Calling Out The Organic Growing Machines

oldskol4evr · Oct 13, 2017

well @Ecompost best i could do with what i got is 5 tsp of bio media pro in a old miricle grow sprayer,i watered the shit out that clay ,just hope it distributed proper,im gonna put 4lbs of gypsum on it today,expecting rain sunday ,so if all goes well it will get disolved right were it needs to be,lmao,im not shitting you about this clay damn near had to swing a pick into it were i could dig a shovel into it,,i figure for what they are calling garden soil and the headache it has provided me with,,i will just make something of what i got,which means a lot of sifting rocks out and breaking up clay,,bright side is the clay is a good thing in the 3 part structure of a good soil base,lmao,,this shit for sure makes me feel like im out of retirement and back on the job,lmao

Farmer P · Oct 13, 2017

Top nug on top pic is cool. Love the christmas tree shape.

Organikz · Oct 13, 2017

oldskol4evr said:
well @Ecompost best i could do with what i got is 5 tsp of bio media pro in a old miricle grow sprayer,i watered the shit out that clay ,just hope it distributed proper,im gonna put 4lbs of gypsum on it today,expecting rain sunday ,so if all goes well it will get disolved right were it needs to be,lmao,im not shitting you about this clay damn near had to swing a pick into it were i could dig a shovel into it,,i figure for what they are calling garden soil and the headache it has provided me with,,i will just make something of what i got,which means a lot of sifting rocks out and breaking up clay,,bright side is the clay is a good thing in the 3 part structure of a good soil base,lmao,,this shit for sure makes me feel like im out of retirement and back on the job,lmao

Use either aloe or soap nut tea. It aerates and loosens clay. It also opens direct cellular uptake pathways.

Reading more it basically creates pores on cellular membrane. Direct uptake pathways that my MBP uses to feed the plants.

Finally understanding how the peptides enter blew my mind....

Organikz · Oct 14, 2017

Wake up and smell the terpenoids gents. Friendly IPM reminder.

Another fun fact about saponin. It also opens cellular pathways and contains terpenes. Do these actually translate...idk. increases in terpenoids has been reported. I need to confirm that.

Ecompost · Oct 14, 2017

oldskol4evr said:
well @Ecompost best i could do with what i got is 5 tsp of bio media pro in a old miricle grow sprayer,i watered the shit out that clay ,just hope it distributed proper,im gonna put 4lbs of gypsum on it today,expecting rain sunday ,so if all goes well it will get disolved right were it needs to be,lmao,im not shitting you about this clay damn near had to swing a pick into it were i could dig a shovel into it,,i figure for what they are calling garden soil and the headache it has provided me with,,i will just make something of what i got,which means a lot of sifting rocks out and breaking up clay,,bright side is the clay is a good thing in the 3 part structure of a good soil base,lmao,,this shit for sure makes me feel like im out of retirement and back on the job,lmao

Have you had some of it out and done a basic soil type test mate?
The one where you take the soil from 2-10 inches and put it in a glass, then take a measure to mark the layers as they settle, sand first, then silt, then clays, work out the percentage of parts? This will better guide your decisions on what to add. you might be surprised mate. my land here is like granite in the sun, but its not clay, rather silt that is my major problem, I have sand too, but this is stratified by flooding and then baking over history before i got here. you cant put a full size pick in it more than an inch in the high sun, even with a full king kong swing. the land here eats tools.
iI you have not done this type test mate doi it now, lots of guides on youtube for this, also so a slake test, so drop an aggregate sample of your soil in water but in to a net so it cant sink to the bottom. you need an aggregate so a lump a small net, colander will work over a bowl if you aint got anything else, but i use a small net I took from a broken child toy, its literally a small white plastic basket which holds the lump, but the particles can pass freely as they break off, sinking to the bottom or clouding the water column .
Anyway drop the lump in to the water and see how it holds up. You want it to stay together if possible. if its breaking away, this is a lack of biology and healthy soil proteins therein, more organics and more biology is the answer. As the water hits the aggregate water will rush in to the pore spaces, and if the soil has weak structure it will almost explode. you really want it to hold together mate, the more that break off, the less healthy your soil is.

if you are going to add sand, may be look at paramagentic sands like greensand in order to use the natural forces and energy therein to boost the disruption of the clay particles. Be aware, clays tend to compact after heavy construction, tillage and so on. it is this practice which destroys soil proteins and so biology, but they also compact due to radical salt overloading the negative clay surface charge of clays in your part of the world and most of the rest of planet earth too.

