Question about veganics

[altitudefarmer]

I've never understood the purpose of veganics. In nature, animals are constantly dying and shitting everywhere. What's the point of eliminating these perfectly acceptable sources of nutrients?

I concur, my friend.

Can anyone give me an example of an animal disease that:
a. is transferred from animal matter to plant fruit through a living plant
b. is communicable to humans in this method
c. is not eradicated by proper composting

Not being argumentative; I'd just like to know why I should switch. Thanks for the info. Peace

 

[vancerz]

"Grown using vegan organic methods by Matt Rize.
Blackberry Kush has never tested over 16% at this lab. Just to set the scene.
blackberry kush flower %15.44 THC %0.23CBD %0.05CBN
blackberry kush full melt%52.64THC %01.27CBD %0.33CBN"

Dude no offense all you grow is blackberry kush you better have the bitch dialed in by now. not only that your blackberry still was no more potent then other samples people have brought in, so I don't really see the "benefit" of your mostly "veganic growing" over traditional organic growing.

I dont even consider your method the be purely veganic anyways your still dumping worm shit all over your ladies... even if they have a veganic diet its still shit.and using supposed "veganic" bottled ferts is lame and expensive.

 

[Udyana Peace]

well, why not go ask our good friend jaykush?

Yes - he does only use plant material to feed his plants which he harvests both from natural sources (nettle, poison oak, etc.) and also grows out a massive amount of plant material (comfrey, yarrow, valerian, etc.) to compost, feed his worms and to make fermented teas.

That's quite a bit different than buying a bottle of 'vegan nutes' produced in China.

Keep swingin' Cupcake!!!

UP

 

[Seamaiden]

I've never understood the purpose of veganics. In nature, animals are constantly dying and shitting everywhere. What's the point of eliminating these perfectly acceptable sources of nutrients?

A fundamental misunderstanding of Jainist principles, is my guess.

Interesting, this is making me think of what went through my head as I watched the towers go down. Blood and guts and bone and teeth and hair and shit, all mixed together in a giant, sick Bass-o-matic.

I concur, my friend.

Can anyone give me an example of an animal disease that:
a. is transferred from animal matter to plant fruit through a living plant
b. is communicable to humans in this method
c. is not eradicated by proper composting

Not being argumentative; I'd just like to know why I should switch. Thanks for the info. Peace

Eee... well, actually there can be many examples brought up. E. coli is but one, there are parasites whose life cycles require plant and animal time, but I don't know enough about food safety to answer with anything more than that.

I didn't realize that jay was focused on veganic organics, I've read a lot of what he does but I don't recall ever actually noticing that being specifically his focus. I've always interpreted him to be a "use what you can find in nature" kind of guy, which could include deer poo, I mean if it works, yeah?

Would your own urine qualify as veganic organics?

A huge part of the problem with this whole "discussion" (aside from the dick-swinging. Really, do we need more of that?) is that the term "organic" is not well-defined from the outset. And then the confusion ensuing from "veganic" regarding things like the poop of worms or the vomit of bees, and the greensand and DE that come from fossilized organisms and then if you mix in the idea that people don't even define a "theory" in the same way (scientific vs layperson) then you've got yourself a whole lotta mess.

I'm happy to use bone and blood meals, poops of worms and other animals, my own urine (but not my poo), and wrapping my head around mined products, i.e. greensand, soft rock phosphate, our favorite dolomitic lime, etcetera, etcetera. I don't know what else to think except that it's an interesting fad.

What about egg shells? Oyster shell flour? Ruh roh!

 

[Shredder]

Good post guys/gals. I think in a crowded market you may have to drum up business by standing apart from the mainstream somehow. And that, is veganics today, next month it most likely will be some more PT Barnum style miracle based product. It's like drug companies inventing diseases, so they can make money on a cure.....shredder

 

[Bubblemang]

"Grown using vegan organic methods by Matt Rize.
Blackberry Kush has never tested over 16% at this lab. Just to set the scene.
blackberry kush flower %15.44 THC %0.23CBD %0.05CBN
blackberry kush full melt%52.64THC %01.27CBD %0.33CBN"

Dude no offense all you grow is blackberry kush .

ACTUALLY: I grew that variety once, and those where my numbers. Right now I'm finishing some cush aka green crack.

