What The @&$"** Problems

[jumpincactus]

Details:

Bought from random dood.
Came in Fox Farm (not ocean forest the other popular one)
Added a little mushroom and wood compost to fill in the tops.
Fed with 3ml gallon of CalMag
Don't overwater, nor under.
Were indoors using city water, now outdoors with WELL WATER(I have never used well before)
PH 6.4-6.8
Happening on only two plants
Consider myself a pretty legit INDOOR grower (when I lived arcttic style, now it's Cali sunshine style)

Am not used to the bugs and shit down south, compared to the great white north.

Black Lime Reserve,

Note** have also tried one 0.6ml per gallon of "Rhino Pee"...beneficial microbes or something given out for free by local grow store

How is the total alkalinity of your well water? Hard water/calcium carbonates/lime can create all sorts of issues with your plants. You should get your well water tested to see what your dkh levels are.

Check this article,

Did you know that feed water with high alkalinity will substantially raise the medium Ph in the rhizopshere no matter what the Ph of the input water is???

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding over ph and alkalinity. I seem to remember posting on this a while back but this article seems a tad more informative and easier to understand.

I would think this info to be more useful to those of us that rely on groundwater aquifers or well water supplies that dont get tested or get treated to adjust total alkalinity.

Water Quality: pH and Alkalinity

Recently, some growers have expressed concern about the "high pH" of their irrigation water and its potential adverse effects on plants. The purpose of this article is to allay some of these concerns by pointing out the difference between "high pH" and "high alkalinity".

Alkalinity and pH are two important factors in determining the suitability of water for irrigating plants. pH is a measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions (H+) in water or other liquids. In general, water for irrigation should have a pH b etween 5.0 and 7.0. Water with pH below 7.0 is termed "acidic" and water with pH above 7.0 is termed "basic"; pH 7.0 is "neutral". Sometimes the term "alkaline" is used instead of "basic" and often "alkaline" is confused with "alkalinity". Alkalinity is a measure of the water's ability to neutralize acidity. An alkalinity test measures the level of bicarbonates, carbonates, and hydroxides in water and test results are generally expressed as "ppm of calcium carbonate (CaCO3)". The desirable range f or irrigation water is 0 to 100 ppm calcium carbonate. Levels between 30 and 60 ppm are considered optimum for most plants.

Irrigation water tests should always include both pH and alkalinity tests. A pH test by itself is not an indication of alkalinity. Water with high alkalinity (i.e., high levels of bicarbonates or carbonates) always has a pH value ÷7 or above, but water with high pH doesn't always have high alkalinity. This is important because high alkalinity exerts the most significant effects on growing medium fertility and plant nutrition.

High pH and High Alkalinity Effects on Plant Nutrition
Potential adverse effects. In most cases irrigating with water having a "high pH" ( 7) causes no problems as long as the alkalinity is low. This water will probably have little effect on growing medium pH because it has little ability to neutralize acidity. This situation is typical for many growers using municipal water in Massachusetts, including water originating from the Quabbin Reservoir.

Of greater concern is the case where water having both high pH and high alkalinity is used for irrigation. In Massachusetts this situation is most common in Berkshire county. One result is that the pH of the growing medium may increase significantly with time. This increase may be so large that normal lime rates must be reduced by as much as 50%. In effect the water acts as a dilute solution of limestone! The problem is most serious when plants are grown in small containers because small volum es of soil are poorly buffered to pH change. Therefore, the combination of high pH and high alkalinity is of particular concern in plug seedling trays. Trace element deficiencies and imbalances of calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) can result from irrigating with high alkalinity water.

It is much more difficult to predict the effects of irrigating outdoor flower crops, gardens, and landscape plants with water having high pH and high alkalinity. On the one hand, in some parts of the United States, long-term irrigation of crops with water high in bicarbonates and carbonates has led to yield-limiting trace element deficiencies which must be corrected with special fertilizers. On the other hand, in New England, several factors probably act together to partially offset the effects of high alkalinity water. First, rainfall levels are relatively high and historically this has caused Ca and Mg ions to leach from the soil. These are replaced with H+ and the result is acidic soil. Second, this acidification may be helped along by the rather acidic rainfall common in this region in more recent times. Third, acid-forming fertilizers also help counteract high pH and alkalinity.

Potential beneficial effects. For some greenhouse operators, water with moderate levels of alkalinity (30-60 ppm) can be an important source of Ca and Mg. With the exception of Peter's EXCEL and a few other fertilizers, most water soluble fertil izers do not supply Ca and Mg. Also, the Ca and Mg from limestone may be inadequate for some plants. Moderately alkaline water could be beneficial as a source of extra Ca and Mg for crops prone to Ca and Mg deficiencies (e.g., poinsettia).

Other Effects of High pH and High Alkalinity
In addition to nutritional disorders of plants, water with high alkalinity can cause other problems. Bicarbonates and carbonates can clog the nozzles of pesticide sprayers and drip tube irrigation systems with obvious effects. The activity of some pesticides, floral preservatives, and growth regulators is markedly reduced by high alkalinity. When some pesticides are mixed with water they must acidify the solution to be completely effective. Additional acidifier may be needed to neutralize all of the alkalinity. To determine if a chemical is affected by high alkalinity, carefully review the product's label. Unfortunately this potentially important information is not always printed on the label, so considerable extra effort may be necessary to find the inf ormation. A call to the manufacturer will probably be needed for most chemicals.

