choosing and AC for a 10 lighter, i thought mini splits were expensive but theyre not

[mcattak]

OK , Here goes. If you live in a climate that gets very cold winters than the only model of a/c on the market that works year round is the friedrich. They are about the best on the market for mini's, very well built. Mine have been running for 4 years with maybe 2 weeks of down time total. If the weather doesnt get that cold then the mitsu's are excellent also.

The excel air is a great unit, already has the cold weather kit installed. The best thing about this type of a/c unit is the ducting. It puts cold air everywhere in your room. My mini splits i had to put 8 inch can fan max's sitting right in front of them sucking in the cool air and blowing it through 8 inch ducting to the corners farthest away from the mini's.

hope this helps

dds

Thought you were on vacation...Couldn't get away from the forum...

 

[mcattak]

CannaColorado, did I understand you right? You are putting the compressor / condenser (outdoor) unit inside? How will you evacuate the heat?

I've built several rooms utilizing an indoor-concealed outdoor unit. Didn't think too many other people were into that type of thing though and thought what I was doing what somewhat "unique".

Nope not unique...

 

[happyinmendo]

You need a 3.5 ton.

4000 btu per 1000w light x 10 = 40000 btu / 12000 btu per ton = 3.3 Ton. I'd say going with a 4 Ton AC will do you a great service as you will be fine during the summer with the extra heat radiating through.

 

[Midnight_son]

CannaColorado, did I understand you right? You are putting the compressor / condenser (outdoor) unit inside? How will you evacuate the heat?

I've built several rooms utilizing an indoor-concealed outdoor unit. Didn't think too many other people were into that type of thing though and thought what I was doing what somewhat "unique".

Not unique in this field bro, I have done it this way several times.:icon_spin:

 

[kushpheen]

LMFAO. Watch out for the AC Popo. :icon_spin: On a serious note though, 60,000 vs 90,000 the 90,000 will win every time

Mini-splits operate on the new R410A refrigerant and you don't have to be licensed to install one. The older R134 models are the ones people need certification for, discharging r134 can result in a fine....

 

[mcattak]

You need a 3.5 ton.

4000 btu per 1000w light x 10 = 40000 btu / 12000 btu per ton = 3.3 Ton. I'd say going with a 4 Ton AC will do you a great service as you will be fine during the summer with the extra heat radiating through.

Unless your dealing with a so-cal summer you might need a little more...

 

[mcattak]

Lots of wall-mount fans help air circulation. I run a flat garden w/ reflectors on tables, so it's easy for me to do. But yeah, a mini split's air handler is very weak compared to a full-sized sheet metal box.

As far as ducting, though, it will likely cost you extra $$ to get a good square-to-round (if that's what you want) shroud fitting made for the air handler. Just about any sheet metal shop should be able to make you one, in the $75 - $125 range. HVAC shops will simply order 'em from the sheet metal shop mostly, and of course take their cut.

I'm using multiple mini-split's in my situation because I felt uncomfortable doing a DIY copper pipe sweat for the first time w/ a live refrigerant line. I remember watching a HVAC guy do it once, involving cooling down the pipes with lots of cold water, some temperature measuring, and worst of all, knowing what #'s to read off the manifold gauge for that line set they ran. I think there might be some full-sized units with flared fittings, but I don't think they're too common.

(I'm not terribly fond of Excel Air systems, personally, and it's not primarily due to price.)

Why don't you like excel...Are you from canada....

My condenser units are in the warehouse which has extraction fans...How is that different from how you do it???...Undercurrent Jack has his condenser indoors too..

mc

 

[mcattak]

Mini-splits operate on the new R410A refrigerant and you don't have to be licensed to install one. The older R134 models are the ones people need certification for, discharging r134 can result in a fine....

So any retailer will sell me an a/c unit that has R410A in it...

mc

 

[DrGoodMeds]

Great thread guys! I think I am going to scoop on a 5 ton Excel with the damper package myself so I can run a flip off the same condenser. Do you guys think one of these can handle running 24/7 for a few months at a time? I also heard that ac don't run as efficiently at higher altitudes so you need to size up about 25%... Has anyone else heard the same?

 

[Midnight_son]

Mini-splits operate on the new R410A refrigerant and you don't have to be licensed to install one. The older R134 models are the ones people need certification for, discharging r134 can result in a fine....

R134A is mostly used in the automotive industry, it replaced R12. R410a is used in residential and commercial AC units and replaced R22, although there are still units on the market being sold with R22.