Steep Hill Lab is doing FREE TESTING of buds and hash this week for anyone. If any of you haters wants to step up, please contact them and get some data. You will be crushed matt rize's blackberry kush ;)

or, if you can't compete with real data... you can stfu :)

 

[CT Guy]

well, why not go ask our good friend jaykush? or one of the many others having great results using vegan organics? I'll tell you again, if you actually want to hear.

My results from Steep Hill Lab seem to indicate that vegan organic (veganic) horticulture has put me on top of the sample group. If cannabinoid levels matter to you... ;) Some people would rather believe than know. You sir, do not seem like one of them.

I'm not saying my results cannot be obtained with traditional organics, hell or even chems, BUT being in the top 5 samples shows that you do not need poop or synthetics to grow the best herb.

Were there any controls in place for this experiment? For example, was the same strain/clone used for all testing?

I agree with you that you don't need poop or synthetics to grow healthy plants, however, I don't think we need a new word or label to describe it, or new products.

Most grains and vegetables that are grown organically are grown using animal products (manures, etc...). Personally, I don't see a problem with this. I don't see how growing without them is somehow better is all.

Now if you want to have a discussion about using local ingredients or sustainable ingredients, I think that would be more relevant promoting environmentally sound practices.

As for JayKush from IC, well I know he uses manures and other animal products to improve his soil, as well as fermented plant extracts. He's just very self-sustainable, knowledgeable, and CHEAP! He doesn't believe that you need to buy anything to grow plants, but can source everything from your property and local area.

 

[Bubblemang]

Keep swingin' Cupcake!!!

Awww, we're calling names now? Really? How mature, it sure is easy to talk shit anonymously...

 

[Bubblemang]

I didn't realize that jay was focused on veganic organics...

He is very much so, just ask him. He is a great guy. He drinks less haterade than most of these guys...

Would your own urine qualify as veganic organics?

lol, not im my world. Call it what you want or we'll end up waxing semantics for 20 pages. The hundreds of thousands of vegetarians and vegans out there do not all follow the exact same restrictions.

A huge part of the problem with this whole "discussion" (aside from the dick-swinging. Really, do we need more of that?) is that the term "organic" is not well-defined from the outset. And then the confusion ensuing from "veganic" regarding things like the poop of worms or the vomit of bees, and the greensand and DE that come from fossilized organisms and then if you mix in the idea that people don't even define a "theory" in the same way (scientific vs layperson) then you've got yourself a whole lotta mess.

And here we are to wade through that mess. :)

I'm happy to use bone and blood meals, poops of worms and other animals, my own urine (but not my poo), and wrapping my head around mined products, i.e. greensand, soft rock phosphate, our favorite dolomitic lime, etcetera, etcetera. I don't know what else to think except that it's an interesting fad.

Fad, or growing trend...?
http://www.veganorganic.net/
http://vegan-organic.gather.com/

What about egg shells? Oyster shell flour? Ruh roh!

Like I said, if you don't want to hear it from me, ask ol Jay Kush, he is a mod over at Ic (the most repressive site of all!). You ask him why he chooses to not use animal inputs. "veganic" is a term kk uses to describe how he grows. Vegan organic is a concept, google it, I didn't create the idea.

 

[Bubblemang]

Were there any controls in place for this experiment? For example, was the same strain/clone used for all testing?

LOL CT :) Yes, my blackberry kush was compared to other blackberry kush... #winning. This was not an experiment, but a simple comparison of numbers. Don't be mad I come up on top, especially my hash (45 to 160 microns). It's what I do mayn! The cream always rizes to the top.

I agree with you that you don't need poop or synthetics to grow healthy plants, however, I don't think we need a new word or label to describe it, or new products.

Seems to me you are taking business personally... please don't confuse the two CT, I know you know better. Or is this about your business? If so, then that makes sense. There are no new products I'm pushing, not sure what that comment was about. No worries, I am not getting into the tea business.

Veganic and vegan organic are words to represent ideas, they existed before matt rize and they will exist after matt rize. The fact that I've played a large role in introducing this idea, and term, to the cannabis growing lexicon is a good thing, although I get hated on for it... (clears throat).

Most grains and vegetables that are grown organically are grown using animal products (manures, etc...). Personally, I don't see a problem with this. I don't see how growing without them is somehow better is all.

Most grains and veggies aren't smoked 20x per day... there is a difference. I can't (won't try to) convince an omnivore to go vegetarian, nor do I expect to you to value vegan organic horticulture, an ancient form of traditional organic horticulture.

Now if you want to have a discussion about using local ingredients or sustainable ingredients, I think that would be more relevant promoting environmentally sound practices.

