Can you help a Hydro Homie?

[Aqua Man]

Yup all in that tent with its own res

Lights were not on yet when I left for work so I’ll provide an update tonight.

I have pics and records from when I moved the clones over but it all went like normal.

Have you changed the mothers nutrient ratios? P is accumulated so it’s especially important to have a fair amount of P for mother plants since when cuttings are taken they go theough a period of low ability for uptake.

Its also more important in veg than many realize as it is accumulated over time

 

[Moe.Red]

Have you changed the mothers nutrient ratios? P is accumulated so it’s especially important to have a fair amount of P for mother plants since when cuttings are taken they go theough a period of low ability for uptake.

Its also more important in veg than many realize as it is accumulated over time

I'm really leaning towards this as a possible solution. I still feel like it is a deficiency, but adding more nutes (including P) did not seem to help. Could be a lockout or something wrong with the ratios in the res, so starting over seemed prudent. Tonight they will have been running for a day with less than 1/2 the nutes and lower light levels, so hopefully the condition tonight will give us another clue.

One other point - I have not been sterilizing between runs. The biologics are working swimmingly as seen by the roots, so I let it ride. It is possible this practice has resulted in an untreated pathogen, I just don't know what that would be other than some fungus as mentioned above.

I did add enzymes and great white myco at the time I flipped to flower, but I'm having a hard time believing that has anything to do with it. Roots and res look great, no smells, etc.

Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[Cashmeh]

When using trio you cant add just p without adding K. Lets just say I rarely use the grow blend and use more of the bloom.

Im surprised you dont test the nutrients individually as high tech as you are.

Im sure you have seen what i use. But ill share it again.

Those phosphate strips are amazing. I try to keep 100ppms but ive noticed it down to like 10 ppm and had to add bloom a few times.

I use to be worried about keeping overall ppms low, but it just lets specific nutrients run out faster. As long as ur under 150ppms of each. . ur fine. Only way to know is to test though. I cant run below 650 anymore or ill have to add something every other day. Slightly higher ppms allow me to go 3 days without testing or adding.

 

[Aqua Man]

I'm really leaning towards this as a possible solution. I still feel like it is a deficiency, but adding more nutes (including P) did not seem to help. Could be a lockout or something wrong with the ratios in the res, so starting over seemed prudent. Tonight they will have been running for a day with less than 1/2 the nutes and lower light levels, so hopefully the condition tonight will give us another clue.

One other point - I have not been sterilizing between runs. The biologics are working swimmingly as seen by the roots, so I let it ride. It is possible this practice has resulted in an untreated pathogen, I just don't know what that would be other than some fungus as mentioned above.

I did add enzymes and great white myco at the time I flipped to flower, but I'm having a hard time believing that has anything to do with it. Roots and res look great, no smells, etc.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Oh these are flipped to flower? And at a very early age? That would make sense to me as unless the mother is on a high P feed or there is enough time after rooting for the olants to accumulate adequate P for the high demand in early flower id expect to see this. Only there isnt a really quick fix to a P deficiency and its best dealt with before flip to flower as this is when demand for P spikes.

Another lik bit of insurance is to add P boost a week or so before flower to in a way to speed up budset (a few reasons as to how that works) bit also will help ensure as demand picks up the plant has enough.

Although it’s important to make sure the plants have accumulated enough P before flip. Demand drops after stretch a little and continues to drop as K becomes more in demand mid to late flowers.

The key is to make sure they have enough until stretch is finished as it being an accumulated nutrient after stretch if you have a deficiency it’s usually to late to correct.

