Stop The Bro Science Behind Molasses And Other Organic Stuff

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Ecompost

Ecompost

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@Ecompost
We have been round and round about this. I have explained it. When you eat food do you ask the chef what each and every ingredient and at what portion is in your meal? No you just blissfully enjoy.

I know there is enough organic matter in my system to kickstart the nitrogen cycle. I aint as stupid as ya think. Do i lose sleep about any specific nutrient? Nah. I got it all covered.

Start with good soil and you wont have any questions. I went half compost, half ewc. Did you see my dirt?
please mate, i run a horticulture company, have been an organic farmer for 40 years and really dont need you to explain the ultimate recipient of my food now do I? I am likely more aware of feedback loops relating to nutrition that might be being recognized by you?
Everything you discuss is an after N compound, the basic point of which is N2. I am never blissfully unaware buddy. I will not participate unless i am aesthetically engaged, and this follows my own nutrition and understanding that its owner is my cells.
 
EventHorizan

EventHorizan

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U guys cant even agree with each other...
Im not for sure some of u even read the posts you reply too..
Most of u never even seen a hydro unit much less operated one..
I hate to bust your bubble but im not for sure if yoy guys know what your talk8ng about or not. I mean there is a lot of debate on this thread with no one really taking the leadership roll.. Just a lot of copy and paste going on..
From reading this thread it sounds pretty hard to grow mj..
Did i mention that i havent had to touch my system in 10 days...
Simplified..
Oh and i never smoke weed with Willi Nelson again!
:)

Well i hope you all come together and figure out this no till as i like some of you and 8 want you to succeed..
I just found out that they cant do no till in Pelican Bay.. No grass on the yard...
 
EventHorizan

EventHorizan

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Yah honestly molasses doesnt have a whole hell of a lot to offer. Some iron maybe and you should be using unsulfured blackstrap molasses. This will get a little dicey to explain. Your plant doesnt recognize or uptake sugar. It does recognize and uptake enzymes. I know guys like molasses but i dont know if it will have the proper peptides and nucleutides to ride the fulvic acid in. I use, what else, freshly ground malted barley powder. It will contain urease, phosphatase, protease, chitinase and other enzymes that the plant will actually recognize. Think of it like feeding your plant stem cells. Its why this plant cant and won't stop. Fade already!
See there is no way im wasting my time growing plants like that.
Thats a huge waste of electric, lights, and space.. That doesnt come close to makung up for free nutrients...
Sorry just telling like it is...
 
EventHorizan

EventHorizan

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Sorry about the snap back. I think I've just explained so many times im sick. Crowded plants dont produce even with CO2. When a plant is intruded upon it releases ethylene. I dont care how much co2 you force they wont take it all up because the ethylene is so rich under the canopy. Mites can also smell ethylene. Its a distress signal and it causes a chain reaction. Doesnt matter how much you move the air. How can a plant inhale while it exhales?

Respiration is clutch rgarding carbon fixation.. Plants that are overcrowded cant breath.

Plants have natural defenses and they can work against you. They can benefit you as well. Introducing chitin for instance. Causes a plant to trigger instinctual natural defenses.

Sounds crazy but if you worked with a cut and allowed bugs to attack it for 3 cycles roughly you could draw that genetic trait of pest resistance out and no more IPM
While that last sentence does intrigue me, i fucked around and got to high before work so we have to save this discussion for later.... Lil hash before work...
 
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EventHorizan

EventHorizan

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Damn i stayed baked fot almost 3 hrs after that balloon...
Homie dont get yourself to worked up..
You dont have to make me a believer..
I like you already..
And your right tho, my ole lady would never let me haul that much dirt in the house...
I even explained nematodes but it was no go...
 
gravekat303

gravekat303

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Damn i stayed baked fot almost 3 hrs after that balloon...
Homie dont get yourself to worked up..
You dont have to make me a believer..
I like you already..
And your right tho, my ole lady would never let me haul that much dirt in the house...
I even explained nematodes but it was no go...
Haha my buddy runs no till and has dor years when he moved we had to haul hundreds of pounds of dirt downstairs and into a uhaul. He threw like 4 55 gallon bins of dirt he couldnt fit behind a dumpster its now a giant pile of weeds in the middle of the city where theres no real greenery
 
