Wise and knowledgeable expert advise for DWC at altitude.

IamN2pot · Jan 25, 2023

While I wait for advise from @steamroller and more parts from Amazon, here is what I have so far. The return drain lines are ready to connect. Yes, I put the resevoir in the tent and before you have issues, I will be running one of the 1/10hp, 40 gallon chillers outside the tent to keep the water in the 68*-70*(?) range. I had to decide between the ease of the build, legnth and number of connections with the central location verses putting the resevoir outside the tent and all the additional plumbing that requires, especially getting those return lines up, over and through a tent vent or cutting a hole into the tent to run the return lines through. I may wish in hind sight that I did it the other way, so I am designing it with that as a plan B, if the chiller can't handle it.

In the picture, the hose across the top of the resevoir will come out the sides and Tee off that line and into the 4 buckets. I've already leak tested all of the return 1" bulkheads, but I can't drill and assemble the feed lines until I get the top hat gasket inserts arrive from Amazon. Also have 1/2" barb connectors and large, 2x4" airstones ordered, 2 per bucket. THis is starting to get fun!!!!

steamroller · Jan 25, 2023

You want to look into Jeboa DC pumps.

Amazon.com

^^ That is pumps taken from this page with powerheads and gyres^^^

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I always oversize pumps as any piece of equipment should never be run at 100% and like to leave myself room for growth without need to buy new equipment when possible.
This line of water pumps/circulators and gyres is China best rip of fine German engineering at a third the cost.
You'll need a second pump IF you need to run the chiller.
That you can size according to chiller specs.

IamN2pot · Jan 29, 2023

Thanks for the pump recomendation @steamroller. It's on my list now.

I'm starting to look at which nute line to use. I know @Moe.Red recomends the Jack's line, so that where I started looking. Would the Pure & Simple kit, here, be the best starting point? I'll be using RO water, so what else should I add to the kit for a first DWC grow?
Thanks again for your help!

Moe.Red · Jan 29, 2023

IamN2pot said:
Thanks for the pump recomendation @steamroller. It's on my list now.

I'm starting to look at which nute line to use. I know @Moe.Red recomends the Jack's line, so that where I started looking. Would the Pure & Simple kit, here, be the best starting point? I'll be using RO water, so what else should I add to the kit for a first DWC grow?
Thanks again for your help!

That jacks link is good. You will also want Epsom Salt. Nothing fancy just make sure it is pure. Walgreens likes to sneak in perfumes and stuff on some bags.

Fulvic or Humic acid is a nice to have. Gets expensive tho, so judgement call.

I forget if you are live or sterile. Either way there are cheap test strips at amazon for H2O2 level or aquarium 7 in 1 test strips to watch the bacteria and hardness and stuff. Again, nice to have not necessary.

I like to use a silica based product as a buffer since you are starting with RO. Do you have anything like that or need recommendations?

PH Up and Down or a plan to make your own if you are feeling froggy.

If you want to ease into this and make it super easy, the GH flora trio is super easy to use in place of Jacks. Just please stay away from advanced nutrients. If you go with Jacks or another dry system you will want a good scale and measuring tools for mixing, Chances are you already have this stuff. If you are feeling like you want to really get set up nice, the 1.5 or 2.5 galllon drink containers at amazon make it really easy to pre mix nutes then pull off the exact amount you want into a 50ml beaker.

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IamN2pot · Jan 29, 2023

Moe.Red said:
That jacks link is good. You will also want Epsom Salt. Nothing fancy just make sure it is pure. Walgreens likes to sneak in perfumes and stuff on some bags.

I also was looking at Jack's 321, if that's nearly as easy and better. I found all the nutes on Amazon for a few $ less that Jack's site and the 321 is only $10 more than the Plain and Simple kit. ..amd yeah, I've got Epsom salt from my SuperSoil building.

I forget if you are live or sterile.

Live is what you recomended, so that's what I'll start with. I think that means I need some Great White or AG something???

I like to use a silica based product as a buffer since you are starting with RO. Do you have anything like that or need recommendations?

