JACKS BACK!!! Capulators new formulas.

[hyzerflip]

One other issue is all this feed interval talk. I've always been on the theory that in flower you want to have wet and dry cycles to trick the plant into thinking the season is running out to produce more resin to catch pollen. If you're watering every three min for thirty secs I don't see how the proven wet dry cycle can be achieved. This is why you see growers like the jungle boys use small grow cubes, to root bound the plant in order to get the most wet dry cycles possible.

You obviously grow in soil. Wet dry cycles are not necessary for coco. Coco has fantastic drainage and a perfect air to water ratio inherent to the medium itself.

 

[Mr Bee]

You obviously grow in soil. Wet dry cycles are not necessary for coco. Coco has fantastic drainage and a perfect air to water ratio inherent to the medium itself.

plus if you watered coco only once every 3 days or so like soil your plants would be shit from lack of oxygen at and nutrients at the root zone.in my limited experience to make the most of coco atlest 2 feeds everyday is needed if not more.

 

[Hwmpunk]

You obviously grow in soil. Wet dry cycles are not necessary for coco. Coco has fantastic drainage and a perfect air to water ratio inherent to the medium itself.

The truth is even coco needs wet and dry cycles. The best method is to get a plant root bound so many cycles a day can be done. That's the proper way to multi feed per day. Soaking already soaken coco will help oxygenation but the plant won't push as hard for resin or buds because it feels no rush to reproduce

 

[cemchris]

What can you tell me about that initial caps formula vs the one from greengene gardens


Cap is using a ton of additives to get his 120-40-210-120-60 and 108 sulfur, but with the formula in the video which is simply something like 2g jacks, 2.7g cal nite, 2g epsom and 1.2g moab (pic attached) it seems to be better than caps numbers with the exception of mag. Btw moab aka mkp is the same as moraleaf you can buy 50lb of it for $80 at an ag store. And also agsil is the cheapest silica you can get


What do you think of this cap formula vs the video one? And what is most? Do you think it's worth going through all that to achieve 50% more mag but 50% less cal? I'd say cal is much more important for weight.


I just found out about that YouTube formula, but I've been simply knocking calnite to 50% from week 2-4 then no more, while going 50% jacks but 1g moraleaf week 4.5 and week 6 no more jacks and 2-2.5 moraleaf until flush. I cut calnite in an attempt to cut all that nitrogen but it obviously leads to deficiency and reduced weight.


When cap defoliates does he go hard or pull less than 10%, even on week 4? How clean do you keep it for penetration? I use coco beds with 9-16 plants per 4x4. Sog style and it goes full Amazon with that much nitrogen. Which is my BIGGEST problem with jacks. We should be at 50% nitrogen through the stretch, and zero nitrogen after week 4. That much nitrogen through stretch causes even more stretch, too much energy to more fan leaves, not a proper 100% donkey dick cola formation if it stayed more squat. And also all that nitrogen causes weaker cell membranes. But we can't cut nitrogen because of the calcium which to me needs to stay full power until flush. I'm looking into just buying straight calcium from RAW or yara viva makes some too. Yara also has cheaper calnite. It's expensive but only needed for about 23 waterings until flush

Cutting N is the wrong thing to do plant health wise and yield wise in flower. I don't know where that got started and I will admit I used to prescribe to the same thing back when I wasn't really tweaking nutes and running bottles. All A & B bottle nutes are running N until you flush also. I run 150 ppmish of N from day 1 of flower till flush and I have some of the best flowers and yields I have ever produced. Going over 100 ppm of P imo is what causes all the problems in flower. They simply don't need or use it. Same nutes day 1 till flush. Stuff like Sour D I have to dilute my nutes down a little cause they are way too hot for plants like that.

My NPK's look a lot like his. Funny how close I ended up to this Jack's formula. I have never run Jacks but do run pure salts. I would say def go with his just based on the success I have seen with my own stuff and a similar NPK (I run a little more N, K, Ca and less Mg). Hard on Defol always.

