Question about veganics

[Bubblemang]

Hey I'm not sure when you got the idea that my posts were antagonistic. I never accused you of anything or made this personal.

Hey, then let me apologize. I am confusing your respectful tone and questions with the disrespect and sarcasm from others.

How is cutting it out an advantage?

Ahh, a wise man knows that traditional organic gardening can be done to perfection. But generally the bottled "organic" nutes aren't from the best sources. I am suggesting vegan organic bottled over organic bottled. And chems... not in the equation.

I wasn't taking any of this personally, simply asking questions. How can I know that your plants are so much better than someone else's if I have no basis for comparison? That means I have to know that you grew the same strain from the same mother plant, and what the environmental conditions changed. I could get excellent or poor results from the same plant, just by adjusting my watering patterns or lighting conditions. I want to know HOW the "veganics" were effectively determined to be the variable most influential on plant growth and THC content.

Obviously this isn't a study on "veganics", just a simple comparison within Steep Hill Lab. Blackberry Kush is clone only, although I have no evidence there are not multiple varieties of that name. Blackberry Kush is one of the top 10 tested varieties at this lab, so the sample size is large. My data came up on top. Draw what conclusions you will. I'll tell you first hand that my dog was killed two weeks into flower of this round. I almost killed the whole garden by not watering for 5 days. The entire room was wilted. I nursed them back with tears in my ears and MINIMAL energy or efforts. They were yellow from two weeks into flower and barely greened back up by the end.

I'm not convinced of your argument that smoking veganic herb vs organic herb makes a difference. What animal components are existing in the final product? Are you really smoking 20X a day?!?

I posted some third party reviews that say just this. I would love for you to sample my herb. :) That's about all I can say. Who feels it knows it. 20x day, lol... yeah, hash and flowers all day and night. I may be going crazy.

As for Jay, I know he mentioned the other day in our private forum that he got yards of horse manure for free from a local farmer. I'm not claiming he uses it for his bud, but I was just stating that I think the bigger issue (as I mentioned before) is sourcing local ingredients, which is a more sustainable practice, rather than whether or not they contain animal ingredients.

Yeah man, I love that. You guys have truly inspired me to seek out local sources for things I've been buying, specifically my teas. I mean hell, I host a CSA, and bring all of my hashed trim to a farm for composting. I'm already going to the farm weekly. Why not bring home some fresh compost ey?

If you want to make this personal, we can. However, I've done nothing more than ask you questions about "Veganics," and I think your last post was rude and totally uncalled for, based on what I've written in this thread.

Fair enough, and I apologize. You must understand that it's hard to pick out the serious posts with all the haters, ol coot knows just how to mess with me too. Have a good one.

 

[mrbong73]

You do know that the bio terra soil has bone meal and bat guano, right?

 

[sevon7]

on a lighter note

I have made my soil with my own look at veganics(since their seems to be such a wide interpretation of it) and I have planted 2 GDP clones in two different mixes of my soil and I'm hoping for a good turn out!

I am only using inredients that are organic and veganic in my terms.
I choose to use worm castings from worms only fed green materials because it would occur naturally with worms living in the ground.

 

[CT Guy]

BubbleMang,

Thanks for responding. I appreciate you sharing your information and I'm glad to hear that your plants are healthy and test well. Sorry to hear about your dog.

We don't have to agree on whether "Veganics" is better than "Organic." I think we all agree that anything organic is better than chems, and sourcing locally and avoiding bottled nutrients is the best of all...

Cheers,
CT

 

[Bubblemang]

You do know that the bio terra soil has bone meal and bat guano, right?

Yes of course, and I am very open about that. I am currently working on getting this fact into print. I make sure to point that out on my threads. how much? very little. does that make it technically not vegan? sure, I don't really care about 100% this or that, I'm not a vegetarian. It's about results for my indoor. If you think my outdoor is grown using bottled nutes, I have a magic bean to sell you. Is there any nutrition, provided by the miniscule amount of bone/guano, left by 12/12? Not a real chance. What about the synthetic micronutes in biocanna? Yup, that too, also in the tm-7 from bioag. What else can I disclose... sulfur vapes in the winter. Epsom salt sometimes too.

