Any idea what is wrong with my plants?

[Aqua Man]

runoff doesnt mean over watering. Need a bit of patience in potting soil but thats my favorite feature. I can equal yield with so much less water and nutes.

Thats what I'm saying runoff happens when the media is 100% saturated. The amount of drainage directly affect the o2 exchange capacity.

Over watering is watering to often in a sense or better described as keeping thw media to saturated and that causes lack of gas exchange and low o2 which is what over watering actually is... lack of o2

 

[Mr.GreenthumbOG]

I cut the bastards off if the roots are tight.
pretty cheap.
Mr.G

 

[Aqua Man]

That’s the beautiful thing about growing. Grow in a hardware bucket. Traditional plastic pots. Whatever.
personally I use fabric. Almost Impossible to overwater. Can control airflow through the root zone better. Only negative is transplanting out of them.
Mr. G

Much much better gas exchange IMO I agree.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I cut the bastards off if the roots are tight.
pretty cheap.
Mr.G

lol. I have ised the same nursery pots for 7 years.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Much much better gas exchange IMO I agree.

Its just a preference thing. Cloth pots were made for outside tree transplants to be able to break through and root into the ground.

I have not seen any in a production food or flower greenhouse or anywhere but weed forums.

And i think the benefit of “air pruning” is completely made up.

 

[Mr.GreenthumbOG]

Plastic posts. Used them for years. Still use sometimes. You could grow weed in my left boot if you wanted to.
Commercial facilities use them as they are reusable, super durable, easy to clean, easy to stack, and cheaper
Air pruning is a thing, plants that are in fabric pots are less prone to becoming root bound. Just my experience

Mr.G

 

[MIMedGrower]

Plastic posts. Used them for years. Still use sometimes. You could grow weed in my left boot if you wanted to.
Commercial facilities use them as they are reusable, super durable, easy to clean, easy to stack, and cheaper
Air pruning is a thing, plants that are in fabric pots are less prone to becoming root bound. Just my experience

Mr.G

I want to try growing in this “left boot” you speak of.

does the toe cheese aid in micro life propagation?

 

[Flexnerb]

Sure it does... only need to flush through if to much is added... not near as common with organics but yes possible... but thats just grower error.

runoff doesnt mean over watering. Need a bit of patience in potting soil but thats my favorite feature. I can equal yield with so much less water and nutes.

I got a dumb ? If i fill my 35 gal res with RO do i have to areate to keep the o2 in the water? Its covered will i still lose 02 from water if i dont move it? I quit areating cuase my ph woukd go up to almost 8. Thought it was getting too much co2 in there....or was co2 being pushed out and the ph went up?

P.s. i fucking hate my water

 

[Aqua Man]

I got a dumb ? If i fill my 35 gal res with RO do i have to areate to keep the o2 in the water? Its covered will i still lose 02 from water if i dont move it? I quit areating cuase my ph woukd go up to almost 8. Thought it was getting too much co2 in there....or was co2 being pushed out and the ph went up?

P.s. i fucking hate my water

RO with nutrients? What type of system?

No real need to aerate unless you using bacteria or for RDWC.

There are alot of factors at play here. Alkalinity mainly. The source of Alkalinity and the acid used to adjust ph.

 

[Mr.GreenthumbOG]

Hahaha. Microbial left boot.
saw this photo online. Guess this grower used everything available.

 

[Flexnerb]

RO with nutrients? What type of system?

No real need to aerate unless you using bacteria or for RDWC.

There are alot of factors at play here. Alkalinity mainly. The source of Alkalinity and the acid used to adjust ph.

I fill it with water, take what i need when i need it. The trash can (clean amd sani'd every refill) can sit for a week with no areation.. its straight RO water that is staged in a cold room water is 62 f can sit for a week to week and a half with no nutes i it...if anything other than RO was in there id areate for sure...i just wanted to make sure 02 wont expell from the water. It is covered and barely gets moved...oh and im in soil

 

[Growgerth24]

You have many issues here, but I am going to address the most glaring one. I know you are limited it space, but 2 45 w fluorescents is not going to do the trick, not even close- at least a 315 w cmh at the very minimum. Furthermore in low light scenarios like this, imbalances and overnuting is more of a problem than deficiencies.

Your next issue- ph of water doesnt matter- in fact peat based mediums want to go acidic, it doesn't matter how high the PH of your water is- in fact I have to add dolomite lime to my peat based medium so it doesnt sink on me halfway in to flower.

