Which way to go.....upgrade time is near.

[ttystikk]

Ok....easy there ttys! Let's keep it friendly in here. We all have our own opinions on things. I can see where masta doesn't like all the plumbing involved. While I am not a plumber.....I have learned enough over the last 4 years to where I feel comfortable setting something like this up.

I think I am sold on the benefits of chilling. The biggest point for me is one unit will cool three rooms.

I think instead of bringing my 5ton chiller inside during the winter....I will hook up a radiator with a fan coming from the return line before it goes back to the chiller, sort of like what woodsmaneh has done. This will not only heat up my living space, but it should remove heat from the water before it goes back to the chiller....making things even more efficient. I would DIY the rooms like woods has done.....but I like the fact that the air handlers dehumidify as well.

First, I made no personal attacks. Second, I used an obvious literary technique to list the points. Third, I waited until something like the third wildly inaccurate posting about chilling before I did it. See? I was a good boy, I showed restraint- I didn't call him any names- I didn't question his intelligence, just his 'facts'.

On with the discussion; I used irrigation fittings, flexible plastic line and hose clamps. Most plumbers I know use pvc or copper. Since we've all used these before, I'm pretty sure we have the necessary skills to install a chiller.

Neither Woodsman nor I heat our homes the way you suggest, because a chiller ejects heat from its radiator, which is part of the unit. The radiator you see Woods using is for cooling his growroom.

I agree that moving a 5 ton chiller around twice a year isn't practical. I get away with it because I have a 2 ton chiller and it's a portable window mountable unit. I would suggest some way to capture the output air from your chiller and bringing it inside in the winter, though this will be very, very DRY. Other options include choosing a couple of smaller chillers like my ChillKing unit, or going full-on with a heat pump.

By the way, I'll be experimenting with a heat pump next. Since the output water temp is up to 120 degrees F, I'm thinking it can not only be used to heat water, but how about a hot tub? Put a water to water heat exchanger in the tub plumbing, and when you have excess heat, just turn the jets on! My hot tub has a 4500W heater. That's just about the amount of heat my system needs to shed at peak output... I think I see another opportunity to save money and LIVE LARGE!

 

[ttystikk]

Bottom line is this, for those who are reading this thread with an eye to improving their own setup; I'm not a breeder, so I don't give breeding advice. I'm only an average grower so far, so I discuss the basics and let Capulator talk about trees- while I take copious notes and learn all I can!

What I do better than most other people, and thus the way I feel I can best contribute to those reading this website, is through my expertise in finding the best equipment for our purposes and installing it in a way that maximizes its benefits. I've been on this site for years and I'm pretty sure those who have known me for awhile will vouch for my credibility. I argue passionately for my points, because I know they will help YOU, dear reader.

I'm not discussing water chilling from a theoretical standpoint here. I, like Woodsman and plenty of others here, LIVE the reality of improved cooling through chiller technology. If this site's mantra for yields is 'pics or it didn't happen', then surely you'll accept the opinions of those who USE chilling over those who just talk about it?

 

[CelticEBE]

Neither Woodsman nor I heat our homes the way you suggest, because a chiller ejects heat from its radiator, which is part of the unit. The radiator you see Woods using is for cooling his growroom.

But in theory this is totally possible correct? Since the return line water is hot, if I have it going through a radiator with a fan behind it, it should produce heat...and cool down the water returning to the chiller.

 

[ttystikk]

But in theory this is totally possible correct? Since the return line water is hot, if I have it going through a radiator with a fan behind it, it should produce heat...and cool down the water returning to the chiller.

Nonono, the return water is only a few degrees warmer than the cold supply, and thus not nearly enough to make your home comfortable. You need a separate circuit; if that circuit is a freon to air radiator, your unit is called a 'chiller', and if that circuit is freon to water, it's called a 'heat pump'. Otherwise, the two systems are basically similar in design, approach and operation.

 

[CelticEBE]

So the water coming out of two 4 ton water cooled air handlers and a 2.5 ton water cooled air handler is only going to be a few degrees warmer than the water going in?

 

[woodsmaneh]

If you can cut plastic pipe and use hose clamps you're a plumber as far as chillers go. Yes you can use pipe and glue ect but not if you're not comfortable with it.

 

[We Solidarity]

for the record ~ if I was building out home setups I would totally rock a chiller/handler combo, maybe even just the 8in iceboxes modified to catch condensation, so I could run only one per 2000W with colder water to take advantage of the dehumidification. For less than 8,000K it without a doubt seems more than worth it, especially if you're living in the space. But for anything more, I see the initial overhead being too much to cover energy savings costs, especially since you're fairly limited on what chillers fit indoors once you get past 2 tons. Plus, if you live in a cold environment, and can't run a flip or bring your chiller indoors in the winter, you have to figure out how to heat your room during lights out, and in either of those situations it's a lot to think both about and pay for.

