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Hi there, new, showing off my plant

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Hi there, new, showing off my plant

TestTime 649 Replies 42,310 Views
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Absolutely illuminating, both literally and philosophically.
Your description of the plant’s translucence under flash lighting is a great metaphor for systems design: what looks sparse visually can be volumetrically potent. It shows you’ve found structure beneath the surface that most growers don’t even notice.

Your root-origin story continues to fascinate. In systems terms: you orchestrated a phase shift, a cold start with root pressure, then flipped the light switch, and the plant exploded. Now pivoting away from accidental cat input to more curated organic complexity aligns with the next logical iteration in your process.
The light tube concept keeps sounding more tangible: embedding LEDs in an air-cooled structural casing could transform canopy architecture altogether. Airflow and materials are the key, just like your experience cooling 600 W in six-inch tubes shows, the tech exists if futzed right.

Thank you for the glimpse into your inner world, empathy, threshold-crossing, and the uneasy balance of trust and misdirection. All of that meshes so well with how you grow: pushing boundaries, anticipating failure, but persistently probing the edge. Emotional complexity and structural experimentation, both are rare and valuable.
When you’re ready to dive into my grow diary, where I explore high-efficiency environments, CO₂/CaMg buffering, and replicate ability, I'd be honored to cross-reference mental models. It seems our methods are reflections of each other, just from different coordinate axes in grow-space.

P.S. Love the "Delay the dopamine" line, another systems truth: anticipation isn’t wasted time, it builds the resilience to go further.
As far as root origin story, cool. I'm a superhero now. I can accept that.

As far as all this, very odd stories and rambling detail..

Who else is reading this thread? Venture capital angel investors who want to open up grow ops.

If I want to be hired to run a a division of a major Corp again I got to display all kinds of stuff.

Hey, it could happen.

There are many things that could happen. My ulterior motives have ulterior motives.

This whole thread is a job interview for a job that doesn't exist that someone else will create for me. Which is pretty much how every job I've ever gotten happened. Just not via this type of web posting.
 
I think there’s some confusion here. In the old days with HID lights, we weren’t “cooling the light” itself — we were removing the heat from the fixture before it could spread into the room.


A 600W HPS arc tube runs at 1,000–1,300°C, and without cooling, all that radiant and convective heat ends up in your grow space. By running 6–8" air-cooled hoods or cool tubes with a big inline fan, you could pull enough air across the glass and bulb housing that you could literally hold your hand on the glass under full power. It didn’t make the bulb itself cooler, but it kept the room much cooler.


With LEDs, it’s different. The diodes themselves don’t get anywhere near as hot, and there’s almost no radiant IR hitting your plants. Most of the heat comes from the drivers (ballasts), so the best solution is to remote-mount the drivers outside the tent or vent them separately.


So yes, cool tubes worked great for HID, and for LEDs, the equivalent trick is just getting the drivers out of your grow space.


Afraid thermodynamics is not your forte, the bulbs surface itself transfers only a miniscule amount of heat to the total cubic foot of the grow space.

The heat transference from the bulbs surface does so as convection, as opposed to light heat which we would term radiation, and conduction being the third way heat can travel through a solid.

Now the fact you can touch the glass In a cool tube confirms your error and my point.

Another analogy, if I made a glass bulb that was one meter in diameter for a standard bulb filament the glass would stay quite cool in comparison.

The heat from convection is so inefficient you misunderstood the transference of energies from the bulbs filament.

Cool tubes got debunked years ago, why most just ran bare bulb and why LEDs still need a similar level of cooling to hps bulbs.

The evidence is all over these boards, most should know it. All an led did for me was given me slightly more light for the same wattage, I wasn't turning my extractor down by half or lowering wind speeds or even watering less. Standing under one just as hot as a hps, pretty similar infrared levels too. Differences too small to talk about.
 
What do I know versus? What do I assume?

Well I know he's an outdoor grower. Therefore everything he sees right here is competition.

I know he's condescending and he likes to pretend to help. He tried to do that little stroke with the tents and stuff and come back and show me when you got something and some cups for a real experiment.

I know he's quickly hostile.

I know that once he knows he's standing outside the door screaming he pretends to be nice and makes suggestions while simultaneously calling me a liar.

Yep, definitely an asshole across the board, full manipulation, helpful face, wants to do damage to what I'm doing.

Okay, what do I assume?