Lastly, even though your RH is pretty low, so is your temp- so it really doesnt matter. Conversely if you have high RH, its not that big of a deal if your temps are a little higher (assuming no mold or PM risk) - this is because of something called Vapor Pressure Deficit- there are charts you can find on google.

 

[Aqua Man]

I fill it with water, take what i need when i need it. The trash can (clean amd sani'd every refill) can sit for a week with no areation.. its straight RO water that is staged in a cold room water is 62 f can sit for a week to week and a half with no nutes i it...if anything other than RO was in there id areate for sure...i just wanted to make sure 02 wont expell from the water. It is covered and barely gets moved...oh and im in soil

Yeah I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Aqua Man]

You have many issues here, but I am going to address the most glaring one. I know you are limited it space, but 2 45 w fluorescents is not going to do the trick, not even close- at least a 315 w cmh at the very minimum. Furthermore in low light scenarios like this, imbalances and overnuting is more of a problem than deficiencies.

Your next issue- ph of water doesnt matter- in fact peat based mediums want to go acidic, it doesn't matter how high the PH of your water is- in fact I have to add dolomite lime to my peat based medium so it doesnt sink on me halfway in to flower.

Lastly, even though your RH is pretty low, so is your temp- so it really doesnt matter. Conversely if you have high RH, its not that big of a deal if your temps are a little higher (assuming no mold or PM risk) - this is because of something called Vapor Pressure Deficit- there are charts you can find on google.

They were light burned... talking about seedlings and early veg there is no need to have that much light. Flower is a different story.

I agree if using a properly amended soil there is no real need to ph the feed withing reason like if using silica. Of your finding your ph is dropping in mod flower its either a poorly amended soil but more like a grower error of over feeding. Almost all peat based media we buy are more than adequately amended with lime etc to balance ph.

You never want to use VPD charts off the internet and always want to calculate VPD based on your conditions and especially taking leaf temp into account... this is the main reason people have issues when using VPD.

Temps are absolutely important and should be addressed first and foremost. Then the humidity adjust to reach a KPA that is ideal for the growth stage. Lower temps affect not only growth rates but also nutrient uptake.

 

[Growgerth24]

Light burned? He is running literally 90 total watts of fluorescent lighting. He is in going on a 3 weeks, almost a month of the plants being alive. My 2 ft fluorescents panel is exactly 90 watts. If I had 3 plants under for three weeks, they would be needing a new light- especially with no side lighting from other lights.- and I only keep then 2 to 3 inches away-no ill effects

Besides did he say he planned on blooming under different lights? I might of missed that.

My CMH- abt 15 inches
My 720ROIs- abt 14 inches
My 1000w raptor-abt 12 inches
Never had one plant light burn on me

In fact the only time I have ever seen a light burn on a plant under a fluorscent? When it grew into the bulb and was touching.

I am not getting your point about VPD. I understand too low of temps locks out things like phosphorous, or too low humidity messes with K uptake. Or running high temps because you have high humidity can be a bad idea late in flower because of molds and what not-or that vegging plants root better over 55 RH-The point I was trying to make is if your temps are a little higher, you can get away with a little higher humidity (early enough in 12/12) and in the case if this gentlemen, being a little lower in humidity wont kill him since his temps are so low.

VPD charts seem pretty damn consistent btw- i haven't found too much variation.

And measuring true leaf temp requires instruments this gentleman probably doesn't have from my understanding.

 

[Aqua Man]

Light burned? He is running literally 90 total watts of fluorescent lighting. He is in going on a 3 weeks, almost a month of the plants being alive. My 2 ft fluorescents panel is exactly 90 watts. If I had 3 plants under for three weeks, they would be needing a new light- especially with no side lighting from other lights.- and I only keep then 2 to 3 inches away-no ill effects

Besides did he say he planned on blooming under different lights? I might of missed that.

My CMH- abt 15 inches
My 720ROIs- abt 14 inches
My 1000w raptor-abt 12 inches
Never had one plant light burn on me

In fact the only time I have ever seen a light burn on a plant under a fluorscent? When it grew into the bulb and was touching.

I am not getting your point about VPD. I understand too low of temps locks out things like phosphorous, or too low humidity messes with K uptake. Or running high temps because you have high humidity can be a bad idea late in flower because of molds and what not-or that vegging plants root better over 55 RH-The point I was trying to make is if your temps are a little higher, you can get away with a little higher humidity (early enough in 12/12) and in the case if this gentlemen, being a little lower in humidity wont kill him since his temps are so low.

