tattoojim
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yes my son :D
Classic Remix
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Markcastle definitely has some genetics and grow tips i would cut off my hand for still. LOL.
Hope you still have some of that REAL black haze stock in the vault bro.
good seein ya man..... havent spoken to ya since emailin harvest of '10... hope life has been treating you well and stay up... i know the struggle stay strong bro!
soserthc1
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Agreed I think that if Mark says it , its true not to many of mark's kind around here , man plants himself with his crop but would prob bring all the bull shits people out but I would still love to hear Mark and wouldn't doubt you for one min..... peace soser..... yes i'm out of my two day drunking stuper .... New Years is awesome around these ways .....
tattoojim
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yeah...must be lol :)...fun ride for a min
soserthc1
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Agreed more facts , stories , lie's whatever keep them coming makes for interesting read.... questions 1) who was the first seed bank
2) what was the rage before o g (besides white widow)
3) which forum is the most populated currently
4) who is tom hill ?
5) what is the largest plant yield wise you have seen or grown .......
soserthc1
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sweet , now that is interesting info Pontiac , thank you & keeping it coming , is there a NL story as there is a chem story as the NL#5 seems to be the NL5 referred to the most. This is Nevile's correct ? Sam the Skunk man is the Vegas Sam you here about responsible for Lemon Skunk ? Pardon my ignorance but I did not grow up around the cannabis scene as a kid and never really gave it much thought till about 5 years ago , when I started growing , back in the day was just happy when someone had tystick , panama red or Columbian Gold my boy's older brother used to hook us up with real green wet weed and used to tell us it was from Vietnam as he was in the war and was having it shipped to the states from a girl he met over there as I look back now . He was growing the stuff and not curing it ....lol... but we would go crazy for it and roll it up and sit it under a heat lamp till we could smoke it....
markscastle
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I d stay away from Sam the skunkman.He worked with the feds in the 70's to save his own skin.
tattoojim
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^^^^^ :)
tattoojim
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yep been waiting for the og bomb to drop ;)
symbiote420
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Sam's a freakin tool ....I was mysteriously locked out of my account @ the Mag, after a little disagreement over breeder ethics. He's against people using other people's work .......dude was kinda bitchy quoting my post, he thinks he made his strains without using other people's work :confused: ...huh?!!
If you didn't create any of the strains you used to make Skunk #1 .....which he didn't, you are guilty of something you're against! Seemed like a hypocrite to me, know I find out he worked with the Fed ....WOW!!!
Mad respect MC .....let's hear that OG story brutha, I got one myself!!!
If you didn't create any of the strains you used to make Skunk #1 .....which he didn't, you are guilty of something you're against! Seemed like a hypocrite to me, know I find out he worked with the Fed ....WOW!!!
Mad respect MC .....let's hear that OG story brutha, I got one myself!!!
symbiote420
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In my younger days ('89 - '94) I used to take some killer Affies down south with me! (I never could find good greens when I traveled so I learned to take my own) My peeps always called the Affies I brought with me "the Pines" ...that was such a funny name to me then, I asked them to find me some of those Pines when I ran out of my sack ....it was Afghan all the way, I talked to the dealer about getting me a nice amount to make the trip back home with, he told me they were getting it sent up from Florida. Well I have alot of family in the Panhandle and once I started asking em questions it turns out this "Pine" weed was likely a cross between Afghani and Jamaican genetics!!!
Only certain OGs, the LA Con and some of the really good Jamaican that still floats around here from time to time hava the look and smell that give me that Pine deja vue ....dense popcorn nugs with a skunky, earthy, piney, dank smell .....the stories of OG originating in Florida just may be true!
Only certain OGs, the LA Con and some of the really good Jamaican that still floats around here from time to time hava the look and smell that give me that Pine deja vue ....dense popcorn nugs with a skunky, earthy, piney, dank smell .....the stories of OG originating in Florida just may be true!
soserthc1
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come on Mark were begging here bro.....
Texas Kid
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I was just remembering a K2 and an Ice plant I had back then that was awesome and an Aurora Indica...all from Nirvana, go figure...in like '94 or '95 I think, I bought the entire Nirvana catalog for shits and grins..
Citral kush from Plural of Kush was another badass I had around
Tex
Citral kush from Plural of Kush was another badass I had around
Tex
Texas Kid
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Basic 5 or M39 still is a killer but everyone bags on it....when done right though, super yield and super buzz
Tex
Tex
symbiote420
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So true! In the late eighties to early nineties M39 was very abundant where I'm at.
And it's quite possible that the Chemdog 91 and OG do share a parent in their lineage ....my '91 and Ghost cuts are eerily similar .....Damn P, you got me thinking now bro ....Silver Haze huh? I can see it! Only tried the Super Silver Haze, I almost ordered a pack of SH a few times ....wish I had now.
The OSB, nice lil drive! We used to get some killer stuff from those guys, after 9/11 we stopped going over to Canada as much ....Marc Emery was a true pioneer, thanks for helping me get some killer gear bro! How much time does Emery have to serve on his sentence before he's released anyway?
Texas Kid
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I'll stir the pot a little with some old ass haze info I had in my old computer..
HAZE
"Purple haze was a strain from positronics .
Which is haze x purple#1 . Before that was no such thing as purple
haze . There was only haze from the haze brothers"
SamS,
What a crock, Positronics did not even have any Haze until I gave it to them after the mid 1980's. They crossed Haze with a local Pars Purple outdoor variety that was weak shit pot that had a nice color. FYI, Purple Haze was sold in the early 1970's by the Haze Brothers in Santa Cruz, I should know I smoked it back then every day for years....
BTW, some of the Purple Haze needed cold to turn purple, others did not need cold and were purple even if never cold. Purple Haze was pure Original Haze, and the purple color was not dominate, so easy to lose.
I also like the Silver Blue, and Lime Green Haze better then the Purple Haze, because they were more up, clear, and energetic in the high. But the Purple may have been the strongest Haze and got the top prices. It also looked great.
