Light burn or deficiency progressing ?

[Week4Bytch]

Have you seen his meter? I think that all the reads are totally inaccurate, those soil meters are a total joke. Making our assumption of PH imbalance totally inaccurate.

Lol, this we agree on. I've talked to him a little privately, just trying to help and we both have strong opinions on how to grow. I follow the "Build A Soil" way with deep philosophical opinions on the matter, much like Jeremy on his website and youtube page.

I guess its a matter of what organic means to you....You can pretty easily use both of them, to me its like fish or ammonium nitrate, same same its all the same particle of N that will ultimately be up-taken

yeah but one feeds the plant directly which is easy to over do and the other feeds the soil that in turn feeds the plant when it needs it, not force feed like the bottled stuff, so not the same, same...

 

[ezenzyme]

Check out my previous threads, i am a serious OrGanic grower mate; Jemery at BAS Tad at KIS tim wilson, clakamus coot, and all the other who paved the way!!!
If epsom salt isnt a salt then; potassium sulfate isnt a salt either!!!!
Potassium sulfate or potassium sulphate, also called sulphate of potash, arcanite, or archaically potash of sulfur, is the inorganic compound with formula K₂SO₄, a white water-soluble solid. It is commonly used in fertilizers, providing both potassium and sulfur.
SO potassium sulfate is not a salt its simply a white water-soluble solid....but IMO still coined as a "salt". Its really more about how processed its is beacuse most of these inorganic salts come from organic sources..
Lol its just the the way the compound is constituted. Ammonium nitrate and cal nitrate are both salts and have nothing to do with table salt.....
for the record, not a single "salt" grower uses table salt..............
I mean the availability of the nutrient varies but something like fish is super readily available almost as available as ammonium nitrate you can totally burn your plants with too much fish or feather meal etc. By same same i mean that all nutrients that a plant uptakes are the same nutrients, the structure of the N or P or K molecule is literally exactly the same as "salts" after the microbes get done with it.
neither here nor there were totally off topic hi jacking this thread lol!
Did ya read my assmessent of the watering/root bound situation? I think i got it properly diagnosed but non of the real ogs popped in yet just amateur hour with random guesses

 

[Week4Bytch]

Check out my previous threads, i am a serious OrGanic grower mate; Jemery at BAS Tad at KIS tim wilson, clakamus coot, and all the other who paved the way!!!
If epsom salt isnt a salt then; potassium sulfate isnt a salt either!!!!
Potassium sulfate or potassium sulphate, also called sulphate of potash, arcanite, or archaically potash of sulfur, is the inorganic compound with formula K₂SO₄, a white water-soluble solid. It is commonly used in fertilizers, providing both potassium and sulfur.
SO potassium sulfate is not a salt its simply a white water-soluble solid....but IMO still coined as a "salt". Its really more about how processed its is beacuse most of these inorganic salts come from organic sources..
Lol its just the the way the compound is constituted. Ammonium nitrate and cal nitrate are both salts and have nothing to do with table salt.....
for the record, not a single "salt" grower uses table salt..............
I mean the availability of the nutrient varies but something like fish is super readily available almost as available as ammonium nitrate you can totally burn your plants with too much fish or feather meal etc. By same same i mean that all nutrients that a plant uptakes are the same nutrients, the structure of the N or P or K molecule is literally exactly the same as "salts" after the microbes get done with it.
neither here nor there were totally off topic hi jacking this thread lol!
Did ya read my assmessent of the watering/root bound situation? I think i got it properly diagnosed but non of the real ogs popped in yet just amateur hour with random guesses