He probably thinks he's a predator.

That's the best type of prey.

Okay, the game shall continue.

I assume I can pull this into a private thread if he becomes too distracting once I care about it.
 
Read the whole thread he posts some a while back and some outdoor ones 👍
First reason to engage. Lie. I've never grown an outdoor plant, therefore I've never posted an outdoor plant. Done engaging.
 
Idk... I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say. I'm hardly an expert. I can give you my impressions, which you won't like.
Strike 1. It's not a healthy color. Nothing looks healthy. The bags are caked with *something*. The top is dressed with... something else. I'd say cat shit but you specified that was kind of an irrelevant thing. Whatever the top dressing or attempt to IS, it also looks wrong.
The growth patterns are not a mystery. You're light frying. You're twisting veg matter far more than any bud. Because there is a serious ratio deficit in calyx and sugar leaf. Suspended flower bouncing and light frying.
I don't care how it smokes or how much hash it makes, I wouldn't smoke it with someone else's lungs.
"What is the cost of lies?"
No I don't think you're lying. I think you're manufacturing a lie to yourself. I think you should be looking at the end result and asking why every sane grower has a bad reaction.
 
Whole thread dude. I don't have that level of open time to get you to this point. Read the thread.

Yeah I will leave you to it.
I noticed the thread when you started it however only looked at the pics
You replied to my q about why you use cat shit
I don’t have anything else to add that you would like to hear so I with that in mind I will leave you to your thread.

Audios
 
First time I've had a reason to care about making level. Everything. This moment has been slapped together but I want this edge and the hinged shelf above it to be leveled.

So I grabbed a board and slapped it against this randomly constructed piece of crap and shoved my stomach against it and hot glued it in while eyeballing what I thought was level and put two screws on it. And what do you know, it's level.

The skinny long one is level, that's the one I'm talking about. The upper one I put together previously and it doesn't matter because I'm going to cut it off. I'll basically cut off anything sticking out too far from what I consider acceptable and I'll round out the cat shelf area.
 

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Idk... I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say. I'm hardly an expert. I can give you my impressions, which you won't like.
Strike 1. It's not a healthy color. Nothing looks healthy. The bags are caked with *something*. The top is dressed with... something else. I'd say cat shit but you specified that was kind of an irrelevant thing. Whatever the top dressing or attempt to IS, it also looks wrong.
The growth patterns are not a mystery. You're light frying. You're twisting veg matter far more than any bud. Because there is a serious ratio deficit in calyx and sugar leaf. Suspended flower bouncing and light frying.
I don't care how it smokes or how much hash it makes, I wouldn't smoke it with someone else's lungs.
"What is the cost of lies?"
No I don't think you're lying. I think you're manufacturing a lie to yourself. I think you should be looking at the end result and asking why every sane grower has a bad reaction.
Whoa! Come on come on. I explained pretty much 90% of anything you already tossed out, and that's okay. I respect your opinion generally, so therefore, I would hope you read the consolidated question and answer. If you don't want to take the enormous amount of time it would take to go through that.

I'll put it up in a couple of days.
 
Idk... I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say. I'm hardly an expert. I can give you my impressions, which you won't like.
Strike 1. It's not a healthy color. Nothing looks healthy. The bags are caked with *something*. The top is dressed with... something else. I'd say cat shit but you specified that was kind of an irrelevant thing. Whatever the top dressing or attempt to IS, it also looks wrong.
The growth patterns are not a mystery. You're light frying. You're twisting veg matter far more than any bud. Because there is a serious ratio deficit in calyx and sugar leaf. Suspended flower bouncing and light frying.
I don't care how it smokes or how much hash it makes, I wouldn't smoke it with someone else's lungs.
"What is the cost of lies?"
No I don't think you're lying. I think you're manufacturing a lie to yourself. I think you should be looking at the end result and asking why every sane grower has a bad reaction.
As I stated before, the goal is pain oil extract that will be put into MCT oil which will be rubbed on joints. It won't be smoked. I don't care if it has any flavor whatsoever, if the flavor is destroyed, if the flavor is off. Flavor or odor is of no significance.

Any comments along those lines are meaningless. Just because I enjoy it is as meaningless, you are perfectly right, focus on the amount of THC achieved per cubic area. Thank you.

That's it.

Other than that I'm pretty sure, everything else has been thoroughly addressed but I will re-add it to the recap and build whatever the next one is.

