Bonsai SCROG Training and Micro Managing

[Mr.GreenthumbOG]

We’re all sharks. At least we should be.
would you rather be the prey?
Wasn’t referring to you GGA

 

[gorillaglueaaron]

We’re all sharks. At least we should be.
would you rather be the prey?
Wasn’t referring to you GGA

I like to think of myself as one of those little fish that clean the whales. The whales being the cannabis plant.

 

[Mr.GreenthumbOG]

You mean the fish that live off the byproducts of sharks or whales? Cleaner fish?
Come on GGA. Be a dolphin at least.
I thought you were a .

 

[gorillaglueaaron]

You mean the fish that live off the byproducts of sharks or whales? Cleaner fish?
Come on GGA. Be a dolphin at least.
I thought you were a .

I didn't know that's what they did. I thought they just ate parasites off the whales or something. Let's not clog up this guys thread with us arguing about what kind of sea creature we are.

 

[Mr.GreenthumbOG]

I didn't know that's what they did. I thought they just ate parasites off the whales or something. Let's not clog up this guys thread with us arguing about what kind of sea creature we are.

Good point.
we will be on page 80 before we see a cola.

 

[growsince79]

Its not easy getting 2 zips/sqft. The best way I've found to make it fit is 3-5 colas/sqft -not 16 "miniature colas" aka little buds. And it shouldn't take 7 months.

 

[Miiikke]

I don't think sharks are trying to feed on anyone's mistakes. Just trying to help the kids out is all. I'm about reality not vision. You don't get 16 colas per sqft. 16 little buds ok.

How much would you say makes it a cola? I think I can get a quarter dry at 6” kr J could go as tall as I want, you tell me what justifies a cola and Ill get it on each one no problem just so you can say I have 144 “colas in 6.25 sq ft surface area

 

[Miiikke]

You should have stuck to calling it your meditative bonsai garden. Come what May. Or most likly, may not.
not talked about “colas” or pounds. Or even grams, or asked for help.
there are sharks on here, and they will feed on the easy prey.
I wish you luck grower.

Ok its my meditative bonsai garden, I mean it really is I just want to get as much as I can, And I will really enjoy I get MASSIVE weight st harvest blow yall all away! We can dream right️

 

[Miiikke]

This seems more like a form of art. Or some type of meditative growing style. Interesting though.
In my honest and humble opinion, this seems like a waste of A LOT of time and I have a hard time estimating a pound. Unless you’re growing it another three feet. Maybe a quarter of that if you’re lucky.
I really hope I’m wrong.
I’ll check back in a year to see if you are flowering yet.

give me 4 months and itll be dry, I have a plan lol, and thankyou! I am enjoying it is very therapeutic so win win, Im sure everyone is curious ti exactly what I will end up with

 

[Miiikke]

You must be mistaken. There are 3 possibilities with these lights if your plant is surviving:

1. They are not actually 80w and probably more like 10-20 at the most each.

2. The plants are getting some kind of extreme amount of CO2 and you are an incredible grower and have every parameter perfect without any probelms at all. I find this highly unlikely since the plant would be 5 times the size at least by now if this were true.

3. The lights are extremely bad quality and are turning 75% of their energy into heat. This I also find very unlikely since it seems like your temps aren't bad and I don't see an industrial air conditioner.

Im sorry but yes they are, they also sell 8 true watts for cheaper, Ill measure and show you, 80 true watts each bulb, just as good as any true led watt, unless you can tell me why the purple light it gives off matters and you cant, and argue me the fact that I have 144 tops at 12 weeks that will all be colas with some those of intelligence and Ill respect everything you say from bow on, do you see the size of the stem?

 

[Miiikke]

Its not easy getting 2 zips/sqft. The best way I've found to make it fit is 3-5 colas/sqft -not 16 "miniature colas" aka little buds. And it shouldn't take 7 months.

Ok thanks

 

[gorillaglueaaron]

Im sorry but yes they are, they also sold 8 true watts for cheaper, Ill measure and show you, 80 watts each bulb, just as good as any true led watt, unless you can tell me why the purple light it gives off matters and you cant, and argue me the fact that I have 144 tops at 12 weeks that will all be colas with some those of intelligence and Ill respect everything you say from bow on, do you see the size of the stem?View attachment 1102414

The plant can't physically handle 640w of LED at this size and age. You want me to explain it? here it is.

umols/second (PPF or photosythetic photon flux) is a measurement of how much light that a plant can use a light produces. umols/m2/second (PPFD or photosynthetic photon flux density) is a measurement of how much light that a plant can use is hitting a certain spot at a given time. DLI (daily light integral) is the amount of plant usable light that hits a certain spot per day and is calculated using this formula: ppfd*3600*H/1,000,000. H being the number of hours the lights are on per day.

