft). But, you didn't mention the footprint of the 600w HPS, delivering 30% more yield. (And, which of the CMH footprints that's being compared to.).

Fair enough. I try to keep the 600 hps footprint at 3.5’ x 3.5’. I admit some plants go closer to 4 feet out by peak bloom.

I started the first run with the 315 at the same 3.5’x3.5’ but by the third run with the same clones i had reduced this to under 3 feet as it just doesnt have enough light to cover.

Also lower buds under the 315 with the bushes i grow suffered. Where the 600 hps grew dense good sized buds further down into the canopy.

All my plants are kept to 30” over the pots max for best light penetration.

I do believe multiple 315’s will work much better. I would want 2 in a 3x6 space max.


Also. Best results were when i overlapped the lamps footprint. I would set up the next space of 4x8 with 2 600’s and a 315 jammed in the middle.


Furthermore. I would say that the 600 hps can flower down 1.5 -2 feet properly and the 315 only about 1’ to 1-5’ deep and thats pushing it.


They always say “more roots more fruits.”I would like to add “more power more flower.”

 

[az2000]

I do believe multiple 315’s will work much better. I would want 2 in a 3x6 space max.

I'm confused. That's what 315s are made for (3x3) at 35w/sq ft. You're comparing that to HPS at 49w/sq ft?

I agree with you that having two (for more cross/lighting where their footprints meet) could improve things greatly. I think that helps *any* lighting, and can be accomplished with sidelighting around the perimeter of the tent (cheaply, with household LED lightbulbs with their globe removed. You need to power those through a GFCI outlet though because without the globe there are electrical surfaces exposed. It's not as simple as I might make it sound.).

Your 600w HPS might not benefit as much from that cross lighting because the intensity reflects better back from the walls of the tent? Or, perhaps it has a more even footprint than the CMH.

I would like to add “more power more flower.”

There are LED users (Amazon variety) who say the same thing. They run 80w/sq ft. (I'm waiting for someone to run 1gigawatt through a steel bar to illuminate a space.).

Doesn't light quality play a more important role? Fewer watts for the same ppfd?

I've never used HPS. I can't compare. But, googling produces many results saying CMH is more PAR efficient. Aside from topics of reflector performance, it should do better watt for watt. You said HPS runs the same temperature. But, that's with an aircooled hood, I take it? (You mentioned class front). CMH has glass-front, air-cooled hoods too. The heat of CMH doesn't seem that significant to me to incur the light-absorption of the glass.

 

[W8ing4Buds]

Yoooo. The original post was kinda fun.

Firstly as you said that HPS will eventually go extinct.... NO they won't.
Because no matter how much you pay for your LED,COD or anything else will never have the penetration power of HPS.
Don't get me wrong i am rocking all LED in my tents but it's the decision of the circumstances and not my wish.

You where going on about honesty in sales... How high are you? There has never been a salesman that will tell you the truth. You just need to live and lurn.

Longevity.... Well the LEDs will last long even if you buy cheap ones... Well the cheap ones will probably last longer because they are not pushed to their limits.... But anyway they will last longer then HPS but the HPS are cheaper to replace.... So anyway you look at it your fine.

And the last thing you wrote about was why you are smoking weed. Who cares? You like it... It's your thing... Do it.
Even if it's just the way your balls feel after you smoke lt's ok. Smoke on!!

I wish you all the best.

 

[az2000]

You where going on about honesty in sales... There has never been a salesman that will tell you the truth. You just need to live and lurn.

That reasoning also applies to used-car lots and timeshare presentations too. Some sales tactics look predatory, and have a reputation that stands out from the rest of the "willing buyer/seller" interactions which are subject to "buyer beware."

IMO, the LED grow light market stands out with similar distinction (compared to traditional lighting: HID, flourescent). I don't think the flim-flammy nature of the market can be dismissed as "all sales involve some hype and predation." There's "some" and then there's total loss of shame.