Acidification of High Alkalinity Water
Many greenhouse operators inject acid (e.g., phosphoric, nitric, or sulfuric acid) into water with problematic high levels of alkalinity. Acidification of water having high pH but low alkalinity is rarely necessary. The use of acid injection sh ould be considered very carefully for several reasons. First, it is an extra step in production which will require additional materials and equipment. Second, acids are dangerous to handle and may damage some injectors and piping systems. Third, phosphoric or nitric acid are sources of P and NO3, so the regular fertilizer program may need to be modified to take into account the addition of these nutrients. This would depend on how much acid must be used to neutralize the alkalinity and reduce pH. Fourth, sometimes acid injection causes the solubilization of normally precipitated (unavailable) forms of trace elements resulting in levels toxic to plants.

The amount of acid required to reach the desired pH (i.e., neutralize alkalinity) is determined by laboratory titration of a water sample with the appropriate acid or by a calculation procedure. Some "fine-tuning" may be needed later when actual inject ion is started. Acid is always injected prior to the addition of fertilizer or other chemicals.

Prepared by Douglas Cox
Plant and Soil Sciences
University of Massachusetts

https://ag.umass.edu/fact-sheets/water-quality-ph-alkalinity

Heres a second link for another look http://www.greenhousegrower.com/pro...ant-nutrition-irrigation-water-alkalinity-ph/

" If your going to kick authority in the teeth, you might as well use both feet"
Keith Richards

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...ater-with-high-alkalinity.77509/#post-1569526

 

[petraus]

How is the total alkalinity of your well water? Hard water/calcium carbonates/lime can create all sorts of issues with your plants. You should get your well water tested to see what your dkh levels are.

Check this article,

Did you know that feed water with high alkalinity will substantially raise the medium Ph in the rhizopshere no matter what the Ph of the input water is???

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding over ph and alkalinity. I seem to remember posting on this a while back but this article seems a tad more informative and easier to understand.

I would think this info to be more useful to those of us that rely on groundwater aquifers or well water supplies that dont get tested or get treated to adjust total alkalinity.

Water Quality: pH and Alkalinity

Recently, some growers have expressed concern about the "high pH" of their irrigation water and its potential adverse effects on plants. The purpose of this article is to allay some of these concerns by pointing out the difference between "high pH" and "high alkalinity".

Alkalinity and pH are two important factors in determining the suitability of water for irrigating plants. pH is a measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions (H+) in water or other liquids. In general, water for irrigation should have a pH b etween 5.0 and 7.0. Water with pH below 7.0 is termed "acidic" and water with pH above 7.0 is termed "basic"; pH 7.0 is "neutral". Sometimes the term "alkaline" is used instead of "basic" and often "alkaline" is confused with "alkalinity". Alkalinity is a measure of the water's ability to neutralize acidity. An alkalinity test measures the level of bicarbonates, carbonates, and hydroxides in water and test results are generally expressed as "ppm of calcium carbonate (CaCO3)". The desirable range f or irrigation water is 0 to 100 ppm calcium carbonate. Levels between 30 and 60 ppm are considered optimum for most plants.

Irrigation water tests should always include both pH and alkalinity tests. A pH test by itself is not an indication of alkalinity. Water with high alkalinity (i.e., high levels of bicarbonates or carbonates) always has a pH value ÷7 or above, but water with high pH doesn't always have high alkalinity. This is important because high alkalinity exerts the most significant effects on growing medium fertility and plant nutrition.

High pH and High Alkalinity Effects on Plant Nutrition
Potential adverse effects. In most cases irrigating with water having a "high pH" ( 7) causes no problems as long as the alkalinity is low. This water will probably have little effect on growing medium pH because it has little ability to neutralize acidity. This situation is typical for many growers using municipal water in Massachusetts, including water originating from the Quabbin Reservoir.

Of greater concern is the case where water having both high pH and high alkalinity is used for irrigation. In Massachusetts this situation is most common in Berkshire county. One result is that the pH of the growing medium may increase significantly with time. This increase may be so large that normal lime rates must be reduced by as much as 50%. In effect the water acts as a dilute solution of limestone! The problem is most serious when plants are grown in small containers because small volum es of soil are poorly buffered to pH change. Therefore, the combination of high pH and high alkalinity is of particular concern in plug seedling trays. Trace element deficiencies and imbalances of calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) can result from irrigating with high alkalinity water.

It is much more difficult to predict the effects of irrigating outdoor flower crops, gardens, and landscape plants with water having high pH and high alkalinity. On the one hand, in some parts of the United States, long-term irrigation of crops with water high in bicarbonates and carbonates has led to yield-limiting trace element deficiencies which must be corrected with special fertilizers. On the other hand, in New England, several factors probably act together to partially offset the effects of high alkalinity water. First, rainfall levels are relatively high and historically this has caused Ca and Mg ions to leach from the soil. These are replaced with H+ and the result is acidic soil. Second, this acidification may be helped along by the rather acidic rainfall common in this region in more recent times. Third, acid-forming fertilizers also help counteract high pH and alkalinity.