I think we agree with more than we disagree on, so I'll leave it at that. Poor guy probably will want to quit growing after all this..lmfao, the OP never came back either..lol, anyways, hope Zen dude can figure this out. Truth be told I still grab the bottle sometimes but am slowly getting away from it, just have 2 bottle of cal mag (yes two) and bloom yellow bottles to throw out, (but they cost me money!) Jeremy says "don't be on the fence between which style to grow with, because then you have both to fall off on your ass" I might have paraphrased that a little. The good thing about soil growing is the fungi and bacteria feed the plants for you with the exact nutrient it needs when it needs it, no guessing involved. Just add water as they say. Keep the dry amendments to a minimum so that the bacteria/fungi can work, add to much and the go dormant. Teaming With Microbes is a great book to get a handle on soil health and it's biology. watering ,rootbound, his leaves aren't drooping like they are bogged down, and the leaves would be a solid yellowing instead of the magnesium/potassium looking type of deficiency. That's why I recommended the epsom salt (magnesium sulfate), it's an organic remedy for magnesium deficiency. But if he starts using the bottle stuff, then the bacteria will die off (if he has any) and nothing there to break any organic amendment down to a usable nutrient. he probably should then just brew a compost tea and kick that off to start a nice bacteria bloom so that all the nutrients he has in the soil can be used up. Do you think a compost tea would help? He's done with us I just know it..LMFAO.....

 

[RootsRuler]

Not all bottled nutrients kill off your microbiome. When I spoke to GH's Rep and Chemist years back they had told me that their bottled nutrients were fully compatible with organic soils. How true that is I don't know but what I do know is I've run entire grows on bottled nutrients and pulled root balls covered in fungus.

 

[Week4Bytch]

Not all bottled nutrients kill off your microbiome. When I spoke to GH's Rep and Chemist years back they had told me that their bottled nutrients were fully compatible with organic soils. How true that is I don't know but what I do know is I've run entire grows on bottled nutrients and pulled root balls covered in fungus.

I hope so, I'm really not wanting to throw out them Australian Yellow Bottle A & B out. The thing I'm learning is keeping the balance in the soil is very important. adding a little to much of any of the N P K will throw the whole system off and your up shit creek without a paddle. Synthetic nutes is what your not wanting in the soil if your doing "Organic". Too easy to throw that balance off if you do that. Like those power bloom formulas of 0-30-32... in organic.... lockout city.

 

[Zen_Seeker]

He's done with us I just know it..LMFAO.....

@Week4Bytch
@ezenzyme

Not done, just done for the day. Reading what you posted and trying not to do to much at once and make things worse. I can’t do anymore until I water/feed tomorrow.

You both may be right. Trixie reminded me that at least some soil I used might be old reused soil I haven’t cleaned yet. Same buckets side by side and I might have made a mistake, maybe. That’s why I flushed. Soil and run off was PH7 then. This was my first attempt to keep it as organic as I could but got off to a bad & wrong start.

Also sitting in the small chamber for over a month or two, getting cut in half twice, and waiting for the other tent to be harvested probably did make the pot root bound, just not like I’ve seen in a plastic pot. I know the root in the big pot go wide and deep as I see and feel them when working on her. Could be an issue?

Yes, shitty PH meter, new one on a slow boat from China, literally. Glass digital. Arrives February 13th. The shitty one is actually not bad. Repeatable results from tests but easy to get fake results. You have to know what range you should be in. Need water, nutes, & meter all at same temp. Leave anything to be tested after mixing to sit for a while before reading PH. Soil needs to be soaked before PH meter works. Sometimes I need to soak in warm water for a bit before PH needle works. For moisture I find it’s correct if I leave it for a few minutes. Keep it clean & dry. It’s not great but it works.

Any way. As long as you keep assisting I’ll keep trying, poor mans tools and all.

No ones noted the “claw” yet. From the pics. I’m still worried about over watering. Dollar store plates are under the clones since day one. I’ll have to find something for the 25L pots.

For health reasons I can’t quit growing. Just need to do it a little better and cheaper. Hardest thing is leaving the plants alone!

It’s almost 11pm so I’ll reread the last few posts and reply as asked/needed inline.

Don’t forget I added 10g of Dynomyco Mycorrhizal.

Update in the morning after I feed her:

 

[Week4Bytch]

@Week4Bytch
@ezenzyme

Not done, just done for the day. Reading what you posted and trying not to do to much at once and make things worse. I can’t do anymore until I water/feed tomorrow.

You both may be right. Trixie reminded me that at least some soil I used might be old reused soil I haven’t cleaned yet. Same buckets side by side and I might have made a mistake, maybe. That’s why I flushed. Soil and run off was PH7 then. This was my first attempt to keep it as organic as I could but got off to a bad & wrong start.