Did eneyone ever hear the band the Original Haze? Jerry Miller from the Moby Grape started the group in the 70's after smoking the Original Haze in Santa Cruz. He loved the Haze and bought a lot!!!-SamS
joellama,
The question is "i'm pretty sure the haze bros have kept a clone or two or original haze"
SamS,
First of all neither Haze Brother is still a grower, second they never made clones or used clones when they were growers. But if you are pretty sure then you must be right, even though you have never met the Haze brothers or smoked any of "their" Original Haze, have you?-SamS
The haze bros. gave birth to the strain that is the real purple haze. The columbian part of the haze was done by the haze bros. It is this original columbian pheno that came to be known as the purple haze. Their original haze was created by using several landraces: mexican, thai, Indian and columbian. This line was never stabilized by them, but passed on as seeds and eventually clones. wernard of positronics fame had two or three of the original clones and made seeds with them years ago. Among the clones he had, was the purple pheno or purple haze. nevil and Shantitaba also both posess the original haze line(haze bros) and are still working with them(although they only sell hybrids). Purple haze is still out there, either in seeds or clones. I know several people with seeds via the bros, but haven't seen the purple clone in several years. But I'm sure there are many others who hold their clone or seeds very close.
I think alot of the mixup on this strain and doubts have stemmed from songs and for the fact that many people call any purple weed, purple haze due to it's hype. Although, this makes it more difficult to verify for some and a myth like G13, there is still a real purple haze around. That being said, there are probably 5000 to 1 hybrids of the haze around compared to the original. This is for many reasons. easy of growth and finishing time being the most common. And this has not really diluted the line, just made it much harder for the average customer/grower to obtain, as many haven't preserved or sold their original, never crossed lines.
I also have to say, I find an African haze very hard to believe. I have grown pure sativas for close to thirty years, many being African, columbian, and thai. I have never once found an african sativa that even slightly resembled a pure haze. Don't get me wrong, I'm not ragging on you or anything, as it's possible you may hold the only african haze in your garden, and it's never seen the light of day or by anyone else for that matter. Just my personal
experience. take care GM
I passed on the Purple Haze from Positronics, but Posi was the source of my Haze pictured, Positronics "Original Haze". Their "Purple Haze" was a hybrid i believe w/maybe purple#1?. You'll have to check with Sam Skunkman as to what the other component in the Purple Haze was, he was doing the breeding for them at the time. What folks really want is the pure haze, but they just can't get that song out of their heads Best Regards,Tom
Hello all
it seems all of you are deeply moved by trying to prove some points here. Maybe I can try and clarify somethings for you.Nev and Sam worked on several things together at one stage in their careers. This meant there was shared work in seed and clone form. The Haze originals and the Skunk lines were two of these . The Haze bros were their original source of Haze in seed form. However after people begin working on seed from this point on only their particular versions of what they gave names to were based on their particular versions of that line. So of course differences will be manifest in breeding lines.
While Nev and I and Arjan joined forces Nev did his lines and I did for the GHSco selling our versions originally under the GHSco name. While Sam and Dave and others did their thing and in their versions (selection). The Sensi seed was originally Nev who supplied Ben with strains to sell in his shops. When Nev finished with Sensi like when Nev and I finished with GHSco we took our versions of the cup winning pedigrees away leaving only the strains that were owned jointly by the seed companies in question. What happened to the Haze and breeding programs at Sensi and GHSco neither Nev or I can be responsible for. What is clear is now at Mr Nice Seedbank the original versions of selected female and male plants that won all those cups with our old seed companies got a home together. What Sam
and the others did with their versions I and Nev can also not be sure. So if this helps clear up some of your myths I will be glad as I think that the proof is in the pudding. Grow out the versions and see for yourselves if you are still a skeptic...that is always my solution to curb all the bullshit that is floating in hot air.
All the best Shantibaba
There was also lots of 'Hazes' or 'Haze herb' so everyone might be right, as it was a generic termingology for being 'hazed' out, applied to the best herb...imho.
From the 50s there was great Mex and Colombian imports into the US, mostly small private importers i would assume. From the early 60s the communes in Cali where trying to grow/acclimatise some of these import genetics.
Haze was a generic name coined by them for these lines i think. As the seeds for many of these early grows would have been bag seed the name would have been chosen to fit, and what a perfect fit the name 'Haze' is for the Best S.American Sativas..but no one knows the varieties that went into any of these other lines. As prior to landraces being collected in the 60/70's there was only really seed from import, odd seeds here and there from mostly unknown strains. Collections of specific cultivars collected at source started in the 60s, and KIA4S one of the very first and all time greatest collectors..When the returnees from the early Nam excursions came home there was also Thai experience available, this from the mid to late 50's! Many of the Cali communes where growing and developing 'Haze' lines to fuel the rapidly expanding market in Cali. Nam returnees are recorded as saying they where 'Hazed' in the jungle in Thailand in the late 50s on great Thais. Special Ops returnees, in '56..The biggest suppliers at the time in Cali where also becoming highly organised and profficent growers to back up the imports and produce insitu in Cali..but they where also seeking out and bringing back the best herb from most corners of the great herb growing regions, South America and Asia particulary. It must have been a incredibly connisuer market in Cali at the time. So if the 'Origional Haze' was the best of these, ever, it must have been just as incredible and legendry as its described to be, i can believe it to be like a lick of Acid.
Only looks like a couple of these Haze lines have remained in pure forms. Albeit many times inbred from the origionals. The 'Origional Haze' marketed and developed by the Haze Bros was indeed the most famous, maybe because of its BOEL connection, the most expensive ever and last of the truly great 'Hazes', purely bred to feed that real old school hippy market who had been brought up on the absolute finest landrace Sativas from South America and Asia. So it must have been good.
Thanks to the Haze bros and KIA4s, BOEL etc we have the great legend of the 'Origional Haze', the one sold in Cali in the 70's with the posters, tshirts, etc, and proberly the best herb grown anywhere on earth at the time, but not the only Haze lines there where. They started breeding their Haze in 69/70 i think. KIA4S is 100% right as usual, the only 'Origional Haze' there is, is from the lines of the 'Haze Bros' of Santa Cruz, and thanks to him, the third Haze brother, its been shared with the world, the legendry Origional Haze, possibly the best herb grown anywhere on earth, ever! but not the only Haze.Just my take on it..Queijo
HAZE
"Purple haze was a strain from positronics .