 

[mcattak]

mcattak, it's not a very cost-effective option for most applications, neither is it a performance-effective option. It is quite limited real-world flip/flop application because the "off" room will oftentimes need cool air from dehumidifiers, etc. Check out my flip/flop thread on IC utilizing 14" Honeywell dampers (the Excel Air system uses 12") and return fans. I've tried a few different combinations, including the dampers switched along with lights (which is what the Excel Air damper system does, basically), dampers that demand-open with a single thermostat, and dampers that demand-open with two thermostats.

It's not worth it 90% of the time IMO. I can't really think of the 10% of the time where it'll truly be worth it, but I'm sure there's an exception somewhere.

Yeah when i was considering the damper I was going to throw a 1 ton in each room for a little extra lights on and no short cycle and de-humidification lights off///

The 12" thing is weird..My intake is 16" and exhaust is 14"...Maybe the other way around...There damper changes those sizes????...Interesting..

Can you get me a link to the ic thread there search sucks sometimes..Or maybe its me..

Thanks

mc

 

[mcattak]

Actually I just thought of a part of the 10% where t'll be worth it:

When you're trying to safely squeeze every last amp from your service, and having two separate units and not being able to guarantee that they won't both kick on at the same time and trip the main breaker, or such... when you need a continuous flow of cold air at any cost without peaks... I guess that's where it'll be worth the efforts & costs. (I've actually run into this type of a amp-squeezing scenario more times than I'd like to admit.)

Yeah its weird...You learn so much from moving from space to space...We were stoked with 3 phase 300 amp until we found out the 3 phase was 208 instead of 480...Those 3 phase 480 units are cheap as dirt...Big chillers and a/c..

Only a laymen with the electricity and the numbers probably arent right but you get the idea...

I need to go to HVAC and electrical school and save some $$

mc

 

[RMCG]

Anyone care to comment on Coolerado A/C's?

 

[RMCG]

Thanks for checking them out. Most have shit on the idea calling them swamp coolers. Biggest problem I see is the humidity staying the same vs A/C where you get dehumidification. Right now RH is sitting @ 32%, so some additional humidity is not a bother.

Thinking of running this unit in a flipflop with (filtered) air exchange between the rooms and a lung room. So lights out humidity 'spikes' could be equalized and if necessary, add in additional mini-splits or dehumidifiers to reduce it as necessary/as required.


My only real concern with them is the 'venting' of the hot/moist air and making sure the stink is out.


Yeah, watercooled is on this site and others, I didnt realize he was using a marine a/c. Great links btw. Need to check them out a little more and go re-read his posts.

 

[CannaColorado]

Mini-splits operate on the new R410A refrigerant and you don't have to be licensed to install one. The older R134 models are the ones people need certification for, discharging r134 can result in a fine....

tight tight tight

I also heard that ac don't run as efficiently at higher altitudes so you need to size up about 25%... Has anyone else heard the same?

can anyone comment on this?


.

 

[mrdizzle]

DD uses 2 of those 3ton mini splits for a 24,000w garden with a few cooltubes in there.

 

[Midnight_son]

tight tight tight



can anyone comment on this?


.

I read that a commercial cooling tower is 3-8% less efficient at 5000ft as opposed to at sea level.....
Don't know if it applies to conventional AC though.

 

[DrGoodMeds]

I read that a commercial cooling tower is 3-8% less efficient at 5000ft as opposed to at sea level.....
Don't know if it applies to conventional AC though.

I was talking to an HVAC guy here is CO that "specializes" in commercial grows but I think he was just trying to sell me more equipment then I needed. He claimed 25%... He also wanted to charge me $4,500 for a mechanical drawing when I supplied him with the original mechanical CAD file! That's what made me decide plug n play is the way to go. No drawings, no permits, no problem!

 

[mcattak]

I was talking to an HVAC guy here is CO that "specializes" in commercial grows but I think he was just trying to sell me more equipment then I needed. He claimed 25%... He also wanted to charge me $4,500 for a mechanical drawing when I supplied him with the original mechanical CAD file! That's what made me decide plug n play is the way to go. No drawings, no permits, no problem!

Good choice...You should go back to that same HVAC guy and design a plug and play you can sell locally...Greencoast here in so-cal have there own plug and play version...

$$$$$$


Mc

 

[DrGoodMeds]

CannaColorado, did I understand you right? You are putting the compressor / condenser (outdoor) unit inside? How will you evacuate the heat?

I've built several rooms utilizing an indoor-concealed outdoor unit. Didn't think too many other people were into that type of thing though and thought what I was doing what somewhat "unique".

CT,

When designing a room within a room and the compressor inside how much air exchange do you try to achieve say for each ton? What is the minimum volume you can go in the room until there is not enough "buffer environment" in the room? There must be a point where the remaining volume in the space is too small dissipate the heat from the compressor and air exchange is not enough right?

Anyone else have thoughts on this?