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Night Owls In The Garden -a Club For Evening Gardeners

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Night Owls In The Garden -a Club For Evening Gardeners

KiLoEleMeNt 2,863 Replies 190,433 Views
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Auhhhhhhh hah stumped you all but I would like to again say sorry for my late response to the threads as stated in my post the other day I'm getting the half of the posting until 30 40 minutes later. I would also like to say that believe it or not altho in don't leave me gardens much i am a fairly busy guy constantly nose deep in a book or sniffing soils and waters and I otherwise am fingers bleeding knuckles crunching on these dam keys about 24hours a day as you all know all to well as I like to be overwhelmingly informative on my postings some of these things tend to get a few days of time spent on a single post. This being a large part of why I don't punctuate most of my work. Simply put I would never get anything done if I wasted time on makeing sure I put a period in all the right places. I do what I can to provide the best results but I write back check re write and write a full range of motions that to go back and try for periods and commas would just result in more editing and time spent in my mind pure and simple.
 
Problem solving master who wants me on their corporate team I will eliminate all the time wasters in life and the economy would crash lol. But it's not like I am alone in this manner, take a look at Albert Einstein photos!...... notice anything to say is somewhat similar? Well thay is because he did not have a desire punctuate either he owned 8 pairs of clothes and 7 of them are exactly what you see when you are looking at the photos of him the last was both his formal dining, lecture, black tie affair , suit that he was buried in a true story that I have my guess that all but Bluzboy and myself can't get enough mirror time in the morning or before going out and takes selfies more than once a bimonthly, basically the same ones we call crazy insane or something to that effect. Useually are the only ones who know how to spell floccinaucinihilipilification amd sadly can commonky be defined by it as well (only by others)

noun

1.

Rare. the estimation of something as valueless (encountered mainly as an example of one of the longest words in the English language).
 
That's (flossy- nossy- nah-hill-ah-pill-ah-fah-cation) ; ^ ) incase anyone was wondering thay is probably not. I would venture to guess about 1/4 the way thru my last postings or less you stopped reading anyway lol and this suits me just fine as I strive for knowledge not acceptance.
 
Indeed we are still trying to figure out the same thing. It is okay though, chief executive officer douchbag and the getup peopoe patroe are on the case. I would have had the gang do all the search for answers but it just so happens that Fred has been arrested for peeptomery in the high school girls locker room same one on porky's infact. Daphne well she heard this and went ballistic and is sitting in a cell also after the jump attack on the same poor victimized girls Fred had just been ogling. Scooby-Doo n shaggs well as we all know after the mystery machine broke down he became a rapper and started working with Violent J on their band ICP sadly his first album release has for told the fate of poor ol Scooby-Doo and how he became food for the two. Lastly Velma well I won't get into to much detail but after seeing her gogo dancing with the taco's in the wind @ Gogo A Pagogoe Fo Hoes pants club. She disappeared from the world and has been only seen by the one who holds the key to her ankle chains. I have been casting Owings since wee hours of the day and the night is nearly here better go feed my pet and maybe even try for a new brainwashing at the washery.
I just got my aunt the axe murderer special they have going for only $259 she is specifically designed for release in my own time and I was already in a tiny brain bath myself I splurged on myself a bit and went om for the full life washout and have made a medley of insanity to be filled in place this weekend should be my last visit amd we will see how it goes without saying too much I think a few Bodega's are in for a little bit of a surprise party and I will be bewildered as to what happened.

@MIKEZILLA Yeah man pop culture and a half dozen or so jars of Formaldehyde, a chemical used in embalming fluid and in consumer products is known to cause cancer, according to a new report from the federal government.

The 12th Report on Carcinogens, released Friday by the National Toxicology Program, officially added the chemical and several others to the list of substances known to cause cancer.

The move comes after years of delays prompted by critics, including the chemical industry, who say the studies used to establish the link to cancer are not based on science.

Formaldehyde is a naturally occurring chemical found in the environment in small amounts. But more concerning are the levels of the chemical used in household products such as some nail polishes, hair straightening products, pressed wood products as well as industrial glues and car exhaust. Formaldehyde is the main ingredient in embalming fluid used in the funeral industry. It is also a large component of the ‘new car smell’ – composed of fumes emanating from carpets, upholstery, plastics and glues used in new cars.

