Using Silica - what's the real scoop? Contradictory info everywhere

[ninjadip]

I just found this really good scientific article on various plants and their uptake of silica.
While it doesn't mention cannabis specifically, it is still a very good article with over 20 links to other silica related studies.
2005


Abstract of the study: The accumulation of silicon (Si) in the shoots varies considerably among plant species, but the mechanism responsible for this variation is poorly understood. The uptake system of Si was investigated in terms of the radial transport from the external solution to the root cortical cells and the release of Si from the cortical cells to the xylem in rice, cucumber, and tomato...

Uptake system of silicon in different plant species

Abstract. The accumulation of silicon (Si) in the shoots varies considerably among plant species, but the mechanism responsible for this variation is poorly und

academic.oup.com

fyi this study is not pushing any products, its not comparing one to the other, just a really interesting study on the uptake of silicon and how it is distributed among various plants. It is cool that they find that rice has an active uptake process (as well as passive diffusion) that will allow the plant to utilize a lot more silicon compared to tomato plants that only use passive transportation methods of silicon.

There is one very exciting bit of note, (at least to me!) about how they have isolated this gene in rice and the ambitious prospect of being able to incorporate this into other plants! Real nerd stuff.

Silicon is abundant in soil. However, most plants, especially dicots, are unable to accumulate a large amount of Si in the shoot from the soil. Therefore, they do not benefit from Si. Recently, a gene controlling the xylem loading of Si has been mapped to chromosome 2 of rice (Ma et al., 2004). Cloning of this gene from rice may be useful in genetically modifying the Si uptake ability of other plant species, thereby enhancing the resistance of plants to multiple stresses. (from study link above)

I'm trying to imagine what that could do for cannabis... there are of course pros and cons if scientists were able to do this (if not done yet, paper is 2005).

 

[Glassdub]

There is this by Bruce Bugbee, rides the fence a bit.

Effect of Silicon on Plant Growth and Drought Stress Tolerance

Silicone is a silicon-containing synthetic polymer. Silicon is a metalloid chemical element. Silicon is not considered an essential nutrient for plants, but it is typically abundant in soils and can be taken up in large amounts by plant roots. Silicon is known to have beneficial effects when...

digitalcommons.usu.edu

 

[Garbage_bear]

I used silica blast during veg with my living soil grow this year in the green house. I quit adding it during flower. I just had two plants stems split from weight when I sprayed some green cleaner in them. So I didn’t see any trunk like wooden stems everyone talks about.

 

[Glassdub]

I used silica blast during veg with my living soil grow this year in the green house. I quit adding it during flower. I just had two plants stems split from weight when I sprayed some green cleaner in them. So I didn’t see any trunk like wooden stems everyone talks about.

Do you mist down with water prior to cut? I had to hit a plant again after finding a resurgence with actual bud webbing, just trying to get to the end, was hoping for a week on Monday but may need more.

 

[ninjadip]

There is this by Bruce Bugbee, rides the fence a bit.

Effect of Silicon on Plant Growth and Drought Stress Tolerance

Silicone is a silicon-containing synthetic polymer. Silicon is a metalloid chemical element. Silicon is not considered an essential nutrient for plants, but it is typically abundant in soils and can be taken up in large amounts by plant roots. Silicon is known to have beneficial effects when...

digitalcommons.usu.edu

i'm reading it now, it says it has been approved by Bruce. Not sure how much he had to do with it.

Loving this graph from that study you linked! proving the increased stability of mono-silicic acid (aka ortho-silicic) over the other forms of silicone ( this is marked on the graph by the near perfect vertical line at the top). Most products have silicate bound to potassium (K₂O₃Si), and only a handful have MSA/Ortho. I am not a scientist by far, I do not see K₂O₃Si on the chart, but perhaps someone can clue in on what that breaks down to that is on the chart.

At a lower pH, silicic acid (H4SiO4) is more soluble and less likely to dissociate. -from paper

Does this correlate to a better stability for hydro users? who typically have a lower ph than soil.

 

[Glassdub]

I used silica blast during veg with my living soil grow this year in the green house. I quit adding it during flower. I just had two plants stems split from weight when I sprayed some green cleaner in them. So I didn’t see any trunk like wooden stems everyone talks about.

One of my plant bases.

 

[AirHammer]

View attachment 1287805One of my plant bases.

I start tying up before things get heavy. To alleviate breakage the best I can. A lot of them were pointed towards the ground before a chance to tie them up better. From the gusty winds.
I find it helps with added pliability and for keeping pests like powdery mildew at bay.
Maybe you are expecting too much from it. It won't turn stems in to wood per say. But will toughen them up.

Read some literature on what it does exactly, and what to expect from silica.

We had harsh winds for hours with gusts to 70 and 80.
I started using silica concentrate at week 1 and continued all the way through.

Not a single limb got busted on this 12 ft tall plant littered with heavy colas everywhere.

In the past I'd loose a few on the average (prior to being introduced to silica additives).
I intend to continue using silica. It is a main staple in my garden. In conjunction with a full spectrum of organic additives + a calcium and magnesium supplement. I try to achieve a balance nutrient regiment. It all helps imo.

 

[Glassdub]

i'm reading it now, it says it has been approved by Bruce. Not sure how much he had to do with it.

He details here:

I can't get the time stamp to work but its at 1:02:00
or there's a direct link in the description.

 

[ninjadip]

He details here:

I can't get the time stamp to work but its at 1:02:00
or there's a direct link in the description.

Cool, I was referring to the white paper. He is in there as Approved by, not done by, that's it, no biggie. I read the paper already so I'm good on the video. I believe I've seen this one already, talks about darkness before harvest and other controversial growers habits. Thanks tho.
Really good stuff.