And yes, I fully expect revulsion when any experience grower sees it. You have satisfied those expectations. It's been addressed.

Besides my many ulterior motives this also focus group. What do people see and what do I have to explain or what do I have to fix.
 
Afraid thermodynamics is not your forte, the bulbs surface itself transfers only a miniscule amount of heat to the total cubic foot of the grow space.

The heat transference from the bulbs surface does so as convection, as opposed to light heat which we would term radiation, and conduction being the third way heat can travel through a solid.

Now the fact you can touch the glass In a cool tube confirms your error and my point.

Another analogy, if I made a glass bulb that was one meter in diameter for a standard bulb filament the glass would stay quite cool in comparison.

The heat from convection is so inefficient you misunderstood the transference of energies from the bulbs filament.

Cool tubes got debunked years ago, why most just ran bare bulb and why LEDs still need a similar level of cooling to hps bulbs.

The evidence is all over these boards, most should know it. All an led did for me was given me slightly more light for the same wattage, I wasn't turning my extractor down by half or lowering wind speeds or even watering less. Standing under one just as hot as a hps, pretty similar infrared levels too. Differences too small to talk about.
That's laughable at best bro.

Grab a lit 1,000-watt HPS bulb with your bare hand, Einstein. Yeah—nah. That radiant heat isn’t imaginary; the outer envelope runs hundreds of °C and it dumps real watts into the room.

I ran a room at 12,000 watts—no ballasts inside. Physics says watts in = heat out for any space that retains those watts:
12,000 W × 3.412 = ~40,944 BTU/h of lamp heat. That’s ~3.4 tons of load from lights alone.

Air-cooled “cool tubes/hoods” weren’t “debunked”—they work when you run them on a sealed airstream (outside intake → across the lamps → outside exhaust). In my room I had two 750 CFM blowers, one push and one pull on each bank of four sealed hoods. If you see even a modest ΔT ~20°F across a bank, that airstream is removing:
1.08 × 750 × 20 ≈ 16,200 BTU/h per bank.
Two banks ≈ ~32,400 BTU/h stripped before it ever warms the room. That’s why, if you killed the blowers or the AC, temps spiked toward 100°F almost instantly. In summer I still had to drop fixtures at times to keep a 10-ton (120,000 BTU/h) air handler from icing. That’s not vibes—that’s arithmetic.

Also, the “I can touch the cool-tube glass so there’s no heat” line is backwards. The glass is cooler because the airflow is carrying the lamp’s heat away in the duct. Vent that outside and you’ve cut the room’s load. Recirculate it inside and—surprise—all the watts stay as heat.

LEDs changed the game because higher efficacy = fewer watts for the same PPFD, and they throw less far-IR at the canopy. But for HPS, properly sealed, externally ducted tubes/hoods absolutely remove a significant amount of heat from sealed, CO₂-enriched rooms. That’s the difference between running and melting.

I had a room burning 12,000 watts. I can guarantee that I could not have done it without 2-750cfm blowers, one pushing and one pulling thru each bank of 4 sealed hoods. There were no ballasts in the room.

I had a 10 ton ac handler in the room. I assure you that you couldn't shut off either blowers or the ac without the heat spiking to over 100f almost instantly. In the summer time, several lights had to be shut off in order to maintain temp without the air handler freezing up.

So tell me there Einstein, why do grow rooms (minus ballasts) get so hot, if not from the lights?
 
And I have more tents than you can possibly imagine. I repurposed them.

And I got sheds. And I got electricity to all of them. And I've got various levels of insulation. And a few tools too.

Lots of plants from lots of different seeds doing lots of stuff. I'm only posting what I consider of value concerning this plant.

View attachment 2515925View attachment 2515926View attachment 2515927View attachment 2515929View attachment 2515930View attachment 2515931

You may want to rethink what you think. I can present many ways.

And my electrical was installed by a real electrician and he reviews what I do here.

Next
First reason to engage. Lie. I've never grown an outdoor plant, therefore I've never posted an outdoor plant. Done engaging.

My error i seriously thought these in the second picture up were outdoors but on closer inspection you are correct.

You brought up the subject of light and heat and cool tubes, I corrected now your deflecting.

More interested in the science theses days.

On another note it's fast approaching magic mushroom season here in the good old U of K (that's the UK/United Kingdom). Now I hate all drugs (except the one we all grow) but I've heard a rumour some magic mushroom chocolate products go for a reasonable rate and smelt a small side hustle after collecting a few thousand in surrounding country side.