Adding cations to compacted clays is likely to further compound the nature of compaction, this is often why we see land treated with liming practice as a solution to pH as eventually having compacted salt layers in the profile and so rather than add + or - things, its a good idea to work on introductions of biology and always see biology as the start and end of all soil. more gram negative bacteria can help you scavenge the radical ions from the clays surface and so restore clays general like for like particle charge, which in healthy systems allows small gaps in all clays no matter if we imiagine they are one lump for all. Good idea is work a penetrometer in to the profile to find the stick points,. using injection, or spiking techniques, lace the profile at this level with inoculation and bio stims. you can use N, P and ca dry nutrients. the heat energy from P helps again to break up clays, Ca as above, and N provides some grease if you will, but first thing is know your sand before you embark on this. non coated versus coated.

its much easier to add BBM and Biology and forget about all of this hassle IMO.

BBM renders soil excess cations in to more harmless states, or in fact chelates them to make them more readily plant available and less likely to bind. it introduces high volumes of Oxygen, heat and the Bio Stims required. yes its expansive, but its more long term, its the total cost of adding gypsum versus the long terms solutions offered by BBM.

I do get it, we have to work with what we have, no passing judgment, i am not fit mate and always support your choices. This is just data :-)
Clays can be resorted using Bio Balance Media, Humic Acids, Gypsum, but we might note, Ca++ is a cation, so as to the long term sustainability of gypsum I am not sure, I know it works in the short term. i havent got any l;onger term studies, but it is true calcium is a dominant ion and so it can kick off more sticky cation elements such as Sodium and magnesium and so on. it also burns higher rates of N during its decomposition that BBM mate.

Ecompost · Oct 14, 2017

tifosi said:
Chopping my first organic outdoor plant today

awesome work brother, good vibes in your spot, the plant shows :-)

oldskol4evr · Oct 14, 2017

Organikz said:
Wake up and smell the terpenoids gents. Friendly IPM reminder.

Another fun fact about saponin. It also opens cellular pathways and contains terpenes. Do these actually translate...idk. increases in terpenoids has been reported. I need to confirm that.

looking great

Ecompost · Oct 14, 2017

Organikz said:
Wake up and smell the terpenoids gents. Friendly IPM reminder.

Another fun fact about saponin. It also opens cellular pathways and contains terpenes. Do these actually translate...idk. increases in terpenoids has been reported. I need to confirm that.

You might be able to get this effect by shouting at your plant, and by ripping bits of leaves off when you walk past. i joke, nice work.
Terps are related to plant defense. Doing something as simple as adding Mycos at the germination or transplant stage can offer this type of frosty protection by increasing the plants innate systemic response. Chitin is just one of the reasons this happens. It is seen by a plant, which has no Chitin, as a foreign object. it is a component of insect saliva too, plants use its presence to raise the shields. terps are a simple yet highly effective shield, a way of making the plant less palatable or complex to certain insects or other. Lucky for us, we benefit from a certain manipulation of this plant system, but beware its power. You might know a story of drought in Africa and the one surviving and thriving tree species, and next to it, a pile of dead and fat herbivores, killed by eating the high tannin leaves of said tree, dead from starvation on stomachs full of indigestible tree leaves. it is thought the trees that couldn't make super toxic levels of defense, shared the data of impending consumption via interconnected highways of fungal networks, which enabled the Acacia to get ready. the Kudu never stood a chance :-)

Ecompost · Oct 14, 2017

Organikz said:
@Ecompost I agree that these plants are just beautiful. They are ornamental almost. This Afghan kush is just so elegant looking. And this sativa....damn! I think natural form is especially beautiful.

