What's The Hottest New Organic Fert Line!!

[Organikz]

The only reason to add outside compost would be to make up for erosion. Organic matter breaks down to pure humus which can turn 1g of soil into a 1/2 cup.

 

[Organikz]

i know this is a wild thing but let's strip down these amendments.

• (alfalfa) nitrogen amendment - usually high in protein and crude fiber AKA protenase and urease
• (sea bird guano) phos - usually high in phosphotase as birds have these naturally occuring enzymes that aid in digestion
• (kelp meal) potassium? - not so much for potassium but as said it's a bonus but is very high in cytokinin

so in conclusion plants may really utilize the same diet as us. We break these different amendments down with enzymes when we eat them...well besides sea bird guano.

MBP contains all of these so it's a single amendment that covers everything. Including carbonate as obviously if it contains chitinase there are carbonate layers.

amylase is in your saliva and is the first step to digestion. It converts sugars into starch. When you get cavities it's not the sugar. it's the amylase releasing nucleic and amino acids as it converts sugar into starch which is what plaque is...

Body builders eat a lot of carbs. They don't know that the body is converting them into amino acids which feed muscles.

 

[MIMedGrower]

The only reason to add outside compost would be to make up for erosion. Organic matter breaks down to pure humus which can turn 1g of soil into a 1/2 cup.

You can't get something from nothing. If you are not adding new castings or compost what are you feeding the worms?

Clover right? Instant compost right in the pot. The fertilizer is perpetual no?

There is no magic here. And you can't be sure to control the micro life. If conditions are right it thrives anyway. Even in my pots. And if conditions are unfavorable......

I understand all the science. I'm just saying that this is my medicine. I absolutely need to maximize canabanoids in each plant and each different strain perpetually.

This system can work. But I would still keep compatible soluble nutrients around to make sure.

And the plant still won't care how it uptakes nutrients. It will even do both. Marijuana is an accumulator and I want to pose an un talked about angle.

Pharmaceutical grade agricultural nutrients are clean. They are pure elements. They are not inherently "bad" as inferred. Our use of them in agriculture was misguided and terribly damaging but that has very little to do with a well managed indoor garden. Composts and worms are not. And they can harbor bad bacteria. And they make many people sick from handling and ingesting.

And we are talking about medicine. You know I use no additives and Grow in a quality bagged potting soil.

I also use a bottled hydro-organic base nute in flower. But lately I am having nutrient issues due to my well water softening. And pure Blend Pro has limited calcium it seems for my fast growing plants. And fast growing for annuals is key to reaching the plants potential and getting the high levels of canabanoids we need.

So I am switching back to Botanicare Kind. It is a mineral based nute with added seaweed extract. And it is 3 part with the base containing only calcium nitrate. The rest is in the Grow and bloom bottles each complete. I will be able to customize the calcium I add.

This kind of customization will reduce imbalances and excess nutes. Which is a great way to maximize yield and still have high quality flowers.

In nature and unfortunately in organic gardening. Imbalances can be common and can not be reversed quickly.

I may even go back to pro mix. It's cheaper and I don't really believe it matters how the plant gets its nutrients in my well controlled indoor garden.

Outside is a different matter. I like organics outside.

That's my opinion on this anyway. There is no need for you to teach me about this stuff. We have threads going back years on multiple forums to read. Do a search. Tons of Grows posted out there.

And that garden in the video is beautiful. But it is not yielding as well as it could. Gpw is kind of full of variables but if I use it as a metric I get about .9 and my buds are a lot fuller than his. And I am using 600's. Looks great though!

 

[Organikz]

You can't get something from nothing. If you are not adding new castings or compost what are you feeding the worms?

Clover right? Instant compost right in the pot. The fertilizer is perpetual no?

There is no magic here. And you can't be sure to control the micro life. If conditions are right it thrives anyway. Even in my pots. And if conditions are unfavorable......

I understand all the science. I'm just saying that this is my medicine. I absolutely need to maximize canabanoids in each plant and each different strain perpetually.

This system can work. But I would still keep compatible soluble nutrients around to make sure.

And the plant still won't care how it uptakes nutrients. It will even do both. Marijuana is an accumulator and I want to pose an un talked about angle.

Pharmaceutical grade agricultural nutrients are clean. They are pure elements. They are not inherently "bad" as inferred. Our use of them in agriculture was misguided and terribly damaging but that has very little to do with a well managed indoor garden. Composts and worms are not. And they can harbor bad bacteria. And they make many people sick from handling and ingesting.