Which is haze x purple#1 . Before that was no such thing as purple
haze . There was only haze from the haze brothers"
SamS,
What a crock, Positronics did not even have any Haze until I gave it to them after the mid 1980's. They crossed Haze with a local Pars Purple outdoor variety that was weak shit pot that had a nice color. FYI, Purple Haze was sold in the early 1970's by the Haze Brothers in Santa Cruz, I should know I smoked it back then every day for years....
BTW, some of the Purple Haze needed cold to turn purple, others did not need cold and were purple even if never cold. Purple Haze was pure Original Haze, and the purple color was not dominate, so easy to lose.
I also like the Silver Blue, and Lime Green Haze better then the Purple Haze, because they were more up, clear, and energetic in the high. But the Purple may have been the strongest Haze and got the top prices. It also looked great.
Did eneyone ever hear the band the Original Haze? Jerry Miller from the Moby Grape started the group in the 70's after smoking the Original Haze in Santa Cruz. He loved the Haze and bought a lot!!!-SamS
joellama,
The question is "i'm pretty sure the haze bros have kept a clone or two or original haze"
SamS,
First of all neither Haze Brother is still a grower, second they never made clones or used clones when they were growers. But if you are pretty sure then you must be right, even though you have never met the Haze brothers or smoked any of "their" Original Haze, have you?-SamS
The haze bros. gave birth to the strain that is the real purple haze. The columbian part of the haze was done by the haze bros. It is this original columbian pheno that came to be known as the purple haze. Their original haze was created by using several landraces: mexican, thai, Indian and columbian. This line was never stabilized by them, but passed on as seeds and eventually clones. wernard of positronics fame had two or three of the original clones and made seeds with them years ago. Among the clones he had, was the purple pheno or purple haze. nevil and Shantitaba also both posess the original haze line(haze bros) and are still working with them(although they only sell hybrids). Purple haze is still out there, either in seeds or clones. I know several people with seeds via the bros, but haven't seen the purple clone in several years. But I'm sure there are many others who hold their clone or seeds very close.
I think alot of the mixup on this strain and doubts have stemmed from songs and for the fact that many people call any purple weed, purple haze due to it's hype. Although, this makes it more difficult to verify for some and a myth like G13, there is still a real purple haze around. That being said, there are probably 5000 to 1 hybrids of the haze around compared to the original. This is for many reasons. easy of growth and finishing time being the most common. And this has not really diluted the line, just made it much harder for the average customer/grower to obtain, as many haven't preserved or sold their original, never crossed lines.
I also have to say, I find an African haze very hard to believe. I have grown pure sativas for close to thirty years, many being African, columbian, and thai. I have never once found an african sativa that even slightly resembled a pure haze. Don't get me wrong, I'm not ragging on you or anything, as it's possible you may hold the only african haze in your garden, and it's never seen the light of day or by anyone else for that matter. Just my personal
experience. take care GM
I passed on the Purple Haze from Positronics, but Posi was the source of my Haze pictured, Positronics "Original Haze". Their "Purple Haze" was a hybrid i believe w/maybe purple#1?. You'll have to check with Sam Skunkman as to what the other component in the Purple Haze was, he was doing the breeding for them at the time. What folks really want is the pure haze, but they just can't get that song out of their heads Best Regards,Tom
Hello all
it seems all of you are deeply moved by trying to prove some points here. Maybe I can try and clarify somethings for you.Nev and Sam worked on several things together at one stage in their careers. This meant there was shared work in seed and clone form. The Haze originals and the Skunk lines were two of these . The Haze bros were their original source of Haze in seed form. However after people begin working on seed from this point on only their particular versions of what they gave names to were based on their particular versions of that line. So of course differences will be manifest in breeding lines.
While Nev and I and Arjan joined forces Nev did his lines and I did for the GHSco selling our versions originally under the GHSco name. While Sam and Dave and others did their thing and in their versions (selection). The Sensi seed was originally Nev who supplied Ben with strains to sell in his shops. When Nev finished with Sensi like when Nev and I finished with GHSco we took our versions of the cup winning pedigrees away leaving only the strains that were owned jointly by the seed companies in question. What happened to the Haze and breeding programs at Sensi and GHSco neither Nev or I can be responsible for. What is clear is now at Mr Nice Seedbank the original versions of selected female and male plants that won all those cups with our old seed companies got a home together. What Sam
and the others did with their versions I and Nev can also not be sure. So if this helps clear up some of your myths I will be glad as I think that the proof is in the pudding. Grow out the versions and see for yourselves if you are still a skeptic...that is always my solution to curb all the bullshit that is floating in hot air.
All the best Shantibaba
There was also lots of 'Hazes' or 'Haze herb' so everyone might be right, as it was a generic termingology for being 'hazed' out, applied to the best herb...imho.
From the 50s there was great Mex and Colombian imports into the US, mostly small private importers i would assume. From the early 60s the communes in Cali where trying to grow/acclimatise some of these import genetics.
Haze was a generic name coined by them for these lines i think. As the seeds for many of these early grows would have been bag seed the name would have been chosen to fit, and what a perfect fit the name 'Haze' is for the Best S.American Sativas..but no one knows the varieties that went into any of these other lines. As prior to landraces being collected in the 60/70's there was only really seed from import, odd seeds here and there from mostly unknown strains. Collections of specific cultivars collected at source started in the 60s, and KIA4S one of the very first and all time greatest collectors..When the returnees from the early Nam excursions came home there was also Thai experience available, this from the mid to late 50's! Many of the Cali communes where growing and developing 'Haze' lines to fuel the rapidly expanding market in Cali. Nam returnees are recorded as saying they where 'Hazed' in the jungle in Thailand in the late 50s on great Thais. Special Ops returnees, in '56..The biggest suppliers at the time in Cali where also becoming highly organised and profficent growers to back up the imports and produce insitu in Cali..but they where also seeking out and bringing back the best herb from most corners of the great herb growing regions, South America and Asia particulary. It must have been a incredibly connisuer market in Cali at the time. So if the 'Origional Haze' was the best of these, ever, it must have been just as incredible and legendry as its described to be, i can believe it to be like a lick of Acid.