EventHorizan

EventHorizan

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Haha my buddy runs no till and has dor years when he moved we had to haul hundreds of pounds of dirt downstairs and into a uhaul. He threw like 4 55 gallon bins of dirt he couldnt fit behind a dumpster its now a giant pile of weeds in the middle of the city where theres no real greenery
Thats great shit..
Rebuilding Detroit one mound at a time!
That would make a great slogan banner!!!
 
EventHorizan

EventHorizan

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@EventHorizan
Look up shade avoidance syndrome seriously. Most any plant that grows like an MJ plant display this phenomenon. Extreme lateral branching and releasing VOCs into the air. Your plants are in the middle of a heavyweight fight.
I would brother but im right in the middle of moving my veg table downstairs..
I want my damn bedroom back...
Im just on smoke break :)
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

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Reason I ask is because my understanding is that a superior humus source increases denitrification when mixed with peat moss and basic amendments. If I am wrong tell me and I won't waste my money or time with EWC.

That's what compost and EWC is. Simply a source of humus and nitrogen fixing life, right? So how does the N stop there? I don't see it as a fertilizer although it has some quality.

I have 0 doubt in your knowledge. In my arguments I want you to show me where I am wrong or point out if portrayed something wrong. Yes i did portray the need for nitrogen incorrectly and you corrected and I agreed. I'm sorry if I come off bullish. Truth is I need an ass kicking to learn my lesson.

Organic matter that has been in soil for a while has been altered into a much studied substance, humus. We know for example that humus always has a carbon to nitrogen ratio of from 10:1 to about 12:1. Garden writers call great compost like this, "stable humus," because it is slow to decompose. Its presence in soil steadily feeds a healthy ecology of microorganisms important to plant health, and whose activity accelerates the release of plant nutrients from undecomposed rock particles. Humus is also fertilizer because its gradual decomposition provides mineral nutrients that make plants grow. The most important of these nutrients is nitrate nitrogen, thus soil scientists may call humus decomposition "nitrification."

When organic material with a C/N below 12:1 is mixed into soil its breakdown is very rapid. Because it contains more nitrogen than stable humus does, nitrogen is rapidly released to feed the plants and soil life. Along with nitrogen comes other plant nutrients. This accelerated nitrification continues until the remaining nitrogen balances with the remaining carbon at a ratio of about 12:1. Then the soil returns to equilibrium. The lower the C/N the more rapid the release, and the more violent the reaction in the soil. Most low C/N organic materials, like seed meal or chicken manure, rapidly release nutrients for a month or two before stabilizing. What has been described here is fertilizer.

When organic material with a C/N higher than 12:1 is tilled into soil, soil animals and microorganisms find themselves with an unsurpassed carbohydrate banquet. Just as in a compost heap, within days bacteria and fungi can multiply to match any food supply. But to construct their bodies these microorganisms need the same nutrients that plants need to grow and this takes us back to nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus, calcium, magnesium, etc. There are never enough of these nutrients in high C/N organic matter to match the needs of soil bacteria, especially never enough nitrogen, so soil microorganisms uptake these nutrients from the soil's reserves while they "bloom" and rapidly consume all the new carbon presented to them.

During this period of rapid decomposition the soil is thoroughly robbed of plant nutrients. And nitrification stops. Initially, a great deal of carbon dioxide gas may be given off, as carbon is metabolically "burned." However, CO2 in high concentrations can be toxic to sprouting seeds and consequently, germination failures may occur. There are two usual causes. Either before sowing all the seeds were exposed to temperatures above 110 degree or more likely, a large quantity of high C/N "manure" was tilled into the garden just before sowing. In soil so disturbed transplants may also fail to grow for awhile. If the "manure" contains a large quantity of sawdust the soil will seem very infertile for a month or three.