No, don't have any. So definantly need recomendations???

PH Up and Down or a plan to make your own if you are feeling froggy.

I'm dealing with Chloramine, so I've been using tap run through a catalytic carbon water filter (BuggieBrew) and pH down with either lemon juice or L-Ascorbic acid powder. Ribbitt.... ribbitt.....

If you want to ease into this and make it super easy, the GH flora trio is super easy to use in place of Jacks. Just please stay away from advanced nutrients. If you go with Jacks or another dry system you will want a good scale and measuring tools for mixing, Chances are you already have this stuff. If you are feeling like you want to really get set up nice, the 1.5 or 2.5 galllon drink containers at amazon make it really easy to pre mix nutes then pull off the exact amount you want into a 50ml beaker.

Deffinantly want to ease into this, but I would rather stay away from GH as that's what I used with my veggie grow. I love 'white' roots, not pink brown and green, or what ever those colors are. I also want to go with the dry nutes. LOL, I hate even paying for bottled 'drinking' water. That's why I have a RO. ...ok, off my soap box!
...thanks for the advice on the cooler and as you suspected, I have plenty of scales, measuring cups and pipetts...
N2

Moe.Red · Feb 1, 2023

I'm starting to feel weird about this thread title and answering, there is stuff I know and stuff I'm still learning myself. Jacks is something I am still learning. Last night I changed it all up (you can see what I did in the Fogpoincs thread) and I converted it into a GH like liquid product to do top offs via beakers and using hydro buddy. This endeavor is new to me, just trying to streamline things.

This is what I am running:

The end goal will be to add programmatically using peristaltic pumps and a little logic.

I can say that these nutes have shown promise for me, but I am still very much in the try things and see stage.

In that same thread I am doing some testing on biologics. You can see the petri dishes with different things growing. My early advice would be to use Orca.

Silica is a great product to buffer (it raises PH, then you counter with PH down to get it in range. The 2 working against each other work to stabilize the water PH. You can go cheap and buy powdered or pre mixed like silicium

Amazon.com

I have that, and it is really expensive. I do not see a $139 benefit personally and it actually makes my res foamy. So when I run out I'm going back to

Amazon.com

Potassium Silicate. It will take you a lifetime to use a pound.

BTW, GH does not color your roots. These roots were grown in GH

We can get into that if you want.

IamN2pot · Feb 1, 2023

Moe.Red said:
BTW, GH does not color your roots. These roots were grown in GH

Shows how little I know. In would have sworn that using color coded nutes, in general, would color the roots. THanks for setting me straight on that.

...and as far as using GH product line, I don't have anything against them, except perhaps what @SweetLeafGrow said, they don't really support cannabis growers. In short, I'm open to recomendations.
Now that premix setup of jugs you have for the Jack's is SWEET. Thanks for the picture.
I'm also having fun this morning, boring holes into lids.

smokedareefer · Feb 1, 2023

Moe.Red said:
I'm starting to feel weird about this thread title and answering, there is stuff I know and stuff I'm still learning myself. Jacks is something I am still learning. Last night I changed it all up (you can see what I did in the Fogpoincs thread) and I converted it into a GH like liquid product to do top offs via beakers and using hydro buddy. This endeavor is new to me, just trying to streamline things.

This is what I am running:

The end goal will be to add programmatically using peristaltic pumps and a little logic.

I can say that these nutes have shown promise for me, but I am still very much in the try things and see stage.

In that same thread I am doing some testing on biologics. You can see the petri dishes with different things growing. My early advice would be to use Orca.

Silica is a great product to buffer (it raises PH, then you counter with PH down to get it in range. The 2 working against each other work to stabilize the water PH. You can go cheap and buy powdered or pre mixed like silicium

Amazon.com

I have that, and it is really expensive. I do not see a $139 benefit personally and it actually makes my res foamy. So when I run out I'm going back to

Amazon.com

Potassium Silicate. It will take you a lifetime to use a pound.

BTW, GH does not color your roots. These roots were grown in GH

We can get into that if you want.