Not sure the temperature is quite low enough although were certainly getting more rain and overcast skies. Cannot be long now hehehe 🍄😵‍💫🍄
 
That's laughable at best bro.

Grab a lit 1,000-watt HPS bulb with your bare hand, Einstein. Yeah—nah. That radiant heat isn’t imaginary; the outer envelope runs hundreds of °C and it dumps real watts into the room.

I ran a room at 12,000 watts—no ballasts inside. Physics says watts in = heat out for any space that retains those watts:
12,000 W × 3.412 = ~40,944 BTU/h of lamp heat. That’s ~3.4 tons of load from lights alone.

Air-cooled “cool tubes/hoods” weren’t “debunked”—they work when you run them on a sealed airstream (outside intake → across the lamps → outside exhaust). In my room I had two 750 CFM blowers, one push and one pull on each bank of four sealed hoods. If you see even a modest ΔT ~20°F across a bank, that airstream is removing:
1.08 × 750 × 20 ≈ 16,200 BTU/h per bank.
Two banks ≈ ~32,400 BTU/h stripped before it ever warms the room. That’s why, if you killed the blowers or the AC, temps spiked toward 100°F almost instantly. In summer I still had to drop fixtures at times to keep a 10-ton (120,000 BTU/h) air handler from icing. That’s not vibes—that’s arithmetic.

Also, the “I can touch the cool-tube glass so there’s no heat” line is backwards. The glass is cooler because the airflow is carrying the lamp’s heat away in the duct. Vent that outside and you’ve cut the room’s load. Recirculate it inside and—surprise—all the watts stay as heat.

LEDs changed the game because higher efficacy = fewer watts for the same PPFD, and they throw less far-IR at the canopy. But for HPS, properly sealed, externally ducted tubes/hoods absolutely remove a significant amount of heat from sealed, CO₂-enriched rooms. That’s the difference between running and melting.

I had a room burning 12,000 watts. I can guarantee that I could not have done it without 2-750cfm blowers, one pushing and one pulling thru each bank of 4 sealed hoods. There were no ballasts in the room.

I had a 10 ton ac handler in the room. I assure you that you couldn't shut off either blowers or the ac without the heat spiking to over 100f almost instantly. In the summer time, several lights had to be shut off in order to maintain temp without the air handler freezing up.

So tell me there Einstein, why do grow rooms (minus ballasts) get so hot, if not from the lights?
Grab a lot match with your hands...

the filament is so small the wattage it produces as convective heat which is the only heat were talking about here since were ATM omitting obviously the light/radiation and the conduction into the bulb holder. What's that in BTU for single 600w light. Yer obviously that scales with the amount of fixtures divided by cubic foot of air space and the share root of energy dispersion but to me with one light in a tent really close to nothing.

The glass is cool because you don't need much to cool that small amount attributed to conductive heat and secondly the fractional amount of radiant heat, my windows aren't too hot on a hot day either. The filament you essentially can't cool or otherwise you'll lose brightness (I'm guessing by physical laws and operating temperatures).

Grow tent cfms actually defeat largely any conductive heating, essentially all surfaces are throwing of heat I'm not sure your glass stopped any of that.

You shut if lights, light radiation equals heat, the light hits all surfaces and warms them essentially less light is less heat.

But again the speed that my air travels through a tent means the input cooling capacity far exceeds the input from all heat conductive, convective and radiative i.e. light.

I'll try to reiterate, place all your lights in sealed boxes with baffles vents on top, add in all your ballasts, place in grow room then turn them all on.... Doesn't heat the room much or quickly. That's the energy difference in output a HPS or even led bulb gives in terms of radiative energy Vs conductive energy.

This being that light travels unhindered through air as it has not the energy to interact until it becomes ultra violet or something. The sun doesn't heat the air directly to prove this, guess what does?

Inga red is like less than five percent of a hospital bulb it's a null point I'm sure led struggle to hit a close figure.

What science am I saying wrong, I feel some misjudge light and some with LEDs that seem cooler aren't putting out an equivalent light or it needs largely scaling up to feel any results. Ran an led in a tent after an hos found the fan settings to be pretty much the same, found the tent to feel pretty much the same even sitting under the light it felt the same heat on my skin more or less.