Potential beneficial effects. For some greenhouse operators, water with moderate levels of alkalinity (30-60 ppm) can be an important source of Ca and Mg. With the exception of Peter's EXCEL and a few other fertilizers, most water soluble fertil izers do not supply Ca and Mg. Also, the Ca and Mg from limestone may be inadequate for some plants. Moderately alkaline water could be beneficial as a source of extra Ca and Mg for crops prone to Ca and Mg deficiencies (e.g., poinsettia).

Other Effects of High pH and High Alkalinity
In addition to nutritional disorders of plants, water with high alkalinity can cause other problems. Bicarbonates and carbonates can clog the nozzles of pesticide sprayers and drip tube irrigation systems with obvious effects. The activity of some pesticides, floral preservatives, and growth regulators is markedly reduced by high alkalinity. When some pesticides are mixed with water they must acidify the solution to be completely effective. Additional acidifier may be needed to neutralize all of the alkalinity. To determine if a chemical is affected by high alkalinity, carefully review the product's label. Unfortunately this potentially important information is not always printed on the label, so considerable extra effort may be necessary to find the inf ormation. A call to the manufacturer will probably be needed for most chemicals.

Acidification of High Alkalinity Water
Many greenhouse operators inject acid (e.g., phosphoric, nitric, or sulfuric acid) into water with problematic high levels of alkalinity. Acidification of water having high pH but low alkalinity is rarely necessary. The use of acid injection sh ould be considered very carefully for several reasons. First, it is an extra step in production which will require additional materials and equipment. Second, acids are dangerous to handle and may damage some injectors and piping systems. Third, phosphoric or nitric acid are sources of P and NO3, so the regular fertilizer program may need to be modified to take into account the addition of these nutrients. This would depend on how much acid must be used to neutralize the alkalinity and reduce pH. Fourth, sometimes acid injection causes the solubilization of normally precipitated (unavailable) forms of trace elements resulting in levels toxic to plants.

The amount of acid required to reach the desired pH (i.e., neutralize alkalinity) is determined by laboratory titration of a water sample with the appropriate acid or by a calculation procedure. Some "fine-tuning" may be needed later when actual inject ion is started. Acid is always injected prior to the addition of fertilizer or other chemicals.

Prepared by Douglas Cox
Plant and Soil Sciences
University of Massachusetts

https://ag.umass.edu/fact-sheets/water-quality-ph-alkalinity

Heres a second link for another look http://www.greenhousegrower.com/pro...ant-nutrition-irrigation-water-alkalinity-ph/

" If your going to kick authority in the teeth, you might as well use both feet"
Keith Richards

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...ater-with-high-alkalinity.77509/#post-1569526

That's legit stuff. Thanks

 

[petraus]

How is the total alkalinity of your well water? Hard water/calcium carbonates/lime can create all sorts of issues with your plants. You should get your well water tested to see what your dkh levels are.

Check this article,

Did you know that feed water with high alkalinity will substantially raise the medium Ph in the rhizopshere no matter what the Ph of the input water is???

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding over ph and alkalinity. I seem to remember posting on this a while back but this article seems a tad more informative and easier to understand.

I would think this info to be more useful to those of us that rely on groundwater aquifers or well water supplies that dont get tested or get treated to adjust total alkalinity.

Water Quality: pH and Alkalinity

Recently, some growers have expressed concern about the "high pH" of their irrigation water and its potential adverse effects on plants. The purpose of this article is to allay some of these concerns by pointing out the difference between "high pH" and "high alkalinity".

Alkalinity and pH are two important factors in determining the suitability of water for irrigating plants. pH is a measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions (H+) in water or other liquids. In general, water for irrigation should have a pH b etween 5.0 and 7.0. Water with pH below 7.0 is termed "acidic" and water with pH above 7.0 is termed "basic"; pH 7.0 is "neutral". Sometimes the term "alkaline" is used instead of "basic" and often "alkaline" is confused with "alkalinity". Alkalinity is a measure of the water's ability to neutralize acidity. An alkalinity test measures the level of bicarbonates, carbonates, and hydroxides in water and test results are generally expressed as "ppm of calcium carbonate (CaCO3)". The desirable range f or irrigation water is 0 to 100 ppm calcium carbonate. Levels between 30 and 60 ppm are considered optimum for most plants.

Irrigation water tests should always include both pH and alkalinity tests. A pH test by itself is not an indication of alkalinity. Water with high alkalinity (i.e., high levels of bicarbonates or carbonates) always has a pH value ÷7 or above, but water with high pH doesn't always have high alkalinity. This is important because high alkalinity exerts the most significant effects on growing medium fertility and plant nutrition.

High pH and High Alkalinity Effects on Plant Nutrition
Potential adverse effects. In most cases irrigating with water having a "high pH" ( 7) causes no problems as long as the alkalinity is low. This water will probably have little effect on growing medium pH because it has little ability to neutralize acidity. This situation is typical for many growers using municipal water in Massachusetts, including water originating from the Quabbin Reservoir.