But, Dr. Otis Brawley, Chief Medical Officer at the American Cancer Society andCNNHealth.com contributor, says he’s less concerned about the amount of formaldehyde average consumers are getting from household products, and more concerned about workers exposed to the chemical.

“I worry about workers in the funeral industry, nail technicians and beauticians,” he said. “It’s not just one exposure. It’s continuous exposure over time that increases risk.”

Currently, formaldehyde is not listed on the labels of most products, so Brawley says it can be difficult to reduce exposure. He believes better labeling is on the way in light of the new report.

“Over time manufacturers will work very hard to get these things out of their products,” says Brawley. “I think you’ll start to see many companies labeling their products ‘formaldehyde free.'”

Despite a lack of information for average consumers, Brawley says there are some small ways to reduce your risk: Keeping new cars and newly carpeted ares well ventilated, asking manufacturers if their products are formaldehyde free, and ensuring that if you work around formaldehyde, that your employer is following all OSHA regulations related to the chemical.

The report also added aristolochic acids – used in certain herbal remedies and teas – to the list of known carcinogens. It added certain inhalable glass wool fibers, styrene – a liquid used to make Styrofoam, and cobalt-tungsten carbide powders to the list of ‘reasonably anticipated human carcinogens.’
I suppose that ingesting or inhaling enough of any substance will end up causing damage of some sort. Actually, if you inhale di-hydrogen monoxide you will die an agonizing death. In ancient China, eating sodium chloride was a preferred method of committing suicide. Excessive amounts of C2H5OH in the blood stream can cause general unsteadiness, slurring of the voice, loss of motor function, blackouts and in severe cases, death. I’ve been in TOXIC levels of it. Literally. It was major suckage!
As one that ALSO got CO poisoning, I prefer the CO over it!
But then, MY high school science project was relative comparison of brains from fish to a cat.
The cat brain put me into toxic exposure.
But then, it was HIGHLY AS IN CONSIDERED FACT considered to cause cancer in humans for over 40 years.
Now, we know and will avoid it.
Because, chemicals are more important than the populace. NASSCO’s Official Position on Styrene and Report on Carcinogens (RoC) , http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/6/prweb8562155.htm,

The CIPP market has been allowed to do their work under the radar for 40 years. Poor engineering ethics have coincided with marketing strategies. Styrene air concentrations have been measured for steam applications up to 465 Ppm in manholes while above manholes are typically 185 Ppm. Water concentrations have been measured up to 200 Ppm (dependent on catalyst type) and the typical response is to dilute the pollution. Wet-out facilities and tube transport vehicles go unmonitored for worker saftey. More efforts need to be put towards clean technologies instead of continuing the 40 year pollution tactics. When a fish kill occurs from Insituforms I-Plus tube (marketed as environmental freindly because uses less resin) in Conquiland Can., it is denied by the contractor and they are allowed to continue on the project. When a resin spill in WI by Spiniello is ignored for months due to winter weather and they are allowed to continue without cleaning the toxic spill. When houses or businesses are invaded by toxic fumes and the contractor informs the people the concentrations are low and there are no should be no concerns (WY) even though the businesses are closed for days due to styrene odor. When a Boston neighborhood is contaminated at 4:00 am and people evacuate their houses, the contractor didn’t show up for the meeting and wrote “this is what CIPP is and everyone does it… has been this way…for years”. Workers are not supplied proper safety equipment, ill informed on the concentrations and not properly trained to use the monitoring equipment. Testing is done to obscur results or the samples are diluted. When the specifications require styrene concentrations to be at a specific level, the contractor in some instances will release untested if not inspected. So will it ruin the industry if they continue without regulation in the same fashion they have for 40 years? Pre-treat and capture technology is far less expensive than collecting and transport to a private treatment plant. NASSCO has not produced any data on costs, has not produced any data on concentrations and will hide data that is damaging to their cause. Contractors know that every liner installed produces different results (exotherms, % of cure, radial and longitude thickness or drain-down of the toxins) The CIPP styrene committee should be held responsible for the misrepresentation of the product for profit. Their engineering licenses should be questioned from the recomendations they have made to installers (i.e. placards, concentration releases..). NASSCO has showed their true colors and their lack of innovation by taking the “this is how we have done it for 40 years” approach. Question….Who in the “underground industry” understands Physics and physiology and can compare their credentials with the ROC board? Someone with a Civil Engineering degree and has a vested interest in lining sewer pipes? Maybe NASSCO should be proactive and actually do something for the good of the industry and not for the good of a few companies that pay for NASSCO to be in existence.
Look up Tuskegee experiment. Even better, look up human experimentation in the US in wiki. They are QUITE accurate on it.
BEYOND disgusting!
Now, go back to your bowl, lab rat!
Even fluoride is considered hazardous.
Or more simply, WE ARE TOAST As a chemist working for BASF, I can attest that substances such as formaldehyde are present in many everyday products. It should be no surprise that Cancer and related illnesses are rampant in this country. I began my career in Europe and though that was some 20 years ago the restrictions on exposure, handling and disposal of dangerous chemicals were far beyond what I now deal with here in the USA. All of you need to organize and begin a serious backlash against your government, due to the difficulty of linking illness with exposure to chemical poisons, there will always be some reasonable doubt about one specific polluter or product. As much as you americans hate it, strong and serious regulation is the only way to change the current situation. Unfortunately, your government is owned by the companies who are poisoning you, my employer included. A change of government and possibly the system itself would be neccessary; but the payoff is that your children wont be slowly poisoned by the apple you give them, or the new toy you bought. Perhaps weigh whether politics and ideology are more important than your own family. Also ask yourself where your ideology and poltical leanings come from, you may be surpised. Something close to 50% of North americans will develop cancer in thier lifetime, if this were any other disease it would be considered an epidemic. Unhealthy levels of formaldehyde were found in most (98%) homes tested in research published by the California Air Resources Board. Fortunately, testing is an easy do-it-yourself task using passive formaldehyde badges. This is the method the Sierra Club used to initially discover the now infamous FEMA trailers. Many homes have similar concentrations of formaldehyde. The badges are available on the Internet for as low as $39 including the lab analysis and report.
Formaldehyde off gasses from many household items including: fiberglass insulation, laminate flooring, furniture and many nick-knacks. Anyone want to guess what commonly used aerosol air freshener product made by SC Johnson has formaldehyde in it?

