HeLLMuTT
Thinks of Stinks
Supporter
- 948
- 143
http://i22.invalid.com/albums/b349/MichaelTheHuTT/s4s0ag.gif
G
GBOOST
- 70
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I second previous comments that your prices for components are absurd, maybe if they fell of the back of a truck or u scoured the earth for second hand components. $250 for Co2? Please show me the link to either a bottle, reg and controller, or a burner, bottles, hose and controller for $250? And $500 for pumps and air? Please show us all where you get 2x 1800gph, 1x 1200gph and 2x 750gph pumps, plus 1x hiblow 80 or similar, 12x air stones, hose, and manifold for $500? $2000 maybe lol. Shit we haven't even covered mothers, cloning and veg costs yet.
Its nothin personal sedate, but when you make posts that are clearly a fallacy, your gonna get called on them, underestimating the cost of building an mpb does nothing to help the noobs or less educated around here who are gonna read it and think they can copy peoples results for $6-10k. Tell you what, you spend the time to show us a link to every components needed to build the system and appropriate pricing to justify your statements, and I'll personally send $200 to you for your time to put towards your grow. Best of luck;)
Ozzie
G
GBOOST
- 70
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Oh shit, just seen $250 for nutes? :character0029: So you think for $250 your gonna supply nutes for 10 plants in an mpg from clone to harvest? The first week maybe lol.
Ozzie
Ozzie
A
antimatter
- 417
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Thankyou for saying that
It Would be a shame to see a financially strapped medical patient that depends on this medicine to start buying stuff for a full build and realizing there a few grand short, and unable to even afford food and electricity.
Im not an asshole im just looking out for my fellow growers.
600gph
- 84
- 8
Shoot my first 16k 16 plant mpb cost about 20 - 30k...
Thats everything from security deposit to toilet paper
mc
Thats everything from security deposit to toilet paper
mc
sedate
- 948
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*Yawn* What can I google in under a minute?
What? You think my 400 posts and Nov join date means I'm YoungDro incognito? Like did you read anything I wrote?
Arguing with people who read half a post before there start typing the half-baked reply is so annoying . . .
Hmm. The crux of what you two are saying is this - no?
Like - if you're going to tell me that my prices are 'absurd' - at least point to things that I can't google in less than a minute.
Anyway - lets be precise here - I'm not xeroxing DD's system.
I didn't say I was - if any of you bothered to read what I wrote, the goal was:
Does that make sense? "Reasonably aped" - as in - does the same thing and has the same basic functional design - but adjusted a bit here and there as far as all that dual piping, disconnets, pricey pumps, and minisplits goes.
Furthermore - these idiotic additons of "veg room" and "lease fees" and someone actually posted "toliet paper" - I mean these items have nothing to do with an MPB grow room. These are ancilliary items that were not part of the original constraint -
the equipment required to construct a MPB-based flower room.
What you are trying to do here, antimatter, is to move the goal posts - instead of "build an MPB" now you've sort of tried to make it "build an entire grow operation and run it from beginning to end" - these two are not equivelent statements - even if you try to make them so in a not-so-subtle rhetorical way.
If you have to actually lease seperate grow space - that isn't part of the cost except for you. If one chooses to pay sales tax and $500 for a 1000w HPS at the mom-and-pop hydrostore instead of any of the dozen places selling them for <$300/system - then that is only part of the cost for you. If you feel like you need to xerox DD's every connector and part or the system is "not an MPB" (talk about a quixotic position), then that is only part of the cost - for you.
Here's my favorite:
Haha. What's the going interstate tax rate on the internet there smart-guy?
:rofl
But then you'll move the goal posts.
You'll say "but that item won't work" - "you have to use this one" - or "that's a price only in Denver" or some other argument.
And it assumes I'd tell you who I am.
So this is pretty smarmy and ridiculous.
On the anemic examples:
I mean - if you don't know any better than to just throw money at the problem and buy a minisplit then your understanding of HVAC is the only joke here.
Two of these would be sufficient for the heat load off a 10-lamp system -
http://www.google.com/products/cata...7zN5TUiwT87-TlDg&sa=title&ved=0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p
Which leaves us $200 for a dehuey on those winter nights when the A/C just wouldn't be prudent -
http://www.google.com/products/cata...WNNJ7ijATtxZjjDg&sa=title&ved=0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p
That's exactly $1k, no?
Yea if I was actively venting the room I'd go way larger for sure - but since the air is all recirculated - and we're keeping temps nice and low - I'd strap something smallish (for the room anyway) to the ceiling and be done with it -
So I'm 10% under? Good enough.
Clearly, that isn't the case. So that's three strikes for you antimatter.