Also sitting in the small chamber for over a month or two, getting cut in half twice, and waiting for the other tent to be harvested probably did make the pot root bound, just not like I’ve seen in a plastic pot. I know the root in the big pot go wide and deep as I see and feel them when working on her. Could be an issue?

Yes, shitty PH meter, new one on a slow boat from China, literally. Glass digital. Arrives February 13th. The shitty one is actually not bad. Repeatable results from tests but easy to get fake results. You have to know what range you should be in. Need water, nutes, & meter all at same temp. Leave anything to be tested after mixing to sit for a while before reading PH. Soil needs to be soaked before PH meter works. Sometimes I need to soak in warm water for a bit before PH needle works. For moisture I find it’s correct if I leave it for a few minutes. Keep it clean & dry. It’s not great but it works.

Any way. As long as you keep assisting I’ll keep trying, poor mans tools and all.

No ones noted the “claw” yet. From the pics. I’m still worried about over watering. Dollar store plates are under the clones since day one. I’ll have to find something for the 25L pots.

For health reasons I can’t quit growing. Just need to do it a little better and cheaper. Hardest thing is leaving the plants alone!

It’s almost 11pm so I’ll reread the last few posts and reply as asked/needed inline.

Don’t forget I added 10g of Dynomyco Mycorrhizal.

Update in the morning after I feed her:

If anything get larger pots. for your tent maybe three 7 gallon pots. or two ten gallon pots. Bigger roots = Bigger fruits. (In Organic) I missed the 5 litter pots, that's just a gallon!? wow... missed that. Get bigger pots my friend, growing will be easier.

 

[Zen_Seeker]

I missed the 5 litter pots, that's just a gallon!? wow... missed that. Get bigger pots my friend, growing will be easier.

I use the 5L pots for the 1x3 zones. I can fit them in well. Then they move to 25L for the 3x3. It’s easier to manage this way.

The 5L are more like 6.5L, that’s close to 2G. As I replace them I can get larger. So far they lasted 5 or 6 grows with just gentle washing by hand.

 

[Zen_Seeker]

Up late, didn’t make it down until after 8am. Fed her 6+ litres, little less than 2G, of the FF Grow Big with epsom. (10ml/cc per 4L FFGB.) The tent went dark at the end so I can’t say if I made it to run off or just spilled in the dark. Either way I have a mess to clean in 6hrs.

She’s still growing. Either the epsom litre of water or light foliar I gave it yesterday helped or It’s wishful thinking. We’ll see at noon when I can take pics.

BTW arguing/discussing isn’t a problem. I’m learning why you do what you do. I don’t like to blindly follow directions. This saves me asking why or sifting through long dumbed down answers. You’re direct and passionate to each other with your replies. Good enough for me.

Anyhow update with pics later. Insomnia sucks!

Thanks guys!

 

[ezenzyme]

Man, over watering isnt even on your radar!!!! Over watering happens when you water too often, not too much. neither of which your doing. So with that in mind, water her a liter at a time with approx 10min in between until you see a tiny little bit coming out the bottom. Then you know your soils fully hydrated, keep in mind how much water you used and start using that much daily.

 

[RootsRuler]

If you want to be sure and wet the entire media bottom watering will make sure the entire media is wet. Sometimes watering from the top will create water columns and you'll see runoff even though the media isn't entirely wet.

 

[Zen_Seeker]

Life got in the way yesterday but I was able to get out today and grab some tools.

Also the PH meter arrived a month early. But no sample fluids or batteries! I’ll have to get them tomorrow.

Here are some pics I promised.

Okay, I keep getting parsing response failed. Later I guess.

Picked up 20” saucers & 18.5” elevators. Bit of a trick getting it under the scrogged pot but done. Now I can feed/water to runoff and test.

Since I’ve given up on this run being solids organic the saucer gives me options for feeding as well.

Still need to read over yesterday’s replies and post pics when I’m able. Seem this site gets real busy at times.

Plants growing better again, like before the flush. Still not sure if colour is coming back but I think so.

 

[Zen_Seeker]

Able to upload now...

New PH & PPM meters.

Just put in new saucer & elevator. The boss had to check things out.

Next I have to fix the scrog.

Better. Will need it again in a few hours when it settles.

Clones still fine.