Call up SC Johnson and ask them what the ingredients are in their Glade Air Freshener.

I guarantee they won’t tell you.
It is a well known fact that aspartame has formaldehyde in it. And diet soda is produced with aspartame as a by-product. Think of ALL the diet soda that is consumed in this Country. It is no wonder cancer diagnosis is increasing day by day in this country. Between the food we eat, and the products we use on our skin, in our hair, and in our daily life, that are NOT safe for anyone to consume,every person is at risk. In the 21st Century the diagnois should be decreasing, with all of the technology that is available to keep this horrible disease at bay. There certainly isn’t any current report indicating that cancer research is advancing its ability to contain this disease. Namely D.O.T in your case @MIKEZILLA

Amd let us all not forget about BPA as i went over with you all some months ago.......

@yooper420 was that first bit your doing

For the record I should be clear that the most part of that is copied from a scientific chemical forum.

@keiksweat yeah mate I have a tendency to mumble alot too but I'm not crazy just insane ;) would take a shit ton more than words to hurt me these days gots skin like iron mate or lead cuz i do dent easily but you don't get thru that easily[/. you do know I'm only messing around don't ya.your always the first person italk with or ask for advice.you know that right
 
Indeed we are still trying to figure out the same thing. It is okay though, chief executive officer douchbag and the getup peopoe patroe are on the case. I would have had the gang do all the search for answers but it just so happens that Fred has been arrested for peeptomery in the high school girls locker room same one on porky's infact. Daphne well she heard this and went ballistic and is sitting in a cell also after the jump attack on the same poor victimized girls Fred had just been ogling. Scooby-Doo n shaggs well as we all know after the mystery machine broke down he became a rapper and started working with Violent J on their band ICP sadly his first album release has for told the fate of poor ol Scooby-Doo and how he became food for the two. Lastly Velma well I won't get into to much detail but after seeing her gogo dancing with the taco's in the wind @ Gogo A Pagogoe Fo Hoes pants club. She disappeared from the world and has been only seen by the one who holds the key to her ankle chains. I have been casting Owings since wee hours of the day and the night is nearly here better go feed my pet and maybe even try for a new brainwashing at the washery.
I just got my aunt the axe murderer special they have going for only $259 she is specifically designed for release in my own time and I was already in a tiny brain bath myself I splurged on myself a bit and went om for the full life washout and have made a medley of insanity to be filled in place this weekend should be my last visit amd we will see how it goes without saying too much I think a few Bodega's are in for a little bit of a surprise party and I will be bewildered as to what happened.