Does the potassium silicate stay suspended enough to be used in a auto doser?

Moe.Red · Feb 1, 2023

smokedareefer said:
Does the potassium silicate stay suspended enough to be used in an auto doser?

Good question. I can test that for you but think it does.

Moe.Red · Feb 1, 2023

IamN2pot said:
Shows how little I know. In would have sworn that using color coded nutes, in general, would color the roots. THanks for setting me straight on that.

...and as far as using GH product line, I don't have anything against them, except perhaps what @SweetLeafGrow said, they don't really support cannabis growers. In short, I'm open to recomendations.
Now that premix setup of jugs you have for the Jack's is SWEET. Thanks for the picture.
I'm also having fun this morning, boring holes into lids.
View attachment 1325823

I’m not in love with gh eitger. I think they are owned by Monsanto.

Let’s figure out jacks.

smokedareefer · Feb 1, 2023

Moe.Red said:
Good question. I can test that for you but think it does.

I went with a auto doser 2 years ago and i wasn't sure so ive been using bottled ph up

Moe.Red · Feb 1, 2023

smokedareefer said:
I went with a auto doser 2 years ago and i wasn't sure so ive been using bottled ph up

What’s good about silica is that it can be helpful in your grow. Stronger stalks support bigger buds. But I don’t run it to the end of flower. That said by the end the ph trend is almost always downward so you do need something. Ph up works good without loading flowers up with silica.

IamN2pot · Feb 1, 2023

Moe.Red said:
I’m not in love with gh eitger. I think they are owned by Monsanto.

Let’s figure out jacks.

Love it. Jack's it is! I'll get it ordered in the next few days.

Moe.Red · Feb 1, 2023

IamN2pot said:
Love it. Jack's it is! I'll get it ordered in the next few days.

Cool. I'll tag you in on my other thread when I get to the good stuff with Jack's.

IamN2pot · Feb 7, 2023

Moe.Red said:
Cool. I'll tag you in on my other thread when I get to the good stuff with Jack's.

Alright. I've got my Jack's 321 ordered along with the Truenute Potassium Silicate and Orca Moe recomended. So while I'm waiting for all the nutes to arrive, and the temps to warm up, I'm testing the RDWC system. Hopefully by March 1st.
The 1" return lines don't have any trouble with the Hydrofarm 400 submersable. I plugged 3 of the 4 lines, after the video, and the return still was able to easily keep up with the input flow. SWEET!. Now as for root problems???? I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I'm thinking if/when I have root clogging issues, I'll try a spillway return???

Your browser is not able to display this video.

Moe.Red · Feb 7, 2023

IamN2pot said:
Alright. I've got my Jack's 321 ordered along with the Truenute Potassium Silicate and Orca Moe recomended. So while I'm waiting for all the nutes to arrive, and the temps to warm up, I'm testing the RDWC system. Hopefully by March 1st.
The 1" return lines don't have any trouble with the Hydrofarm 400 submersable. I plugged 3 of the 4 lines, after the video, and the return still was able to easily keep up with the input flow. SWEET!. Now as for root problems???? I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I'm thinking if/when I have root clogging issues, I'll try a spillway return???
View attachment 1328527

Looks good, congrats on no leaks. That's not an easy feat on round buckets.

Whats gonna happen on the roots that could hurt you is the tap root will get sucked into the return line, and as it grows will clog it. I haven't done this on 1", but I'm sure you could come up with some sort of screen to prevent that. Maybe some plastic mesh like this from the craft store and some tywraps? Or maybe some sort of bioball arrangement to block the roots from getting in the pipe?

SweetLeafGrow · Feb 7, 2023

IamN2pot said:
Alright. I've got my Jack's 321 ordered along with the Truenute Potassium Silicate and Orca Moe recomended. So while I'm waiting for all the nutes to arrive, and the temps to warm up, I'm testing the RDWC system. Hopefully by March 1st.
The 1" return lines don't have any trouble with the Hydrofarm 400 submersable. I plugged 3 of the 4 lines, after the video, and the return still was able to easily keep up with the input flow. SWEET!. Now as for root problems???? I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I'm thinking if/when I have root clogging issues, I'll try a spillway return???
View attachment 1328527

Looking great bro! You did a fantastic job here

I'm surprised that pump is not putting out a stronger stream with that 400. Are those lines feeding the fallponic 3/4"?

