13-2-13 / 0-52-34 / injectors

[sedate]

Yep thats what we use and our bud looks like this.... Pearl, Grape Ape, Mango

And yet you described it like this:

Our plants were producing pebble sized fruits encapsulated with leafs and the strains that preformed better were seemed to have a higher caylx to leaf ratio and less density.

Our second run we dialed back the injectors from 160-81-220 to 140-80-203. Our plants preformed much better this round, however there is still to much leaf development in flower, fruits are not as dense as they could be. Could this be because of P in excess of 70 is locking out other elements?

You made it sound horrible! Especially this "pebble sized fruits" - I guess I thought you were all fucked up.

Anyway - all that looks lovely. I like that first cola especially. The rest look solid but that first one looks great.

 

[peoplewish]

And yet you described it like this:



You made it sound horrible! Especially this "pebble sized fruits" - I guess I thought you were all fucked up.

Anyway - all that looks lovely. I like that first cola especially. The rest look solid but that first one looks great.

Mainly the kushes and ogs were having the issue. Too much p and n in flower. Think we figured it out... ;)

 

[peoplewish]

Man @peoplewish our K values are really far from one another in veg. I am wondering if you need that K so high. Maybe it's the bennies keeping my plants happy.

Vegging plants was never the issue. At 140-80 our plants grew faster, with denser And more lush foliage then we have ever seen.

 

[sedate]

Vegging plants was never the issue. At 140-80 our plants grew faster, with denser And more lush foliage then we have ever seen.

peoplewish I'm still totally confused as to how you are getting those numbers? How are you calculating out 140-90-whatever?

I'm trying to understand your calculations..

 

[sedate]

Mainly the kushes and ogs were having the issue. Too much p and n in flower. Think we figured it out... ;)

Ya that stuff looks great. Especially with such vivid coloring and great sugar coat.

Anyway I'd really be surprised if you could improve anything noticeably by jiggering around npk ratios. Fer whatever it is worth, I think I come out to 2.25-5-4...

With bud formation that nice I'd be looking at PGR optimization, co2 injection, canopy temperature optimization... and I still think 1.2 EC is a bit low for Jack's... but heh... you are definitely looking good.

 

[Capulator]

Vegging plants was never the issue. At 140-80 our plants grew faster, with denser And more lush foliage then we have ever seen.

Right but you are having issues with flower. See my earlier post. With my formula all one needs to do is switch the MAP for MKP and cut back on CaNO3 by 20% for bloom. Easy to just swap a stock tank and adjust the dosatron for the CaNo3 isnt it?

Anyway just wanted to share my experience after playing with formulas for a couple years now I have found this one to be extremely easy. To each their own. I could probably use a little more P but I don't want to kill off my microherd, so I stay right below 50ppm (.5 scale)

 

[Capulator]

Also an interesting fact on soil: ppm of P at any given time is roughly 5ppm. That's all the soil will put in to solution. Reading that always made me wonder why folks blast so much P in to their plants via boosters. I am a firm believer that less is more.

 

[peoplewish]

Also an interesting fact on soil: ppm of P at any given time is roughly 5ppm. That's all the soil will put in to solution. Reading that always made me wonder why folks blast so much P in to their plants via boosters. I am a firm believer that less is more.

We were at 160-100-250 for a while, it was crazzzzy high. Our heaviest of feeders loved it, but everything else failed terribly. We lowered it to 140-80 everything looks 200% better and now 149-60 even better. I think below 50 P is key here. Thanks Cap you rock! nice buds btw, what strain??

 

[peoplewish]

What do you use for microbial life cap? We would like to supplement K a bit in flower, can you recommend an organic way of doing this?

 

[sedate]

Also an interesting fact on soil: ppm of P at any given time is roughly 5ppm. That's all the soil will put in to solution. Reading that always made me wonder why folks blast so much P in to their plants via boosters. I am a firm believer that less is more.

5ppm? Seriously can you source that? Not trying to troll you, but it sounds like nonsense. Or at least very out-of-context.. ?

We were at 160-100-250 for a while, it was crazzzzy high. Our heaviest of feeders loved it, but everything else failed terribly. We lowered it to 140-80 everything looks 200% better and now 149-60 even better. I think below 50 P is key here. Thanks Cap you rock! nice buds btw, what strain??