 

[ninjadip]

So I got Alchemist Stout MSA two days ago, and maybe it's just me but I swear I can see the difference from five micro doses, separated by hours, of it that equaled one application. I'm in hydro, and as silicon is an immobile nutrient i thought this might help to get it to various places of new growth, and it was the very first application of something new, so I always baby it to see what happens.
Silicon got my vote.

 

[Dietrich]

.

• ***MIXING INSTRUCTIONS***
  ***When preparing concentrated stock solutions it is recommended to only use very pure distilled or deionized water. Prior to diluting the potassium silicate, raise the pH of the water to above 11.3 pH with potassium hydroxide. Starting with half the final solution volume of distilled water with pH >11.3, add the required potassium silicate, stir until completely dissolved. Now top off to the final volume with more distilled water with pH >11.3

somebody explain to me what this means? I need to buy potassium hydroxide ? and when I mix it to store(1 gallon) I start with 1/2 gallon of distilled then add all agsil stir completely then add rest of the 1/2 distilled to the mix? The potassium hydroxide throws me off or I’ve read this 200 times and it doesn’t make any sense lol
thank You in advance

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

somebody explain to me what this means? I need to buy potassium hydroxide ? and when I mix it to store(1 gallon) I start with 1/2 gallon of distilled then add all agsil stir completely then add rest of the 1/2 distilled to the mix? The potassium hydroxide throws me off or I’ve read this 200 times and it doesn’t make any sense lol
thank You in advance

Use General Hydroponics PH Up in place of Potassium Hydroxide.

1. Add 1/2 gal. distilled water

2. Using GH PH Up, raise PH to approx. 11.3

3. Add 560 grams of Agsil 16H, stir/agitate until completely dissolved.

4. Add 1/2 gal. distilled water PH’d at 11.3

5. 1 gallon stock 7.8% potassium silicate completed.

P.S. I use 2ml/gallon in my recirculating ebb and flow system. 2ml/gal = 40 ppm SiO2 (approximately)

 

[Dietrich]

Use General Hydroponics PH Up in place of Potassium Hydroxide.

1. Add 1/2 gal. distilled water

2. Using GH PH Up, raise PH to approx. 11.3

3. Add 560 grams of Agsil 16H, stir/agitate until completely dissolved.

4. Add 1/2 gal. distilled water PH’d at 11.3

5. 1 gallon stock 7.8% potassium silicate completed.

P.S. I use 2ml/gallon in my recirculating ebb and flow system. 2ml/gal = 40 ppm SiO2 (approximately

perfect and you add 2ml/gallon after you mix jacks ?

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

perfect and you add 2ml/gallon after you mix jacks ?

No, you have to add silica first.

If you add silica after you add your nutrients, the PH will sky rocket and the nutrients will fall out of solution.

I add silica first, wait, then I add jacks.

 

[testiclees]

Here, take a sip of legit research

There's enough wretchedly misguided stoner bullshit in this thread to top dress all of humboldt county.

 

[ninjadip]

Here, take a sip of legit research

There's enough wretchedly misguided stoner bullshit in this thread to top dress all of humboldt county.

i listened to enough of this and didn't find anything in there to make this thread "misguided bullshit"
The guest mentions the benefits of the three types of silicates: potassium, calcium, and sodium. I really wanted to hear about potassium silicate versus mono-silicic acid. The host does mention that mono-silicic acid is the plant available form and that it is not stable and will turn to gel if accumulated. I have used mono-silicic acid and have never seen any gel in the DWC bucket.

The host mentions the benefits of silicates, so what is the "bs" here?

 

[ninjadip]

i'm reading it now, it says it has been approved by Bruce. Not sure how much he had to do with it.

Loving this graph from that study you linked! proving the increased stability of mono-silicic acid (aka ortho-silicic) over the other forms of silicone ( this is marked on the graph by the near perfect vertical line at the top). Most products have silicate bound to potassium (K₂O₃Si), and only a handful have MSA/Ortho. I am not a scientist by far, I do not see K₂O₃Si on the chart, but perhaps someone can clue in on what that breaks down to that is on the chart.

View attachment 1287791

Does this correlate to a better stability for hydro users? who typically have a lower ph than soil.

@BehindEnemyLines After reading your instructions for Agsil 16H about getting the pH > 11 I went back and looked at this graph and it totally lines up with your instructions. It shows how potassium silicate is more active at higher pH levels.

It's so cool when science makes sense lol

 

[testiclees]

i listened to enough of this and didn't find anything in there to make this thread "misguided bullshit"
The guest mentions the benefits of the three types of silicates: potassium, calcium, and sodium. I really wanted to hear about potassium silicate versus mono-silicic acid. The host does mention that mono-silicic acid is the plant available form and that it is not stable and will turn to gel if accumulated. I have used mono-silicic acid and have never seen any gel in the DWC bucket.

The host mentions the benefits of silicates, so what is the "bs" here?

You are anosmic. Theres at least one turd per page. Pg1: "Silica should be from silicone dioxide and is best absorbed by foliar spray."

 

[Perrin6363]

I mix silica, then calmag, then nutes. I never wait an hour. The results are obvious; stronger stems. I stop using silica around week 7 flower. I don't use humic acid, studies show it significantly decreases thc.

What about fulvic acid?

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

@BehindEnemyLines After reading your instructions for Agsil 16H about getting the pH > 11 I went back and looked at this graph and it totally lines up with your instructions. It shows how potassium silicate is more active at higher pH levels.

It's so cool when science makes sense lol

View attachment 1299501

You’re on it, I like it .

That Agsil-16H, when used properly, is a wonderful source of silicate and it’s stupid cheap.