Of greater concern is the case where water having both high pH and high alkalinity is used for irrigation. In Massachusetts this situation is most common in Berkshire county. One result is that the pH of the growing medium may increase significantly with time. This increase may be so large that normal lime rates must be reduced by as much as 50%. In effect the water acts as a dilute solution of limestone! The problem is most serious when plants are grown in small containers because small volum es of soil are poorly buffered to pH change. Therefore, the combination of high pH and high alkalinity is of particular concern in plug seedling trays. Trace element deficiencies and imbalances of calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) can result from irrigating with high alkalinity water.

It is much more difficult to predict the effects of irrigating outdoor flower crops, gardens, and landscape plants with water having high pH and high alkalinity. On the one hand, in some parts of the United States, long-term irrigation of crops with water high in bicarbonates and carbonates has led to yield-limiting trace element deficiencies which must be corrected with special fertilizers. On the other hand, in New England, several factors probably act together to partially offset the effects of high alkalinity water. First, rainfall levels are relatively high and historically this has caused Ca and Mg ions to leach from the soil. These are replaced with H+ and the result is acidic soil. Second, this acidification may be helped along by the rather acidic rainfall common in this region in more recent times. Third, acid-forming fertilizers also help counteract high pH and alkalinity.

Potential beneficial effects. For some greenhouse operators, water with moderate levels of alkalinity (30-60 ppm) can be an important source of Ca and Mg. With the exception of Peter's EXCEL and a few other fertilizers, most water soluble fertil izers do not supply Ca and Mg. Also, the Ca and Mg from limestone may be inadequate for some plants. Moderately alkaline water could be beneficial as a source of extra Ca and Mg for crops prone to Ca and Mg deficiencies (e.g., poinsettia).

Other Effects of High pH and High Alkalinity
In addition to nutritional disorders of plants, water with high alkalinity can cause other problems. Bicarbonates and carbonates can clog the nozzles of pesticide sprayers and drip tube irrigation systems with obvious effects. The activity of some pesticides, floral preservatives, and growth regulators is markedly reduced by high alkalinity. When some pesticides are mixed with water they must acidify the solution to be completely effective. Additional acidifier may be needed to neutralize all of the alkalinity. To determine if a chemical is affected by high alkalinity, carefully review the product's label. Unfortunately this potentially important information is not always printed on the label, so considerable extra effort may be necessary to find the inf ormation. A call to the manufacturer will probably be needed for most chemicals.

Acidification of High Alkalinity Water
Many greenhouse operators inject acid (e.g., phosphoric, nitric, or sulfuric acid) into water with problematic high levels of alkalinity. Acidification of water having high pH but low alkalinity is rarely necessary. The use of acid injection sh ould be considered very carefully for several reasons. First, it is an extra step in production which will require additional materials and equipment. Second, acids are dangerous to handle and may damage some injectors and piping systems. Third, phosphoric or nitric acid are sources of P and NO3, so the regular fertilizer program may need to be modified to take into account the addition of these nutrients. This would depend on how much acid must be used to neutralize the alkalinity and reduce pH. Fourth, sometimes acid injection causes the solubilization of normally precipitated (unavailable) forms of trace elements resulting in levels toxic to plants.

The amount of acid required to reach the desired pH (i.e., neutralize alkalinity) is determined by laboratory titration of a water sample with the appropriate acid or by a calculation procedure. Some "fine-tuning" may be needed later when actual inject ion is started. Acid is always injected prior to the addition of fertilizer or other chemicals.

Prepared by Douglas Cox
Plant and Soil Sciences
University of Massachusetts

https://ag.umass.edu/fact-sheets/water-quality-ph-alkalinity

Heres a second link for another look http://www.greenhousegrower.com/pro...ant-nutrition-irrigation-water-alkalinity-ph/

" If your going to kick authority in the teeth, you might as well use both feet"
Keith Richards

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...ater-with-high-alkalinity.77509/#post-1569526

Yo! Sooo my alkalinity is at 90ppm...

How can I use this info?!!!

Thanks :) oh, and good morning

 

[jumpincactus]

Well I just got done with a article and there are a few folks working on nute formulations to counter the total alkalinity of "hard water" JR Peters is one of them. Let me pull up the article for you and I will post it up. I myself am going to give some a try as all of my outdoor garden is watered using very alkaline water and all my plants suffer from extremely high rootzone ph due to the total alkalinity of my water supply. Acid injection is for the big boys and greenhouse growers that can afford acid injection systems. So I am excited someone has figured out a way to counter this condition with nute solutions. The article also includes a range of ppms needed to drop total alkalinity to desired ranges.

Here it is, found it. I hope this helps you out man.

Managing Highly Alkaline Irrigation Water

New fertilizer formulations offer plant nutrition and help manage water quality.



Ornamental growers have long struggled with managing growing media pH. Maintaining correct growing media pH is critical for many crops especially if production time is greater than six to eight weeks. Today, numerous popular crops have difficulty absorbing iron — especially when pH levels in their root zones are high. High root-zone pH can tie up micronutrients, especially in crops with a high demand for iron, such as petunias. When media pH rises excessively, micronutrients become less available and young leaves on affected plants turn chlorotic (Figure 1). Unfortunately, many growers of such crops often treat the resulting high pH symptoms by applying high concentrations of chelated iron instead of proactively managing the underlying cause — the growing media with high pH levels itself.