 

[ttystikk]

for the record ~ if I was building out home setups I would totally rock a chiller/handler combo, maybe even just the 8in iceboxes modified to catch condensation, so I could run only one per 2000W with colder water to take advantage of the dehumidification. For less than 8,000K it without a doubt seems more than worth it, especially if you're living in the space. But for anything more, I see the initial overhead being too much to cover energy savings costs, especially since you're fairly limited on what chillers fit indoors once you get past 2 tons. Plus, if you live in a cold environment, and can't run a flip or bring your chiller indoors in the winter, you have to figure out how to heat your room during lights out, and in either of those situations it's a lot to think both about and pay for.

Bro, the recent innovation in chiller technology was their DOWN-sizing. The bigger you scale, the better it compares, even from an up front cost standpoint. Are you seriously going to think that bending up yards of big sheet metal ducting is going to be cheaper or better than hoses full of cold water? Plus, once the water reaches its destination, it's actually easier to use it to precisely manage temperature, due to its constant availability and high thermal capacity.

 

[We Solidarity]

Are you seriously going to think that bending up yards of big sheet metal ducting is going to be cheaper or better than hoses full of cold water?

I never said that...but now that I think of it, yes. It will without a doubt be cheaper, seeing as how I wouldn't use hoses, I'd actually do it right and use galvanized piping. Oh yeah, I forgot I have to insulate all of that too. And neither ducting or running water lines is really the issue - the issue is, what do you do when it's -17 outside? Run a flip and exhaust your rooms into eachother? Install propane heaters in each room? should I just bring all 18 10 ton chillers off the roof and throw them inside?

 

[ttystikk]

I never said that...but now that I think of it, yes. It will without a doubt be cheaper, seeing as how I wouldn't use hoses, I'd actually do it right and use galvanized piping. Oh yeah, I forgot I have to insulate all of that too. And neither ducting or running water lines is really the issue - the issue is, what do you do when it's -17 outside? Run a flip and exhaust your rooms into eachother? Install propane heaters in each room? should I just bring all 18 10 ton chillers off the roof and throw them inside?

Insulated lines are far cheaper than air ducting. And what clinches things it's that with ac, you're not done yet- you still need to buy dehumidifiers AND chillers for rdwc, so don't forget those.

Yes, run your rooms on a flip style schedule, by all means that's the best way and yes exhaust air from one room to the next... and be aware that the 'cold' wager is actually only 60 or so. My night temps go this low and it doesn't seem to hurt anything.

People use propane headers to add co2 all the time. Running them at night wouldn't be helpful.

Bottom line? Unless your op is very temporary, you'll be much further ahead with chilling.

 

[woodsmaneh]

I never said that...but now that I think of it, yes. It will without a doubt be cheaper, seeing as how I wouldn't use hoses, I'd actually do it right and use galvanized piping. Oh yeah, I forgot I have to insulate all of that too. And neither ducting or running water lines is really the issue - the issue is, what do you do when it's -17 outside? Run a flip and exhaust your rooms into eachother? Install propane heaters in each room? should I just bring all 18 10 ton chillers off the roof and throw them inside?

For those who can't bring there chillers inside you just build a capture box in front of the chiller with a fan and blow the hot exhaust air back into your home. Dam weed smokers can solve any problem, just give them enough to smoke lol....

 

[CelticEBE]

For those who can't bring there chillers inside you just build a capture box in front of the chiller with a fan and blow the hot exhaust air back into your home. Dam weed smokers can solve any problem, just give them enough to smoke lol....

That's what I was planning. See post #40. ttys said that it wouldn't work though.....that the temps on the return would only be a few degrees warmer than the incoming water.

 

[ttystikk]

That's what I was planning. See post #40. ttys said that it wouldn't work though.....that the temps on the return would only be a few degrees warmer than the incoming water.

No, I said the water in the return from cooling rooms will only be a few degrees warmer than the cold supply. Woods is not suggesting you use that at all- he's talking about building ductwork to capture the hot air being blown through the back of the compressor section of the chiller.

This will work, but it will create extremely dry conditions inside your home. Static shock to light your grow op, craziness...

 

[mastacheeser]

No personal attacks but tty your posts make me wanna pull my hair out.

You can type shit on forums all you want but I'm not gunna listen to any of it unless you stop sounding like a condescending douche

No personal attacks though

 

[ttystikk]

No personal attacks but tty your posts make me wanna pull my hair out.

You can type shit on forums all you want but I'm not gunna listen to any of it unless you stop sounding like a condescending douche

No personal attacks though

Whatever. When I'm mistaken I take it like a man, I don't whine and call people names like you just did. I'm holding you accountable for your facts- which in the case of water cooling, are anything but straight.

