10 Blue Dream Trees - 11kw Vertical

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Norm, I'd like to keep the plant count at 10, and the Quantums are great so far. It was weird seeing the "Made in China" sticker on them. One minute it feels like I am holding a shiny gold bar and the next I see the China sticker - not saying that manufacturers in China don't produce quality goods, but you know.
I am using all the nutrients because I think it will speed up the veg time, and I thought that is how it is suppose to be done. I only fed one plant tonight, to see how it reacts before I feed the others. I heard 70/30 coco perlite was a great ratio, and I have also heard that 100% coco is better, but I heard more people say 70/30 which is why I chose that.
The CO2 is off right now, but the room's co2 level stays between 800-1200ppm of human produced co2. When I work in the room for longer periods it has gone as high as 2000ppm.

Donkdbz, very nice! How did you handle your runoff? I checked my height limit. The distance from the top of the 25gal smart pot to the ceiling is about 4ft 6in. I will probably cut the smart pots down to 20gal or something to gain the extra inches. You said I should have 5ft, correct?

Ape, Wow no additives until flower!? So should I wait another day or two to bomb or spray with Avid, since I sprayed with Azamax yesterday?

Why does the H&G feed chart show to use the additives from day one of veg if I can get better results without?? Any recommendations on my next nutrient batch are welcomed. My conversion rate is .5. Is this nutrient calculator good for me to stick to? I have read that some of these nute calculators are faulty in that the dose in mls produces a higher ppm than recommended on the feed chart, so it doesn't match up. But if I can use it and stick to it then that would simplify things.

Does anyone have experience using Dr. Bronner's soap and rosemary oil as a mite treatment/cure? Someone recommended that I use it to treat the mite problem.

they say to use the additives from day one to sell more product. I dont use H&G but every nute calc ive used in the past has been high on ratios.

if you want your plant count at 10 and you want 2 ps a light you have a shitload of vegging in front of you. it fuckin suks that after youll all up and running to get infested plants. Id be pissed.
I just chopped a stardawg that was in a 10 gal airpot. youll need bigger to achieve what you want. heres a pic of what it looked like goin in in front of a 4x4 tray and when it was chopped. grown with botanicare coco and only canna coco A/b and calmag. yiled was a few grams over a pound. fed it once a day at 1.2 ec and 6.1 ph.

I got about 30-40 crops of coco in and if you have 15-20% runoff you will save money in the long run. no flushing the whole run, but you have to keep your medium moist have some runoff in coco IME to keep from any salts building up or either you will have to flush or your not gonna be at full throttle.

since you askin about nutes recipes and stuff, imo additives dont equal yield. 99% of them are not goin to give you better herb or more yield.


Keep in mind...

First, yes I used additives. I love the results in coco I get using my base nutes, bioweed, roots excel, and a custom calmag I get in anaheim. The bioweed rocks...

Next...honestly I feel sorta bad by all the different directions I hear people going on,the thread. I can see how someone starting out could be overwhelmed. So im gonna give some facts:
1. The miticides are not modal...meaning they dont go inside of the plants and become systemic. Thats like saying my girlfriend shouldnt kiss me because I used athletes foot cream last month!...lol.
2. Large trees can become mite free if pesticides are used at full strength and are mixed fresh with a wetting agent.
3. All the azamax and rosemary products are great control items, but dude...seriously you are attempting to run a garden larger than 99% of people in the hobby will NEVER do. So resort to major league tactics. U could even lock those suckers in a 4x4 hut and put two no-pest strips for a few days as the dichlorvos gas will kill all the mites and eggs. But whatever u chose do it hard and heavy.

Just a side note...I would always be amazed when I ran the PNC of guys would tell me how they lost entire gardens to mites and/or mold. I find that totally ridiculous actually. Guy after guy would tell me how he used a pesticide at 50% or how he didnt know that white powder growing for months was bad...etc,etc...i could go on and on brother. Just hit those bitching mites full strength and move on! :-)


The light has been on for 2 hours now, which is 4 hours after the p bomb went off. Do I need to spray the leaves off with RO water? The light is at 50% and I raised it 2ft 6in away from the canopy. When can I drop the light back down? If I do need to rinse the leaves or lower the light can it be done 12 hours from now with no harm to the plants? If it must be done now then it will be.



You r fine...no need to rinse. Next time consider setting the fogger off shortly after your lights naturally turn off. At the same time the exhaust should be disabled. Consider how much more affective12 or 18 straight hours of the fogger spray killing the entire time and getting the most out of it. Then simply resuming your fans and anything else once the ON cycle returns.

Any reason u let the fogger stay in the room for such a short time?