Need to pick up some calibration fluids then water to runoff tomorrow.

Plant looked greener and happier until the rescrog. Need to defoliate a bit when she’s rested. Glad I cloned her, she seems hardy.

 

[Zen_Seeker]

Looking better after second watering/feed. PH 6.1 / 6.3

New saucer and elevator. 20” & 18.5”
Runoff was PH5.5 yellowing seems to be arrested.

FFGB & epsom is all I’ve used last two feedings. 10ml/cc per 4L. Added 1L every 10 minutes until runoff started @ 7L. 600ml runoff at PH 5.5

 

[Zen_Seeker]

Hmm...

What’s the best way to use my new meters? (Already calibrated to 3.99/4.01 & 6.98/7.02 based on MANY tests.)

Check PH of water & food in shot glass or containers. But for dirt make a hole, put in meter, water tiny bit (distilled) until hole is filled. Scoop out a cup of dirt & add distilled water until a slurry. Throw at wall as my hand shakes to much stirring and I keep clinking the glass & probe.

 

[ezenzyme]

Okay here we go!! Your going to want to monitor your in PPM constantly and keep your in PH around 6.5-6.8, as well as watching your ppms in. What was your feeding at today? For fast results in the N department you can foliar with FF GB at 150 ppm over base. Whats your base PPM and PH and source btw? I would start bumping up the GB by 50-75 ppm every second feeding until their color comes back and possibly even a tiny lil leaf tip burn.
We seem to have arrested the yellowing on the new growth but still working on the dramatic clawing. Your light adjustments will help with the symptoms as well as slow down the plant til you get it figured.
if runoff occurred at around 7L i would rock 5.5 or sixL to prevent runoff while definitely watering fully, the plant will better uptake it if you do two waterings instead of one but your ten min spacing should allow for plenty of time to absorb. Stop watering till run off.
Theres really no way you can transplant? Ballpark 50 bones could outfit you with a 25gal pot plus good ol mushroom compost, or even old dirt with manure or worm. To be honest with you i am concerned that if the problem of roots isn't directly delt with that you may be fighting a uphill battle this whole run. Possible? absolutely! Pain in the? Totally! Good learning experience either way!
Was the pic snapped after watering?

 

[ezenzyme]

So after checking out a few threads...Ya got some LEDS up in there? Running 40percent RH on that meter there? Thats a huge part of it, your going to want to be running in the 70 percent hum area some where around 70deg/70hum but have to run your VPDs to get the precise zones. Your plants cannot eat without proper hum levels under LEDs

 

[Zen_Seeker]

So after checking out a few threads...Ya got some LEDS up in there? Running 40percent RH on that meter there? Thats a huge part of it, your going to want to be running in the 70 percent hum area some where around 70deg/70hum but have to run your VPDs to get the precise zones. Your plants cannot eat without proper hum levels under LEDs

Humidity is usually around 50-60% most of the time. It drops to 40-50 when I open it to work on her. (I did forget to turn on the fan controller twice last week and it hit 89%)

I have the auto on set for 28c & 65% I’ll bop that to 70% now.

I have a Photontek SQ300w, made for a 3x3. I’m going up/down between 50%-75%. Only supports 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%.

Here’s a pic of normal running fan & humidity.

 

[Zen_Seeker]

Okay here we go!! Your going to want to monitor your in PPM constantly and keep your in PH around 6.5-6.8, as well as watching your ppms in.

PPM is new to me. Know what it is but not exactly why we use it. Tested my tap water and it’s about 120ppm of I recall.

What was your feeding at today?

Feeding was yesterday and 3(?) days ago. Both times it was 10ml/cc FFGB & epsom. PH 6.3. Both times to run off. It was not fed or watered today. Was just going to water tomorrow @ PH 6+ nothing else. Unless directed otherwise.

For fast results in the N department you can foliar with FF GB at 150 ppm over base. Whats your base PPM and PH and source

Okay...not having read about this let me see if I know off the top of my head.

Didn’t know I could use FFGB as foliar. No burn or only just before lights out? I’m doing 6/2x3 for light cycle.