“The most frequent cause of high root-zone pH is poor irrigation water quality, especially high total alkalinity or bicarbonate levels that can cause media pH to skyrocket over time,” said Chris Buchheit, marketing manager for Everris’s ornamental horticulture nutrition products. “Highly alkaline water can also clog injectors and drip lines with calcium carbonate deposits. Current practices to manage high alkalinity are complicated, costly and can potentially create liability issues.”

Defining Water Types

The first step in managing alkalinity in water is to determine how alkaline the water really is. Table 1 (page 34) shows how Everris defines typical water types, likely root-zone pH management issues and suggested remedies. Irrigation waters with high total alkalinity (Types 3 and 4) are very common, especially in non-coastal USA areas. Additionally, Type 2 water is widespread throughout the entire United States, and it can often benefit from some acidification depending on a grower’s crop or cropping system.

Growers who find themselves in a situation with highly alkaline irrigation water tend to fall into three groups:
• Some growers don’t acidify their irrigation water and allow their crops to suffer from root-zone pH rise (iron deficiencies). They have to accept poor plant quality and the resulting lost profits.
• Other growers wait until they observe obvious deficiency symptoms before they react. They ignore water alkalinity and allow growing media pH levels to rise too high, treating symptoms with higher concentrations or frequent applications of chelated micronutrients.
• Still other growers test their water and devise management programs that include the following elements:

1. Consider alternate water sources with lower alkalinity levels.
2. Fight growing media pH rise by using fertilizers with higher Potential Acidity values (listed on fertilizer labels).
3. Set up acid injection systems.
4. Modify lime charge in growing media.

“All these strategies have downsides,” Buchheit said. “Growers who ignore the problem and suffer economically may do so because a simple, easy-to-implement solution isn’t available. Those who ignore the high alkalinity but treat the symptoms on selected crops must scramble to apply additives like chelated iron sprays. This makes their fertilizer programs more costly and complicated — especially when they grow a variety of crops that react differently to rising pH levels in growing media. Those growers who take the trouble to test water and devise a management system still could be taking on additional costs, complexity, labor and potential risk.”

New Fertilizer Formulations
Growers need to simultaneously provide proper nutrition for their crops and manage irrigation water alkalinity (maintaining growing media pH control). Sometimes these two goals may be at odds, and meeting one objective can often compromise the other objective. For example, using fertilizers with high potential acidity to maintain an acceptable growing media pH range may be a viable option for water types with alkalinity levels below 150 ppm. The key word here is “potential,” as the acidification happens over time as plants take up these fertilizers and the roots themselves acidify the soil. The plant must actively uptake nutrients for this action to occur. These fertilizers have a higher content of ammoniacal (NH4+) and urea-based nitrogen, and their use may not always be desirable depending on crop stage and time of year as high NH4+ nitrogen can lead to lush soft growth.

Sometimes highly alkaline waters are calcium-deficient, but the only way to add calcium is to add a potentially basic fertilizer. Unfortunately using a calcium-containing fertilizer with this type of water will further contribute to rising root-zone pH levels whenever it’s applied. Acid injection causes other issues. It can be complicated to mix, corrode equipment, require the use of protective equipment, create handling and storage hazards and increase costs. Furthermore, commonly used acids such as phosphoric and sulfuric acids are not always compatible with all fertilizer formulations, often contributing significant levels of sulfur or phosphorus that can compromise nutritional programs.

To address this issue, Everris has recently developed Peters Excel pHLow, a new water-soluble fertilizer line using technology based on PekAcid, a proprietary raw material invented by its parent company (ICL) that helps manage high alkaline waters. This unique component is a pure, highly acidic, non-corrosive white crystalline raw material that contributes significant levels of phosphorous and potassium, is highly soluble, fast-dissolving, and when added in stock tank concentrate forms, phosphoric acid. It imparts active acidity properties to Everris’s products that will reduce water alkalinity at the point of injection, reducing or eliminating the need to use mineral acid.

“The new Peters Excel pHLow water-soluble fertilizer line offers growers a complete, one-bag nutrient solution and an effective tool to help manage irrigation water alkalinity that’s safer-to-use than conventional liquid acids,” Buchheit explained. “These new products are available in a variety of nutrient formulations to match crop nutrients needs: Cal-Mag, High Mag and All Purpose. At the same time, they help manage moderate to high alkalinity water, therefore helping control growing media pH.”

Buchheit says that Everris tested its new formulations on spring crops sensitive to iron toxicity — marigolds and geraniums, for example — to ensure that the active acidity would not cause any production problems. He says that Peters Excel pHLow-treated plants achieved very high quality grades while maintaining acceptable growing media pHs even when higher alkaline water was used.