Norm, I originally factored in 8 weeks for veg, but hope that number can be reduced to 6 max. I hope that using CO2 and additives with the lights on 24/7 will decrease veg time significantly. How long did you veg the stardawg to get it to that size?


Veg time...

With that much light and co2 you would have monsters that were too big after 8 weeks. Id guess with the right lighting combo he could get plants like that in a month depending on techniques used. If u need to veg longer than a month consider using a separate vegging room. Personally, I like DDs technique of using high watts over a flood table to get good growth rates in a short time in veg. Again my friend, you have a BIG LEAGUE setup there...u dont want to waste that beautiful flower room spending almost equal time vegging and flowering. U could veg all thosed plants under a single 1000 watter and a 4x4 instead and use that beautiful room as it was intended for...



U dont even need 24/7 imo. Growth rates r plenty fast in coco using good ferts, high watts, and co2. When dialed in properly your plants should be growing 2-3" per day during veg.


Ape is on the money. Vegging in that room is a waste of time and money. Easy mode Veg is a 4x8 tent with a 4x8 tray. 2-6" cool tubes with 1000watters. Cool with 6" HO fan on a Cap-Vsc-Dne. Run lights 7pm-1pm.

Basically for you take 18 rooted cuts put in one gallon smart pots. Use only 1 of the 1000 at 50%. turn light up and lower so at the end of the week your 100% and 18"s off top of canopy. Then one you see enough roots popping out the pots bump em to the 5 gallons. Then you actually have to turn the second light on to spread em apart.

found the finish pic



One reason I want to do 24/7 lighting is because I don't have a way to program my a/c's to be at different temperature settings for day and night. It has to be set at one temp and left there. Since the plants prefer different temps for day and night what would be the optimum temp to set it at for veg and flower? For the veg lighting I planned to have 5 lights on for 12 hours and 6 lights on for 12 hours, but would like to change that save on eletricity. What do you think 18/6 or 20/4? Then for the last 7 days of veg I would crank all 11 on for the entire light cycle - I could cut them all to 50 or 75% power the first couple of days and 100% for the last 5 days before flip, if it would help to lessen stress.

I could have built a wall sectioning off a veg room, but the vision for that whole room was for it to be full of calming, peaceful, and therapeutic trees.

I definitely want to figure out how to get a pre-veg area set up, or more so where to set it up. It would save so much time, but I just don't like the extra plant count. I will probably just do my veg at a different location then cargo van them over to the flower spot - I will make sure to have different mm state id card holders assigned to the locations to account for the plants that are there - just playing by the rules and learning how to use them in my favor because for a long time they were not.

Awesome plant Donk! I hope mine will come out looking just as healthy. I like how you have it sitting on the shelving on the floor. Very simple and efficient - two things I am realizing are very important when doing a large grow. Thanks for the grow box info. I may go that route and plop one of those down somewhere.


Downside is my runoff makes hell of a mess and dehumid runs a lil more often...but floors are concrete u can see the nutes turned em from green to white.

most likely I am just gonna get some 2x2 white botanicare trays prop em up 4"s to fit a 3/4 drain fitting then run it to piece of 2" abs like they do for MPB returns

just noticed you already have drain pans. just prop em up a slight tilt. like a 2x4 flat on drain side and 2-2x4s on other. cut the racks down to fit inside of the water heater pans


If the drain on the pan is only 2 - 3 inches off the ground then wouldn't the container that it drains into have to be shorter than that? It wouldn't be able to hold much liquid being so small. If I had the drain tube running into a 5gal bucket then there would be to much height and then the runoff would just collect in the pan. Anybody have ideas on how to make that work?



Daytime and nite temperature differences are not nearly as important in veg. Believe me, there are a million growers that grow perfectly fine herb that dont even have ac units to get a temperature fluctuation.


Hello, I have multiple strains from pnc and was wondering about flowering times and genetics of a few strains I currently have in my mother room. First off, the strain I have that I can find the least amount of information on is the bubblehaze. I was interested to know the genetics and flowering time of this "haze" as it seems completely indica dominant. (not much stretch and super fat leaves) I currently have 4 that are 4 weeks into flower that im experimenting with.

Second is the c99 special. Now I know the whole story behind "princess" and c99. I was just wondering if this is a particular pheno of c99 or is it a c99 x grapefruit haze? If it is a cross would that add a little more flowering time? say another week or more on the 56 day c99 flower time?