So base would be my water source after sitting 24hr which is approximately 120ppm & PH 7.5. So I would then add FFGB until 270ppm? (No idea how much that would be at the moment.)

btw? I would start bumping up the GB by 50-75 ppm every second feeding until their color comes back and possibly even a tiny lil leaf tip burn.

Based on my above answer I’ll do so.
Here is a pic up close of the new leaves.

We seem to have arrested the yellowing on the new growth but still working on the dramatic clawing. Your light adjustments will help with the symptoms as well as slow down the plant til you get it figured.

At least slowed it way down. Can’t be 100% sure. To many yellow leaves to keep track. Cut a few more off tonight. Dozen every few days.

Clawing improved when I moved the fan up a bit and after her second feeding. Now it’s maybe droopy in areas.

Light was at 75% last 24hr and back to 50% tonight. Looking to see if yellow reoccurred. Don’t believe so but back to 50% to slow growth until fixed.

if runoff occurred at around 7L i would rock 5.5 or sixL to prevent runoff while definitely watering fully, the plant will better uptake it if you do two waterings instead of one but your ten min spacing should allow for plenty of time to absorb. Stop watering till run off.

Sounds good. Two waterings at approximately 3L each, 10 minutes between each litre. If runoff occurs I’ll note and adjust for nex time.

Am I doing feed, 2 days later water, 2 days later feed, etc.? PH 6.

Theres really no way you can transplant? Ballpark 50 bones could outfit you with a 25gal pot plus good ol mushroom compost, or even old dirt with manure or worm. To be honest with you i am concerned that if the problem of roots isn't directly delt with that you may be fighting a uphill battle this whole run. Possible? absolutely! Pain in the? Totally! Good learning experience either way!
Was the pic snapped after watering?

I hear you. The saucer is 20” & elevator is 18.5”. That’s 95L...

My soft pot is currently 16” diameter, not including bulge. So I can go a few inches larger. It looks like I have access to a 20G soft pot that’s 20” diameter for $15. Or 25G unknown diameter for $13 at different store.

Besides removing the scrog without damaging the plant I also have limited work space. A basement freezer is my usual table top. I wait until plants need water before transplanting so it’s easier and lighter.

Let me see what I’m able to do tomorrow.

If you need more/better answers let me know.

 

[fuzybuds]

PPM is new to me. Know what it is but not exactly why we use it. Tested my tap water and it’s about 120ppm of I recall.


Feeding was yesterday and 3(?) days ago. Both times it was 10ml/cc FFGB & epsom. PH 6.3. Both times to run off. It was not fed or watered today. Was just going to water tomorrow @ PH 6+ nothing else. Unless directed otherwise.


Okay...not having read about this let me see if I know off the top of my head.

Didn’t know I could use FFGB as foliar. No burn or only just before lights out? I’m doing 6/2x3 for light cycle.

So base would be my water source after sitting 24hr which is approximately 120ppm & PH 7.5. So I would then add FFGB until 270ppm? (No idea how much that would be at the moment.)


Based on my above answer I’ll do so.
Here is a pic up close of the new leaves.
View attachment 1319196


At least slowed it way down. Can’t be 100% sure. To many yellow leaves to keep track. Cut a few more off tonight. Dozen every few days.

Clawing improved when I moved the fan up a bit and after her second feeding. Now it’s maybe droopy in areas.

Light was at 75% last 24hr and back to 50% tonight. Looking to see if yellow reoccurred. Don’t believe so but back to 50% to slow growth until fixed.


Sounds good. Two waterings at approximately 3L each, 10 minutes between each litre. If runoff occurs I’ll note and adjust for nex time.

Am I doing feed, 2 days later water, 2 days later feed, etc.? PH 6.


I hear you. The saucer is 20” & elevator is 18.5”. That’s 95L...

My soft pot is currently 16” diameter, not including bulge. So I can go a few inches larger. It looks like I have access to a 20G soft pot that’s 20” diameter for $15. Or 25G unknown diameter for $13 at different store.

Besides removing the scrog without damaging the plant I also have limited work space. A basement freezer is my usual table top. I wait until plants need water before transplanting so it’s easier and lighter.

Let me see what I’m able to do tomorrow.

If you need more/better answers let me know.

Jesus ,that's one plant?
Makes mine look like miny mes.lol.
One day I'll have one like that