Everris’s research and development team also tested various formulations with different nutrient contents to determine their effect on reducing excess irrigation water alkalinity levels. Regardless of nutrient content, all Peters Excel pHLow formulations have roughly equivalent active acidity of 1/3 fl. oz. of 85 percent phosphoric acid or 0.4 fl. oz. of battery acid. These predictable reductions in alkalinity while fertilizing are significant enough to be used to manage growing media pH, but not too excessive to cause problems such as low media pH:

• Concentrations of 100-ppm nitrogen reduces total alkalinity by 19 ppm
• Concentrations of 200-ppm nitrogen reduces total alkalinity by 40 ppm
• Concentrations of 400-ppm nitrogen reduces Total Alkalinity by 72 ppm

According to Everris, products like Peters Excel pHLow can be a useful tool for growers who want an alternative to liquid acids, who use high ammoniacal nitrogen fertilizers or who are not currently doing anything to manage irrigation water alkalinity in Water Types 2, 3 and 4. For growers who are acidifying now, the use of this type of product should reduce or eliminate the amount of acid being injected. Additionally this type of treatment is well-suited for crops that require lower root-zone pH’s. Obviously if water alkalinity levels are extremely high, acid injection remains the most viable option.

“This new technology gives growers a unique opportunity to tackle high water alkalinity management, a critical factor for growing success,” Buchheit added. “Peters Excel pHlow is a reliable nutrition source that matches the needs of the plants they are growing. It’s also an effective tool to help manage moderate to high alkalinity water — and it’s a safer alternative to liquid acid.”

 

[petraus]

Well I just got done with a article and there are a few folks working on nute formulations to counter the total alkalinity of "hard water" JR Peters is one of them. Let me pull up the article for you and I will post it up. I myself am going to give some a try as all of my outdoor garden is watered using very alkaline water and all my plants suffer from extremely high rootzone ph due to the total alkalinity of my water supply. Acid injection is for the big boys and greenhouse growers that can afford acid injection systems. So I am excited someone has figured out a way to counter this condition with nute solutions. The article also includes a range of ppms needed to drop total alkalinity to desired ranges.

Here it is, found it. I hope this helps you out man.

Managing Highly Alkaline Irrigation Water

New fertilizer formulations offer plant nutrition and help manage water quality.



Ornamental growers have long struggled with managing growing media pH. Maintaining correct growing media pH is critical for many crops especially if production time is greater than six to eight weeks. Today, numerous popular crops have difficulty absorbing iron — especially when pH levels in their root zones are high. High root-zone pH can tie up micronutrients, especially in crops with a high demand for iron, such as petunias. When media pH rises excessively, micronutrients become less available and young leaves on affected plants turn chlorotic (Figure 1). Unfortunately, many growers of such crops often treat the resulting high pH symptoms by applying high concentrations of chelated iron instead of proactively managing the underlying cause — the growing media with high pH levels itself.

“The most frequent cause of high root-zone pH is poor irrigation water quality, especially high total alkalinity or bicarbonate levels that can cause media pH to skyrocket over time,” said Chris Buchheit, marketing manager for Everris’s ornamental horticulture nutrition products. “Highly alkaline water can also clog injectors and drip lines with calcium carbonate deposits. Current practices to manage high alkalinity are complicated, costly and can potentially create liability issues.”

Defining Water Types

The first step in managing alkalinity in water is to determine how alkaline the water really is. Table 1 (page 34) shows how Everris defines typical water types, likely root-zone pH management issues and suggested remedies. Irrigation waters with high total alkalinity (Types 3 and 4) are very common, especially in non-coastal USA areas. Additionally, Type 2 water is widespread throughout the entire United States, and it can often benefit from some acidification depending on a grower’s crop or cropping system.

Growers who find themselves in a situation with highly alkaline irrigation water tend to fall into three groups:
• Some growers don’t acidify their irrigation water and allow their crops to suffer from root-zone pH rise (iron deficiencies). They have to accept poor plant quality and the resulting lost profits.
• Other growers wait until they observe obvious deficiency symptoms before they react. They ignore water alkalinity and allow growing media pH levels to rise too high, treating symptoms with higher concentrations or frequent applications of chelated micronutrients.
• Still other growers test their water and devise management programs that include the following elements:

1. Consider alternate water sources with lower alkalinity levels.
2. Fight growing media pH rise by using fertilizers with higher Potential Acidity values (listed on fertilizer labels).
3. Set up acid injection systems.
4. Modify lime charge in growing media.

“All these strategies have downsides,” Buchheit said. “Growers who ignore the problem and suffer economically may do so because a simple, easy-to-implement solution isn’t available. Those who ignore the high alkalinity but treat the symptoms on selected crops must scramble to apply additives like chelated iron sprays. This makes their fertilizer programs more costly and complicated — especially when they grow a variety of crops that react differently to rising pH levels in growing media. Those growers who take the trouble to test water and devise a management system still could be taking on additional costs, complexity, labor and potential risk.”

New Fertilizer Formulations
Growers need to simultaneously provide proper nutrition for their crops and manage irrigation water alkalinity (maintaining growing media pH control). Sometimes these two goals may be at odds, and meeting one objective can often compromise the other objective. For example, using fertilizers with high potential acidity to maintain an acceptable growing media pH range may be a viable option for water types with alkalinity levels below 150 ppm. The key word here is “potential,” as the acidification happens over time as plants take up these fertilizers and the roots themselves acidify the soil. The plant must actively uptake nutrients for this action to occur. These fertilizers have a higher content of ammoniacal (NH4+) and urea-based nitrogen, and their use may not always be desirable depending on crop stage and time of year as high NH4+ nitrogen can lead to lush soft growth.

