Expecting a 'knock n talk'- now what?

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ttystikk

ttystikk

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Been almost a week now. Is your neighbor still talking/snooping around? Wondering if you are being watched or the whole thing has blown over. NT just had a close encounter in his car and can't believe they let him go. Thought for sure he was gonna get at least a duid based on what happened but they let him walk/drive away. Interesting thread until it got shut down. Thanks kolah.

The neighbor in question isn't terribly bright and he does stupid shit on a regular basis, which his wife and kids are then stuck in the position of explaining/apologizing for. It still makes him dangerous. This one seems to have blown over. IF I'm being watched, they're doing a bang up job of hiding it, because I know every car, every face and just about every noise for a full block in every direction- save down, perhaps, lol. Even then, I was the guy who saw natural gas leaks sprouting up through a neighbor's yard and called the gas company. Why? Something smelled... out of place.

I saw some of that thread- I think Sky High will get reinstated, they just have to keep up appearances. Ban Kolah permanently, he's pulled this shit too often. Besides, insult a man over his dead son, and WTF do you expect?!

NT's story was fascinating, and shows that 9 times out of 10, a cop is just trying to do his job. If you're cool to them, they will find ways to cut you a break; I got pulled over for speeding in Boulder a few summers ago, and I didn't have insurance. The cop could not let me go, he had to impound the car. I knew it, and remained calm, just asked for my backpack- and Coleman lunchbox, with 4 glass jars of my finest in it! He never asked to look, I'm certain because I treated him and his job with respect.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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I'm not sure if congratulations are in order (for working on the ordinance), but I do TOTALLY feel you on the smell thing. Out here there's also an issue with the viewshed--apparently cannabis is a VERY unattractive plant to look at.

'Viewshed'... Seriously? I wonder what they think of wind turbines. Surely THEY'RE fine, right?
 
Natural

Natural

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I've installed electric powered grid stuff under tile, embedded in the mortar. I've also seen 1,000's of sq ft done in an under the carpet situation in a condo set up. They lay something similar to PEX..looked like braided (re-inforced) clear hose. They snake it back and forth in loops and tie down with clamps (looks like electric wire holders). Then they literally pump gypcrete over the hose after a "water-tight" testing for leaks. Gypcrete is soft and will flex a bit over plywood and is meant for carpet or you can install tile with mortar right over. They filled with what looked like anti-freeze. The whole thing ran on pumps from an updated version of a radiator furnace. Extremely efficient for winters in the Blue Ridge Mtns. Quite fascinating..they called it "Radiant Heat".
 
waayne

waayne

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I have radiant heat in my home,it is quite efficient ,the only downside is that it takes 12-24 hours to warm up the house when it's first turned on in the Winter,but it is quite easy to avoid that by turning it on and setting the thermostats under 60 degrees until the first cold snap,then turn it up some......
The slab has the hose buried in concrete and where we wanted wood floors that floated(for yoga)
we used a product called Warm Board,here's the link to the manufacturer http://www.warmboard.com/

The toasty warm floors also feel really nice barefoot in the middle of Winter:)
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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I have radiant heat in my home,it is quite efficient ,the only downside is that it takes 12-24 hours to warm up the house when it's first turned on in the Winter,but it is quite easy to avoid that by turning it on and setting the thermostats under 60 degrees until the first cold snap,then turn it up some......
The slab has the hose buried in concrete and where we wanted wood floors that floated(for yoga)
we used a product called Warm Board,here's the link to the manufacturer http://www.warmboard.com/

The toasty warm floors also feel really nice barefoot in the middle of Winter:)

BOOM! I'm working with Whaley products, Inc. to prototype a small, low profile heat pump with dual circuits- one each for heating and cooling. In 'modern' heat pumps the system actually reverses itself and swaps the system back and forth between providing heat and cooling- not acceptable for our purposes!

So instead of 'heat pump', the term I'm instructed to use is 'water cooled process chilling', where water is used to cool the compressor section, and we want to maintain a specific temperature for the cold working fluid for our 'process'- and of course it's a chiller because that working fluid is water, as opposed to air.

Now that's out of the way, the actual unit is easy to understand; the cold side works just like we've always expected chillers to operate- it removes excess heat from water, and that water is then used to cool and dehumidify growing spaces AND chill RDWC systems. It could just as easily cool living spaces too- I know, because I've used mine for this purpose.

For some reason, I had trouble getting the tech. I was on the phone with to understand that I have as many plans for the HOT water side of things as I did for the cold water! I want to heat; the house, the outside fish tank, the hot water tank, the hot tub- and even the patio and driveway when I have them jacked out and repoured.

That warmboard website is exactly what I was looking for as a way to use the water to directly heat the home, without the need to piggyback on the gas/forced air system so common in this area.

The 'antifreeze looking stuff' WAS antifreeze, or at least a 50/50 mix of propylene glycol- this is 'RV antifreeze', aka 'food grade' because unlike standard antifreeze, it's non toxic. As you may have guessed, it is there to prevent damage from freezing- but it also helps raise heat transfer efficiency and it acts as a lubricant, helping to extend pump life.
 