Sir Albert Howard had a unique and pithy way of expressing this reality. He said that soil was not capable of working two jobs at once. You could not expect it to nitrify humus while it was also being required to digest organic matter. That's one reason he thought composting was such a valuable process. The digestion of organic matter proceeds outside the soil; when finished product, humus, is ready for nitrification, it is tilled in.

Rapid consumption of carbon continues until the C/N of the new material drops to the range of stable humus. Then decay microorganisms die off and the nutrients they hoarded are released back into the soil. How long the soil remains inhospitable to plant growth and seed germination depends on soil temperature, the amount of the material and how high its C/N is, and the amount of nutrients the soil is holding in reserve. The warmer and more fertile the soil was before the addition of high C/N organic matter, the faster it will decompose.

Hope this helps
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

5,134
313
U guys cant even agree with each other...
Im not for sure some of u even read the posts you reply too..
Most of u never even seen a hydro unit much less operated one..
I hate to bust your bubble but im not for sure if yoy guys know what your talk8ng about or not. I mean there is a lot of debate on this thread with no one really taking the leadership roll.. Just a lot of copy and paste going on..
From reading this thread it sounds pretty hard to grow mj..
Did i mention that i havent had to touch my system in 10 days...
Simplified..
Oh and i never smoke weed with Willi Nelson again!
:)

Well i hope you all come together and figure out this no till as i like some of you and 8 want you to succeed..
I just found out that they cant do no till in Pelican Bay.. No grass on the yard...
then Pelican bay have made a right royal mess of things. I am not sure what a hydro dude is doing on a thread about molasseses commenting on no till with a badge that might claim some knowledge outside of i havent touched my system for 10 days. i dont think we have touched our system for 40 years mate, but i am not sure i understand what touching is? perhaps you might enlighten me? i think you like many are missing the point here, its not difficult to grow MJ, you are proof of this, but it is difficult to understand multrophic systems where the most basic of characters can become the biggest predator.
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

5,134
313
no reason why you couldnt run it forever, but if you want to produce the same crop each time this might be harder as time passes and C/N gets tougher to manage alongside water capillary transport matters as we add remove, add remove plants to a single container of compost/ soil. Tie this to the changing nature of soil as biology and chemicals interact and we might end up with too much SNR from specified related or non related microbes which eventually put an end to our reuse. if we can learn all about all of these things, we can master a gram of soil forever i reckon :-)
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

5,134
313
Sorry about the snap back. I think I've just explained so many times im sick. Crowded plants dont produce even with CO2. When a plant is intruded upon it releases ethylene. I dont care how much co2 you force they wont take it all up because the ethylene is so rich under the canopy. Mites can also smell ethylene. Its a distress signal and it causes a chain reaction. Doesnt matter how much you move the air. How can a plant inhale while it exhales?

Respiration is clutch rgarding carbon fixation.. Plants that are overcrowded cant breath.

Plants have natural defenses and they can work against you. They can benefit you as well. Introducing chitin for instance. Causes a plant to trigger instinctual natural defenses.

Sounds crazy but if you worked with a cut and allowed bugs to attack it for 3 cycles roughly you could draw that genetic trait of pest resistance out and no more IPM
oxygen diffusion is the barrier to greater photosynthetic efficiency, adding CO2 doesnt do as much as people like to think reference solving this :-) people add CO2 but havent a clue about Oxygen release, adding CO2 is largely blind assumption just as is all other nutrient application
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

5,134
313
why understanding the science of plant function is critical, its not about growing pot, although we can benefit from this data in this community, its about feeding the world in unpredictable climates and if knowledge is held here, we should see it spread :-) This dude invented a device which can measure the impacts of CO2 and O2 and now we can know where our plants are using these gases and how. We can use this and other new technology to help us better select tolerant plants for the future, better adjust our inputs, have some more hope that we can fill the gaps our land mass and current practice cant accommodate tomorrow
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

5,134
313
science is giving us answers, I am for science, but I understand bias, and funding, and politics and economics and how these cloud the data. never the less good work is being done to help us better understand and be better growers and tenants of land
 
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