As for JayKush from IC, well I know he uses manures and other animal products to improve his soil, as well as fermented plant extracts. He's just very self-sustainable, knowledgeable, and CHEAP! He doesn't believe that you need to buy anything to grow plants, but can source everything from your property and local area.

I have heard Jay claim on many occasions that he is technically vegan organic. I did not investigate the situation because I ran out of haterade... can a brutha borrow a gallon? seems there is plenty to go around here. :)

 

[Bubblemang]

Steep Hill Lab is doing FREE TESTING of buds and hash this week for anyone. If any of you haters wants to step up, please contact them and get some data. You will be crushed matt rize's blackberry kush

or, if you can't compete with real data... you can stfu ;)

 

[Bubblemang]

And in case anyone missed it. I have cut all ties to KK. On top of that, Discovery Channel got me telling him off on camera, about an hour of me yelling at dude. And they are planning on using that footage for the show they are putting together. The world will not only gets to meet Matt Rize, and come to my house, and watch me smoke copious amounts of hash, they get to see me GOING OFF!

Rize UP THCfarmers. Never let the haters get you down. If there is one thing I learned from IC... haters gotta hate (little guy dancing video)

 

[Bubblemang]

That sucks about your dog.
Why not try vegan organic with just seed meals, kelp meal,ewc, etc incorporated into your soil instead of all the grow store b.s.
Isn't that what organic growing is all about?
Letting the soil provide the nutrients for the plant.
Just a thought.

Hey thanks man. If not for her gruesome death I would never have joined these boards. We (my board buddies and I) have been working on a "just add water" vegan organic soil recipe, still dialing that in. That is the long term goal. For now I am enjoying the success I am having with my current soilless organic system.

And don't let these guys fool you. They call themselves "organic soil" gardeners, but they use Pro-Tekt and other stuff from bottles (ie ful-power). Then they call it naturally derived, and move on to bashing the bottled nutes that they don't use.

CTguy specifically is in the compost tea business and most likely has financial interests of his own to protect here. While OP is just a hilarious shit talker who has all the answers, and if it's who I think it is, a generally nice guy, for a coot ;)

 

[Cannanugget]

Veganics is fucking joke. I've smoked KK's nuggs before. They're no doubt dank as fuckkk, but honestly it's no better than any other GOOD grower's shit and it seems like it would cost a good bit more to grow using all the bio-canna and other things he uses in the Veganics. Bomb bud, but not worth the extra $$ imho. These days no one wants to pay what it is truly worth.

 

[Bubblemang]

Veganics is fucking joke. I've smoked KK's nuggs before. They're no doubt dank as fuckkk, but honestly it's no better than any other GOOD grower's shit and it seems like it would cost a good bit more to grow using all the bio-canna and other things he uses in the Veganics. Bomb bud, but not worth the extra $$ imho. These days no one wants to pay what it is truly worth.

well I can totally respect that opinion. I'll also say that KK, and everyone else that has sampled, says that my herb smokes much better than his. I feed way less, he grows for yield. We grow very differently, the only similarity is biocanna.

 

[Udyana Peace]

And don't let these guys fool you. They call themselves "organic soil" gardeners, but they use Pro-Tekt and other stuff from bottles (ie ful-power). Then they call it naturally derived, and move on to bashing the bottled nutes that they don't use.

Potassium Silicate was approved for organic crop production in 2003 under USDA NOP Final Rule, Subpart G, The National List of Allowed and Prohibited Substances. [cite]

What's clear is that you have absolutely no understanding or knowledge on what is or is not approved for organic food production. Or who even passes on these issues - you hug OMRI pretty tightly I'm betting.

Biocanna? Laughable. A company located on Wilshire Boulevard along LA's 'Miracle Mile District' (big $$$) importing barrels of the next big deal at one's local grow store.

Cute.

UP

 

[Bubblemang]

Potassium Silicate was approved for organic crop production in 2003 under USDA NOP Final Rule, Subpart G, The National List of Allowed and Prohibited Substances. [cite]

What's clear is that you have absolutely no understanding or knowledge on what is or is not approved for organic food production. Or who even passes on these issues - you hug OMRI pretty tightly I'm betting.

Biocanna? Laughable. A company located on Wilshire Boulevard along LA's 'Miracle Mile District' (big $$$) importing barrels of the next big deal at one's local grow store.

lol UP, I hug OMRI... what is that about? awww. did I hit a vein? or maybe a just a vain? ;) either way, I don't see why you make this so personal.