And we are talking about medicine. You know I use no additives and Grow in a quality bagged potting soil.

I also use a bottled hydro-organic base nute in flower. But lately I am having nutrient issues due to my well water softening. And pure Blend Pro has limited calcium it seems for my fast growing plants. And fast growing for annuals is key to reaching the plants potential and getting the high levels of canabanoids we need.

So I am switching back to Botanicare Kind. It is a mineral based nute with added seaweed extract. And it is 3 part with the base containing only calcium nitrate. The rest is in the Grow and bloom bottles each complete. I will be able to customize the calcium I add.

This kind of customization will reduce imbalances and excess nutes. Which is a great way to maximize yield and still have high quality flowers.

In nature and unfortunately in organic gardening. Imbalances can be common and can not be reversed quickly.

I may even go back to pro mix. It's cheaper and I don't really believe it matters how the plant gets its nutrients in my well controlled indoor garden.

Outside is a different matter. I like organics outside.

That's my opinion on this anyway. There is no need for you to teach me about this stuff. We have threads going back years on multiple forums to read. Do a search. Tons of Grows posted out there.

And that garden in the video is beautiful. But it is not yielding as well as it could. Gpw is kind of full of variables but if I use it as a metric I get about .9 and my buds are a lot fuller than his. And I am using 600's. Looks great though!

I am still a firm believer in MBP. The water only was just an example it can be done. The worms eat trimmings and shade leaves that die off. It isn't driving max potential. I agree. The MBP is a great food source for worms and in fact is like alfalfax10 in the fact of increasing cytokinosis in them as well. As you cam see it also supplies what NPK factor is truly after...these nucleic acids. Look at nucleic acids as the filet cut of a cow in reference to the target NPK feed.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I am still a firm believer in MBP. The water only was just an example it can be done. The worms eat trimmings and shade leaves that die off. It isn't driving max potential. I agree. The MBP is a great food source for worms and in fact is like alfalfax10 in the fact of increasing cytokinosis in them as well. As you cam see it also supplies what NPK factor is truly after...these nucleic acids. Look at nucleic acids as the filet cut of a cow in reference to the target NPK feed.

So you feed the plants their own matter only. No supplemental feed for the worms? They need a balanced diet to offer the proper elements to the plants.

And plants make their own amino acids. There is little research proving adding more than a few specific ones will do anything to help.

And the human supplement market is mostly marketing too.

I worked hard in the natural medicine industry for a few years and my immediate family had md's and phd's. I have a pretty good base of knowledge here.

Please stop trying to convince me with irrelevant analogy. If you have pertinent studies or credible info I will be happy to read.

If nothing new to add I had commented about this to another poster and want to hear his response about the micro nutrients. You don't seem to be addressing that.

 

[Organikz]

So you feed the plants their own matter only. No supplemental feed for the worms? They need a balanced diet to offer the proper elements to the plants.

And plants make their own amino acids. There is little research proving adding more than a few specific ones will do anything to help.

And the human supplement market is mostly marketing too.

I worked hard in the natural medicine industry for a few years and my immediate family had md's and phd's. I have a pretty good base of knowledge here.

Please stop trying to convince me with irrelevant analogy. If you have pertinent studies or credible info I will be happy to read.

If nothing new to add I had commented about this to another poster and want to hear his response about the micro nutrients. You don't seem to be addressing that.

Yes and you notice the 'et al'. he is referring to enzymes that dont matter. He knows what enzymes have positive effect and what doesnt. Ask him bro. As I said the micronutrients are reintroduced through kelp as a bonus but as soil matures and the soil life increases you could essentially eliminate all inputs. Buds are made of carbon and hydrogen. Carbon mostly fixed through respiration. Buds contain 0 inorganic minerals besides silica. Maybe a little is in the stems but a plant should drop most during senescence. The organic matter that did contain your carbonates is now your mulch layer and the worms eat it and back in the system it goes. Its a closed loop.

It takes much research to fully comprehend. Hell I still have aha moments.

The organic matter feeds the worms. The worms feed the microbes. The microbes feed the plants.

Do you see a loop now...