I wouldn't take GH's suggestion on a feed schedule as a good schedule and use that as a basis on why they do something or why you shouldn't. Specially when they are selling you multi bottles with the same ingredients in them but just adding different dyes. Look at all the people using Lucas.

Calcium chloride ($36 for 50 lbs from custom hydro nutes) is the same price as cal nitrate (yara) last time I checked if you wanted a diff source of Ca without N. I think I have maybe used 30 lbs of cal nitrate over the course of a year. Stay away from RAW. They are just crazy overpriced.

 

[Gweedo]

This thread is such an awesome read for those of us new to growing and paying outrageous prices for water in a bottle when we have the option to go this route, major props to all involved in this over its lifetime

 

[Hwmpunk]

Thank

Cutting N is the wrong thing to do plant health wise and yield wise in flower. I don't know where that got started and I will admit I used to prescribe to the same thing back when I wasn't really tweaking nutes and running bottles. All A & B bottle nutes are running N until you flush also. I run 150 ppmish of N from day 1 of flower till flush and I have some of the best flowers and yields I have ever produced. Going over 100 ppm of P imo is what causes all the problems in flower. They simply don't need or use it. Same nutes day 1 till flush. Stuff like Sour D I have to dilute my nutes down a little cause they are way too hot for plants like that.

My NPK's look a lot like his. Funny how close I ended up to this Jack's formula. I have never run Jacks but do run pure salts. I would say def go with his just based on the success I have seen with my own stuff and a similar NPK (I run a little more N, K, Ca and less Mg). Hard on Defol always.

I wouldn't take GH's suggestion on a feed schedule as a good schedule and use that as a basis on why they do something or why you shouldn't. Specially when they are selling you multi bottles with the same ingredients in them but just adding different dyes. Look at all the people using Lucas.

Calcium chloride ($36 for 50 lbs from custom hydro nutes) is the same price as cal nitrate (yara) last time I checked if you wanted a diff source of Ca without N. I think I have maybe used 30 lbs of cal nitrate over the course of a year. Stay away from RAW. They are just crazy overpriced.

Thank you for the insight. I say, overstretch and overleafiness are symptoms of high nitrogen, but it makes sense to control it through other means in order to keep the plant well fed. Over stretch can be controlled through proper lumens, as well as defoliation and super cropping. When you compare your npk, you're comparing it to caputulator or to the YouTube guy? Either way they're pretty similar formulas.

One note I'd like to add about too much P is that at above 70ppm, micorrhizae and other bennies go into hibernation. So if you must go that high, only go towards the end because if not you won't maintain the root and immune health. I don't use bennies with my hydro regimen, but I can say my plants wouldn't stand a chance against pm on their own if outdoors. My friend who runs the same genetics outdoors, his plants get rained on and live in fog and have 0 pm because he has an insane living biome and runs all organic soil, chock full of earthworms and secondary wild weeds like clover and alfalfa etc.

I'm still a big fan of dropping base nutes and going hard on bloom booster in the final phase of flower. The plants have plenty of micro stored, and it helps with heavy metal quantity within the bud, which is tested for now in the rec market. I wonder if going full strength on micro until flush causes testing to show as a fail? Because why else would one test high, if not for going too hard in hydro?

 

[cemchris]

Thank

Thank you for the insight. I say, overstretch and overleafiness are symptoms of high nitrogen, but it makes sense to control it through other means in order to keep the plant well fed. Over stretch can be controlled through proper lumens, as well as defoliation and super cropping. When you compare your npk, you're comparing it to caputulator or to the YouTube guy? Either way they're pretty similar formulas.

One note I'd like to add about too much P is that at above 70ppm, micorrhizae and other bennies go into hibernation. So if you must go that high, only go towards the end because if not you won't maintain the root and immune health. I don't use bennies with my hydro regimen, but I can say my plants wouldn't stand a chance against pm on their own if outdoors. My friend who runs the same genetics outdoors, his plants get rained on and live in fog and have 0 pm because he has an insane living biome and runs all organic soil, chock full of earthworms and secondary wild weeds like clover and alfalfa etc.