Only looks like a couple of these Haze lines have remained in pure forms. Albeit many times inbred from the origionals. The 'Origional Haze' marketed and developed by the Haze Bros was indeed the most famous, maybe because of its BOEL connection, the most expensive ever and last of the truly great 'Hazes', purely bred to feed that real old school hippy market who had been brought up on the absolute finest landrace Sativas from South America and Asia. So it must have been good.
Thanks to the Haze bros and KIA4s, BOEL etc we have the great legend of the 'Origional Haze', the one sold in Cali in the 70's with the posters, tshirts, etc, and proberly the best herb grown anywhere on earth at the time, but not the only Haze lines there where. They started breeding their Haze in 69/70 i think. KIA4S is 100% right as usual, the only 'Origional Haze' there is, is from the lines of the 'Haze Bros' of Santa Cruz, and thanks to him, the third Haze brother, its been shared with the world, the legendry Origional Haze, possibly the best herb grown anywhere on earth, ever! but not the only Haze.Just my take on it..Queijo
Texas Kid
Some guy with a light
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And some more on the Skunk #1 legend...
Skunk#1 was the result of a communal breeding effort by a small clique of breeders who worked the coastal hills surounding the Bay Area. The first "skunk" plant (C.Gold x AFG unstable) was not discovered by this group but Jingles who cut the unstable line but kept this one special plant for his personal garden. This was around '69 or so. anyway, the clone made its way round the club and soon this Bay Area group decided to adopt it as a project.
With the C.Gold mom used by Jingles as well as the Haze Bros they set about trying to create a stable version of Jingles "skunk". The result would be known as Skunk#1. Columbian Gold x Acapulco Gold/Afgani There are better people around here to tell you the exact details, not the least whom is Sam_Skunkman over @ TFD. Yes it's him.
My understanding of the SK#1 breeding group is that it started very small and grew as time went by. SkMan starting out as a Jr grower in the late 60's and rising to the level of chief breeder and seedmaker for the seed co. in the late 70's/early 80's. It was supposed to have been very difficult to join this group and a prospect would first have to be sponsered by a member of the inner circle then be required to breed out a certain number of versions of Sk#1 from both clones provided by the club as well as genetics they provided themselves. This way they assured quality control and widened the gene pool at the same time. The original unstable "model skunk"plant was a direct cross of C.Gold x Afg. But the Bay Area people soon found out how difficult it was going to be to cross a C.Gold to anything. So it was found that it was easier to cross these difficult plants to a plant that was already hybribized. Hence the Introduction of A.Gold into the mix. This also apparently added two other favorable traits. In addition to making crosses easier, high GCA has been stated by Clark as one of the goals of the breeders, the A.Gold also marginaly reduced flower time but most importent was its addition to calyx/leaf ratio. If you turn to P 248 of Mels Dlx you will find a pic of four mexican colas. Notice the two shots on the bottom are taken against the backround of Sandy W's barn. I'm almost 100% sure the plant on the lower right is A.Gold and about 90% that it's the primary A.Gold mom in Sk#1. Notice the foxtail style buds and hi C/L. Now imagine this crossed to an afgani, starting to get the picture? By the way most but not all of the Afganis were from MLW.
As i said earlier most of the Sacred Seeds breeding groups suffered disasters of one sort or another in the early days and in the case of Sk#1 it was the dreaded botritis cinerea, grey mold. Introduced by some of the early afgani crosses it kicked of a massive afgan genetics hunt/torture test. And while the late great Maple Leaf Wilson provided most of the genes they scowered every nook and cranny for an Afgani ;0. Many non Skunk#1 members of the Sacred Seeds who were also working on their own projects got involved.
I already spoke about Sandy W's involment and there were apparently others though the only one I am reasonably sure of was an East Bay biker/Vietnam Vet who went by the handle "Mendacino Joe", who as you can probably guess by his name he was supposed to have been one of the founders of the Trinity grow scene. Joe was working on a grape/pepper flavored mostly afgani hybrid not related to Sk#1, but he had a large collection of genetics and was a good grower and so he was included in the torture tests. The ultimate result of these tests was a special line called Skunk#18.2 (Sk#1 x Afg bx-1). It is a line that inparts incredible hardiness and pest/disease resistance on its offspring.
The Skunkman brought several kilos of these seeds with him along with his other stuff when he moved to holland in '82 in the wake of his release from prison.As far as I know he has only given these seeds to Nevil, Shanti, and Wernhard from Positronics. (ever wonder why Shiva Skunk {NL#5 x SK#1) is so resistant to spider mites?)
In the wake of the Sacred Seeds bust in '82, "Mendacino Joe" moved to the Vancouver islands and changing his handle to "Romulan" Joe bringing with him some early Sk#1s or deriviteves, a line of Central Ithsmus lowland Thai that may have been purchased from the Haze Bros and of course his grape/pepper flovored indica strain, Romulan. Soon to
be a BC classic. It was these lines that Pr. Ziggy @ Federation seeds in BC was supposed to have purchased from old Joe shorly before his death, and are offered as Island Sweet Skunk, Golden Triangle Thai, and Romulan. Torture tests and "inoculations" were mostly done outdoors with special patches of extra clones in an isolated area, which were then
diliberatly infected. Deseased and pest riddled local plants would be transplanted into these special gardens and then the plants were tested to destruction while the growers watched and made note of the strongest individauls. Sacred Seeds was all about division of labor.It's one of the ways they accomplished so much in so little time and they used natural selection to work in their favor. Skunk#1 first went on sale in '78 or '79. As far as I know it was the only strain that Sacred Seeds didn't give a discount on orders over 1k seeds. Seeds were 2$ a peice and people bitched about prices even back then. Especialy that no discount thing But like the Hazes (which could sellout a year ahead) SK#1 sold out every year. The seeds were sold as F1's made if I recall with a F ? fillial plant backcrossed to one of the original parents. Due to the communal nature of the project,there were many parents as each breeder included his own varietion, Skunk#1s bred from the same P1 stock but often getting to the goal a different way, for instance some variations used C.Gold on the male side. With tight control over the P1s the breeders could assure their stated goal of making true breeding stock but with the widest possible gene pool they could also be sure to achieve both high SCA and GCA. also stated goals of the project.