Micronutes including carbonates aren't in buds. They are merely utilized by chloroplast for the photosynthetic process. They are in the leaves which were all returned to the soil including ones that are covered in crystals. Crazy huh

This is why brix level testings are taken through the leaves

 

[MIMedGrower]

Yes and you notice the 'et al'. he is referring to enzymes that dont matter. He knows what enzymes have positive effect and what doesnt. Ask him bro. As I said the micronutrients are reintroduced through kelp as a bonus but as soil matures and the soil life increases you could essentially eliminate all inputs. Buds are made of carbon and hydrogen. Carbon mostly fixed through respiration. Buds contain 0 inorganic minerals besides silica. Maybe a little is in the stems but a plant should drop most during senescence. The organic matter that did contain your carbonates is now your mulch layer and the worms eat it and back in the system it goes. Its a closed loop.

It takes much research to fully comprehend. Hell I still have aha moments.

The organic matter feeds the worms. The worms feed the microbes. The microbes feed the plants.

Do you see a loop now...

Micronutes including carbonates aren't in buds. They are merely utilized by chloroplast for the photosynthetic process. They are in the leaves which were all returned to the soil including ones that are covered in crystals. Crazy huh

This is why brix level testings are taken through the leaves

I tried to tell you that I understand this at a pretty good level.

You still did not cover a full nutrient profile for the plant. And I asked you for credible links.

What you are saying is incomplete and misleading.

You are only just learning plant science huh?

I suggest you read marijuana Botany by Clark for plant specific proper info and much further into horticulture.


Unless you feed the worms a diverse non marijuana diet you will always be deficient. And likely would be anyway without amendments.

Many no till growers help this by using a clover or other cover crops to feed the worms.


I'm out.

 

[Organikz]

I tried to tell you that I understand this at a pretty good level.

You still did not cover a full nutrient profile for the plant. And I asked you for credible links.

What you are saying is incomplete and misleading.

You are only just learning plant science huh?

I suggest you read marijuana Botany by Clark for plant specific proper info and much further into horticulture.


Unless you feed the worms a diverse non marijuana diet you will always be deficient. And likely would be anyway without amendments.

Many no till growers help this by using a clover or other cover crops to feed the worms.


I'm out.

So worms eat clover then? I see you understand as you stated but that ain't the purpose of clover in a LOS. Mulch isn't for the worms to eat. If the no till gardeners you talk to think so then they dont understand.

No till growers search for a mulch that breaks down very slowly. Barley straw for instance. Takes a very long time to break down.

I'm learning at this level just recent. Ingham has been proven wrong as well as most of those authors.

 

[Organikz]

I tried to tell you that I understand this at a pretty good level.

Unless you feed the worms a diverse non marijuana diet you will always be deficient.

Do what? Lol. So compost worms need a diverse diet...worms eat bacterial slime bud. They can't eat solid amendments. They have to be broken down...sigh. worms don't have teeth.

Go talk to the doctor about it.

 

[Irietime]

Phew! It's getting heated in here:eyepiece: I must say y'all are talking over my head, but I get parts of it here and there. That's kind of my style, take different methods from all over and blend them into my own grow. Thanks for kicking some knowledge.

 

[MIMedGrower]

So worms eat clover then? I see you understand as you stated but that ain't the purpose of clover in a LOS. Mulch isn't for the worms to eat. If the no till gardeners you talk to think so then they dont understand.

No till growers search for a mulch that breaks down very slowly. Barley straw for instance. Takes a very long time to break down.

I'm learning at this level just recent. Ingham has been proven wrong as well as most of those authors.

No. There is mulch too. Do a search. When you think one author is correct and many others are wrong maybe you should look at your source.

I see a video with no actual proof of anything.

I have visited your thread. I am interested and positive to see good water only style organic results. But there is no "closed loop" system for cannabis in any credible method I can find.

There are amazing no till grows out there though. I have friends on other forums showing pretty great results.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Do what? Lol. So compost worms need a diverse diet...worms eat bacterial slime bud. They can't eat solid amendments. They have to be broken down...sigh. worms don't have teeth.

Go talk to the doctor about it.

Of course the nutrients need to break down. But you don't seem to understand water soluble nutrients.

Keep lol'ing. I will agree to disagree with you. When your plants are more impressive. If they get more impressive I promise to pay attention.

Lol.

 

[Organikz]

We have a love hate relationship...lol
@MIMedGrower and I get into it all the time but we still can agree on some things. I don't know how.

Of course the nutrients need to break down. But you don't seem to understand water soluble nutrients.