And tbh im not sure how effective a foliar may be in correction so you may want to look into that but other than that P is one of those nutrients thats kinda make adjustment and hope then adjust for the next grow keeping your experience in mind

 

[Aqua Man]

Just to add P is also commonly an issue due to availability. So looking at the sources availability is always good but i dont think that was an issue here. Likely more a ratio in the feed of the mother and veg period. If it was a fast flip then that may have contributed as well

 

[Aqua Man]

I'm really leaning towards this as a possible solution. I still feel like it is a deficiency, but adding more nutes (including P) did not seem to help. Could be a lockout or something wrong with the ratios in the res, so starting over seemed prudent. Tonight they will have been running for a day with less than 1/2 the nutes and lower light levels, so hopefully the condition tonight will give us another clue.

One other point - I have not been sterilizing between runs. The biologics are working swimmingly as seen by the roots, so I let it ride. It is possible this practice has resulted in an untreated pathogen, I just don't know what that would be other than some fungus as mentioned above.

I did add enzymes and great white myco at the time I flipped to flower, but I'm having a hard time believing that has anything to do with it. Roots and res look great, no smells, etc.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Like i say there is not really a quick fix to a P deficiency i can think of other than possibly a foliar which i am unsure of. Thats why you may be seeing not much is helping as is my experience with that also.

@Frankster would likely be avle to gove a more detailed explication of the top of his head on the bioavailability of P. Its one of those nutes that even while having high amounts can be stubborn in its availability or form

 

[Aqua Man]

Sorry for the 50 million replies @Moe.Red

No the biological factors are not an issue and quite the opposite they are a huge benefit.

The enzymes were a great idea but finding one that is specifically or partially specific to the processing of P for availability is in your case beneficial. Its been a while since ive looked at the market for this. There are also specific bacteria that produce enzymes specifically to break P down. I believe the makers of terp tea and raw are a couple of companies that sell these. Not necessarily needed butbin some cases beneficial depending in your nutrient sources and ratios

 

[Aqua Man]

And to reiterate the issue may already be corrected

 

[Moe.Red]

Sorry for the 50 million replies @Moe.Red

No man, I love the stream of consciousness. Its the same thing I have been doing, nice to bounce this off the experts.

 

[Moe.Red]

The enzymes were a great idea but finding one that is specifically or partially specific to the processing of P for availability is in your case beneficial. Its been a while since ive looked at the market for this. There are also specific bacteria that produce enzymes specifically to break P down. I believe the makers of terp tea and raw are a couple of companies that sell these. Not necessarily needed butbin some cases beneficial depending in your nutrient sources and ratios

This is what I use

Amazon.com

I mix up a 5 gal bucket with this and myco and dip the roots in it up to the top of the net pot getting all the hydroton and roots covered. You can visibly see a difference - the roots come out a milky white very quickly. Then I dump the remainder of the bucket in the res.

 

[Anthem]

Moe.red there is more going on with those plants than one single thing. IMO they are suffering from transplant shock, the light is a little intense for the plants at the moments, see the top leaves starting to fold inward. There was a humidity and temperature event that could have also caused some of the issues. IMO do are mentioned, lower the light intensity, do not lower the nutrients below what they were at before transplant and perhaps add some cal mag. The leaves folding inward can also be induced by low Mag. But for the most part this is just the plants going thru transplant shock. I have seen the lower leaves react in a similar manner and I believe it is not a problem with P but the plant cannabilizing the lower leaves to bring mobile nutrients to the tops because of rapid growth stimulated by the added light and the plant trying to react to the added light. Regardless, just backing the lights down is the primary solution IMO.

 

[Aqua Man]

This is what I use

Amazon.com

I mix up a 5 gal bucket with this and myco and dip the roots in it up to the top of the net pot getting all the hydroton and roots covered. You can visibly see a difference - the roots come out a milky white very quickly. Then I dump the remainder of the bucket in the res.

Possibly to much oxidizing of the roots. I have seen root stress cause similar issues

 

[Moe.Red]

So many potential issues pointed out, and everyone sees something different.

I sure wish there were a better way to diagnose stuff like this.

Can't wait to get home and see how they look today.

 

[Aqua Man]

So many potential issues pointed out, and everyone sees something different.

I sure wish there were a better way to diagnose stuff like this.