Now I can tell you from personal experience that exactly what constituted a "skunk" was a matter of just a little debate but they basically came down into camps which actually carried forward into the Dutch world. The "Sweet Skunk" camp, which including the SkMan, and the "Stinky Skunk" camp. In terms of modern Sk#1 the CC/TFD Skunkman bred "the Pure" is bred for more consistant plants and towards the SkMans ideal Sk#1. While the stinky side of the house would be best represented by the SeedBank/Mr Nice skunks which also have more variation in types like the earlier Californiaskunks. I must state here that there is no right answer, its a matter of taste and a debate thats been going for on about 30 years. In '82 I came home one night and turned on the TV. Just as they went to commercial the news bimbo teased the story, "comin right up after this" police official say they got the source of the skunk. Yeah right I thought, we'd heard these claims before, always to be followed by shot of some deputies pulling three scragly plants from some poor sucker's patch. This time it was different, this time they were standing in front of a warehouse.
Sacred Seeds was busted in '82. The Skunkman was arrested and the cops were in possetion of the groups main seedmaking op. But this bunch was savey and had pre-paid bailbonds/lawyers on retainer and so SkMan was out in a matter of hours. And so began one of the greatest capers in Sacred Seeds history.
An event I will call "the great rootball rescue". Skunkman, out on bail and eager to find out the condition of his grow rooms stakes out the grow to make sure the cops aren't waiting there for him. After sitting for hours he finally gets over his paranoia and makes a cursery recon and can't believe what he finds, the cops in either there arrogance or ignorance have left the place secured with only police tape. checking the grow as well as the dumpster out back the found many plants cut well above the the first node and some that had been simply pulled from their containers and tossed whole. the dumpster was also full of seeds and it was obvious that the cops had broken many seed containers but because there were so many eventually just started throwing jars out whole. the cops had left all the stuff there until morning when they could properly catolog it, including all the grow equip. Skunkman sprang into action, called a number of the un-busted members of the club and the "great rootball rescue" was under way. His friends showed up and they litteraly stripped the place of every thing usefull. Lights were sold to pay legal fees, the rootballs, including the Haze mom SkMan has to this day were nursed back to health by the people who escaped prosicution and the police were left with a distinct lack of evidence. Causing some of the cases to collapse entirly and some, like SkMan to serve greatly reduced sentances. If they'de gotten him on everything they wanted him for he'd still be there. Instead, He served less than a year and on his release he collected up his strains from his friends, including Sk#18.2 rescued from the dumpster and made his way to amsterdam were he founded Cultivators Choice seed co, named after the top award at the annual Sacred Seeds harvest fests held in Nor Cal from 67-83. A year later Skunkmans new friend aqquire a second batch of Sacred Seeds Sk#1 seeds. When Cultivators Choice went out of biz a few year later Nevil bought most of their stock. While both worked from the same set of Sk#1 females each has there own males (breeders never give up a male) selected from the only two importations of authentic Sk#1 into Holland.
The Cultivators Choice variation is the one offered by TFD as "the Pure" The SeedBank version is @ Mr Nice, Shanti's Shit is his Sk#1/Afg variation with "Pure Shit" aka pure Sk#1 upcoming. I'm sure there's more but I'm all
"skunked" out right now. Peace NdF
Skunk#1 was the result of a communal breeding effort by a small clique of breeders who worked the coastal hills surounding the Bay Area. The first "skunk" plant (C.Gold x AFG unstable) was not discovered by this group but Jingles who cut the unstable line but kept this one special plant for his personal garden. This was around '69 or so. anyway, the clone made its way round the club and soon this Bay Area group decided to adopt it as a project.
With the C.Gold mom used by Jingles as well as the Haze Bros they set about trying to create a stable version of Jingles "skunk". The result would be known as Skunk#1. Columbian Gold x Acapulco Gold/Afgani There are better people around here to tell you the exact details, not the least whom is Sam_Skunkman over @ TFD. Yes it's him.
My understanding of the SK#1 breeding group is that it started very small and grew as time went by. SkMan starting out as a Jr grower in the late 60's and rising to the level of chief breeder and seedmaker for the seed co. in the late 70's/early 80's. It was supposed to have been very difficult to join this group and a prospect would first have to be sponsered by a member of the inner circle then be required to breed out a certain number of versions of Sk#1 from both clones provided by the club as well as genetics they provided themselves. This way they assured quality control and widened the gene pool at the same time. The original unstable "model skunk"plant was a direct cross of C.Gold x Afg. But the Bay Area people soon found out how difficult it was going to be to cross a C.Gold to anything. So it was found that it was easier to cross these difficult plants to a plant that was already hybribized. Hence the Introduction of A.Gold into the mix. This also apparently added two other favorable traits. In addition to making crosses easier, high GCA has been stated by Clark as one of the goals of the breeders, the A.Gold also marginaly reduced flower time but most importent was its addition to calyx/leaf ratio. If you turn to P 248 of Mels Dlx you will find a pic of four mexican colas. Notice the two shots on the bottom are taken against the backround of Sandy W's barn. I'm almost 100% sure the plant on the lower right is A.Gold and about 90% that it's the primary A.Gold mom in Sk#1. Notice the foxtail style buds and hi C/L. Now imagine this crossed to an afgani, starting to get the picture? By the way most but not all of the Afganis were from MLW.