Keep lol'ing. I will agree to disagree with you. When your plants are more impressive. If they get more impressive I promise to pay attention.

Lol.

Some see what others can't and i get that. Sometimes an idea comes from reading 50 different papers on the subject. I try to understand to the best of my knowledge but ultimately nature is an elusive creature. Every miniscule detail can't be explained. It just happens. It just exists like you and I. I didn't make this world. I just live here with you.

After my second cycle I will go to water only until I see issue. This is an experiment for your viewing. I know the results already. Plants will grow with more vigor with each cycle.

@Irietime
I know this got a lot of input but ultimately it comes to your needs. It does take time to kick start a large body of LOS. As @Ecompost mentioned if you don't have time to cook order some pizza. At the end of the day the same goal is achieved. I really was eyeballing the BOX line that @Ecompost carries and it is the real deal. He isn't selling snake oil. I just know by the descriptions that these are raw effective products. Very well written descriptions by the way.

 

[Organikz]

@MIMedGrower
"All systems recycle. The biosphere is a network of continually recycling materials and information in alternating cycles of convergence and divergence. As materials converge or become more concentrated they gain in quality, increasing their potentials to drive useful work in proportion to their concentrations relative to the environment. As their potentials are used, materials diverge, or become more dispersed in the landscape, only to be concentrated again at another time and place.[8]:2
Ecosystems are capable of complete recycling. Complete recycling means that 100% of the waste material can be reconstituted indefinitely. This idea was captured by Howard T. Odum when he penned that "it is thoroughly demonstrated by ecological systems and geological systems that all the chemical elements and many organic substances can be accumulated by living systems from background crustal or oceanic concentrations without limit as to concentration so long as there is available solar or other source of potential energy"[9]:29In 1979 Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen proposed a fourth law of entropy stating that complete recycling is impossible. Despite Georgescu-Roegen's extensive intellectual contributions to the science of ecological economics, the fourth law has been rejected in line with observations of ecological recycling.[10][11] However, some authors state that complete recycling is impossible for technological waste.[12]


A simplified food web illustrating a three-trophic food chain (producers-herbivores-carnivores) linked to decomposers. The movement of mineral nutrients through the food chain, into the mineral nutrient pool, and back into the trophic system illustrates ecological recycling. The movement of energy, in contrast, is unidirectional and noncyclic.[13][14]
Ecosystems execute closed loop recycling where demand for the nutrients that adds to the growth of biomass exceeds supply within that system. There are regional and spatial differences in the rates of growth and exchange of materials, where some ecosystems may be in nutrient debt (sinks) where others will have extra supply (sources). These differences relate to climate, topography, and geological history leaving behind different sources of parent material.[7][15] In terms of a food web, a cycle or loop is defined as "a directed sequence of one or more links starting from, and ending at, the same species."[16]:185 An example of this is the microbial food web in the ocean, where "bacteria are exploited, and controlled, by protozoa, including heterotrophic microflagellates which are in turn exploited by ciliates. This grazing activity is accompanied by excretion of substances which are in turn used by the bacteria, so that the system more or less operates in a closed circuit."[17]:69–70"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrient_cycle#Complete_and_closed_loop

 

[Organikz]

Don't kick it til ya try it. Please understand I'm not inventing anything here. You think I'm a crazy person? I won't come out and say things until I mostly understand anyway and have done extensive research. I read at least 20 different papers on each topic to find a pattern of agreement and I continue to read more. I don't read one book and say oh okay that's it I'm done learning. If you think you've learned all you need to know you've learned nothing.

 

[MIMedGrower]

@MIMedGrower
"All systems recycle. The biosphere is a network of continually recycling materials and information in alternating cycles of convergence and divergence. As materials converge or become more concentrated they gain in quality, increasing their potentials to drive useful work in proportion to their concentrations relative to the environment. As their potentials are used, materials diverge, or become more dispersed in the landscape, only to be concentrated again at another time and place.[8]:2
Ecosystems are capable of complete recycling. Complete recycling means that 100% of the waste material can be reconstituted indefinitely. This idea was captured by Howard T. Odum when he penned that "it is thoroughly demonstrated by ecological systems and geological systems that all the chemical elements and many organic substances can be accumulated by living systems from background crustal or oceanic concentrations without limit as to concentration so long as there is available solar or other source of potential energy"[9]:29In 1979 Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen proposed a fourth law of entropy stating that complete recycling is impossible. Despite Georgescu-Roegen's extensive intellectual contributions to the science of ecological economics, the fourth law has been rejected in line with observations of ecological recycling.[10][11] However, some authors state that complete recycling is impossible for technological waste.[12]