Oh yeah, sometimes I use pH adjusters, the up and down from GH, and pH down from earth juice. My reservoir and pots are made of plastic not glass ;) (reference to my binned thread from icshwag)

 

[Bubblemang]

BubbleMang,

Thanks for responding. I appreciate you sharing your information and I'm glad to hear that your plants are healthy and test well. Sorry to hear about your dog.

We don't have to agree on whether "Veganics" is better than "Organic." I think we all agree that anything organic is better than chems, and sourcing locally and avoiding bottled nutrients is the best of all...

Cheers,
CT

Thank you for always leading the way. I had forgotten until now that I had the same knee jerk (double meaning intended) response to your post on my infamous locked thread. Well, they got rize, and vwalaa, and don habanero, ... i'll drop you a pm over there under my new name, although I generally just hide out and talk politics and quietly export the good posts to elsewhere.

That site would be another garbage seed sales site without you, mm, cc, spur. Frankly, I'm glad to see you elsewhere. Karmagirl is a fat beeyatch. ha!

Clack on the other hand, likes messing with me. It's all good, I owe him that, at least, for all his help along the way.

Rize UP THCfarmers. Don't ever let them get you down. Remember, society laughed at and threatened the people who originally suggest the world is not flat. In a few years, vegan organic hort will be old news, and society will be hating on something else that is actually a beneficial part of the future.

 

[Bubblemang]

sorry bubblemang that blackberry is the only example i EVER see you post up guess you haven't grown anything that tested good since then... "or, if you can't compete with real data... you can stfu "
this tested who gives a fuck at the lab.

well, the personal attacks seem a little over the top. But I know how easy it is for stoners to hate from behind a screen. Much like punkass kids throwing stuff on the freeway from an overpass.

As I said, lab tests are free this week, even if you don't appreciate data. If calling me names makes you feel better, go ahead. That is the only blackberry I post because I only grew it once. I haven't had anything tested since. That was only a couple rounds ago. I'm growing out seeds now, and that is taking a little longer. Vortex, Chernobyl, Plushberry, and Qleaner.

If I had something to sell you, I'd take the charge. But since I don't.... you just look like a hater. sall good mayn. HATERS GOTTA HATE!

ps that was funny about the lab test... but still missing the point. It's time to move beyond talk and theory to actual data from our work. That is why I work with the lab.

ps. I was surprised to find out my hash tested so high. And that my bud was in the top ten. But I'm not going to pretend the facts are not true, the lab has no reason to lie to me.

 

[vancerz]

how about not telling people to STFU in you want to keep shit civil, and dude ill hate on you to your face if you want im in sac lets meet and talk about punk ass kids all you want.

Im hating because your grow is NOT veganic its "organic" at best, how much meat can i put in a burrito before its no longer vegetarian?

Your method is expensive and wasteful then you admit a "a wise man knows that traditional organic gardening can be done to perfection." sooooo once agin wtf is the point of pure veganics if it offers NOTHING over organic, if I can do it just as good at a fraction of the cost with even less effort with local ingredients? this is why you run in to so much shit you make no sense.

And sorry for calling you a sociopath even if im thinking it I shouldn't have said it.

Oh yeah PS with all your lab shit I dont doubt your grow, a heavy veg organic(what you call veganic) pumps out quality thats what I grown in as a supersoil I just add water and tea once a month(very easy and cheap considering i recycle soil) and as you can see my buds are right good to. Ill have more buds to show you in 2 weeks different strain just as good.

And I got plushberrys to, very interested to see how they come out im only maybe 2 weeks in with them.

 

[Udyana Peace]

You do know that the bio terra soil has bone meal and bat guano, right?