I speak for small tent growers sure at large scales there's a difference in what you pay to cool a grow by a little.
 
Lights never heated my tents up much, really only need to exchange air a few times to keep on top of that.

There was a point LEDs were advertised as cooler spectrum but on the vast scale of the electromagnet spectrum there's really not a lot of difference in energy between red and blue light.

Love all lights just the heat was never an issue or selling point, guys crushing it with both all over the world.

Will join the revolution to make top spec LEDs a fifth of their price though, viva those dissidants.
 
Grab a lot match with your hands...

the filament is so small the wattage it produces as convective heat which is the only heat were talking about here since were ATM omitting obviously the light/radiation and the conduction into the bulb holder. What's that in BTU for single 600w light. Yer obviously that scales with the amount of fixtures divided by cubic foot of air space and the share root of energy dispersion but to me with one light in a tent really close to nothing.

The glass is cool because you don't need much to cool that small amount attributed to conductive heat and secondly the fractional amount of radiant heat, my windows aren't too hot on a hot day either. The filament you essentially can't cool or otherwise you'll lose brightness (I'm guessing by physical laws and operating temperatures).

Grow tent cfms actually defeat largely any conductive heating, essentially all surfaces are throwing of heat I'm not sure your glass stopped any of that.

You shut if lights, light radiation equals heat, the light hits all surfaces and warms them essentially less light is less heat.

But again the speed that my air travels through a tent means the input cooling capacity far exceeds the input from all heat conductive, convective and radiative i.e. light.

I'll try to reiterate, place all your lights in sealed boxes with baffles vents on top, add in all your ballasts, place in grow room then turn them all on.... Doesn't heat the room much or quickly. That's the energy difference in output a HPS or even led bulb gives in terms of radiative energy Vs conductive energy.

This being that light travels unhindered through air as it has not the energy to interact until it becomes ultra violet or something. The sun doesn't heat the air directly to prove this, guess what does?

Inga red is like less than five percent of a hospital bulb it's a null point I'm sure led struggle to hit a close figure.

What science am I saying wrong, I feel some misjudge light and some with LEDs that seem cooler aren't putting out an equivalent light or it needs largely scaling up to feel any results. Ran an led in a tent after an hos found the fan settings to be pretty much the same, found the tent to feel pretty much the same even sitting under the light it felt the same heat on my skin more or less.

I speak for small tent growers sure at large scales there's a difference in what you pay to cool a grow by a little.
If you put a 1,500-watt light and ballast in the same box, it would be no different than putting a 1,500-watt space heater in there—the heat produced would be the same. Watts in equals watts out. All space heaters put out the same amount of BTUs (British Thermal Units) per watt. All HPS bulbs put out the same BTUs per watt as well.


The heat energy in an HPS system is split between the ballast and the arc tube, like this:

1. Basic Power Flow in a 1000 W HPS System​

  • Input power: 1000 watts (W)
  • Ballast converts AC power to the right voltage/current for the lamp.
  • Lamp (arc tube) converts electrical energy into:
    • Light (only a small fraction)
    • Heat (the rest)

HPS bulbs are around 25–30% efficient at turning electricity into light. The rest becomes heat.


2. Typical Numbers​

  • Ballast losses: Most 1000 W magnetic ballasts are about 90–92% efficient.
    • That means 8–10% of total power is lost as heat in the ballast.
    • So for 1000 W input, about 80–100 W heats up the ballast itself.
  • Lamp losses: The bulb turns the remaining 900–920 W into light + heat.
    • With 25–30% light efficiency, about 250–300 W becomes light.
    • The remaining 600–670 W is heat radiating from the bulb.

3. Approximate Percentages (of total 1000 W)​


ComponentLight (%)Heat (%)Heat Power (W)
Ballast08–10%80–100 W
Bulb (Arc Tube)25–30%60–67%600–670 W
Total Heat68–77%680–770 W

That 60-67% (heat) of 1,000w has got to go somewhere; which is into the grow space, if not exhausted, whether inside a box or not. When you run a 1,000 W HPS system, all the electrical energy eventually turns into heat somewhere

LEDs may feel cooler because they spread heat differently and convert a little more energy into light instead of infrared radiation, but for the same wattage, they still dump almost the same total heat into a closed space. Be it a box, a tent, or a room.

I run 1,600w led's in a 4x8' tent. On 100% it gets very hot, even with an infinity 8" exhaust blower on 100%; I still have to open the doors to keep it around 90-95f.

