White Widow 400w Grow.

[Thejoeybrown]

I’ve noticed over the last few days what appear to be the early stages of N toxicity. This started a few days after I began full strength res mixes. And it seems to only be effecting #2&3. This leads me to believe I’m over feeding just a hair. I added 3 gallons of RO water to the res. This brought the EC from 1.6-2.0, to a solid 1.4 (800-1000ppm, down to 700ppm). I’ll see if there is any improvement. If not I’ll go a little lower. I still have the ability to add more feedings in per day if I need to as the EC drops. I’m now off script with regards to the bottle. That’s ok though. I’m more interested in listening to the plants than following bottle schedules anyway. I figure if I’m overreacting I can alway just bump it back up.

What do you guys think? Did I do the right thing or am I overreacting?

Hey bro are you still running the sensi ph perfect?
Are you adjusting the ph while using it?

 

[Enforcer]

Hey bro are you still running the sensi ph perfect?
Are you adjusting the ph while using it?

Yes, and yes/no. This last res change a few days ago, I didn’t add anything but full strength A+B and B-52. Ph was 6.3. Not sure what the hell that’s all about. They claim to hold ph at 5.7 for up to a week. But I left it alone anyway to give it a shot. Checked it again just now, 6.6. That’s no silicate, no non AN products, and RO water. I don’t like what I’m seeing with the plants, or the ph. That’s why today I diluted down to a 1.4 EC and yes, I ph corrected to 5.4, expecting a few points of upward drift over the next several hours. Which I have observed over the last several weeks of using their product. What do you think? Did you experience something similar?

 

[Thejoeybrown]

Yes, and yes/no. This last res change a few days ago, I didn’t add anything but full strength A+B and B-52. Ph was 6.3. Not sure what the hell that’s all about. They claim to hold ph at 5.7 for up to a week. But I left it alone anyway to give it a shot. Checked it again just now, 6.6. That’s no silicate, no non AN products, and RO water. I don’t like what I’m seeing with the plants, or the ph. That’s why today I diluted down to a 1.4 EC and yes, I ph corrected to 5.4, expecting a few points of upward drift over the next several hours. Which I have observed over the last several weeks of using their product. What do you think? Did you experience something similar?

I did. And j talked to many reps. The best advice I could give is what they gave me. Run it at full strength and DO NOT adjust the ph. They claim the buffers they use make the nutrients available at a much wider range. Adjusting the ph will throw it out of sorts
I too had a hard time with this. If just didn't make sense.
But I listened to them as I was not seeing improvement and once I stopped adjusting the ph and used my base full strength I got great results
My leaves were really twisty and curly like the one in your last pic but once I followed their advice it stopped

I have since switched nutrients to something I have more control over but j did have great results using ph perfect once I did what they said.
Try calling the rep. Just for some extra info. I bet you find it helpful

 

[Enforcer]

I did. And j talked to many reps. The best advice I could give is what they gave me. Run it at full strength and DO NOT adjust the ph. They claim the buffers they use make the nutrients available at a much wider range. Adjusting the ph will throw it out of sorts
I too had a hard time with this. If just didn't make sense.
But I listened to them as I was not seeing improvement and once I stopped adjusting the ph and used my base full strength I got great results
My leaves were really twisty and curly like the one in your last pic but once I followed their advice it stopped

I have since switched nutrients to something I have more control over but j did have great results using ph perfect once I did what they said.
Try calling the rep. Just for some extra info. I bet you find it helpful

Thanks man, how long after you stopped adjusting the ph did it improve? Did the bent tips straighten back out? I’m not impatient, I just want to make sure I give them enough time before making any changes again. I really appreciate your help on this. It’s very valuable to me to talk to someone that has actually used this stuff.

 

[Thejoeybrown]

Thanks man, how long after you stopped adjusting the ph did it improve? Did the bent tips straighten back out? I’m not impatient, I just want to make sure I give them enough time before making any changes again. I really appreciate your help on this. It’s very valuable to me to talk to someone that has actually used this stuff.

Within a week or so I noticed the new growth looking better
Buut... go with your gut. Get as much info as you can. Call the reps and tell them what's goin on and what they think. It's a whole different situation I'm just tellin ya my experience with the stuff.