Perhaps the bat guano is sourced from special fruit-eating bats that adhere to the tenets of the Rastafarian fruitarian diet 'Ital' having nothing to do with iPhones, iPads, iMovie, iPads, et al.

Open source bat guano as it were.

Hard to comment much on the bone meal but IF it's in a liquid form like this one:

Or perhaps even this one?

Tsk-tsk-tsk..............

UP

 

[Bubblemang]

Perhaps the bat guano is sourced from special fruit-eating bats that adhere to the tenets of the Rastafarian fruitarian diet 'Ital' having nothing to do with iPhones, iPads, iMovie, iPads, et al.

Open source bat guano as it were.

Hard to comment much on the bone meal but IF it's in a liquid form like this one:

Tsk-tsk-tsk..............

UP

lol, You always know how to make me smile. :)
Why would a potting mix have liquid bone meal? Oh, did I just ruin the joke. Plus we all know you love some packaged nutes/supplements and abhor the rest. Seems like we're singing the same song, just to a different tune.

I just sent some Blackberry Kush hash (outdoor organic), that I made, to the lab. Separated, dried, and cured using the same techniques and microns as my indoor "heavy veg organic". Grown in true soil, in the ground, with teas and water. Indoor heavy veg organic versus outdoor organic. aka New School versus Old School. ;) Results tba.

 

[Bubblemang]

And don't forget how crazy those bio-dynamic farmers are... I mean really what a bunch of hippies. How dare they suggest that organic is not good enough!? Get in line hippies. Join the sheeple, it's the right thing to do. You will be happier. :)

... not

And AB 856, California's new organic law. I'd love to hear some informed opinions on this.
http://jhbiotech.com/docs/AB-856-California-New-Organic-Law-Article.pdf

In 2008, the California Department of Food and Agriculture (CDFA) investigated a California-based organic fertilizer manufacturing company that claimed its product was suitable for organic food production. The product had been approved as organic by a third-party reviewer, but the CDFA found the material to be adulterated. This revelation in the media created a backlash from the organics industry, environmental groups, consumers, the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and even Congress had hearings on the matter. The California Senate Subcommittee on Food and Agriculture conducted an oversight hearing and found gaps in CDFA’s authority to deal with such an issue, so in February 2009 assembly bill AB 856 was introduced into the California State Legislature to fill gaps in CDFA’s authority to ensure the integrity of organic input materials (OIM) sold in California.

Looks like this was in response to "no bueno" animal based organics...
AND I QUOTE!

"The reason why manures and composts are now regulated is because high levels of arsenic have been observed in chicken manure"

"These materials include lime, gypsum, manures, compost and other materials previously not required to undergo organic review and certification."

ps. smoked a bunch of herb/hash grown with humanure, and it was fantastic. ha

 

[dextr0]

Bubblemang

u got any recipes u wanna share? I would like to see one and see this thread go in the right direction...

 

[Bubblemang]

Bubblemang

u got any recipes u wanna share? I would like to see one and see this thread go in the right direction...

Oh gosh, I would love to share.

Right now I'm doing the feed-tea-feed thing. The usual. No plain water until the end.

When I feed it's Biocanna, starting off low and working up to the low end of suggested use. I also use Nature Nectar N (soy) for extra Nitrogen, because it's lacking in the biocanna line. Bioboost, at 1/4 strength for all of flower, except last 10 days. duh, winning :)

For CalMag I'm using Calplex, which according to Ryan at bioag is a pretty good product, except the crap humic source they use. I'm using epsom salt for Mg source.

I'm starting with the VAM from Bioag, then switching up to full spectrum inoculants for late veg and flower. I have a ton of free samples of this type of product.

I'm using the recipes from the gentlemen already here on this thread, so I'll let them post the tea recipes. I've found that the compost or vermicasting source makes all the difference. No matter how hard I try to make my own, the farm I work with always has better compost. The diversity in their garden is immense compared to my boring diet.