Natural

Natural

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Actually was thinking about this since you mentioned it. There has been some killer breakthroughs..haven't heard much form the science community lately. So what's new and is it feasible?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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313
The feasibility of fuel cells is an era that has arrived. Between multiple types to choose from depending on application to a steady reduction of costs over time, the question now is what to do with them. One big innovation is the hydrogen reformer unit that converts your house supply of natural gas (or propane, butane, methane, etc) into pure hydrogen for use in the fuel cell. This drastically simplifies installation in most homes!

I say package one with a heat pump, sell them together as a unit, and watch your customers become your best marketing tool; "I don't get it; I went from paying $400 a month on gas and electric to GETTING a check FROM my utility company- and I use just as much power and my house is just as comfortable!"

By the way, fuel cells DO have emissions. They exhaust water vapor and CO². Anybody need any of that? LOL

As usual, we're playing catch-up to the Japanese already; in Japan, you can buy a Panasonic fuel cell cogeneration system that produces 200-700W, along with enough heat to heat a typical apartment. There is a long waiting list, as both power and heat are expensive on the islands.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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'Viewshed'... Seriously? I wonder what they think of wind turbines. Surely THEY'RE fine, right?
Yes, viewshed. This county is all kinda fucked up, and in ways I never would have conceived of all on my lonesome.
Ask me about fuel cells sometime... I dare ya, lol
So... what about those fuel cells? Years ago I was saying that H fuel cells just weren't viable, especially if we have to recreate an entire infrastructure to go that route. :D
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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Yes, viewshed. This county is all kinda fucked up, and in ways I never would have conceived of all on my lonesome.
So... what about those fuel cells? Years ago I was saying that H fuel cells just weren't viable, especially if we have to recreate an entire infrastructure to go that route. :D

Your fuel cell prayers have been answered! First, there half a dozen different types now, the two most promising for our purposes being the methanol fuel cell and the PEM types. The methanol fuel cell works by converting methanol into electricity in the presence of atmospheric oxygen. These can be made to be TINY, so you'll likely see it in cell phone power supplies and portable electronics first, although the technology scales just fine to bigger applications. Methanol can be easily made from lots of low quality plant matter- hence the name 'wood alcohol'- so I think this tech will be commonplace very soon.

PEM = Proton Exchange Membrane, this is the 'Ballard power' technology. This converts PURE hydrogen into electricity at up to 80% efficiency, and yet another 15% efficiency can be gained by reusing the waste heat. These hold the most promise for home based power cogeneration. The Achilles heel of PEM is that any contamination by materials other than hydrogen clogs up the membranes and kills the device. Therefore, very pure hydrogen is key to useful life span.

Enter the hydrogen reformer! This bit of kit is being installed on residential fuel cells in Japan already, and will doubtless be an integral part of the entire fuel cell adoption movement- because what it does is convert gaseous hydrocarbons, like natural gas, methane, butane, propane, etc, by stripping all the carbon away, leaving pure hydrogen to power the fuel cell. In other words, you'll hook it up to your gas line. HUGE, since guess what is going to be America's most abundant (therefore available AND affordable) fossil fuel for up to the next 200 years- yep, natural gas!

Ok, cool. Why should you care? Because depending on how the calculation is run, your basement fuel cell power plant will generate electricity at between 3 cents per kWh... and 0.3. It won't take long for THIS crowd to hit the unit's break even point at that rate! The power is the reason, the spare heat is the bonus. Heat your home, hot water, a hot tub, your outdoor aquaponics tank, etc etc... FREE. Just pipe the heat to where you want it.

I saved the most interesting potential synergy for last; back to that reformer for a moment. The fuel cell makes water vapor and nothing else. But wait- there's carbon in them thar natural gas molecules, so where'd they go? That tricky little reformer... it strips the hydrogen out and oxygenates the rest, so all that carbon comes out as... carbon dioxide. Produced as a byproduct of fuel cell cogeneration, it's a very pure and continuous source of the gas.

It's almost like they asked us what we want in a perfect power plant... it's here, it's mine, it makes all the power I want (provided you can afford the upfront cost), it makes electricity for pennies on the dollar, especially vs. PG & E or other major urban center power pricing, lasts for decades, basically zero maintenance- plus, it makes heat to warm your house AND CO².

Fuel cells, FOR THE WIN!

And yes, they are indeed good for the environment.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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So, who has more questions about fuel cells? The best price I've found online is roughly $5000/kWh, you have to get 10kW of installed capacity to get that price.

OTOH, a 10kW op uses between $1000-2500 a month depending on local billing rates, so I see a payback of less than three years. This compares very favorably with the industry average of 15 years to achieve break even on solar.
 