thats a beauty,

oldskol4evr · Oct 14, 2017

Ecompost said:
Have you had some of it out and done a basic soil type test mate?
The one where you take the soil from 2-10 inches and put it in a glass, then take a measure to mark the layers as they settle, sand first, then silt, then clays, work out the percentage of parts? This will better guide your decisions on what to add. you might be surprised mate. my land here is like granite in the sun, but its not clay, rather silt that is my major problem, I have sand too, but this is stratified by flooding and then baking over history before i got here. you cant put a full size pick in it more than an inch in the high sun, even with a full king kong swing. the land here eats tools.
iI you have not done this type test mate doi it now, lots of guides on youtube for this, also so a slake test, so drop an aggregate sample of your soil in water but in to a net so it cant sink to the bottom. you need an aggregate so a lump a small net, colander will work over a bowl if you aint got anything else, but i use a small net I took from a broken child toy, its literally a small white plastic basket which holds the lump, but the particles can pass freely as they break off, sinking to the bottom or clouding the water column .
Anyway drop the lump in to the water and see how it holds up. You want it to stay together if possible. if its breaking away, this is a lack of biology and healthy soil proteins therein, more organics and more biology is the answer. As the water hits the aggregate water will rush in to the pore spaces, and if the soil has weak structure it will almost explode. you really want it to hold together mate, the more that break off, the less healthy your soil is.

if you are going to add sand, may be look at paramagentic sands like greensand in order to use the natural forces and energy therein to boost the disruption of the clay particles. Be aware, clays tend to compact after heavy construction, tillage and so on. it is this practice which destroys soil proteins and so biology, but they also compact due to radical salt overloading the negative clay surface charge of clays in your part of the world and most of the rest of planet earth too.

Adding cations to compacted clays is likely to further compound the nature of compaction, this is often why we see land treated with liming practice as a solution to pH as eventually having compacted salt layers in the profile and so rather than add + or - things, its a good idea to work on introductions of biology and always see biology as the start and end of all soil. more gram negative bacteria can help you scavenge the radical ions from the clays surface and so restore clays general like for like particle charge, which in healthy systems allows small gaps in all clays no matter if we imiagine they are one lump for all. Good idea is work a penetrometer in to the profile to find the stick points,. using injection, or spiking techniques, lace the profile at this level with inoculation and bio stims. you can use N, P and ca dry nutrients. the heat energy from P helps again to break up clays, Ca as above, and N provides some grease if you will, but first thing is know your sand before you embark on this. non coated versus coated.

its much easier to add BBM and Biology and forget about all of this hassle IMO.

BBM renders soil excess cations in to more harmless states, or in fact chelates them to make them more readily plant available and less likely to bind. it introduces high volumes of Oxygen, heat and the Bio Stims required. yes its expansive, but its more long term, its the total cost of adding gypsum versus the long terms solutions offered by BBM.

I do get it, we have to work with what we have, no passing judgment, i am not fit mate and always support your choices. This is just data :)
Clays can be resorted using Bio Balance Media, Humic Acids, Gypsum, but we might note, Ca++ is a cation, so as to the long term sustainability of gypsum I am not sure, I know it works in the short term. i havent got any l;onger term studies, but it is true calcium is a dominant ion and so it can kick off more sticky cation elements such as Sodium and magnesium and so on. it also burns higher rates of N during its decomposition that BBM mate.

i did consider the jar test,i do it with all my soil,but havent for simple reason of this shit is like a brick,hahaha,i like the idea of a screen in there too hold a chunk,,now doing this i wouldnt add the soap right,just suspend it and let it break apart and it will form the layers just like the other method i use? what i do is take 1 cup of soil and 1 cup of water add just a tad of dish soap,in a 1 quart mason jar i add all and shake the crap out of it,after 24 hours the layer have formed and you see what you got,,with the lump method you speak how many hours does it take?

Ecompost · Oct 14, 2017

oldskol4evr said:
i did consider the jar test,i do it with all my soil,but havent for simple reason of this shit is like a brick,hahaha,i like the idea of a screen in there too hold a chunk,,now doing this i wouldnt add the soap right,just suspend it and let it break apart and it will form the layers just like the other method i use? what i do is take 1 cup of soil and 1 cup of water add just a tad of dish soap,in a 1 quart mason jar i add all and shake the crap out of it,after 24 hours the layer have formed and you see what you got,,with the lump method you speak how many hours does it take?