KK uses the silica too, and calls it veganic. So I guess it's all good, heh :rolleyes:
I picked up a bottle of that recently as well.

hey, isn't Bioag mostly OMRI listed? heh. ;) What about CA's new organic law, AB 856, that I pm'ed you? Do you think that will have an affect on what is and what is not approved for organic food production?

And back to what I learned on icshwag. HATERS GOTTA HATE (little guy dancing). No matter how much y'all hate, I won't grow exactly like you. To each his own Clack. By the way... can we see some pics of your herb?

 

[CT Guy]

LOL CT :) Yes, my blackberry kush was compared to other blackberry kush... #winning. This was not an experiment, but a simple comparison of numbers. Don't be mad I come up on top, especially my hash (45 to 160 microns). It's what I do mayn! The cream always rizes to the top.


Seems to me you are taking business personally... please don't confuse the two CT, I know you know better. Or is this about your business? If so, then that makes sense. There are no new products I'm pushing, not sure what that comment was about. No worries, I am not getting into the tea business.

Veganic and vegan organic are words to represent ideas, they existed before matt rize and they will exist after matt rize. The fact that I've played a large role in introducing this idea, and term, to the cannabis growing lexicon is a good thing, although I get hated on for it... (clears throat).


Most grains and veggies aren't smoked 20x per day... there is a difference. I can't (won't try to) convince an omnivore to go vegetarian, nor do I expect to you to value vegan organic horticulture, an ancient form of traditional organic horticulture.



I have heard Jay claim on many occasions that he is technically vegan organic. I did not investigate the situation because I ran out of haterade... can a brutha borrow a gallon? seems there is plenty to go around here. :)

Hey I'm not sure when you got the idea that my posts were antagonistic. I never accused you of anything or made this personal.

The term Vegan I've always associated people who choose not to eat meats or dairy. That doesn't mean that the vegetables they're consuming weren't once grown using manures and other animal products. If you choose to go that route, it's fine by me. I'm just not seeing how it's better for the plant or the planet. Recycling of manures and waste created by animals seems like a natural process, and one that Mother Nature has incorporated into the Nitrogen Cycle for millions of years. How is cutting it out an advantage?

I wasn't taking any of this personally, simply asking questions. How can I know that your plants are so much better than someone else's if I have no basis for comparison? That means I have to know that you grew the same strain from the same mother plant, and what the environmental conditions changed. I could get excellent or poor results from the same plant, just by adjusting my watering patterns or lighting conditions. I want to know HOW the "veganics" were effectively determined to be the variable most influential on plant growth and THC content.

I'm not convinced of your argument that smoking veganic herb vs organic herb makes a difference. What animal components are existing in the final product? Are you really smoking 20X a day?!?

As for Jay, I know he mentioned the other day in our private forum that he got yards of horse manure for free from a local farmer. I'm not claiming he uses it for his bud, but I was just stating that I think the bigger issue (as I mentioned before) is sourcing local ingredients, which is a more sustainable practice, rather than whether or not they contain animal ingredients.

If you want to make this personal, we can. However, I've done nothing more than ask you questions about "Veganics," and I think your last post was rude and totally uncalled for, based on what I've written in this thread.

 

[CT Guy]

l

And back to what I learned on icshwag. HATERS GOTTA HATE (little guy dancing). No matter how much y'all hate, I won't grow exactly like you. To each his own Clack. By the way... can we see some pics of your herb?

The reason people got pissed off on IC Mag was because you joined and with your very first posts, you started a thread called "Veganics with Prof. Matt Rize" or something along those lines, and then proceeded to lecture on how to grow and why your way was the best.

You also posted it in a couple of different forums on the site.

It's the same as walking into a room of growers, many of whom have been growing for over 30-40 years, and then telling them that they're doing it wrong and you're way is right.

Oh, and the self-proclaimed "Professor" title, without having an actual doctorate....

Hey, don't take this as an attack, and I'm not "hating." I have no personal beef with you. I'm just sharing why people got upset on IC Mag.

I think with a slightly different approach, you could have gotten along just fine with many of the members on that site as well.

 

[vancerz]

sorry bubblemang that blackberry is the only example i EVER see you post up guess you haven't grown anything that tested good since then, and FYI i think your full of shit on everything you said your a used car sells man and a certifiable sociopath

"or, if you can't compete with real data... you can stfu "

this tested who gives a fuck at the lab.