@MIKEZILLA Yeah man pop culture and a half dozen or so jars of Formaldehyde, a chemical used in embalming fluid and in consumer products is known to cause cancer, according to a new report from the federal government.

The 12th Report on Carcinogens, released Friday by the National Toxicology Program, officially added the chemical and several others to the list of substances known to cause cancer.

The move comes after years of delays prompted by critics, including the chemical industry, who say the studies used to establish the link to cancer are not based on science.

Formaldehyde is a naturally occurring chemical found in the environment in small amounts. But more concerning are the levels of the chemical used in household products such as some nail polishes, hair straightening products, pressed wood products as well as industrial glues and car exhaust. Formaldehyde is the main ingredient in embalming fluid used in the funeral industry. It is also a large component of the ‘new car smell’ – composed of fumes emanating from carpets, upholstery, plastics and glues used in new cars.

But, Dr. Otis Brawley, Chief Medical Officer at the American Cancer Society andCNNHealth.com contributor, says he’s less concerned about the amount of formaldehyde average consumers are getting from household products, and more concerned about workers exposed to the chemical.

“I worry about workers in the funeral industry, nail technicians and beauticians,” he said. “It’s not just one exposure. It’s continuous exposure over time that increases risk.”

Currently, formaldehyde is not listed on the labels of most products, so Brawley says it can be difficult to reduce exposure. He believes better labeling is on the way in light of the new report.

“Over time manufacturers will work very hard to get these things out of their products,” says Brawley. “I think you’ll start to see many companies labeling their products ‘formaldehyde free.'”

Despite a lack of information for average consumers, Brawley says there are some small ways to reduce your risk: Keeping new cars and newly carpeted ares well ventilated, asking manufacturers if their products are formaldehyde free, and ensuring that if you work around formaldehyde, that your employer is following all OSHA regulations related to the chemical.

The report also added aristolochic acids – used in certain herbal remedies and teas – to the list of known carcinogens. It added certain inhalable glass wool fibers, styrene – a liquid used to make Styrofoam, and cobalt-tungsten carbide powders to the list of ‘reasonably anticipated human carcinogens.’
I suppose that ingesting or inhaling enough of any substance will end up causing damage of some sort. Actually, if you inhale di-hydrogen monoxide you will die an agonizing death. In ancient China, eating sodium chloride was a preferred method of committing suicide. Excessive amounts of C2H5OH in the blood stream can cause general unsteadiness, slurring of the voice, loss of motor function, blackouts and in severe cases, death. I’ve been in TOXIC levels of it. Literally. It was major suckage!
As one that ALSO got CO poisoning, I prefer the CO over it!
But then, MY high school science project was relative comparison of brains from fish to a cat.
The cat brain put me into toxic exposure.
But then, it was HIGHLY AS IN CONSIDERED FACT considered to cause cancer in humans for over 40 years.
Now, we know and will avoid it.
Because, chemicals are more important than the populace. NASSCO’s Official Position on Styrene and Report on Carcinogens (RoC) , http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/6/prweb8562155.htm,