 

[sixstring]

boy you watercooler guys are a serious bunch :eek: and yes I read all 3 pages of this.some folks just are not ok with all that water in a room full of live power running everywhere.i thought about chilling and my #1 concern was/is a water line break when im gone.i leave my op a lot and my overhead a/c lets me sleep at night.what about a grow like mine where you cant bring it inside?my grow is above ground and not part of my house. im in the market for a newer setup as I have expanded beyond the capabilities of my old unit,and what really appeals to me right now is the new style mini splits that do it all.heat/cool/dehumid.one thing you guys overlook on the new mini splits is portability.these new units are small,and a lot come with quick connect linesets so you DONT need help installing them from a hvac guy.im also in the lucky ones crowd,one of my patients is my hvac guy:)

 

[ttystikk]

boy you watercooler guys are a serious bunch :eek: and yes I read all 3 pages of this.some folks just are not ok with all that water in a room full of live power running everywhere.i thought about chilling and my #1 concern was/is a water line break when im gone.i leave my op a lot and my overhead a/c lets me sleep at night.what about a grow like mine where you cant bring it inside?my grow is above ground and not part of my house. im in the market for a newer setup as I have expanded beyond the capabilities of my old unit,and what really appeals to me right now is the new style mini splits that do it all.heat/cool/dehumid.one thing you guys overlook on the new mini splits is portability.these new units are small,and a lot come with quick connect linesets so you DONT need help installing them from a hvac guy.im also in the lucky ones crowd,one of my patients is my hvac guy:)

A minisplit is easy to set up once; after that, you'll need an hvac tech like any other ac system.

I've been running my water cooled system and at no time have I ever had more than a slow seep of a leak from it. I've flooded shit with my RDWC systems a lot more than that! Much of the reason for its reliability is that once it's up and running, there is very little need to constantly mess with it. Thus, it's left alone to do its job and it does... well.

One disadvantage to water cooling is that it tends to be a more permanent installation in a facility than most renters/lessees are comfortable with.

OTOH, once you do take the plunge, the possibilities for efficiency gains come out of the woodwork.

 

[sixstring]

So lets say im running dirt only and also running 9000 watts for flower.i do not want to build anything more outside or put anymore holes in my exterior walls to accommodate the new unit.can I run a 2 or 3 ton chiller inside this space just to cool my room and lights? All light fixtures are cooltubes broke down to 4 tubes or less per run and they are all closed loop, outside to outside air.i could vent the heat from the chiller outside in summer and keep it inside during the winter but not if that air will have smell or take my co2 out with it.this is why im looking at minis.

 

[woodsmaneh]

No, I said the water in the return from cooling rooms will only be a few degrees warmer than the cold supply. Woods is not suggesting you use that at all- he's talking about building ductwork to capture the hot air being blown through the back of the compressor section of the chiller.

This will work, but it will create extremely dry conditions inside your home. Static shock to light your grow op, craziness...

Have a humidifier on the main furnace, but your right about the static. I think there is a video on youtube with some guys making oil with alcohol and a static spark sets his moms kitchen on fire.

boy you watercooler guys are a serious bunch :eek: and yes I read all 3 pages of this.some folks just are not ok with all that water in a room full of live power running everywhere.i thought about chilling and my #1 concern was/is a water line break when im gone.i leave my op a lot and my overhead a/c lets me sleep at night.what about a grow like mine where you cant bring it inside?my grow is above ground and not part of my house. im in the market for a newer setup as I have expanded beyond the capabilities of my old unit,and what really appeals to me right now is the new style mini splits that do it all.heat/cool/dehumid.one thing you guys overlook on the new mini splits is portability.these new units are small,and a lot come with quick connect linesets so you DONT need help installing them from a hvac guy.im also in the lucky ones crowd,one of my patients is my hvac guy:)

I line my rooms with EDPM, pond liner. I do the math to see how high up the wall I need to go and put it in, just like a swimming pool. All my electricity is 5 feet from the floor and I have gfi protection on everything. I have no electrical devices on the floor except pumps which are water proof. All most all my electrical is outside in big dog houses, I do this as it all generates heat and I don't need it in the rooms. I have never had a hose failure, we don't deal with high pressure and use good quality products. I had a pod crack and dump 170 gal in a room, only had to happen once, now the edpm catches everything and is very strong. Been walking and dirt and water growing in it for 9 years.

Yes us water guys are serious, but cool. We all get grumpy once in a while.

 

[CelticEBE]

One disadvantage to water cooling is that it tends to be a more permanent installation in a facility than most renters/lessees are comfortable with.

What do you mean by this ttys? Running two lines of pvc through the walls perhaps?

Have a humidifier on the main furnace, but your right about the static. I think there is a video on youtube with some guys making oil with alcohol and a static spark sets his moms kitchen on fire.



I line my rooms with EDPM, pond liner. I do the math to see how high up the wall I need to go and put it in, just like a swimming pool. All my electricity is 5 feet from the floor and I have gfi protection on everything. I have no electrical devices on the floor except pumps which are water proof. All most all my electrical is outside in big dog houses, I do this as it all generates heat and I don't need it in the rooms. I have never had a hose failure, we don't deal with high pressure and use good quality products. I had a pod crack and dump 170 gal in a room, only had to happen once, now the edpm catches everything and is very strong. Been walking and dirt and water growing in it for 9 years.

Yes us water guys are serious, but cool. We all get grumpy once in a while.

I saw that video....freaking hilarious. That kid is all super gangster hard til the fire....then he screams like a little girl!

The pond liner is a great idea, and I may go that route at some point if I have a flood from water cooling, or if I start to run RDWC. I have used water cooled CO2 for 4 years now....and have never had a leak.

On another note, my Banks 5 ton is on the way. I will be setting it up and doing a thread once everything is up and running.