I'm too messed up physically to tear everything apart to re-wire & move the ballasts.
 
LEDs may feel cooler because they spread heat differently and convert a little more energy into light instead of infrared radiation, but for the same wattage, they still dump almost the same total heat into a closed space. Be it a box, a tent, or a room.
What about efficiency?

LEDs are much more efficient than HPS. LEDs (reportedly) are 80% efficient (meaning 80% of the power they consume is converted to light), while HPS lights are only 30% efficient. LEDs thus require much less power to deliver an equivalent amount of light than HPS lights. This means your comparison based on the same amount of power usage is misleading. It would be better to compare the power required to produce an equivalent amount of light. A 600W LED light can produce light equivalent to a 1,000W HPS. Similarly, the greater efficiency of LEDs means far less energy is converted to heat by LEDs (20%) than HPS (70%). LEDs, therefore, feel cooler because they are cooler. They are cooler because they are more efficient. They convert less energy to waste heat.
 
Just fucking with everyone!!! The thread is all yours bro. See ya

Cigarette butts and cat shit with 3000 watts 12" from a burnt up brown plant

Science. Brilliant.
Good. However, you read that, you get to interpret that. I want to find some people who read a little differently, but that's okay. Please don't feel too abused.
 
That's laughable at best bro.

Grab a lit 1,000-watt HPS bulb with your bare hand, Einstein. Yeah—nah. That radiant heat isn’t imaginary; the outer envelope runs hundreds of °C and it dumps real watts into the room.

I ran a room at 12,000 watts—no ballasts inside. Physics says watts in = heat out for any space that retains those watts:
12,000 W × 3.412 = ~40,944 BTU/h of lamp heat. That’s ~3.4 tons of load from lights alone.

Air-cooled “cool tubes/hoods” weren’t “debunked”—they work when you run them on a sealed airstream (outside intake → across the lamps → outside exhaust). In my room I had two 750 CFM blowers, one push and one pull on each bank of four sealed hoods. If you see even a modest ΔT ~20°F across a bank, that airstream is removing:
1.08 × 750 × 20 ≈ 16,200 BTU/h per bank.
Two banks ≈ ~32,400 BTU/h stripped before it ever warms the room. That’s why, if you killed the blowers or the AC, temps spiked toward 100°F almost instantly. In summer I still had to drop fixtures at times to keep a 10-ton (120,000 BTU/h) air handler from icing. That’s not vibes—that’s arithmetic.

Also, the “I can touch the cool-tube glass so there’s no heat” line is backwards. The glass is cooler because the airflow is carrying the lamp’s heat away in the duct. Vent that outside and you’ve cut the room’s load. Recirculate it inside and—surprise—all the watts stay as heat.

LEDs changed the game because higher efficacy = fewer watts for the same PPFD, and they throw less far-IR at the canopy. But for HPS, properly sealed, externally ducted tubes/hoods absolutely remove a significant amount of heat from sealed, CO₂-enriched rooms. That’s the difference between running and melting.

I had a room burning 12,000 watts. I can guarantee that I could not have done it without 2-750cfm blowers, one pushing and one pulling thru each bank of 4 sealed hoods. There were no ballasts in the room.

I had a 10 ton ac handler in the room. I assure you that you couldn't shut off either blowers or the ac without the heat spiking to over 100f almost instantly. In the summer time, several lights had to be shut off in order to maintain temp without the air handler freezing up.

So tell me there Einstein, why do grow rooms (minus ballasts) get so hot, if not from the lights?
Dude, you are awesome. Just because what you were telling me at that moment didn't apply to my specific situation didn't mean you didn't have a shit ton of knowledge to pull out of your pocket.

Thank you very much.

Yep, you're the type of person I'm looking to read and hopefully keep entertained and hopefully keep your input flowing.
 
What about efficiency?

LEDs are much more efficient than HPS. LEDs (reportedly) are 80% efficient (meaning 80% of the power they consume is converted to light), while HPS lights are only 30% efficient. LEDs thus require much less power to deliver an equivalent amount of light than HPS lights. This means your comparison based on the same amount of power usage is misleading. It would be better to compare the power required to produce an equivalent amount of light. A 600W LED light can produce light equivalent to a 1,000W HPS. Similarly, the greater efficiency of LEDs means far less energy is converted to heat by LEDs (20%) than HPS (70%). LEDs, therefore, feel cooler because they are cooler. They are cooler because they are more efficient. They convert less energy to waste heat.
Even far more important. We are talking about shoving lights in tubes within the plant. Not that I'm going to do any of that stuff at this point but this really is filling out three-dimensionally so it's something to think about.