As i said earlier most of the Sacred Seeds breeding groups suffered disasters of one sort or another in the early days and in the case of Sk#1 it was the dreaded botritis cinerea, grey mold. Introduced by some of the early afgani crosses it kicked of a massive afgan genetics hunt/torture test. And while the late great Maple Leaf Wilson provided most of the genes they scowered every nook and cranny for an Afgani ;0. Many non Skunk#1 members of the Sacred Seeds who were also working on their own projects got involved.
I already spoke about Sandy W's involment and there were apparently others though the only one I am reasonably sure of was an East Bay biker/Vietnam Vet who went by the handle "Mendacino Joe", who as you can probably guess by his name he was supposed to have been one of the founders of the Trinity grow scene. Joe was working on a grape/pepper flavored mostly afgani hybrid not related to Sk#1, but he had a large collection of genetics and was a good grower and so he was included in the torture tests. The ultimate result of these tests was a special line called Skunk#18.2 (Sk#1 x Afg bx-1). It is a line that inparts incredible hardiness and pest/disease resistance on its offspring.
The Skunkman brought several kilos of these seeds with him along with his other stuff when he moved to holland in '82 in the wake of his release from prison.As far as I know he has only given these seeds to Nevil, Shanti, and Wernhard from Positronics. (ever wonder why Shiva Skunk {NL#5 x SK#1) is so resistant to spider mites?)
In the wake of the Sacred Seeds bust in '82, "Mendacino Joe" moved to the Vancouver islands and changing his handle to "Romulan" Joe bringing with him some early Sk#1s or deriviteves, a line of Central Ithsmus lowland Thai that may have been purchased from the Haze Bros and of course his grape/pepper flovored indica strain, Romulan. Soon to
be a BC classic. It was these lines that Pr. Ziggy @ Federation seeds in BC was supposed to have purchased from old Joe shorly before his death, and are offered as Island Sweet Skunk, Golden Triangle Thai, and Romulan. Torture tests and "inoculations" were mostly done outdoors with special patches of extra clones in an isolated area, which were then
diliberatly infected. Deseased and pest riddled local plants would be transplanted into these special gardens and then the plants were tested to destruction while the growers watched and made note of the strongest individauls. Sacred Seeds was all about division of labor.It's one of the ways they accomplished so much in so little time and they used natural selection to work in their favor. Skunk#1 first went on sale in '78 or '79. As far as I know it was the only strain that Sacred Seeds didn't give a discount on orders over 1k seeds. Seeds were 2$ a peice and people bitched about prices even back then. Especialy that no discount thing But like the Hazes (which could sellout a year ahead) SK#1 sold out every year. The seeds were sold as F1's made if I recall with a F ? fillial plant backcrossed to one of the original parents. Due to the communal nature of the project,there were many parents as each breeder included his own varietion, Skunk#1s bred from the same P1 stock but often getting to the goal a different way, for instance some variations used C.Gold on the male side. With tight control over the P1s the breeders could assure their stated goal of making true breeding stock but with the widest possible gene pool they could also be sure to achieve both high SCA and GCA. also stated goals of the project.
Now I can tell you from personal experience that exactly what constituted a "skunk" was a matter of just a little debate but they basically came down into camps which actually carried forward into the Dutch world. The "Sweet Skunk" camp, which including the SkMan, and the "Stinky Skunk" camp. In terms of modern Sk#1 the CC/TFD Skunkman bred "the Pure" is bred for more consistant plants and towards the SkMans ideal Sk#1. While the stinky side of the house would be best represented by the SeedBank/Mr Nice skunks which also have more variation in types like the earlier Californiaskunks. I must state here that there is no right answer, its a matter of taste and a debate thats been going for on about 30 years. In '82 I came home one night and turned on the TV. Just as they went to commercial the news bimbo teased the story, "comin right up after this" police official say they got the source of the skunk. Yeah right I thought, we'd heard these claims before, always to be followed by shot of some deputies pulling three scragly plants from some poor sucker's patch. This time it was different, this time they were standing in front of a warehouse.
Sacred Seeds was busted in '82. The Skunkman was arrested and the cops were in possetion of the groups main seedmaking op. But this bunch was savey and had pre-paid bailbonds/lawyers on retainer and so SkMan was out in a matter of hours. And so began one of the greatest capers in Sacred Seeds history.
An event I will call "the great rootball rescue". Skunkman, out on bail and eager to find out the condition of his grow rooms stakes out the grow to make sure the cops aren't waiting there for him. After sitting for hours he finally gets over his paranoia and makes a cursery recon and can't believe what he finds, the cops in either there arrogance or ignorance have left the place secured with only police tape. checking the grow as well as the dumpster out back the found many plants cut well above the the first node and some that had been simply pulled from their containers and tossed whole. the dumpster was also full of seeds and it was obvious that the cops had broken many seed containers but because there were so many eventually just started throwing jars out whole. the cops had left all the stuff there until morning when they could properly catolog it, including all the grow equip. Skunkman sprang into action, called a number of the un-busted members of the club and the "great rootball rescue" was under way. His friends showed up and they litteraly stripped the place of every thing usefull. Lights were sold to pay legal fees, the rootballs, including the Haze mom SkMan has to this day were nursed back to health by the people who escaped prosicution and the police were left with a distinct lack of evidence. Causing some of the cases to collapse entirly and some, like SkMan to serve greatly reduced sentances. If they'de gotten him on everything they wanted him for he'd still be there. Instead, He served less than a year and on his release he collected up his strains from his friends, including Sk#18.2 rescued from the dumpster and made his way to amsterdam were he founded Cultivators Choice seed co, named after the top award at the annual Sacred Seeds harvest fests held in Nor Cal from 67-83. A year later Skunkmans new friend aqquire a second batch of Sacred Seeds Sk#1 seeds. When Cultivators Choice went out of biz a few year later Nevil bought most of their stock. While both worked from the same set of Sk#1 females each has there own males (breeders never give up a male) selected from the only two importations of authentic Sk#1 into Holland.