Only product I don't like to boast about is HN's 0-10-0 because I'm not happy with it. I use two kelps. Hygrozyme.

Ask UP about Aloe Vera Juice and Yucca Juice. Two very cool veganic products :)

Ps. How could I forget, molasses, another wonderful plant derived plant food.

pps. really not happy with the bountea brewer, have to scrub the biofilm off of it constantly or the bubbles are blocked.

This site has some great info on teas.
http://www.microbeorganics.com/

 

[Udyana Peace]

And don't forget how crazy those bio-dynamic farmers are... I mean really what a bunch of hippies. How dare they suggest that organic is not good enough!? Get in line hippies. Join the sheeple, it's the right thing to do. You will be happier. :)

Bubblemang

"Biodynamic Farming" was an established method of food production for around 20 years before Lord Northbourne first used the term 'organic' in his book Look to the Land (1940). Available and an interesting read.

The first certification for sustainable farming was the Biodynamic Farming association, the Demeter group in Germany (formed in 1928).

Biodynamic Farming & Gardening Association in the USA (based in Southern Oregon) has their certification group, Demeter-USA, which like other organizations (Organic Trade Association, International Federation of Organic Agriculture Movements, Oregon Tilth, CCOF, et al) fall under USDA NOP to certify production, manufacturing and distribution of foods produced under their specific rules.

A certification agency can exceed the USDA's findings on this or that compound but they are not allowed to go below those rulings. (Sodium bicarbonate and potassium bicarbonate specifically come to mind)

Vegan Organics has none of this - it's simply a web site with links to blogs with people discussing what they 'believe' this term to mean. There is no legal 'vegan standard; by any stretch of the law or one's imagination.

UP

 

[Udyana Peace]

Here are some ideas on using plants to feed your garden...........

Nitrogen: Alfalfa, Clover, Soybeans, Field Beans, Vetch, Comfrey, Kelp, Licorice Root leaves, Nettle

Magnesium: Bladderwrack, Carrot leaves, Coltsfoot, Comfrey, Dandelion, Dulse, Horsetails, Kelp, Meadowsweet, Mistletoe, Mullein, Parsley, Peppermint, Primrose, Willow bark, Skunk Cabbage, Watercress

Potassium: Braken fern, Borage, Carrot leaves, Chamomile, Chickweed, Chicory, Clover, Yellow Dock, Eyebright, Fennel, Lamb's Quarters, Nettle, Mullein, Oak bark, Parsley, Peppermint, Pigweed, Plantains, Toadflax, Watercress, Yarrow, Banana skins

Phosphorous: Barley, Buckwheat, Calamus, Caraway, German Chamomile, Chickweed, Clovers, Dandelion, Yellow Dock, Garlic, Lamb's Quarters, Lemon Balm, Licorice root leaves, Lupine, Marigold flowers, Meadowsweet, Mustard, Pigweed, Purslane, Savoy, Sorrel, Vetches, Watercress, Yarrow

Boron: Gopher Spurge, Cardboard boxes, Beetroot leaves

Copper: Coltsfoot, Dandelion, Nettles, Plantains, Valerian, Yarrow

Manganese: Chickweed, Lamb's Quarters

Sulphur: Coltsfoot, Eyebright, Fennel, Garlic, Meadowsweet, Mullein, Mustard, Nettle, Plantain, Shepherds Purse, Watercress, Cabbage leaves, Onions

Iron: Sarsaparilla, Bladderwrack, Dulse, Iceland Moss, Kelp

Silicon: Oat Straw, Plantains, Valerian, Borage, Comfrey, Dandelion, Horsetail

Weed Tea / Fertilizer

Gather some herbs from the list above and put in a large container such as a bucket or barrel. Fill with water. Infuse for at least two weeks.

Application rate: 1/4 cup (2 oz.) to 1 gallon of water.

Information provided by Wild Thyme Farm in Oakville, Washington

Beets contain >45,000 ppm of Phosphorus making it one of the highest sources available outside of phosphate minerals.