A simplified food web illustrating a three-trophic food chain (producers-herbivores-carnivores) linked to decomposers. The movement of mineral nutrients through the food chain, into the mineral nutrient pool, and back into the trophic system illustrates ecological recycling. The movement of energy, in contrast, is unidirectional and noncyclic.[13][14]
Ecosystems execute closed loop recycling where demand for the nutrients that adds to the growth of biomass exceeds supply within that system. There are regional and spatial differences in the rates of growth and exchange of materials, where some ecosystems may be in nutrient debt (sinks) where others will have extra supply (sources). These differences relate to climate, topography, and geological history leaving behind different sources of parent material.[7][15] In terms of a food web, a cycle or loop is defined as "a directed sequence of one or more links starting from, and ending at, the same species."[16]:185 An example of this is the microbial food web in the ocean, where "bacteria are exploited, and controlled, by protozoa, including heterotrophic microflagellates which are in turn exploited by ciliates. This grazing activity is accompanied by excretion of substances which are in turn used by the bacteria, so that the system more or less operates in a closed circuit."[17]:69–70"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrient_cycle#Complete_and_closed_loop

Yes. A complete ecosystem. Not a little pot of soil with no diversity of input.

Thanks for agreeing to disagree. And that is a wiki article. Not much better than YouTube for credibility in my opinion.

But please. Please stop pretending to teach me about any of this. The only things we would be agreeing on are facts.

 

[Organikz]

Yes. A complete ecosystem. Not a little pot of soil with no diversity of input.

Thanks for agreeing to disagree. And that is a wiki article. Not much better than YouTube for credibility in my opinion.

But please. Please stop pretending to teach me about any of this. The only things we would be agreeing on are facts.

I don't want to argue anymore. This is no small container. I have good diversity....fungus, springtails, rove beetles, predatory nematodes, soil mites, bacteria, bacterial eating nematodes, predatory mites, protozoa, mycellium, lactobacillus. These complete the circle. It can be achieved in a 25g. This is 200g.

 

[Organikz]

If controlled even fungus gnat are part of the food web. They are chompers. As you can see this covers decomposes, grazers, and predators

And the purpose of mulch is to keep even moisture at the soil surface. Not wet but moist like you achieve with the ladies...haha just bust in your balls. I'm sure you put it to em. This sustains this web. Most microbiology exists in the top 3" of soil. You don't want to dry it out and kill them. A dry up is a no till beds death.

Believe me it happened to me before. Lots of compost/kelp slurries had to be done to restore soil microbiology.

Wikipedia is a decent source. It is at least a preface to further research. Citing is provided. Probably not a good source for pop culture news.

Keep in mind I don't have runoff. There is also a 1" layer of pumice at the bottom of my container.

 

[firstcitizen]

Calm down and smoke some pot .

The fact that we can share information and knowledge just a moment away is something amazing.
People need to share more knowledge to develop humanity. We need to talk and discussing more this will help us finding the truth. (the key from the tent)
There has always been a clutter of information, but you can to look at different points of view and different sources to find the truth about themselves.
I love videos it is like bites knowledge. I love to learn information from other people.(farmers) This is a clean transfer of knowledge. I owe a lot to this forum and farmers on this site about the transferred knowledge. I have learned from here for years and every day I learn something new.
I really learn with practice, but I also love to read paper books. The mind of old books makes me crazy. I simply assimilate the information in a different way.

Knowledge changed me, changed my point of view, changed my way of life...keep growing

 

[Organikz]

We have our moments but @MIMedGrower and i see through different opinions. My mom was a hippie ornamental tree nursery greenhouse manager. His family was botanists.

So you can see the preprogrammed thinking differs. I'm an open minded day tripper. He's a scientist in need of hard copy. However science is still opinion based on observation. Science has been disproved and altered time and time again especially regarding nature. Is the earth flat? Does the sun revolve around the earth? That big bright thing in the sky wont come up unless i sacrifice a virgin. Don't cling to ideas. It's not always that simple.

Masanobu mocks scientist as they focus on single brush strokes to the masterpiece we call nature.