The Cultivators Choice variation is the one offered by TFD as "the Pure" The SeedBank version is @ Mr Nice, Shanti's Shit is his Sk#1/Afg variation with "Pure Shit" aka pure Sk#1 upcoming. I'm sure there's more but I'm all
"skunked" out right now. Peace NdF
Texas Kid
Some guy with a light
- 4,159
- 263
A History of Cannabis in Holland
By Ben Dronkers
(Ben Dronkers is the founder and president of Sensi Seed Bank. He has been in the cannabusiness since the early 1980s.)
The breeding and selling of marijuana and cannabis seeds occurs in many places around the globe, but the Netherlands, and Amsterdam in particular, remains the epicenter of the cannabis earthquake currently shaking up the planet. What unique set of unfluences allowed the Netherlands to become so prominent in the cannabis world ?
There is evidence that the cannabis plant has been used in the Netherlands for hundreds, possibly thousands of years. Early residents of the marshy areas that became the Netherlands had access to hemp plants for food, fuel, and fiber. As the Dutch language evolved into its present form, one word came to describe any and all sorts of plants: hennep.
Dutch farmers began stretching their expensive imported tobacco with the leaves and flowers of the hennep plant in the early 1500s. At this time, we have no way of knowing how much THC was in those early plants, but there is a good chance that they contained some.
The Netherlands has long been a haven for those whose political, religious, or social values were not tolerated in other places.For generations, the Dutch culture has embraced the value of allowing others to live as they choose, so long as it doesn't interfere with the whole of society. Along with the political and social unrest of the 1960s came a (Western) worldwide explosion in the use of cannabis and psychedelics. Part of this cultural upheaval was due to travel. Many young Europenas left the comforts of home or university to travel to the exotic East. In those days, the world political situation was such that one could drive from Europe to Tabgiers, Delhi or Kabul, and many did.On their travels, the young adventurers adopted many foreign practices - from meditation to vegetarianism to hashish smoking. Soon hashish began to find its way back to Western Europe, with Amsterdam, Frankfurt, and other cities becoming consumption and distribution centers.
Not surprisingly, the Dutch official reaction to this trend was rational and practical. By the mid-1970s, there was widespread use of marijuana, speed, heroin, LSD, and other recreational drugs presenting various degrees of health risk to Dutch citizens. The then-Minister of Health and Interior, Irene Vorik, examined the medical and social studies of the harm cause by the various substances. Vorink noted that young people often experiment with tobacco, sex, alcohol, and other drugs as a natural part of the maturation period. She wanted to reduce any potential harm, and she felt that Dutch youth faced the most danger. She decreed that cannabis was considerably less harmful than the other drugs and that the most common way to be introduced to drugs "harder" than cannabis was directly through the drug suppliers themselves. Vorink recommended the authorities stop persecuting people for the consumption and sales of personal amounts of cannabis. She also took advantage of existing youth centers as places to permit the sales of small amounts of hashish and marijuana. It was in these youth clubs that the commercial coffeeshops of today were born.
Long before it became socially current or pilitically contentious, cannabis had certainly grown in the Netherlands, so it was logical that the smokers of the 1960s would try to grow their own. In the mid-1960s, artists Kees Hoekert and Jasper Grootveld fought the first symbolic battles to be permitted to grow cannabis. Their plants were leafy and low in potency, more rope than dope. By 1970, the Holland Hemp Company / Hokkah Tribe was growing for buds. Even though seeds came from Thailand and Afghanistan, it was difficult to get anything very potent, largely because it is very hard to get mature buds outdoors in Holland before the autumn rain and cold kill the plants.
In 1978, people brought the first killer bud to Netherlands from the States and a standerd was established. The first good seeds from the States came in about 1980. The 1980s also sawthe formation of Lowlands Seed Company, the Seed Bank, SSSC and Sensi Seeds. It was through the journalistic efforts of Ed Rosenthal that breeders started to communicate with each other, exchanging information and genetics. In 1985, strains developed in the U.S. - Skunk #1, Early Pearl, Original Haze, Northern Lights, and Holland's Hope - were the first grown in Dutch greenhouses. This revolutionized the growing and smoking scene.
Slowly but surely, as the potency increased, bud smoking began its rise in popularity in the Netherlands. In the mid-1980s Sensi Seeds introduced large scale cloning. By the end of the decade, the emphasis had shifted to production of green bud, from clones rather than seeds, to sell in coffeeshops or keep as personal stash. Imported hashish maintained its popularity throughout the 1980s, but sales of Dutch grown grass began to increase dramatically every year after 1985. By the early 1990s grass sales exceeded hash sales in most coffee shops and continued to grow in share of the market until the mid-1990s. Shop owners have reported that since about 1996, they sell about 2 grams of bud for every 1 gram of hashish sold. A small but growing number of Dutch smokers are adopting the North American practice of smoking their cannabis pure rather than the traditional hash and tobacco mix in Europe. As breeding advances and greater emphasis is placed on taste rather than potency, more smokers here may well "go pure".
The Dutch have made it possible to breed and produce seeds, but without the existing greenhouse industry and other farming techniques, the cannabis growers would not have moved ahead so fast. With the obstacles presented by Holland's weather addressed, the social and political climate made it a logical place for the industry to flourish. By the late 1980s, there was a quiet trade in seeds to the world from three or four busy companies. In 1987, U.S. smoker's magazine, High Times, started hosting a Cannabis Cup. The event was modeled on the harvest festivals of the late 1970s and early 1980s in Northern California. A group of High Times writers evaluated the entries from various seed breeders and growers in Holland. In 1989, the biggest trader was compromised by their U.S. contact and decided to shut down. The scene altered radically for a few years, with some major shifts in control over basic breeding strains. In the years following this breach, there wasn't much competition, so the Cup emphasis switched over to coffeeshops. The seed company competition was reinstated in 1994, with three firms entering varieties. By 2000, the number has rizen to more than a dozen. At present, there is a multi-million-guilder cannabis seed industry in the Netherlands. Cannabis seeds have become just like tulips, vegetables, cheese, and tomatoes - a major export product. In spite of a drug war, Holland still bombards the world with seeds.
These are all things i snagged off of OG before it went down
Tex
By Ben Dronkers
(Ben Dronkers is the founder and president of Sensi Seed Bank. He has been in the cannabusiness since the early 1980s.)