PLEASE tell me where you are getting these numbers. Are you talking calculated ppm out of the dosatrons?

We would like to supplement K a bit in flower, can you recommend an organic way of doing this?

I make sea kelp teas every week or so and juice it with triacontanol. Really puts some *ping* on the final flavor that I tend not to get with straight minerals. Might throw off your N calculations though. Not sure of anything that would give you only K organically..

Do you use any PGR's?

 

[peoplewish]

We want to use tricantinol in flower but and not quite sure how do to it.
They way that we got the numbers. We weighed a standard amount of 13-2-13 and 0-52-34. We then sent it to the water soil and plant lab for a mineral analysis. We scaled those results and adjusted them for our injectors. @sedate

Can you recommend a way to use tricantinol effectively?

 

[Capulator]

@sedate

here you go: http://www.forages.ncsu.edu/assets/soil-fertility-basics-for-certified-crop-advisor.pdf

Scroll down to the phosphorus chapter. The whole thing is worth reading though. In my sentence I meant soil solution not soil itself. Remember the soil has a specific CEC and will release P in to solution slowly... Perhaps that threw you off?

@peoplewish here is shameless plug : www.ogbiowar.com - the nute pack has microbes that will convert unusable K in the substrate to usable form. I use all three packs (nute pack early in veg and root and foliar every week in a compost tea), and not just because it's my product... When I first started using the root pack I was cutting almost a week off veg times. I no longer see phantom deficiencies or toxicities, I think the microbes metabolize excess salts and convert to usable form, and I know they produce vital hormones and acids through metabolic process.

That plant is orange cookies (GSC x Orange juice bud)

Alfalfa is an excellent source of tricontanol. You can also buy it concentrated powder but you need to use polyglycerol to emulsify it.

 

[peoplewish]

@sedate

here you go: http://www.forages.ncsu.edu/assets/soil-fertility-basics-for-certified-crop-advisor.pdf

Scroll down to the phosphorus chapter. The whole thing is worth reading though. In my sentence I meant soil solution not soil itself. Remember the soil has a specific CEC and will release P in to solution slowly... Perhaps that threw you off?

@peoplewish here is shameless plug : www.ogbiowar.com - the nute pack has microbes that will convert unusable K in the substrate to usable form. I use all three packs (nute pack early in veg and root and foliar every week in a compost tea), and not just because it's my product... When I first started using the root pack I was cutting almost a week off veg times. I no longer see phantom deficiencies or toxicities, I think the microbes metabolize excess salts and convert to usable form, and I know they produce vital hormones and acids through metabolic process.

That plant is orange cookies (GSC x Orange juice bud)

Alfalfa is an excellent source of tricontanol. You can also buy it concentrated powder but you need to use polyglycerol to emulsify it.

All good, can you recommend the specific dilution for tricantinol into poly glycerol. What is the dilution into h20? How much should be injected and how often? Everyday? Week? Exe... Thanks cap ordering some nute packs to play with tomorrow.

Edit:

 

[peoplewish]

Going to do TRIA foliar sprays every 14 days at 1ppm until day 28 of flower, any thoughts?

 

[Capulator]

I have no idea about the tria. I use alfalfa. I bought the powder, but never used it.

 

[Herb Forester]

Interesting thread. I too think N<120 during flower should help, and also the lower K overall. In spite of low P concentrations in soil, I've found 40-50ppm into coco often isn't enough once the plants are under HPS lights (somewhat varietal dependent though, and I now add crustacean meal which may effect this).

I can help a little with triacontanol, if you're mixing with calcium chloride for foliar spraying, it's best dissolved with organic solvents rather than polysorbates which are non-ionic. Although there are safety issues to consider which make buying it pre-made easier. The Ca will have 2-3x the effect, and this is how Calcium 25 works. The only other thing I personally add to this mix is soluble seaweed. For fertigation the PEG20 works fine, as the Ca++ mechanism isn't involved the same way (or so I've read).

 

[Fresh Starts]

Interesting thread. I too think N<120 during flower should help, and also the lower K overall. In spite of low P concentrations in soil, I've found 40-50ppm into coco often isn't enough once the plants are under HPS lights (somewhat varietal dependent though, and I now add crustacean meal which may effect this).