yes no soap, just water buddy, a lump and time to watch. Roll a doob and then sort the test out :-) light it puff, wait, if its good leave it overnight. if its still largely good, you dont need to add Mycos, if it aint, add mycos. Mycos can get through the small gaps delicate roots cant. Dont forget, mushrooms can break through asphalt man. i got on thats come out of a layer of concrete and a whole terracotta tile mate :-)

oldskol4evr · Oct 14, 2017

Ecompost said:
yes no soap, just water buddy, a lump and time to watch. Roll a doob and then sort the test out :) light it puff, wait, if its good leave it overnight. if its still largely good, you dont need to add Mycos, if it aint, add mycos. Mycos can get through the small gaps delicate roots cant. Dont forget, mushrooms can break through asphalt man. i got on thats come out of a layer of concrete and a whole terracotta tile mate :)

think i got you,if majority is still intact next day,i can just chop to keep it broke up,if it disolves myco time,lmao,,the only way i have to spray the bbm is in a old mircle grow sprayer,would this work using 5 tsp and water it in till it all gone?

Organikz · Oct 14, 2017

oldskol4evr said:
looking great

Thank u sir.

Organikz · Oct 14, 2017

Ecompost said:
thats a beauty,

I merely stand on the shoulders of giants. So I know you are more than aware of this. Saponin is loaded with carbon and hydrogen and also creates cellular uptake pathways. Is this a direct carbon feed? Possible reason for reported stinkier plants by some of coots proteges.

Organikz · Oct 14, 2017

By the way @Ecompost I'm just ahaaaing. I know you did like 10 years ago. Intriguing using peptides and carbon.

I saw an illustration of the pores that open on the cell membrane and in they go.

This is botany shit son...lmao...i know it doesn't impress you but remember the day it just finally closed the missing link of the loop in your understanding....

Organikz · Oct 14, 2017

Apparently the hydro guys have known all about these new discoveries and they aren't new to them...however build a soil and ahisthma organics started selling soap nuts a month ago...lmfao

Organikz · Oct 14, 2017

Ecompost said:
You might be able to get this effect by shouting at your plant, and by ripping bits of leaves off when you walk past. i joke, nice work.
Terps are related to plant defense. Doing something as simple as adding Mycos at the germination or transplant stage can offer this type of frosty protection by increasing the plants innate systemic response. Chitin is just one of the reasons this happens. It is seen by a plant, which has no Chitin, as a foreign object. it is a component of insect saliva too, plants use its presence to raise the shields. terps are a simple yet highly effective shield, a way of making the plant less palatable or complex to certain insects or other. Lucky for us, we benefit from a certain manipulation of this plant system, but beware its power. You might know a story of drought in Africa and the one surviving and thriving tree species, and next to it, a pile of dead and fat herbivores, killed by eating the high tannin leaves of said tree, dead from starvation on stomachs full of indigestible tree leaves. it is thought the trees that couldn't make super toxic levels of defense, shared the data of impending consumption via interconnected highways of fungal networks, which enabled the Acacia to get ready. the Kudu never stood a chance :)

I see what you mean. Carbon. That's what I'm thinking. Look at how much carbon is attached to a terpene molecule. So this is bud candy secret...sorry I'm just thinking forcing a plant to uptake a combo of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen....you are making it breathe from the inside. Increasing carbon fixation?

Organikz · Oct 14, 2017

Ok i need to stop lmao. You overheated my brain alan...wtf...please donate your brain to science. Our world needs it

brazel · Oct 15, 2017

Farmer P said:
Top nug on top pic is cool. Love the christmas tree shape.

Yes it is!
Let's take this further! Christmas tree shape.. do you know why this is?
Maybe you do maybe you don't but that's not the reason I'm asking, I'm asking so people that read this that might not know, can get a good understanding of why this happens!
This is called?
The hormone promotes this is?
The hormone that inhibits this is?
In theory they travel opposite ways!
Depending on the balance of these hormones will effect the role they play!

Not calling you out or anybody else it literally has nothing to do with nobody!

This is not a question for farmer p.
Anyone can answer, but I prefer someone that isn't sure! We are all here to learn

brazel · Oct 15, 2017

Organikz said:
Use either aloe or soap nut tea. It aerates and loosens clay. It also opens direct cellular uptake pathways.

Reading more it basically creates pores on cellular membrane. Direct uptake pathways that my MBP uses to feed the plants.

Finally understanding how the peptides enter blew my mind....

Those are good, but you're gonna need a lot more than that to turn clay into a proper soil... good thing clay has lots of things plants crave in it!

Calling Out The Organic Growing Machines

Calling Out The Organic Growing Machines

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