 

[Irietime]

#1 and #5 side by side. Hard to believe they are from the same seed order and all cracked at the same time. I guess this is why we crack more seeds then we plan to run. Which plant would you rather grow out? ;)

#5 would be bigger if she wasn’t in a solo cup

 

[Enforcer]

Within a week or so I noticed the new growth looking better
Buut... go with your gut. Get as much info as you can. Call the reps and tell them what's goin on and what they think. It's a whole different situation I'm just tellin ya my experience with the stuff.

Gotcha, I’m not holding anyone responsible for what I decide to do. But I do appreciate you sharing your experience with this stuff.

 

[Thejoeybrown]

Gotcha, I’m not holding anyone responsible for what I decide to do. But I do appreciate you sharing your experience with this stuff.

No problem. I mean it goes against all common practice to run it full strength and not even check or adjust the ph. But this stuff from what they told me is designed thag way. I encourage you to call the number in the bottle. They're really helpful. Whether people like an or not it will help you understand them without people's bias involved.

 

[Enforcer]

#5 would be bigger if she wasn’t in a solo cup

Yes. I up potted #5 into a 1gal square pot and set her with a friend to finish. I wish them both well.

 

[Enforcer]

No problem. I mean it goes against all common practice to run it full strength and not even check or adjust the ph. But this stuff from what they told me is designed thag way. I encourage you to call the number in the bottle. They're really helpful. Whether people like an or not it will help you understand them without people's bias involved.

I will. I’ve already called them before for an unrelated question. The guys sounded like Cheech right after smoking a bowl, but he answered my question.

 

[Enforcer]

I called grower support and told them what’s up. Basically they said the same thing you did Joey (not that I didn’t believe you) don’t ph it because it’s designed with the additives, chelates, and surfactants to “feed” the plant from a ph of 4.0 to 8.0. So if my ph is anywhere between that I’m good he said. He also suggested I raise my temps. Currently 75*F lights on, about 62* off. He recommended 78-80* on, 70* off. He said give it 10 days to improve. I still don’t understand how the plants feeding will raise the ph in my res, with a DTW system, but that’s what he said. I’m going to leave it alone and give it 2 full res changes. I’ll bump up the fan thermostat which will help raise the temp when the lights are on. Won’t really do crap for lights off temps though. I think I’m going to up pot to the 3gal today too. I know you can grow trees in a 1gal, I just don’t have the experience for that yet, and I want to eliminate root bound as a possible issue. I topped the side branches on #1&2 a few days ago. They had 3 nodes and had reached the canopy. I haven’t seen any real growth since then, and they started showing this N toxicity. I’m wondering if they are root bound. Lots of roots poking out the drain holes. I can even see a few circling the bottom of the pot through the holes. I’ll take some root pics when I do the transplant.

 

[Newtogrowing]

Welcome to my 2nd grow. Learned a lot from my simultaneous indoor/outdoor grow I just finished. I think I'm going to stick with indoor from now on. So now I'm going to embrace indoor growing completely and I DIY'ed an auto drip system. (Yes, kicking hand watering to the curb only took one season.) I believe I have taken all environmental factors into account, and made as close to an ideal grow space for them as I can. Now on to the grow details. These are White Widow feminized seeds from growers choice seeds. Seeds were sprouted on 9/22. I'm considering veg beginning 10/1. I plan to veg them for 5 weeks and it's an 8 week strain. I cracked 5 seeds and these are the strongest 3. They spent their first week under t5s, and I'm putting them under a very high and dimmed 400w MH light(to 250w) today. I'll be using Advanced Nutrients PH perfect Sensi Coco Grow/Bloom A&B, B-52, VooDoo juice, Big Bud, and Overdrive. I'll also be using 35% H2O2 at a rate of 5ml per gallon, and SLF-100 at a rate of 2.5 ml per gallon, every res change. Current res EC=1.0-1.2, as measured with my trusty Truncheon. I did have to PH it myself down to 5.8 myself, measured with my Blue Lab PH pen. I think that's becasue I'm not using the nutes at full strength. The tent is located in my garage and is 3'x3'x6'. I'm using an air cooled hood with MH/HPS lighting. The drip system works by delivering nutrient solution to the plants for one minute feedings, up to 7 times a day. I can control the amount of solution they get by adjusting the amount of time and intervals the pump is on, as well as adjusting the ball valve to each dripper at the manifold. The solution is oxygenated, and temperature controlled (aquarium heater) to 68*f. The run off is collected in saucers fill with Hydroton. The plants sit on top of the Hydroton so they're not in standing water. The run off drains to the sump, built into the platform I made for the tent to sit on. I needed the hight to make gravity work for me, but I didn't have the space inside the tent to raise the plants up 10"....so I raised the entire tent. Then a sump pump kicks on once a day and pumps the run off into a catch res that gets dumped. The catch res is the same size as my main res, so there is no chance of an overfill. Essentially, a drain to waste system. I will employ LST, topping, lollypoping, and SCROGing. Happy to talk about this stuff with you all. And most definitely...Happy Growing.