VPD charts seem pretty damn consistent btw- i haven't found too much variation.

And measuring true leaf temp requires instruments this gentleman probably doesn't have from my understanding.

I dont know what to tell ya they were light burned... the lights were to close... its not just wattage.

And IR temp gun is like . No fancy instruments and more ppl have them than most think.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JS9SN9W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_t1_csN8FbJM8V86W

If you don't understand what I mean about VPD and leaf temp or the KPA for stage of growth, have a read here.

VPD (vapor pressure deficit)

Ok i was gonna sit down and write out a whole article but i have been lazy so instead instead I'm going to copy paste because im lazy. This is not my work so let start. You may find this very long but its worth the read. Some may want to skip ahead. I have added here and there to what i feel is...

www.thcfarmer.com

If you want an example of how much it changes based on leaf temps i can give you examples.

Say 80f 60% leaf temps of 78 (typical under HID) gives a kpa of 1.18 suitable over all and best for early to mid flower.

Say 80f 60% leaf temp of 72 (typical of led with lots of airflow) gives a kpa of 0.58. Only really suitable for clones and seedlings.

It makes a lot more difference than you think and the ppl who are seeing mold issues and saying VPD caused mold etc. Are pretty much exactly caused by assumed leaf temps and running RH way to high based off a chart that not specific to thier grow.

I dont know what to say..... when you see light burn or calcium deficiency it is what it is. A plant thats stressed cannot tolerate as much light. I have had plants up to 85k lux in flower... but there are reasons for it... not every grow or every plant is the same. Light burn is light burn... maybe you can enlighten me as to what caused the discoloration? If not light burn?

 

[sandc4fun]

Just to clarify... we had LED lights in there as well, but pulled them yesterday due to the comments. They were probably too close.

We have more CFL's coming in the next day or so which should put us at closer to 300 watts total.

Thank you to all for sharing your thoughts. While you can read a ton, having people talk about their experiences really help.

I will post more pictures tomorrow.

 

[Ryboburton]

you can see the perlite (white stuff in soil), it has discoloured and even yellowed, that means the soil was staying wet for to long, watering too much, you can see the damage in a couple leaves from it, they won’t recover,
everything will be fine, just let grow and follow a wet/dry cycle..
as it dries the roots grow in search of food, roots grow = plant grows

Yep. Absolutely. Let them dry out. Took me so long to learn. A little water can go a long way

 

[Flexnerb]

Okay, will go take a pic, but.... try not to laugh, it is a bit embarrassing! It is our first grow... so complete newbies here and without a great set-up.

Here's the set-up:

Set-up in a closet
2 boxes stacked together with reflective surface on bottom sides and foil on top sides.
Fan added to top of box (inset) (green cardboard, directing flow down)
2 CFL lamps and a very small LED - 4 strip
Cellophane on top to try and keep humidity in.

We were actually worried the lights weren't enough. So we have 2 three way socket(s) and different bulbs coming early next week, a couple of 2700K and a couple of 6500K. The ones in there are currently 40 or 45 watt 5500K (I think).

We have been able to keep the temperature in 72-77, humidity has been a problem (20-30%), so we bought a small humidifier to go in the box. Too small to make any difference.

Im wondering if this isnt a K def brought on by too much ammonium in the feed..im almost certain. You do gave a K def from the looks of it....NH4+ antogonizing/creating a K def?

Bottom pic top plant im thinking is a K def....do you or did you see any little yellow spots on leaves before all this?

 

[sandc4fun]

Here are today's pictures and stat's.
Large - Grew 1/2", so 7" tall, no water today as it is still moist as expected from yesterday's watering.
Stubby (no more) - Also grew 1/2" making it 8" tall. Super light pot, so watered and got a little run off. PH 6.5 on the run off.
Back Med - Also grew 1/2" so now it is 8 1/2". Also was super light in the pot, so watered and again got a little run off. PH 6.5 on the small amount of run off.

Sheesh, takes serious time to dry a pot out. Now that we know what and what not to day hopefully we don't encounter this issue (over watering again). GNick55 - One thing at a time! lol

As to spots on the leaves, no not really. The discoloration has all started from the edges and tips. The new leaves are looking better, but of course we are still holding our breath.