UP

 

[mrbong73]

UP,
What would be the best way to use EM-1 (AEM) to help out this process?
I am going to make a dandelion extract and use a 1:1:100 ratio. One part AEM, one part molasses or agave nectar, and 100 parts water.
Does this sound correct to you?


Also here is another link for nutrients from "weeds"


Bubblemang: The charlie sheen thing is lame. Maybe put the biocanna on the shelf and try growing organic, meat or not.

I don't see myself giving up my fish products, ever.

Mrb

 

[Bubblemang]

Bubblemang: The charlie sheen thing is lame. Maybe put the biocanna on the shelf and try growing organic, meat or not.

I don't see myself giving up my fish products, ever.

Mrb

Watch what fish products you use, they are not created equal. UP can tell you more about what I mean by this. And please stop trying to put organic in a little box, ie soil, it's just silly.

And thanks for the tip on my sheenisms, I'll try to be more cool for you guys so I fit in better... LOL

No one even called me out for giving my plants tiger's blood. Certainly not vegan.

 

[Bubblemang]

Vegan Organics has none of this - it's simply a web site with links to blogs with people discussing what they 'believe' this term to mean. There is no legal 'vegan standard; by any stretch of the law or one's imagination.

UP

You know, I'm sorry vegan organic hort isn't part of the system officially. I know how much you love your certifications, and the system in general (rollseyes). That doesn't diminish the age old concept and practice of using plants to feed plants, ie green manure.

You, of anyone, should be able to figure it out. I care not for systemization of my grow methods. Results are what I am after. I'll leave the certification schemes to others.

There is no standard, that's why we are here. Notice I did not start this thread.

 

[Bubblemang]

Anyone want to take a guess as to what will have higher levels of cannabinoids?

A) My Indoor Vegan Organic Blackberry Kush hash

or

B) "Real Organic" Blackberry Kush hash, grown in the ground under the sun

 

[Udyana Peace]

UP,

What would be the best way to use EM-1 (AEM) to help out this process?

I am going to make a dandelion extract and use a 1:1:100 ratio. One part AEM, one part molasses or agave nectar, and 100 parts water.

Does this sound correct to you?

Mrb

mrbong73

The formulas that I originally found online from the various EM-1 companies around the world had almost a universal ratio of water, carbohydrates and the mother culture, EM-1.

At that time there was only one single company in each country that was licensed to take the mother culture from Japan and then produce the products that are available for consumers. In the USA that has changed dramatically.

At any rate the ratio was the "20-2-2" formula - 20 parts water, 2 parts of a carbohydrate and 2 parts of original (i.e. not AEM) of the EM-1. This would give you, obviously, 24 oz. of AEM and you would cover your plant material with this mix and then let the fermentation process begin until you reach < 3.8 pH with numbers reaching as low as 3.2 pH as 'gold'

Some formulas that I've looked at recommended adding 1 tsp. of a quality sea salt for the mineral content. I use the SEA-90 product (sea minerals) but you certainly do not need to go to that expense. Other formulas included the addition of 1 tablespoon (1/2 oz.) of glacial rock dust (the 'glacial milk' deal). A couple of teaspoons of kelp meal showed up quite often as well - it seed to depend on the location of the writer in relation to a sea shore from what I could tell.

Take your plant material and you want to break it up as much as possible and if you're using a small amount of say dandelions then you might want to consider running it through a food processor and turn it into a puree or something close. This will insure a quicker fermenting cycle from my experience.

Cover the smashed, pureed, whatever plant material with 2x - 3x of your EM-1, water and carbohydrate cocktail. That's it.

Carbohydrate sources that I've used (successfully) have included molasses, organic agave nectar, fresh papaya pulp, pineapple pulp, honey, maple syrup, apple juice or puree), beets and green coconut pulp. It really doesn't matter.

The items in bold are ones that have value outside their sugars with their own contributions to the final FPE.

HTH

UP