I can help a little with triacontanol, if you're mixing with calcium chloride for foliar spraying, it's best dissolved with organic solvents rather than polysorbates which are non-ionic. Although there are safety issues to consider which make buying it pre-made easier. The Ca will have 2-3x the effect, and this is how Calcium 25 works. The only other thing I personally add to this mix is soluble seaweed. For fertigation the PEG20 works fine, as the Ca++ mechanism isn't involved the same way (or so I've read).

So you're saying polysorbate 20 is fine for fertigation but not for foliar sprays? Also good to know about the calcium making triacontanol more effective @Herb Forester

 

[basement bob]

yeah, I'm in tupur which is mostly coco.

I found tupur to heavy in even 5 - 7 gal smart pots.

I want to water MWF. What's my media mix?

 

[peoplewish]

I posted this in the other thread, but ill post it here too.

How to make TRIA spray @ 1ppm in 1 gal.

1. -Weigh .02g Tria on tinfoil and place in small tempered glass container
2. -Add 4ml polysorbate 20
3. -Heat and stir until TRIA is fully dissolved
4. -Add 15ml Distilled h20
5. -Heat and stir until TRIA solution is clear
6. -Add to 5gals of Water
7. -Fill Sprayer
8. -Add a few drops of Palm Olive Dish Soap to act as a sufficant
9. Coat entire plant, including undersides of leaves. Lights must be off for 6 hrs.

 

[sedate]

Hey what the fuck happened to the wikipedia triacontanol entry?

@sedate

here you go: http://www.forages.ncsu.edu/assets/soil-fertility-basics-for-certified-crop-advisor.pdf

Scroll down to the phosphorus chapter. The whole thing is worth reading though. In my sentence I meant soil solution not soil itself. Remember the soil has a specific CEC and will release P in to solution slowly... Perhaps that threw you off?

Hey that's wonderful stuff. I'll read through all of it as soon as I get some homework time.

Are you a mod Cap? Sticky that PDF or make it a site d/l or something.. maybe a little inaccessible for the newb grower tho..

All good, can you recommend the specific dilution for tricantinol into poly glycerol. What is the dilution into h20? How much should be injected and how often? Everyday? Week? Exe... Thanks cap ordering some nute packs to play with tomorrow.

Edit: http://www.mbferts.com/media/How to prepare Triacontanol for a ready to use concentrate and solution.pdf

Ya I've seen the MBFert stuff that would've been were I would have pointed you.

I use the CannaBoost knock-off they make and it is excellent... I've ordered several times from those cats and aside from really unprofessional packaging, I would recommend them.

Uhh... I do have to say that perhaps I'm a conservative chemist, but I really don't like the microwave portion of those instructions. Reservations about microwaving a organic fatty acid like that... I would want to find a different way to emusify it in the first step.. double boiled on a stove or something but I wouldn't use a microwave..

Ummm... I'm also a bit concerned about the giant dosage range they provide. Everything else I've read about TRIA indicates it is a bit like a steriod - the right dose works wonders but too much can cause all sorts of problems. I know a kid who made that solution in the pdf but he got real aggressive with it his plants finished really early and all fucked up. Couldn't tell you how much he was hitting them with tho or if he was fucking around with paclo or anything..

I would go very conservative with TRIA and use it only as a foliar - especially as dialed in as you already are..

FWIW - anyone whose read my posts (Cap esp) will probably note that I am a huge fan of mixing my own shit. From pest control, nutrients, homebuilt light arrays - I'm a fucking massive DIY-er. I repair my own appliances, rebuild my own motors and do all my own mechnical work, install my own car stereos, and build my own computers.
However - when it comes to fucking around hormones and PGR's I have two major reservations
1) PPM of pgr's and hormones is critical for proper response and I don't necessarily trust mail-order chemicals. Unless I am ordering from Sigma-Aldrich or Phytotechlab I just don't trust plastic baggies with white powders in them from international addresses.
and -
2) Quality of dosage information - without a test plant I wouldn't trust the dosage instructions I can get since in terms of PGR's and hormones you can get all sorts of conflicting information. Add to that the uncertainty and delay of plant response - you can drastically fuck up your plants hormonal response and finishing time and not know it for weeks...

So for those reasons I just buy HCO's SnowStorm for my foliar TRIA... the bottle dose is low enough that as a foliar a $40 liter still lasts months and the effects are obvious even at what is surely a low dose.