Dopegeist

Dopegeist

702
93
So... what about those fuel cells? Years ago I was saying that H fuel cells just weren't viable, especially if we have to recreate an entire infrastructure to go that route. :D

If only America already had an infrastructure in place that is capable of moving large quantities of liquids/gases efficiently???
I chide only because this is another one of the 'Anti' arguments that makes absolutely no sense? Natural gas is flammable and we pump that shit high pressure though thousands of miles of piping.
The tech for moving and storing as a less dangerous intermediate will come with the market.
How much innovation is ever achieved with gov't grants and institutions? Just enough to get the wheels moving and let the market take over.
Lots of innovative work on the storage and transport front, but with Barry in office now and Bush's NGNP (next generation nuclear plant) initiative getting as much media attention as his 'Hydrogen' economy (never got much to begin with, hear nothing now.....The established interests didn't want people to take sunlight and all that extra free juice they get and convert it into an easily stored gas that can be used in any modified 'internal combustion engine'.

I think the reactors are supposed to be operational in 2020's or 2030's ???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor

@Tystickk:
I see no real benefit in using hydrocarbons to produce Hydrogen, besides economics currently. Found this interesting site a while back. http://www.intpowertechcorp.com/scvsum.htm
Because if you are going to use the 'footprint' of your natural gas, it's more than just the stored content in the hydrocarbon, which people rarely take into account.
In the end, I think coupled with De-Salination plants will be the way to go for most people...For us perhaps coupled with CSP or GeoThermal....Because as we all know from Chemistry, as the temperature rises, the molecules become more actives, thus making it easier (less electricity) needed to break the bond.

I have yet to price out a DIY solar system, but the Utube vids show it ain't rocket science (just making the photocell is, but we can buy that). Otherwise, it's just a little soldering, tile setting, and pouring/shaking. Then what I don't use or store battery or sell back to grid, I could storage as Hydrogen.
 
Cort

Cort

1,444
163
BOOM! I'm working with Whaley products, Inc. to prototype a small, low profile heat pump with dual circuits- one each for heating and cooling. In 'modern' heat pumps the system actually reverses itself and swaps the system back and forth between providing heat and cooling- not acceptable for our purposes!

So instead of 'heat pump', the term I'm instructed to use is 'water cooled process chilling', where water is used to cool the compressor section, and we want to maintain a specific temperature for the cold working fluid for our 'process'- and of course it's a chiller because that working fluid is water, as opposed to air.

Now that's out of the way, the actual unit is easy to understand; the cold side works just like we've always expected chillers to operate- it removes excess heat from water, and that water is then used to cool and dehumidify growing spaces AND chill RDWC systems. It could just as easily cool living spaces too- I know, because I've used mine for this purpose.

For some reason, I had trouble getting the tech. I was on the phone with to understand that I have as many plans for the HOT water side of things as I did for the cold water! I want to heat; the house, the outside fish tank, the hot water tank, the hot tub- and even the patio and driveway when I have them jacked out and repoured.

That warmboard website is exactly what I was looking for as a way to use the water to directly heat the home, without the need to piggyback on the gas/forced air system so common in this area.

The 'antifreeze looking stuff' WAS antifreeze, or at least a 50/50 mix of propylene glycol- this is 'RV antifreeze', aka 'food grade' because unlike standard antifreeze, it's non toxic. As you may have guessed, it is there to prevent damage from freezing- but it also helps raise heat transfer efficiency and it acts as a lubricant, helping to extend pump life.
Sounds like you want to supersize a marine air conditioning unit.

They use an outside water source to remove heat from the unit. Im sure it could be changed to a closed loop and beefed up to support an antifreeze substance. Problem is, what about summer when the driveway is warm, how do you plan to remove heat from your chiller?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
Gonna be some expensive ass weed! Ha. You meant kW I'm sure.

Yes I did- Swype strikes again! OTOH, fuel cells prefer to run flat out, 100% all the time. Sell what you don't use back to the power co...
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
Jay Whaley
Whaley Products, Inc.
PO Box 817
526 Charlotte Ave
Burkburnett, TX 76354
[email protected]
www.waterchillersystems.com
Sounds like you want to supersize a marine air conditioning unit.

They use an outside water source to remove heat from the unit. Im sure it could be changed to a closed loop and beefed up to support an antifreeze substance. Problem is, what about summer when the driveway is warm, how do you plan to remove heat from your chiller?
 
urbanfog

urbanfog

1,121
163
couldnt you rig a second "summer" set up where you ran heat via a copper coil and reservior, or coil and fan to create a "evap cooler"? Sorry, you are way deeper than I at this point, so iff I r stoopid, feel free to enlighten me :)
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
The system you describe is known in the industry as 'water cooled process chilling', where the process requires a specific water temperature, in my case 55-60F. The water cooled part refers to the fact that heat is removed from the compressor section by means of water, in the same kind of exchanger coil as the cold side uses.

The design issue I'm trying to sort out now is how hot this hot side can be without causing the compressor to lose efficiency, and therefore what I can heat with it. If this hot side can run at 120F, that would be ideal for home hot water, home heating, hot tub, aquaponics fish tank, the whole show. If it can't be over 100F, then it won't be much good for anything but the fish tank.
 

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