The breeding and selling of marijuana and cannabis seeds occurs in many places around the globe, but the Netherlands, and Amsterdam in particular, remains the epicenter of the cannabis earthquake currently shaking up the planet. What unique set of unfluences allowed the Netherlands to become so prominent in the cannabis world ?
There is evidence that the cannabis plant has been used in the Netherlands for hundreds, possibly thousands of years. Early residents of the marshy areas that became the Netherlands had access to hemp plants for food, fuel, and fiber. As the Dutch language evolved into its present form, one word came to describe any and all sorts of plants: hennep.
Dutch farmers began stretching their expensive imported tobacco with the leaves and flowers of the hennep plant in the early 1500s. At this time, we have no way of knowing how much THC was in those early plants, but there is a good chance that they contained some.
The Netherlands has long been a haven for those whose political, religious, or social values were not tolerated in other places.For generations, the Dutch culture has embraced the value of allowing others to live as they choose, so long as it doesn't interfere with the whole of society. Along with the political and social unrest of the 1960s came a (Western) worldwide explosion in the use of cannabis and psychedelics. Part of this cultural upheaval was due to travel. Many young Europenas left the comforts of home or university to travel to the exotic East. In those days, the world political situation was such that one could drive from Europe to Tabgiers, Delhi or Kabul, and many did.On their travels, the young adventurers adopted many foreign practices - from meditation to vegetarianism to hashish smoking. Soon hashish began to find its way back to Western Europe, with Amsterdam, Frankfurt, and other cities becoming consumption and distribution centers.
Not surprisingly, the Dutch official reaction to this trend was rational and practical. By the mid-1970s, there was widespread use of marijuana, speed, heroin, LSD, and other recreational drugs presenting various degrees of health risk to Dutch citizens. The then-Minister of Health and Interior, Irene Vorik, examined the medical and social studies of the harm cause by the various substances. Vorink noted that young people often experiment with tobacco, sex, alcohol, and other drugs as a natural part of the maturation period. She wanted to reduce any potential harm, and she felt that Dutch youth faced the most danger. She decreed that cannabis was considerably less harmful than the other drugs and that the most common way to be introduced to drugs "harder" than cannabis was directly through the drug suppliers themselves. Vorink recommended the authorities stop persecuting people for the consumption and sales of personal amounts of cannabis. She also took advantage of existing youth centers as places to permit the sales of small amounts of hashish and marijuana. It was in these youth clubs that the commercial coffeeshops of today were born.
Long before it became socially current or pilitically contentious, cannabis had certainly grown in the Netherlands, so it was logical that the smokers of the 1960s would try to grow their own. In the mid-1960s, artists Kees Hoekert and Jasper Grootveld fought the first symbolic battles to be permitted to grow cannabis. Their plants were leafy and low in potency, more rope than dope. By 1970, the Holland Hemp Company / Hokkah Tribe was growing for buds. Even though seeds came from Thailand and Afghanistan, it was difficult to get anything very potent, largely because it is very hard to get mature buds outdoors in Holland before the autumn rain and cold kill the plants.
In 1978, people brought the first killer bud to Netherlands from the States and a standerd was established. The first good seeds from the States came in about 1980. The 1980s also sawthe formation of Lowlands Seed Company, the Seed Bank, SSSC and Sensi Seeds. It was through the journalistic efforts of Ed Rosenthal that breeders started to communicate with each other, exchanging information and genetics. In 1985, strains developed in the U.S. - Skunk #1, Early Pearl, Original Haze, Northern Lights, and Holland's Hope - were the first grown in Dutch greenhouses. This revolutionized the growing and smoking scene.
Slowly but surely, as the potency increased, bud smoking began its rise in popularity in the Netherlands. In the mid-1980s Sensi Seeds introduced large scale cloning. By the end of the decade, the emphasis had shifted to production of green bud, from clones rather than seeds, to sell in coffeeshops or keep as personal stash. Imported hashish maintained its popularity throughout the 1980s, but sales of Dutch grown grass began to increase dramatically every year after 1985. By the early 1990s grass sales exceeded hash sales in most coffee shops and continued to grow in share of the market until the mid-1990s. Shop owners have reported that since about 1996, they sell about 2 grams of bud for every 1 gram of hashish sold. A small but growing number of Dutch smokers are adopting the North American practice of smoking their cannabis pure rather than the traditional hash and tobacco mix in Europe. As breeding advances and greater emphasis is placed on taste rather than potency, more smokers here may well "go pure".
The Dutch have made it possible to breed and produce seeds, but without the existing greenhouse industry and other farming techniques, the cannabis growers would not have moved ahead so fast. With the obstacles presented by Holland's weather addressed, the social and political climate made it a logical place for the industry to flourish. By the late 1980s, there was a quiet trade in seeds to the world from three or four busy companies. In 1987, U.S. smoker's magazine, High Times, started hosting a Cannabis Cup. The event was modeled on the harvest festivals of the late 1970s and early 1980s in Northern California. A group of High Times writers evaluated the entries from various seed breeders and growers in Holland. In 1989, the biggest trader was compromised by their U.S. contact and decided to shut down. The scene altered radically for a few years, with some major shifts in control over basic breeding strains. In the years following this breach, there wasn't much competition, so the Cup emphasis switched over to coffeeshops. The seed company competition was reinstated in 1994, with three firms entering varieties. By 2000, the number has rizen to more than a dozen. At present, there is a multi-million-guilder cannabis seed industry in the Netherlands. Cannabis seeds have become just like tulips, vegetables, cheese, and tomatoes - a major export product. In spite of a drug war, Holland still bombards the world with seeds.
These are all things i snagged off of OG before it went down
Tex
Texas Kid
Some guy with a light
- 4,159
- 263
Here is a trippy chart from DJ Short
Texas Kid
Some guy with a light
- 4,159
- 263
I have all the old seed bank catalogs from '87, '88, and '89 and the Cannabis Castle article about Nev...if ya'll want me to post up just holla
Tex
Tex
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