Nice setup..

 

[Thejoeybrown]

I called grower support and told them what’s up. Basically they said the same thing you did Joey (not that I didn’t believe you) don’t ph it because it’s designed with the additives, chelates, and surfactants to “feed” the plant from a ph of 4.0 to 8.0. So if my ph is anywhere between that I’m good he said. He also suggested I raise my temps. Currently 75*F lights on, about 62* off. He recommended 78-80* on, 70* off. He said give it 10 days to improve. I still don’t understand how the plants feeding will raise the ph in my res, with a DTW system, but that’s what he said. I’m going to leave it alone and give it 2 full res changes. I’ll bump up the fan thermostat which will help raise the temp when the lights are on. Won’t really do crap for lights off temps though. I think I’m going to up pot to the 3gal today too. I know you can grow trees in a 1gal, I just don’t have the experience for that yet, and I want to eliminate root bound as a possible issue. I topped the side branches on #1&2 a few days ago. They had 3 nodes and had reached the canopy. I haven’t seen any real growth since then, and they started showing this N toxicity. I’m wondering if they are root bound. Lots of roots poking out the drain holes. I can even see a few circling the bottom of the pot through the holes. I’ll take some root pics when I do the transplant.

Awesome bro I'm glad you called. I always tell people to call and hear it from them cus it actually helped my outcome with those nutes but it sounds so crazy I know people are reading my post like wtf is he saying. Lol

 

[Enforcer]

Nice setup..

Thanks! I tried to cover as many bases as I could.

 

[Enforcer]

Awesome bro I'm glad you called. I always tell people to call and hear it from them cus it actually helped my outcome with those nutes but it sounds so crazy I know people are reading my post like wtf is he saying. Lol

I heard it from them, and I’m still having trouble with it. I don’t think I like this “Jesus, take the wheel” approach to what’s going on in my res. I’m going to give them their shot. But even if it works out well, I’m not sure I’ll use it again. Your input as a felllow grower has been invaluable. Good form sir! (poor imitation English accent).

 

[Thejoeybrown]

I heard it from them, and I’m still having trouble with it. I don’t think I like this “Jesus, take the wheel” approach to what’s going on in my res. I’m going to give them their shot. But even if it works out well, I’m not sure I’ll use it again. Your input as a felllow grower has been invaluable. Good form sir! (poor imitation English accent).

Yep. That's exactly how I felt. I finished that run and switched to botanicare Cns 17. Super simple super stable. I love it

 

[Enforcer]

Got #2 transplanted. Then I realized I need another brick of coco (damn it). I’ll get it and up pot #1&3 tomorrow. I used VAM mycorrhizae. After she was in the pot, I watered in with a tablespoon per/gal of Roots Organics Extreme Serine. Here’s the root pics of #2. I think they look good...

 

[Newtogrowing]

Got #2 transplanted. Then I realized I need another brick of coco (damn it). I’ll get it and up pot #1&3 tomorrow. I used VAM mycorrhizae. After she was in the pot, I watered in with a tablespoon per/gal of Roots Organics Extreme Serine. Here’s the root pics of #2. I think they look good...

They look nice and healthy!!

 

[Enforcer]

Got #1&3 transplanted into the 3gal pots. I did the same routine as I did for #2. I think they looked good. I also put them under the SCRoG. I’ll lollipop after they have been under there a bit. Thanks guys for stopping by and posting your thoughts. It helps me get better as a grower, and I appreciate it.

First two are #1, second two are #3.

 

[Newtogrowing]

Got #1&3 transplanted into the 3gal pots. I did the same routine as I did for #2. I think they looked good. I also put them under the SCRoG. I’ll lollipop after they have been under there a bit. Thanks guys for stopping by and posting your thoughts. It helps me get better as a grower, and I appreciate it.

First two are #1, second two are #3.

Looking real good!!