The CIPP market has been allowed to do their work under the radar for 40 years. Poor engineering ethics have coincided with marketing strategies. Styrene air concentrations have been measured for steam applications up to 465 Ppm in manholes while above manholes are typically 185 Ppm. Water concentrations have been measured up to 200 Ppm (dependent on catalyst type) and the typical response is to dilute the pollution. Wet-out facilities and tube transport vehicles go unmonitored for worker saftey. More efforts need to be put towards clean technologies instead of continuing the 40 year pollution tactics. When a fish kill occurs from Insituforms I-Plus tube (marketed as environmental freindly because uses less resin) in Conquiland Can., it is denied by the contractor and they are allowed to continue on the project. When a resin spill in WI by Spiniello is ignored for months due to winter weather and they are allowed to continue without cleaning the toxic spill. When houses or businesses are invaded by toxic fumes and the contractor informs the people the concentrations are low and there are no should be no concerns (WY) even though the businesses are closed for days due to styrene odor. When a Boston neighborhood is contaminated at 4:00 am and people evacuate their houses, the contractor didn’t show up for the meeting and wrote “this is what CIPP is and everyone does it… has been this way…for years”. Workers are not supplied proper safety equipment, ill informed on the concentrations and not properly trained to use the monitoring equipment. Testing is done to obscur results or the samples are diluted. When the specifications require styrene concentrations to be at a specific level, the contractor in some instances will release untested if not inspected. So will it ruin the industry if they continue without regulation in the same fashion they have for 40 years? Pre-treat and capture technology is far less expensive than collecting and transport to a private treatment plant. NASSCO has not produced any data on costs, has not produced any data on concentrations and will hide data that is damaging to their cause. Contractors know that every liner installed produces different results (exotherms, % of cure, radial and longitude thickness or drain-down of the toxins) The CIPP styrene committee should be held responsible for the misrepresentation of the product for profit. Their engineering licenses should be questioned from the recomendations they have made to installers (i.e. placards, concentration releases..). NASSCO has showed their true colors and their lack of innovation by taking the “this is how we have done it for 40 years” approach. Question….Who in the “underground industry” understands Physics and physiology and can compare their credentials with the ROC board? Someone with a Civil Engineering degree and has a vested interest in lining sewer pipes? Maybe NASSCO should be proactive and actually do something for the good of the industry and not for the good of a few companies that pay for NASSCO to be in existence.
Look up Tuskegee experiment. Even better, look up human experimentation in the US in wiki. They are QUITE accurate on it.
BEYOND disgusting!
Now, go back to your bowl, lab rat!
Even fluoride is considered hazardous.
Or more simply, WE ARE TOAST As a chemist working for BASF, I can attest that substances such as formaldehyde are present in many everyday products. It should be no surprise that Cancer and related illnesses are rampant in this country. I began my career in Europe and though that was some 20 years ago the restrictions on exposure, handling and disposal of dangerous chemicals were far beyond what I now deal with here in the USA. All of you need to organize and begin a serious backlash against your government, due to the difficulty of linking illness with exposure to chemical poisons, there will always be some reasonable doubt about one specific polluter or product. As much as you americans hate it, strong and serious regulation is the only way to change the current situation. Unfortunately, your government is owned by the companies who are poisoning you, my employer included. A change of government and possibly the system itself would be neccessary; but the payoff is that your children wont be slowly poisoned by the apple you give them, or the new toy you bought. Perhaps weigh whether politics and ideology are more important than your own family. Also ask yourself where your ideology and poltical leanings come from, you may be surpised. Something close to 50% of North americans will develop cancer in thier lifetime, if this were any other disease it would be considered an epidemic. Unhealthy levels of formaldehyde were found in most (98%) homes tested in research published by the California Air Resources Board. Fortunately, testing is an easy do-it-yourself task using passive formaldehyde badges. This is the method the Sierra Club used to initially discover the now infamous FEMA trailers. Many homes have similar concentrations of formaldehyde. The badges are available on the Internet for as low as $39 including the lab analysis and report.
Formaldehyde off gasses from many household items including: fiberglass insulation, laminate flooring, furniture and many nick-knacks. Anyone want to guess what commonly used aerosol air freshener product made by SC Johnson has formaldehyde in it?

Call up SC Johnson and ask them what the ingredients are in their Glade Air Freshener.

I guarantee they won’t tell you.
It is a well known fact that aspartame has formaldehyde in it. And diet soda is produced with aspartame as a by-product. Think of ALL the diet soda that is consumed in this Country. It is no wonder cancer diagnosis is increasing day by day in this country. Between the food we eat, and the products we use on our skin, in our hair, and in our daily life, that are NOT safe for anyone to consume,every person is at risk. In the 21st Century the diagnois should be decreasing, with all of the technology that is available to keep this horrible disease at bay. There certainly isn’t any current report indicating that cancer research is advancing its ability to contain this disease. Namely D.O.T in your case @MIKEZILLA

Amd let us all not forget about BPA as i went over with you all some months ago.......

@yooper420 was that first bit your doing

For the record I should be clear that the most part of that is copied from a scientific chemical forum.