Sometimes highly alkaline waters are calcium-deficient, but the only way to add calcium is to add a potentially basic fertilizer. Unfortunately using a calcium-containing fertilizer with this type of water will further contribute to rising root-zone pH levels whenever it’s applied. Acid injection causes other issues. It can be complicated to mix, corrode equipment, require the use of protective equipment, create handling and storage hazards and increase costs. Furthermore, commonly used acids such as phosphoric and sulfuric acids are not always compatible with all fertilizer formulations, often contributing significant levels of sulfur or phosphorus that can compromise nutritional programs.

To address this issue, Everris has recently developed Peters Excel pHLow, a new water-soluble fertilizer line using technology based on PekAcid, a proprietary raw material invented by its parent company (ICL) that helps manage high alkaline waters. This unique component is a pure, highly acidic, non-corrosive white crystalline raw material that contributes significant levels of phosphorous and potassium, is highly soluble, fast-dissolving, and when added in stock tank concentrate forms, phosphoric acid. It imparts active acidity properties to Everris’s products that will reduce water alkalinity at the point of injection, reducing or eliminating the need to use mineral acid.

“The new Peters Excel pHLow water-soluble fertilizer line offers growers a complete, one-bag nutrient solution and an effective tool to help manage irrigation water alkalinity that’s safer-to-use than conventional liquid acids,” Buchheit explained. “These new products are available in a variety of nutrient formulations to match crop nutrients needs: Cal-Mag, High Mag and All Purpose. At the same time, they help manage moderate to high alkalinity water, therefore helping control growing media pH.”

Buchheit says that Everris tested its new formulations on spring crops sensitive to iron toxicity — marigolds and geraniums, for example — to ensure that the active acidity would not cause any production problems. He says that Peters Excel pHLow-treated plants achieved very high quality grades while maintaining acceptable growing media pHs even when higher alkaline water was used.

Everris’s research and development team also tested various formulations with different nutrient contents to determine their effect on reducing excess irrigation water alkalinity levels. Regardless of nutrient content, all Peters Excel pHLow formulations have roughly equivalent active acidity of 1/3 fl. oz. of 85 percent phosphoric acid or 0.4 fl. oz. of battery acid. These predictable reductions in alkalinity while fertilizing are significant enough to be used to manage growing media pH, but not too excessive to cause problems such as low media pH:

• Concentrations of 100-ppm nitrogen reduces total alkalinity by 19 ppm
• Concentrations of 200-ppm nitrogen reduces total alkalinity by 40 ppm
• Concentrations of 400-ppm nitrogen reduces Total Alkalinity by 72 ppm

According to Everris, products like Peters Excel pHLow can be a useful tool for growers who want an alternative to liquid acids, who use high ammoniacal nitrogen fertilizers or who are not currently doing anything to manage irrigation water alkalinity in Water Types 2, 3 and 4. For growers who are acidifying now, the use of this type of product should reduce or eliminate the amount of acid being injected. Additionally this type of treatment is well-suited for crops that require lower root-zone pH’s. Obviously if water alkalinity levels are extremely high, acid injection remains the most viable option.

“This new technology gives growers a unique opportunity to tackle high water alkalinity management, a critical factor for growing success,” Buchheit added. “Peters Excel pHlow is a reliable nutrition source that matches the needs of the plants they are growing. It’s also an effective tool to help manage moderate to high alkalinity water — and it’s a safer alternative to liquid acid.”

Bro, I LOVE this shit!
Seriously, like fuck..I've been growing for 8 years or so and have NEVER heard of this as important. And I would think it's crucial..?? Could be due to my lack of research, but I always thought I went way too far into it and got obsessive haha..

I'm trying to wrap my head around what this all means though...

Is 90ppm alkalinity bad?? If the alkalinity measures the waters ability to neutralize acidity...why would that be bad? Cause it fights acidity by going base? (Higher number ph)??

 

[jumpincactus]

Bro, I LOVE this shit!
Seriously, like fuck..I've been growing for 8 years or so and have NEVER heard of this as important. And I would think it's crucial..?? Could be due to my lack of research, but I always thought I went way too far into it and got obsessive haha..

I'm trying to wrap my head around what this all means though...

Is 90ppm alkalinity bad?? If the alkalinity measures the waters ability to neutralize acidity...why would that be bad? Cause it fights acidity by going base? (Higher number ph)??

90 ppm is too high. Optimum levels target range should be 30-60 ppm 30 being the preferred level as it is on the lower end of acceptable total alkalinity.

 

[Farmer P]

One of these cheap pool tester kits can tell you total alkalinity.

 

[jumpincactus]

One of these cheap pool tester kits can tell you total alkalinity.