Why is the onus on me anyway when your grammer-less posts ring up at all of 40 words or so?
Why don't you prove why you have to spend more instead of just telling me I'm wrong and posting "lol" alot?
WTF are you talking about?
You don't need all of that to riff this system.
I mean these kinds of statements highlight nothing so much as your inability to engineer your way out of paper bag.
A high-flow, heavily aerated 300 gallons or so does *not* take $2000 in pumps and anyone that's ever worked with aquariums or looked carefully at the limits of oxygen solubility in water knows that.
If you want to overbuy and stock up on fancy Hiblow (which are made for septic systems and hospitals, overkill, BTW) or Alita pumps and spend three or four times the money as you might on Hydrofarm ActiveAqua pumps and Danner Pondmasters' - then that is part of the cost for you GBOOST.
Like - all you've really managed to convey is that you did a good job copying someone elses' work, xeroxing a shopping list, and have more dollars than sense.
Not sure I'd point that out to everyone.
One or two of these, depending on bucket layout and capacity:
http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=6351
And one or two of these, again, depending on layout and total system capacity:
That's only $350 - $550.
Man - I honestly can say I'm still not tired of being right.
The only person you two are looking out for is the owner of the corner hydroshop.
The real shame is telling people the only way to build this system is to do it at a 100% premium because you two don't know how to look at a system, figure out what it does and how - and how to iterate on that design for your own needs.
Bottomline:
$10K (or $9K!) is more than sufficient for constructing functionally equivalent 10-lamp MPB flower room.
With all the goodies.
:anim_19:
antimatter said:
What? You think my 400 posts and Nov join date means I'm YoungDro incognito? Like did you read anything I wrote?
Arguing with people who read half a post before there start typing the half-baked reply is so annoying . . .
Hmm. The crux of what you two are saying is this - no?
GBOOST said:
Like - if you're going to tell me that my prices are 'absurd' - at least point to things that I can't google in less than a minute.
Anyway - lets be precise here - I'm not xeroxing DD's system.
I didn't say I was - if any of you bothered to read what I wrote, the goal was:
sedate said:
Does that make sense? "Reasonably aped" - as in - does the same thing and has the same basic functional design - but adjusted a bit here and there as far as all that dual piping, disconnets, pricey pumps, and minisplits goes.
antimatter said:
GBOOST said:
600gph said:
Furthermore - these idiotic additons of "veg room" and "lease fees" and someone actually posted "toliet paper" - I mean these items have nothing to do with an MPB grow room. These are ancilliary items that were not part of the original constraint -
the equipment required to construct a MPB-based flower room.
What you are trying to do here, antimatter, is to move the goal posts - instead of "build an MPB" now you've sort of tried to make it "build an entire grow operation and run it from beginning to end" - these two are not equivelent statements - even if you try to make them so in a not-so-subtle rhetorical way.
If you have to actually lease seperate grow space - that isn't part of the cost except for you. If one chooses to pay sales tax and $500 for a 1000w HPS at the mom-and-pop hydrostore instead of any of the dozen places selling them for <$300/system - then that is only part of the cost for you. If you feel like you need to xerox DD's every connector and part or the system is "not an MPB" (talk about a quixotic position), then that is only part of the cost - for you.
Here's my favorite:
antimatter said:
Haha. What's the going interstate tax rate on the internet there smart-guy?
:rofl
GBOOST said:
But then you'll move the goal posts.
You'll say "but that item won't work" - "you have to use this one" - or "that's a price only in Denver" or some other argument.
And it assumes I'd tell you who I am.
So this is pretty smarmy and ridiculous.
On the anemic examples:
antimatter said:
I mean - if you don't know any better than to just throw money at the problem and buy a minisplit then your understanding of HVAC is the only joke here.
Two of these would be sufficient for the heat load off a 10-lamp system -
http://www.google.com/products/cata...7zN5TUiwT87-TlDg&sa=title&ved=0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p
Which leaves us $200 for a dehuey on those winter nights when the A/C just wouldn't be prudent -
http://www.google.com/products/cata...WNNJ7ijATtxZjjDg&sa=title&ved=0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p
That's exactly $1k, no?
antimatter said:
Yea if I was actively venting the room I'd go way larger for sure - but since the air is all recirculated - and we're keeping temps nice and low - I'd strap something smallish (for the room anyway) to the ceiling and be done with it -
antimatter said:
So I'm 10% under? Good enough.
antimatter said:
Clearly, that isn't the case. So that's three strikes for you antimatter.
Why is the onus on me anyway when your grammer-less posts ring up at all of 40 words or so?