@keiksweat yeah mate I have a tendency to mumble alot too but I'm not crazy just insane ;) would take a shit ton more than words to hurt me these days gots skin like iron mate or lead cuz i do dent easily but you don't get thru that easily[/QUO
That's (flossy- nossy- nah-hill-ah-pill-ah-fah-cation) ; ^ ) incase anyone was wondering thay is probably not. I would venture to guess about 1/4 the way thru my last postings or less you stopped reading anyway lol and this suits me just fine as I strive for knowledge not acceptance.
What's up pal,havin a good moan on tonight or ya just board?I don't think anyone else is on.you heard off mike or bluz?
 
What's happening man,my post has gone all crazy.wont let me write for some reason.you heard off mike or bluz kilo?
Have no fear UnderDog is hear....@ keikswar! Hey mates! Been busy! kilo and keiky! U guys r gonna be proud of Zilla! I snuck sum stuff in the cart @ WallyMart when momma had her head turned...got me. Resovoir and a air pump and air stone...now can someone tell me how to brew sum tea! Gonna make me a bubbler! I dont have much air time tonight have an hour in garden will be off @ 7:30 but will be back @ 7 am! Hope all is well!
 
Now this is sum purple!
 

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BlueBerry#1 is on its way! Cracking them in coco is proving successful...i know one more is cracked...I will not disturb them as they will soon find the midnight sun burning for 'em!
 
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BlueBerry#1 is on its way! Cracking them in coco is proving successful...i know one more is cracked...I will not disturb them as they will soon find the midnight sun burning for 'em!
Hows it going bro?how was cup?what you do to plants that's spectacular?fill me in...come on man...what u do spectacular..me wants spectacular...hehe.
 
I have to wait till am @keiksweat pushed for time...
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time for sum tea brewing will update in full early am!
 
Here is the BlackLimeReserve kickin sum ass now...took a few shots @ lights out
Yep,looking great over there mate.that lime reserve is gonna be a kills.what you been feeding the no till ones?what's going in your tea,worm casts n bennies?loving it bro.its nice whens they start cruising bro.
 
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Lights out How green they r! @keiksweat was gonna ask what u been brewing up? Details mate Gonna go to shop and pick up sum ingredients...as far as the no till which is all of em...I have been on straight H20 for a while...been foliar spraying like a mad man Under the lights and all...and let me tell you mate! They reak of pure healthiness...and its fetting better!
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And these cuts seem to be settling in!! Things are moving right along Amazing stuff happening in the garden! Ok mate i am fricken exhausted...1st thing in am I will let you know my experience @ the emerald cup...amazing tho! Met Adam Dunn, Dj Short, jj new york...tons of people mate! In word on Mr.B? He still stormed in? kilo?
 
View attachment 555321 Lights out How green they r! @keiksweat was gonna ask what u been brewing up? Details mate Gonna go to shop and pick up sum ingredients...as far as the no till which is all of em...I have been on straight H20 for a while...been foliar spraying like a mad man Under the lights and all...and let me tell you mate! They reak of pure healthiness...and its fetting better!View attachment 555325 View attachment 555326 And these cuts seem to be settling in!! Things are moving right along Amazing stuff happening in the garden! Ok mate i am fricken exhausted...1st thing in am I will let you know my experience @ the emerald cup...amazing tho! Met Adam Dunn, Dj Short, jj new york...tons of people mate! In word on Mr.B? He still stormed in? kilo?
You get some zzz we chat later.pm me when ur up I tell ya tea recipe.man you lucky git,sounds like you had a great day...
 
School run in a bit,then check the girls,who's up still,kilo?you about bro.
 
View attachment 555321 Lights out How green they r! @keiksweat was gonna ask what u been brewing up? Details mate Gonna go to shop and pick up sum ingredients...as far as the no till which is all of em...I have been on straight H20 for a while...been foliar spraying like a mad man Under the lights and all...and let me tell you mate! They reak of pure healthiness...and its fetting better!View attachment 555325 View attachment 555326 And these cuts seem to be settling in!! Things are moving right along Amazing stuff happening in the garden! Ok mate i am fricken exhausted...1st thing in am I will let you know my experience @ the emerald cup...amazing tho! Met Adam Dunn, Dj Short, jj new york...tons of people mate! In word on Mr.B? He still stormed in? kilo?
You brought a labeling machine just for ya pots.?
 
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