I have an Active Aqua 400 gph pump going in my new system and would like a strong stream like I have in the single plant site version, which I think runs a 250. I may have to re-think that and go with a bigger pump. I'm using 3/4" lines for my fallponics.

IamN2pot · Feb 7, 2023

SweetLeafGrow said:
Looking great bro! You did a fantastic job here

I'm surprised that pump is not putting out a stronger stream with that 400. Are those lines feeding the fallponic 3/4"?

I have an Active Aqua 400 gph pump going in my new system and would like a strong stream like I have in the single plant site version, which I think runs a 250. I may have to re-think that and go with a bigger pump. I'm using 3/4" lines for my fallponics.

It's actually 1/2". I agree with you on a higher flow rate and want to try the Jebao DC pump that Steamroller recomended. I am concerned that in my system that the additional return flow may magnify any root clogging issues? Perhaps Moe or someone more knowledgable than I will weigh in on what benifits higher flow/recirculating rates have.

SLG, I read your post about your 'seed' dilima. Same here. I've got loads of regular seeds to pop. I'm sure there are more and probably better solutions, but I made 4, 3 hole lids, for a total of 12 plants. Since I can only have 12 plants at a time, that maxes me out and if I get my 50%, 6 gals from that, well, 2 would have to go into soil, and can you say mothers - hahaha. But I'll get up to 4 gals that I'll just pop them in their netpots into a single 3" hole lid.

SweetLeafGrow · Feb 7, 2023

IamN2pot said:
I am concerned that in my system that the additional return flow may magnify any root clogging issues?

One way to find out, for sure.

I think if you screen off your return lines as Moe suggested, that is going to help. Also keep them smaller, flip early. Looks tight in there anyway, you in a 4x4?

I'm no expert on fluid dynamics, mind you, but I would be surprised if 1/2" lines would over power 1" returns, especially the way you have things plumbed with each bucket hooked directly to the res. That could change of course if your lines were to become obstructed....cage em off I think you might be good to go.

Just my opinion, I think you are going to regret putting your res in the center like that, but keep em small and it should minimize difficulties getting in to do your work in the res.

Do you have a system monitor going in? Forgive me if you mentioned it previously.

IamN2pot · Feb 7, 2023

SweetLeafGrow said:
One way to find out, for sure.

I think if you screen off your return lines as Moe suggested, that is going to help. Also keep them smaller, flip early. Looks tight in there anyway, you in a 4x4?

I'm no expert on fluid dynamics, mind you, but I would be surprised if 1/2" lines would over power 1" returns, especially the way you have things plumbed with each bucket hooked directly to the res. That could change of course if your lines were to become obstructed....cage em off I think you might be good to go.

Just my opinion, I think you are going to regret putting your res in the center like that, but keep em small and it should minimize difficulties getting in to do your work in the res.

Do you have a system monitor going in? Forgive me if you mentioned it previously.

LOL, yeah, "One way to find out, for sure. " I am in a 4x4 tent, so 4 trees just ain't my idea of fun. As far as putting filters over the returns, yep! I like that square grid/honeycomb idea. Before I saw Moe's idea, I was thinking of a PVC pipe elbowed up to the water height desired and the bucket would fill to that point and overflow into the return up-pipe/spillway. That might keep the roots out? My other thought was to perforate a 8-10" piece of PVC to place across the bottom of the pot connected to the return bulkhead from the inside?
System monitor? yep, but budget restrictions led me to this one, but now I wonder if I should have spent another $20 and gotten this model? Here is a you tube review of it. And I always have my Bluelab pH pen to double check with.

Wise and knowledgeable expert advise for DWC at altitude.

Wise and knowledgeable expert advise for DWC at altitude.

IamN2pot

steamroller

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