Most LED lights produce over 2 PPF/w so let's go with 1.75 to be on the low side. If you have 640w, that would come out to 1114 PPF. It doesn't seem like you have a tent so a lot of that light is wasted so let's say you only get 50% of that light which is also on the low side since your lights are only 1 ft away. at 1.5ftx1.5ft, 1114 umol and 50% usage, you will get an average ppfd of over 2600ppfd. Now just a quick side note, as a general rule, you should not go above 1000ppfd during flower when the plants need more light since they get less time with the lights on. It gets more complicated with supplemental CO2 but you don't have that. Ok so let's plug these numbers into our equation. 2600*3600*18(I assume)/1,000,000=168 DLI. If you are very skilled, you can grow under 60 DLI. Anything above that is pushing it. So now you understand why those lights can't be 80w each.


If you look back a few pages, I explained blurples. They aren't too bad but I don't like them and in my opinion, full spectrums are better. Not that you can't grow under blurples btw. I only switched to full spectrum because my blurple wasn't bright enough and I needed a new light so I went for full spec since I prefer it.

Go look at the stem in the pic I sent last page.

Edit: Never mind, you can't see it. Go look at it on my profile. A reminder, my plant is younger. More leaves means more photosynthesis and more photosynthesis means a thicker stalk.

 

[Mr.GreenthumbOG]

give me 4 months and itll be dry, I have a plan lol, and thankyou! I am enjoying it is very therapeutic so win win, Im sure everyone is curious ti exactly what I will end up with

Hahaha. This one is 107days old today from seed drop. like the amount of time you’ve been in veg. I’ve got 6 like it with minimal effort.
that’s why I said play the therapy card with the bonsai, as your not filling jars in a timely fashion with that style. that’s why people wonder more why your doing it, not how.

 

[Miiikke]

The plant can't physically handle 640w of LED at this size and age. You want me to explain it? here it is.

umols/second (PPF or photosythetic photon flux) is a measurement of how much light that a plant can use a light produces. umols/m2/second (PPFD or photosynthetic photon flux density) is a measurement of how much light that a plant can use is hitting a certain spot at a given time. DLI (daily light integral) is the amount of plant usable light that hits a certain spot per day and is calculated using this formula: ppfd*3600*H/1,000,000. H being the number of hours the lights are on per day.

Most LED lights produce over 2 PPF/w so let's go with 1.75 to be on the low side. If you have 640w, that would come out to 1114 PPF. It doesn't seem like you have a tent so a lot of that light is wasted so let's say you only get 50% of that light which is also on the low side since your lights are only 1 ft away. at 1.5ftx1.5ft, 1114 umol and 50% usage, you will get an average ppfd of over 2600ppfd. Now just a quick side note, as a general rule, you should not go above 1000ppfd during flower when the plants need more light since they get less time with the lights on. It gets more complicated with supplemental CO2 but you don't have that. Ok so let's plug these numbers into our equation. 2600*3600*18(I assume)/1,000,000=168 DLI. If you are very skilled, you can grow under 60 DLI. Anything above that is pushing it. So now you understand why those lights can't be 80w each.


If you look back a few pages, I explained blurples. They aren't too bad but I don't like them and in my opinion, full spectrums are better. Not that you can't grow under blurples btw. I only switched to full spectrum because my blurple wasn't bright enough and I needed a new light so I went for full spec since I prefer it.

Go look at the stem in the pic I sent last page.

Edit: Never mind, you can't see it. Go look at it on my profile. A reminder, my plant is younger. More leaves means more photosynthesis and more photosynthesis means a thicker stalk.

I dont agree, we’ll see I guess, thanks for the info tho!

 

[M0nStarNuggety]

 

[gorillaglueaaron]

I dont agree, we’ll see I guess, thanks for the info tho!

Ok buddy, I'm really trying to be as nice as possible to you here but you're making it hard. How can you possibly disagree? I went through the science with you. I know the limits of a plant according to science.

 

[Miiikke]

Ok buddy, I'm really trying to be as nice as possible to you here but you're making it hard. How can you possibly disagree? I went through the science with you. I know the limits of a plant according to science.