Third and fourth- lol - I have your blue dream haze and was wondering if its just what everyone calls blue dream or is it a cross of blue dream to a ssh or any other haze. and what would be a safe flowering time for the J1 that pnc gave out in limited quantity.

as you can tell i love my sativa dominants, the only reason im bombarding you with my questions is I dont know what to believe on all these boards anymore but I know that you are god and have the power to put my mind at rest lol. thanks a bunch,
sar sar

PS i miss the pnc.



as far as not having a seperate veg room because of plant counts, i'm pretty sure that mature and immature plants count differently. at least in cali i think you could have 6 blooming and 12 vegging simultaneously. but that's probably irrelevant anyway because the same guidelines limited us to 8 ounces on hand. you're shooting for more like ten to twenty lbs.

and the cali supreme ct. struck down the guidelines last year i think because the only limit allowed in prop 215 is "a reasonable amount", meaning we don't technically have limits but you have to be able to defend the weight your pullin. we are all in more of a grey area than we think.


you use a drain pan like you have to collect runoff and small pump to either a drain or a bigger bucket.

I know its a pain to setup but if you want extra height.

There are other options to think about to get your desired yield. get em round 3 tall feet and top/prune and bend em into some really big bushes

cause bigger cylinders have more surface area in others a bigger canopy. just make sure to gut the inside or larf city

This one is NL5 I topped and bent got 1 1/4 off of. Less then 3' tall but almost 4' wide at finish.

What sucks is only after you finish the run you will actually know what will work best with your particular cut.

If only Captain Hindsight was here


Oh... and let that temp go up a little higher.. you are growing trees!

I will by the time I turn on the CO2 and transplant into the 3gal sp's.. Right now I am letting the humdity hover around 65% and I dropped the temp to 71 to slow down the mites. In a couple days I plan to dunk or spray them with Avid. The day after that I will transplant into the 3 gallon sp's and then increase the temps and co2.
I would like to fit in topping or supercropping in somwhere, but I don't want to top, use Avid, and supercrop all within a 4 day period if it is going to stress the plant too much. What would be a good schedule as far as when to do these things, for instance Avid Wednesday, Transplant Thursday, Top Saturday?? Some are 18" tall now.


if you have 7ft ceilings your all set dude,
I have 7.5ft ceilings, my plants sat roughly two 27gal totes high, I think 26in or so, and although they did hit the ceiling Its easy to tie them down.

Plus side is you can move in the room under the canopy, its incredibly hard to tree room when they are ground level


Donk, another beauty! What kind of pump would I use? Does the pump automatically turn on when there is runoff?

I just double checked the distance from the chain link to the top of the 25gal sp and it was exactly 5ft. I imagine that from the weight of the plant and medium the shelving will dip down at least 1 inch by the time it gets to be that large, but maybe not. I am also going to use less than 25gals of medium, which will save me a minimum of 3 inches. I originally chose the 25gals so I could have the option to use less medium and have a wider pot then if I were to buy a 15 or 20gal sp. So I have at least 5ft and 3 inches of distance before the plant touches the chain link, oh and there are also 1-3 inch spaces, from it not being 100% flush, between the chain link and the ceiling.

I think I can pull off 5x4 trees, but at the end of flower I would only have 12 inches between the bulbs and buds. Is that gonna fry them or will the floor fans and low temps prevent that? I could cut the lights down to 75% power unless that is going to hurt the yield or quality of the flowers significantly.


Good Morning

Some of the plants are browning on the edges, but only on one or two leaves of the whole plant. Tiny holes with yellow around them. Leaves with yellow areas almost looks like I may have broken the leaf or cut it there and it turned yellow, but I have not done any such thing. Some yellow marks also resemble short leaf miner tracks. Researched and at first it seemed to be root aphids, but I did not see any, then maybe thrips, and then I decided on salt build up. Flushed a pot and the runoff measured 1600ppm. It took 3gals to drop it below 50ppm. Immediately after dropping ppms below 50 I added a nute soltion of 550ppm/1.1EC and 5.9ph - same batch that i mixed before (a,b, algen, re, dc, silica) just watered down. I've only flushed 2 plants so far so if any alterations in my flush/feed method need to be made then I will do so right now.

I have not fed or watered the plants since I got them. Only one plant was fed w/700ppm/1.4ec solution. Most of them were damp and seemed kinda heavy. Since I didn't know their dry weight I wanted them to dry as much as possible before their first feeding so that I could weigh them and get a figure to work with.

15 hours ago light was increased to 75% power and raised 10 inches - no negative indicators - except for the ones mentioned but light is not the suspected cause.

After flushing I noticed the top of the medium sank in quite a bit and now the original clone cube is protuding out of the medium somewhat.

Could anyone confirm or contradict my salt build up conclusion, please?

Some of the arsenal, daily or eod weigh-ins, 2 in 1 plants, plants, tops, mite damage, browning on edges, yellow spot w/ tear.









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