I'm still a big fan of dropping base nutes and going hard on bloom booster in the final phase of flower. The plants have plenty of micro stored, and it helps with heavy metal quantity within the bud, which is tested for now in the rec market. I wonder if going full strength on micro until flush causes testing to show as a fail? Because why else would one test high, if not for going too hard in hydro?

The youtube guy.

 

[hyzerflip]

Thank

Thank you for the insight. I say, overstretch and overleafiness are symptoms of high nitrogen, but it makes sense to control it through other means in order to keep the plant well fed. Over stretch can be controlled through proper lumens, as well as defoliation and super cropping. When you compare your npk, you're comparing it to caputulator or to the YouTube guy? Either way they're pretty similar formulas.

One note I'd like to add about too much P is that at above 70ppm, micorrhizae and other bennies go into hibernation. So if you must go that high, only go towards the end because if not you won't maintain the root and immune health. I don't use bennies with my hydro regimen, but I can say my plants wouldn't stand a chance against pm on their own if outdoors. My friend who runs the same genetics outdoors, his plants get rained on and live in fog and have 0 pm because he has an insane living biome and runs all organic soil, chock full of earthworms and secondary wild weeds like clover and alfalfa etc.

I'm still a big fan of dropping base nutes and going hard on bloom booster in the final phase of flower. The plants have plenty of micro stored, and it helps with heavy metal quantity within the bud, which is tested for now in the rec market. I wonder if going full strength on micro until flush causes testing to show as a fail? Because why else would one test high, if not for going too hard in hydro?

imo you're making this waaaaaaaay too complicated. In nature, plants are in soil, and the soil has all the nutrients it needs. The soil doesn't have high N at one part of the year and low N high P the other part of the year, it's basically the same soil the whole year round.

This means that plants evolved with the abillity to uptake the nutrients they need when they need them. The idea that you need to hand feed plants makes zero sense from an evolutionary point of view.

If you give plants a well balanced diet at all times, they'll eat what they need. 1.6 EC of the exact same nutrient solution from clone to finish works fantastic for me. I've never had higher quality or better yields.

 

[MIMedGrower]

imo you're making this waaaaaaaay too complicated. In nature, plants are in soil, and the soil has all the nutrients it needs. The soil doesn't have high N at one part of the year and low N high P the other part of the year, it's basically the same soil the whole year round.

This means that plants evolved with the abillity to uptake the nutrients they need when they need them. The idea that you need to hand feed plants makes zero sense from an evolutionary point of view.

If you give plants a well balanced diet at all times, they'll eat what they need. 1.6 EC of the exact same nutrient solution from clone to finish works fantastic for me. I've never had higher quality or better yields.

That would burn and then lock out my diesel/ thai strains in a short time.

I rarely get as high as 1.6 ec.

 

[hyzerflip]

That would burn and then lock out my diesel/ thai strains in a short time.

I rarely get as high as 1.6 ec.

fwiw I grow Original Diesel and a super hazy Jack Herer, and neither has any problem with 1.6EC directly out of the cloner. They love it, in fact.

 

[MIMedGrower]

fwiw I grow Original Diesel and a super hazy Jack Herer, and neither has any problem with 1.6EC directly out of the cloner. They love it, in fact.

Im sure thats true. Every grow and room can be different.

You have phenos saved that can take it.

I grow from seed for variety. And the most stable plants are never the ones i like best in my experience. But they are easier to grow.

 

[hyzerflip]

Im sure thats true. Every grow and room can be different.

You have phenos saved that can take it.

I grow from seed for variety. And the most stable plants are never the ones i like best in my experience. But they are easier to grow.

Original Diesel isn't a pheno I found, it's the clone-only mother of Sour Diesel. It's the Diesel to rule all Diesels, and it loooves 1.6EC whether it's under small flouros or 750 DEs.