Why don't you prove why you have to spend more instead of just telling me I'm wrong and posting "lol" alot?
GBOOST said:
WTF are you talking about?
You don't need all of that to riff this system.
I mean these kinds of statements highlight nothing so much as your inability to engineer your way out of paper bag.
A high-flow, heavily aerated 300 gallons or so does *not* take $2000 in pumps and anyone that's ever worked with aquariums or looked carefully at the limits of oxygen solubility in water knows that.
If you want to overbuy and stock up on fancy Hiblow (which are made for septic systems and hospitals, overkill, BTW) or Alita pumps and spend three or four times the money as you might on Hydrofarm ActiveAqua pumps and Danner Pondmasters' - then that is part of the cost for you GBOOST.
Like - all you've really managed to convey is that you did a good job copying someone elses' work, xeroxing a shopping list, and have more dollars than sense.
Not sure I'd point that out to everyone.
One or two of these, depending on bucket layout and capacity:
http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=6351
And one or two of these, again, depending on layout and total system capacity:
That's only $350 - $550.
Man - I honestly can say I'm still not tired of being right.
GBOOST said:
antimatter said:
The only person you two are looking out for is the owner of the corner hydroshop.
The real shame is telling people the only way to build this system is to do it at a 100% premium because you two don't know how to look at a system, figure out what it does and how - and how to iterate on that design for your own needs.
Bottomline:
$10K (or $9K!) is more than sufficient for constructing functionally equivalent 10-lamp MPB flower room.
With all the goodies.
:anim_19:
IPlay4Keepz
- 454
- 63
I have to agree with Sedate... not including lease, electricity, living expenses, and genetics... my 11 lamp 12 bucket Undercurrent bloom room didnt cost me over 10k. I installed the mini split and did all the electrical on my own so i saved quite a bit on labor costs. But i promise you that if you go with mag ballasts and vertical lighting (no reflectors) with a 36,000btu mini split its quite possible. Here is my first vertical bucket grow:
the learning curve is a mofo when tryin on something this big and if it wasnt for ppl like Jack and a few others helping me along... my first vertical rcdwc grow wouldnt be so problem free right now. And i'll be more than happy to give sources for every integral part of this grow which if u check r all top of the line. And u might start whining how the UC is not an MPB, but i paid $1700 for mine and its doubtful that u cant build an MPB system for the same price. I've been doing this too long for ppl to tell me what i can and cannot do -Keepz
the learning curve is a mofo when tryin on something this big and if it wasnt for ppl like Jack and a few others helping me along... my first vertical rcdwc grow wouldnt be so problem free right now. And i'll be more than happy to give sources for every integral part of this grow which if u check r all top of the line. And u might start whining how the UC is not an MPB, but i paid $1700 for mine and its doubtful that u cant build an MPB system for the same price. I've been doing this too long for ppl to tell me what i can and cannot do -Keepz
A
antimatter
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Sedate your obviously mad and a good friend of youngdro in Colorado, now go build your 10k internet order system.
sedate
- 948
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I don't know YoungDro.
I think if Young "I wouldn't be suprised if I got 40 pounds my first run" Dro tried what I outlined above, he'd spend two years or so figuring it all out.
So I'm not defending him - I'm defending myself and my own ideas - which you and GBOOST attacked because - apparently - you two spent more.
Good for you.
You know antimatter, I don't usually do this - but here I actually get to claim complete and total victory.
I win the argument.
You have no counter-argument. You have no counter-position.
You've managed another post less than the length of tweet which contains nothing but a limp ad hominem attack.
I've demonstrated that you are completely wrong and you have *nothing* to say.
Before Helmutt knew you'd get owned, he outlined it nicely for us:
http://i22.invalid.com/albums/b349/MichaelTheHuTT/s4s0ag.gif
How did you put it?
Sorry Bro. You fail.
sedate
- 948
- 63
Keepz said:
The UC and the MPB are virtually identical systems.
The UC is just simplified for commerical production and distribution.
I actually wondered whether the UC was the MPB that DD's apparently sold to whoever when this forum first popped up last year.
The functional designs of these systems - what they do and how they do it - are very, very similar.
Both systems are high-flow, heavily aerated DWC systems.
Honestly, to do what DD's system does really doesn't require all the piping and disconnects and pumps that DD has.
I mean - the system clearly works for him - but as I look at it, I would do very many things - at least around the bucket design and pump applications - very differently.
The system is absolutely open to iteration and simplification - just as any other system is - wayy too many other incredible RDWC systems out there to suggest other design choices are not and could not be just as valid or effective.
Fluid dynamics just aren't that complicated.
Keepz said:
Oh you could absolutely make the system *far more* expensive.