Can't wait to get home and see how they look today.

The deficiency is the easy part, the root cause not so much and is different in almost every case. Add to that it can be a combination of things and yeah sometimes you never truly know. But the discussion makes us mindful of the factors and considerations we should pay attention to in the future. If its not progressing to new leaves then its likely fixed but pay attention to the next time you dip and how they respond, the environmental factors from the previous time period, any contributing factors or events that may have occurred prior to seeing the symptoms.

And remember bot to get caught chasing ghosts if it is not progressing beyond what you have observed as that can lead to more issues

 

[Cashmeh]

I sure wish there were a better way to diagnose stuff like this.

Have no fear all this info we enter into computers will be easier to access in the future.

Soon Alexa will be able to tell you whats wrong by simply pointing your camera at it. . .

All this random data we post will be organized and easier acceptable.

I myself love the troubleshooting aspect. As soon as there is nothing to do and things are going good. . im ready to jump ship lol

 

[Ponky]

If it's a big show you can probably find a lab if it's worth it. But I think it's pretty expensive. But they test everything. Your water. Soil. Pot leaching. Diseases and fungus. Contamination. https://www.sgs.ca/en/life-sciences/contract-laboratory-services/cannabis-testing-services

Not sure if this is the guys we use just an example of one of the companies. I bet if you can get them a sample they'll know exactly.

 

[Moe.Red]

And remember bot to get caught chasing ghosts if it is not progressing beyond what you have observed as that can lead to more issues

Perhaps the best advice so far - easy to get into overcorrecting mode and really screw yourself. Ask me how I know...

 

[Aqua Man]

Perhaps the best advice so far - easy to get into overcorrecting mode and really screw yourself. As me how I know...

The same way i do lol

 

[Moe.Red]

So, good news. The plants are unchanged except they are 3 inches taller. Man they grow fast in this system.

Really, I think this was the root of my problem. Sometimes when you push a plant this hard, any laziness or lack of automation in your husbandry can cause a flair up in a weak spot in your grow. After filtering thru all the comments (love you growmies) I think it comes down to P. And the fact that I had missed a normally scheduled water change. I think my ratios were out of whack for the stage in the plant's life and the fast growth. I need to feed these clones differently going forward to prep them for the shock.

I added 1/2 strength nutes back in at the appropriate ratio. Raised the lights 3" because I want this soundly behind me before I SCROG. They will come back down when I make the canopy, I'll give it a couple more days. I also kept them turned down from last night just to give them a minute to catch their breath.

I know these damaged leaves will not come back so they need to be taken off, but gonna use them as the canary in the coal mine tonight and verify the problem is resolved.







Man, I just gotta say this forum is pretty freaking cool. Look at the ideas in this thread. If you read this thru and didn't learn anything about growing, you are some kinda expert!

 

[Aqua Man]

So, good news. The plants are unchanged except they are 3 inches taller. Man they grow fast in this system.

Really, I think this was the root of my problem. Sometimes when you push a plant this hard, any laziness or lack of automation in your husbandry can cause a flair up in a weak spot in your grow. After filtering thru all the comments (love you growmies) I think it comes down to P. And the fact that I had missed a normally scheduled water change. I think my ratios were out of whack for the stage in the plant's life and the fast growth. I need to feed these clones differently going forward to prep them for the shock.

I added 1/2 strength nutes back in at the appropriate ratio. Raised the lights 3" because I want this soundly behind me before I SCROG. They will come back down when I make the canopy, I'll give it a couple more days. I also kept them turned down from last night just to give them a minute to catch their breath.

I know these damaged leaves will not come back so they need to be taken off, but gonna use them as the canary in the coal mine tonight and verify the problem is resolved.







Man, I just gotta say this forum is pretty freaking cool. Look at the ideas in this thread. If you read this thru and didn't learn anything about growing, you are some kinda expert!

Nice… just curious if you have implimented our discussion stuff in this grow or not yet?