Ill read through it again, I started with 8 true watt bulbs 65 equivalent, before I learned the equivalent, for seedling in early veg in my first grow, I found 80 watt bulbs that are suppose to be 80 true, idk how many extra, if that is the science then you are answering my question about my lights, not the purple color but you said you dont have a problem with it. I will
Measure, I dont know if I agree with that science but I found the same lights somewhere else and it was listed vaguely with true wattage draw. So if that is correct then thank you cause I have been trying to get thag answer for a while, Im gonna setup an app on my phone and try to measure or, get a meter to measure from wall, and Ill update, cause Ill still have time to add more lights and maybe return these under false advertisement!

 

[Brotofsky]

, I’m in for the show!

 

[Miiikke]

Ill read through it again, I started with 8 true watt bulbs 65 equivalent, before I learned the equivalent, for seedling in early veg in my first grow, I found 80 watt bulbs that are suppose to be 80 true, idk how many estimated equivalent*, if that is the science then you are answering my question about my lights, not the purple color but you said you dont have a problem with it. I will measure watts, I dont know if I agree with that science but I found the same lights somewhere else and it was listed vaguely with true wattage draw. So if that is correct then thank you cause I have been trying to get thag answer for a while, Im gonna setup an app on my phone and try to measure or, get a meter to measure from wall, and Ill update, cause Ill still have time to add more lights and maybe return these under false advertisement!

Idk how many equivalent* they supposedly are for the 80 true watts, but it said 80w draw. I hope not cause I already have 12 of them and was about to get 4 more I know a cfl neutralizes the color if that is a problem so if watts are there from the wall I should be good right, and if I have 560 less then a ft above it right now and its not sizzled up, you’ll say your unquoted science is wrong? How many true led watts would you say that I have off of the picture? I was reluctant and protective of my baby lol, but I will take your much appreciated advice to help my grow as much as possible, cause some things I dont know yet, I just think, but I will measure that soon to verify what your saying! Thanks!

 

[Miiikke]

The plant can't physically handle 640w of LED at this size and age. You want me to explain it? here it is.

umols/second (PPF or photosythetic photon flux) is a measurement of how much light that a plant can use a light produces. umols/m2/second (PPFD or photosynthetic photon flux density) is a measurement of how much light that a plant can use is hitting a certain spot at a given time. DLI (daily light integral) is the amount of plant usable light that hits a certain spot per day and is calculated using this formula: ppfd*3600*H/1,000,000. H being the number of hours the lights are on per day.

Most LED lights produce over 2 PPF/w so let's go with 1.75 to be on the low side. If you have 640w, that would come out to 1114 PPF. It doesn't seem like you have a tent so a lot of that light is wasted so let's say you only get 50% of that light which is also on the low side since your lights are only 1 ft away. at 1.5ftx1.5ft, 1114 umol and 50% usage, you will get an average ppfd of over 2600ppfd. Now just a quick side note, as a general rule, you should not go above 1000ppfd during flower when the plants need more light since they get less time with the lights on. It gets more complicated with supplemental CO2 but you don't have that. Ok so let's plug these numbers into our equation. 2600*3600*18(I assume)/1,000,000=168 DLI. If you are very skilled, you can grow under 60 DLI. Anything above that is pushing it. So now you understand why those lights can't be 80w each.


If you look back a few pages, I explained blurples. They aren't too bad but I don't like them and in my opinion, full spectrums are better. Not that you can't grow under blurples btw. I only switched to full spectrum because my blurple wasn't bright enough and I needed a new light so I went for full spec since I prefer it.

Go look at the stem in the pic I sent last page.

Edit: Never mind, you can't see it. Go look at it on my profile. A reminder, my plant is younger. More leaves means more photosynthesis and more photosynthesis means a thicker stalk.

Ok so I read through it very thoroughly and thank you for taking the time to give ne all of those equations. I think from what you said I am close to the watts I think, like I said I have 560 up too, I think Im pushing it tho, cause I stay constantly as close as 80* will let me, i have them wrapped in aluminum foil and they are directly above so aim not waisting much, but I do see what could be more of light burn but that May have been distracted by a few defficiencies that have already improved. I will use your equation to maintain close to the max levels you speak of by easily lifting the lights if needed. I have never found that or knew that so thank you! I ask alot of questions on here and tha was by far the best answer Ive had. You cleared up alot at once. But I think a bit of closed mindness here is limiting you to see the potential and the success of this. I believe my environment is very well and now hopefully my nutes, cause I keep telling you guys its growing fast, but Im growing out on a micro scale, which is hard to do and impossible without having defoliation, you’ll see what as I mean as it continues to grow up, Im already lifting off the screen fast, colas are stsrting to form now but just the base, the whole top 6” of each full cola will be about another foot or so above where they are now and you’ll see more of what you are use to.