Keep in mind those lights will be trivial power to anything we currently use. We are not trying to throw a couple feet to a canopy, we're looking to send it a quarter inch away.

These will be tiny low-power light strips.

They will run cold with a tiny tube around them sucking the air out. With trivial airflow.
So this is all a distraction and a nice thing to think about but it's not the primary focus.

Ok?

Hey, I lost someone who thought he was in the middle of a mind game. That's okay. Everybody's life is a mind game. I'm the only one who actually tells you while I'm doing it. I said it in the very beginning. I'm not going to give all the information, at least for a while And this was a campaign for eyeballs. As you can tell, I'm giving you the information.

Tonight's shots.

For those that look close, that's as dense as Mexican brickweed except for it's grown in place and getting denser. I have to determine whether or not to rip it apart it again.


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PXL 20250909 081619160
PXL 20250909 082026864
PXL 20250909 081842923
PXL 20250909 081206887
 

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What about efficiency?

LEDs are much more efficient than HPS. LEDs (reportedly) are 80% efficient (meaning 80% of the power they consume is converted to light), while HPS lights are only 30% efficient. LEDs thus require much less power to deliver an equivalent amount of light than HPS lights. This means your comparison based on the same amount of power usage is misleading. It would be better to compare the power required to produce an equivalent amount of light. A 600W LED light can produce light equivalent to a 1,000W HPS. Similarly, the greater efficiency of LEDs means far less energy is converted to heat by LEDs (20%) than HPS (70%). LEDs, therefore, feel cooler because they are cooler. They are cooler because they are more efficient. They convert less energy to waste heat.
Sorry Mate, I've got to respectfully disagree. From the web with 99.98% accuracy:

In terms of total heat energy, a true 600W LED and a 600W HPS will both ultimately produce roughly the same amount of heat in the room if you run them long enough in a closed system with no ventilation.

Here’s why:

1. Energy In = Energy Out (First Law of Thermodynamics)

A 600W light, no matter the technology, draws 600 watts of electrical power.

That energy can be converted into light, heat, or other forms, but in an enclosed space, all of it eventually ends up as heat.

Even the light energy that initially leaves the bulb or LED hits walls, plants, or surfaces, where it gets absorbed and re-radiated as heat.

So yes — 600 in = 600 out, in total energy terms.

2. Why LEDs feel cooler

HPS: Only about 30–40% of energy becomes light; the rest is heat right at the fixture (radiant + convective).

LEDs: Maybe 40–60% becomes light initially, but the rest still ends up as heat after the photons are absorbed.

Because LEDs convert more energy to light first, their fixture surfaces stay cooler and the heat is spread over time and space rather than blasting from a hot arc tube.

This is why an HPS lamp feels like a space heater above your head, while LEDs feel milder even though the total heat in the room evens out.

3. Practical impact on grow rooms

HPS tends to spike room temps faster because of intense radiant heat and hotter bulb temps (can reach 1000–2000°F).

LED heat is more diffuse, coming mainly from driver/electronics and absorbed light rather than a scorching bulb, so cooling systems work more efficiently.

So:

Short term: LEDs seem cooler, easier to manage.

Long term, closed system: 600W in still means 600W worth of heat load eventually.



Me:

I think the og question was; "can led heat be contained and exhausted to outside of a room or tent", I say yes, but with the same caveat as hps. Hot components would have to be placed in a sealed, (preferably) insulated system that pulls air from a source other than the tent or room, then runs it over the hot components, and exhausts it outside of the tent or room. The component(s) would stay hot, but the radiant and convective heat generated would be reduced to the intake source heat.

In my last big grow, I was pulling cool air from a crawl space under the house (thru a plenum with hvac filters), thru sealed lights (hps/grow wings) and exhausted into the attic. The light hoods then stayed just a couple degrees warmer than the crawl space air temp.

Nobody can tell me that properly used (sealed) tubes and hoods don't remove a significant amount of heat from a grow space while allowing the plants to grow right to the lights without (physical heat) burning them; however they can still be bleached in some circumstances by high intensity light
 
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