You are correct sir. Also salt water reef aquarium supply stores also have kits to test. Lamottes makes a excellent water quality test kit.

https://www.marinedepot.com/Salifer...ater_Aquariums-Salifert-SF1123-FITKAL-vi.html

 

[Farmer P]

You are correct sir. Also salt water reef aquarium supply stores also have kits to test. Lamottes makes a excellent water quality test kit.

https://www.marinedepot.com/Salifer...ater_Aquariums-Salifert-SF1123-FITKAL-vi.html

Good link. That's probably more accurate than mine.

 

[petraus]

One of these cheap pool tester kits can tell you total alkalinity.

Yeah! That's how I found out it's at 90ppm...what's the average alkalinity of city water?

 

[petraus]

You are correct sir. Also salt water reef aquarium supply stores also have kits to test. Lamottes makes a excellent water quality test kit.

https://www.marinedepot.com/Salifer...ater_Aquariums-Salifert-SF1123-FITKAL-vi.html

Nice. Thanks for the info brosef.

Sooo where do I go to get a COMPLETE analysis done on the water? Not specifically, but like what kind of companies provide this service? I'd gladly pay a bill or two and get it done asap then a mail in thing

 

[jumpincactus]

Depends on city, location/geography and filtration treatment means.

 

[petraus]

You are correct sir. Also salt water reef aquarium supply stores also have kits to test. Lamottes makes a excellent water quality test kit.

https://www.marinedepot.com/Salifer...ater_Aquariums-Salifert-SF1123-FITKAL-vi.html

So, what do you suggest I do with a 90alkalinity?!? Buy spring water? I'm broke to splurge, but this is an investment and I will treat it as such. So the costs of options aside, what's my best go?

 

[petraus]

And I wanna know what every part of the million is!

 

[jumpincactus]

Nice. Thanks for the info brosef.

Sooo where do I go to get a COMPLETE analysis done on the water? Not specifically, but like what kind of companies provide this service? I'd gladly pay a bill or two and get it done asap then a mail in thing

Your water supplier if municipal is required to post water quality reports. Well water needs to be sent to a lab for testing. Contact these folks and ask if they do total alkalinity testing.

http://www.watercheck.com/

 

[Farmer P]

Yeah! That's how I found out it's at 90ppm...what's the average alkalinity of city water?

I don't know what the average is, (probably a wide range from city to city) but mine comes in high at about 180. My city uses a lot of well water, I don't know how much of a difference that makes.

 

[Farmer P]

I just tested the same water, but ran through a black berkey water filter it came in at 150. I just read that the max allowable for city water is 500 so I guess my 180 is not too bad.

 

[Farmer P]

So, what do you suggest I do with a 90alkalinity?!? Buy spring water? I'm broke to splurge, but this is an investment and I will treat it as such. So the costs of options aside, what's my best go?

I'm thinking it means to make sure and ph your water. Its more important in container plants than in the ground (according to the article above). By adding the acid you are neutralizing that high alkalinity. I always ph indoors, but never outdoors.

 

[below frigid]

I had a lab test my well water for me. PH 7.2, Hardness 883 mg/L, TDS 1360 mg/L, Alkalinity 333mg/L. I have been having issues with my starts this year. Could not figure it out until I read some of the good info in this thread. In years past I lived in town and started my plants there on city water in 4 and 5 inch pots then brought them down to the ranch and transplanted into 2 gallon pots where they only lived for 3 or 4 weeks. This season living at the ranch full time they have been on well water from the start and straight into to 2 gallon pots where they have been for 8 weeks. Never had issues with the water before. They looked over watered and like they had PH issues. I could not figure it out. After reading the info here I figured out that what little buffering ability the 2 gallons of soil had was not buffering the water anymore since they have been in the 2 gallon pots for an extended period. The fix. I mixed up some PCF Brix Mix with some soluble Humic Acid and watered them with that. In a couple of hours they looked much better and in a day you would not know they were the same plants. Not sure if it was the humic acid lowering the ph or chelating the nutrients but it worked. After they get in the 200 gallon pots I have not had issues in many years even though I re use the soil season after season some over 10 years. It does get re amended every year.

 

[petraus]

I had a lab test my well water for me. PH 7.2, Hardness 883 mg/L, TDS 1360 mg/L, Alkalinity 333mg/L. I have been having issues with my starts this year. Could not figure it out until I read some of the good info in this thread. In years past I lived in town and started my plants there on city water in 4 and 5 inch pots then brought them down to the ranch and transplanted into 2 gallon pots where they only lived for 3 or 4 weeks. This season living at the ranch full time they have been on well water from the start and straight into to 2 gallon pots where they have been for 8 weeks. Never had issues with the water before. They looked over watered and like they had PH issues. I could not figure it out. After reading the info here I figured out that what little buffering ability the 2 gallons of soil had was not buffering the water anymore since they have been in the 2 gallon pots for an extended period. The fix. I mixed up some PCF Brix Mix with some soluble Humic Acid and watered them with that. In a couple of hours they looked much better and in a day you would not know they were the same plants. Not sure if it was the humic acid lowering the ph or chelating the nutrients but it worked. After they get in the 200 gallon pots I have not had issues in many years even though I re use the soil season after season some over 10 years. It does get re amended every year.

Fuck yeah. Props to the bouncing peyote for hooking us both up with some good info