Like I said in my original post, digital ballasts, a 6-ton minisplit, and Hiblow or Alita pumps would be awesome.
I'd much rather have a CAN-fan and filter than a Grow-Bright, or an Alita pump over a Hydrofarm. Or a Galaxy Digital over a HarvestPro ballast.
But - at the end of the day - I'd rather have that extra $5 or $6k.
Keepz said:
:rock
+1!
Damn skippy.
A
antimatter
- 417
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How are those shipping costs treating you on your internet orders my friend? Has your cheap acs died on you yet and fried all your girls? Whats it like running bottled Co2 without any controllers? Whats it like having your entire house reak of weed with your little baby carbon-filter and fan? Have you gotten root rot yet? Hows your night cycle treating you with no dehumidifiers running because your ac isn't running at night mmm budrot
Theres no room for going half ass on a build.
Seriously how is it that electricity and nutrient costs and a veg room not factor into a grow operation build? Can you not understand that if someone only has only so much to spend then they budget the entire grow for that money because there is no pay day in between ?
Theres no room for going half ass on a build.
Seriously how is it that electricity and nutrient costs and a veg room not factor into a grow operation build? Can you not understand that if someone only has only so much to spend then they budget the entire grow for that money because there is no pay day in between ?
L
Lost
- 2,969
- 38
My e-penis is HUGE!!!
heheheh :)
heheheh :)
A
antimatter
- 417
- 18
This entire thread is a large falic object :love0018:
M
mrdizzle
- 1,895
- 48
seriously guys? Im sure if you all checked out craigslist you would see that you, without a doubt in my mind, could build a 10k room for 10k, probably cheaper. im sure sedate is talking about used equipment
L
Lost
- 2,969
- 38
If you don't already own half of the gear should you really be attempting this type of grow?
A
antimatter
- 417
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Were talking about new equipment, if sedate is talking about used then you can spend way less.
A
antimatter
- 417
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Personally I already own all the equipment minus the co2 part and mpbs but if I had nothing at all and was to build a sealed 10k room new id easily be spending over $1500 per light for the first run and thats from a wholesale hydroshop with good prices, its all the small shit that adds up and puts you over.
IPlay4Keepz
- 454
- 63
I bought most my equipment brand spankin new... i just opted to buy switchable mag ballasts that cost me $90 delivered and threw on $63 Horti Super HPS and cheap ass plantmax bulbs. And to be honest it seems that the bigger buds are the ones nearest the cheap ass bulbs LOL I didnt buy a single thing used except the 50lb CO2 tank and the commercial dehuy, everything else brand new and i have the receipts to prove it. Like i said b4 i sourced only the best and would be willing to show u better than i can tell u. BTW my piece of shit Air-Con with toshiba compressor seems to be running just fine non-stop -Keepz
IPlay4Keepz
- 454
- 63
I know this post isnt directed towards me since i have no reason to lie and have the photos to prove it. All i see when i walk in my room are uber happy ladies welcoming me with outstretched arms. I might not hit a gram per watt like these vertical heavyweights around here, but this is my first run and i'm a fast learner. I guess we'll c in 2 weeks what my 10k bought me. -Keepz
sedate
- 948
- 63
Lost said:
No Lost. It doesn't have anything to do with that.
It has everything to do with the fact that I post a thoughtful list of equipment, backed up by links when challenged, and in return I get a limp ad hominem post less than the length of a Sarah Palin tweet.
mrdizzle said:
No, no. I mean new stuff.
Not fancy equipment by anymeans - no Alita pumps or $100 worth of hydro disconnects for every bucket or digital ballasts and a big effin window unit(s) instead of a minisplit - but this is so doable. It would work for under 10k. Way under. I think I could bring it home for between 8 and 9 totally fucking automated co2'd and everything.
And no, quit trying antimatter - that doesn't include the totality of every other aspect of the grow nor was it ever supposed to.
Cultivate Hydroponics & Organics in Denver () and Big Tomato Hydroponics in Aurora () would be good for alot of the stuff (lights, bucketslids and shit, nutes) - Amazon.com for the chiller - and BestBuy or a specialty internet retailer for the A/C.
Home Depot for all the stuff you get at Home Depot.
I do presume all work done by the grower. I mean I would never pay anyone to do anything technical for me.
Honestly dizzle - lotsa peepz want 'new' prices on Craigslist too - I've had pretty poor luck there. Ebay seems to be a bit better here . . .
Keepz said:
I mean exactly. You don't need the top-tier A++ equipment list that DD provides - nor do you need to plumb every bucket the way he does.
I think UC really offers alot of insight here.
The options here are 'effin endless.
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