I grow tons of plants, clones and from seed, and never once has anything ever even flinched at 1.6EC. Seriously, give it a shot, I bet you'll be surprised.

fwiw that 1.6EC includes my 0.4EC tap water. The rest is Jack's @ 3.7g/gal and Cal-Nit @ 2.5g/gal

 

[PharmHand]

Original Diesel isn't a pheno I found, it's the clone-only mother of Sour Diesel. It's the Diesel to rule all Diesels, and it loooves 1.6EC whether it's under small flouros or 750 DEs.

I grow tons of plants, clones and from seed, and never once has anything ever even flinched at 1.6EC. Seriously, give it a shot, I bet you'll be surprised.

fwiw that 1.6EC includes my 0.4EC tap water. The rest is Jack's @ 3.7g/gal and Cal-Nit @ 2.5g/gal

Let’s have a look at her. I’m curious to see if she looks like the original diesel that used to circulate my area 15 or so years ago. :)

 

[hyzerflip]

Let’s have a look at her. I’m curious to see if she looks like the original diesel that used to circulate my area 15 or so years ago. :)

If your area is Mendo, that's where my cut came from around 15 years ago. The person I got it from called it 'Headband'. The same dude ran a killer Afghani Bullrider, too.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Original Diesel isn't a pheno I found, it's the clone-only mother of Sour Diesel. It's the Diesel to rule all Diesels, and it loooves 1.6EC whether it's under small flouros or 750 DEs.

I grow tons of plants, clones and from seed, and never once has anything ever even flinched at 1.6EC. Seriously, give it a shot, I bet you'll be surprised.

fwiw that 1.6EC includes my 0.4EC tap water. The rest is Jack's @ 3.7g/gal and Cal-Nit @ 2.5g/gal

Got ya.

My strains have ECSD and lemon thai in them.

And i feed as little as possible to keep them healthy. But i grow in potting soil and feed as needed only in flower.

 

[hyzerflip]

Got ya.

My strains have ECSD and lemon thai in them.

And i feed as little as possible to keep them healthy. But i grow in potting soil and feed as needed only in flower.

If you're growing in soil how can you say you rarely get above 1.6EC? It's impossible to measure your nutrients plus whatever you have in your soil in terms of EC. If there are nutes in your soil AND you're adding 1.6EC you're feeding WAY more than 1.6EC.

 

[MIMedGrower]

If you're growing in soil how can you say you rarely get above 1.6EC? It's impossible to measure your nutrients plus whatever you have in your soil in terms of EC. If there are nutes in your soil AND you're adding 1.6EC you're feeding WAY more than 1.6EC.

Just potting soil like ocean forest. It runs out of nutes and i start fertilizing.

Its the same in pro mix or any peat/perlite mix.

I wasnt trying to start an argument. Most of my strains need less than you said is all.

 

[KushArcade]

Original Diesel isn't a pheno I found, it's the clone-only mother of Sour Diesel. It's the Diesel to rule all Diesels, and it loooves 1.6EC whether it's under small flouros or 750 DEs.

I grow tons of plants, clones and from seed, and never once has anything ever even flinched at 1.6EC. Seriously, give it a shot, I bet you'll be surprised.

fwiw that 1.6EC includes my 0.4EC tap water. The rest is Jack's @ 3.7g/gal and Cal-Nit @ 2.5g/gal

So I can drop the epsom salt without worrying about mag deficiencies?

 

[hyzerflip]

So I can drop the epsom salt without worrying about mag deficiencies?

Most tap has plenty of Mg, so unless you're using RO I wouldn't think you'd need to supplement.

 

[Hwmpunk]

Does anyone have an opinion on articles that support pumping as much p and k as the plant will allow in flower? Many state to bring ppms to 12-1600 if the plant allows, and that's how to bulk up the weight. I've seen cannabis business times articles show up to 800ppm k during flower. This cap formula works great, but I have to wonder why do so many veteran growers go above this 7-800 ppm?

Check out this article on nitrogen used with k to pump as much as possible.

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