choosing and AC for a 10 lighter, i thought mini splits were expensive but theyre not

[CannaColorado]

so I am planning out a 10 lighter right now, with the potential of it being an 18 lighter when were all said and threw. So since i am in a resonable climate here in CO 100 max in the summer i was thinking about getting an excel 5 ton from here http://www.westcoastgrowers.com/excelair.htm but its a little over $6k for only 60,000 btu (wasn't planning on running 18 lights with this). Then this morning after puffing on a little grapefruit to start the day i found these

they are the friedrich 30k btu models, and they are only 2,200 dollars so i could essentially get three of these for the same money i was going to spend on the excel units, hence the 18 light expansion project for stage two. It would probably be within my budget to throw an extra 30k btu mini split in there as part of stage two as well.

So what is the catch? I thought a mini split was supposed to be expensive compared to the excels.... i think i might be missing something here. Are these crappy models i am looking at? thanks

 

[Farmer Jon]

The "catch" so to speak is that the excel has a much more powerful air handler for the inside of the room as opposed to the weaker one that comes with most mini split units, meaning that there is a much higher rate of air flow coming from the excel allowing it to cool a much bigger space.
Imo you would be better off dropping the dough for the larger unit now rather than 3 of the mini splits. Not to mention not having to install 3 separate units.

 

[Midnight_son]

so I am planning out a 10 lighter right now, with the potential of it being an 18 lighter when were all said and threw. So since i am in a resonable climate here in CO 100 max in the summer i was thinking about getting an excel 5 ton from here http://www.westcoastgrowers.com/excelair.htm but its a little over $6k for only 60,000 btu (wasn't planning on running 18 lights with this). Then this morning after puffing on a little grapefruit to start the day i found these

they are the friedrich 30k btu models, and they are only 2,200 dollars so i could essentially get three of these for the same money i was going to spend on the excel units, hence the 18 light expansion project for stage two. It would probably be within my budget to throw an extra 30k btu mini split in there as part of stage two as well.

So what is the catch? I thought a mini split was supposed to be expensive compared to the excels.... i think i might be missing something here. Are these crappy models i am looking at? thanks

If you are going to use co2, you will need roughly 4000btu of ac for each 1k light. Your eventual expansion to 18k will leave you short with a 60,000 btu unit. The 30,000 mini-splits have 650cfm blowers which mounted on opposing walls will deliver plenty of cooling power. 3 of these gives you a total of 90,000btu, more than enough to do the job.

 

[mcattak]

If you are going to use co2, you will need roughly 4000btu of ac for each 1k light. Your eventual expansion to 18k will leave you short with a 60,000 btu unit. The 30,000 mini-splits have 650cfm blowers which mounted on opposing walls will deliver plenty of cooling power. 3 of these gives you a total of 90,000btu, more than enough to do the job.

Agreed ..

For 18 lights the 5 ton is not enough...What you are paying for with the excel is the support from Austin(Owner) who is mj freindly,understands room design you will not need an hvac guy...My 5 ton was operational in 2 hours...Easy
You will need to either hire an HVAC guy or DIY those mini-splits....
Anyone know how those friedrichs compare to the mitubishis or lg...Definitely cheaper...Good find...

Dont forget to add the line sets to the order...

MC

 

[kushpheen]

One of the biggest differences is the excel units installations are essentially DIY, the refrigerant lines come pre-charged and don't need an experienced hvac tech to vacuum the lines prior to startup like the friedrich ones do. If you know a good A/C guy or feel like this is something you can do on your own, given the right tools and instructions, then the friedrich minisplits are great. Just so you know, if you don't vacuum the lines properly, moisture will mix with the refrigerant and ruin the unit.

I'm not sure how the friedrich compare to the mitsubishi's or lg's but when your comparing units, you definitely want to choose a unit with invertor technology and one with the highest seer rating possible. Also make sure its able to operate in extreme hot and cold environments, like the height of summer and the dead of winter.....

Btw you can just make the linesets yourself, you can buy the copper tubing at most hardware stores. All you have to do is flare the ends of the copper tubing which is really quite easy.

 

[Midnight_son]

Friedrich

The Friedrich units are good units, right up there with the Mitsubishi's. The model in question does have inverter technology. 30,700btu and 15 seer rating.

 

[CannaColorado]

sorry i wasn't clearer on this, i was only planning a 10 lighter with the 5 ton but can do a stage two much easier with the mini splits is what i was thinking. but what about what mac attack was saying about the install, how hard is it to vaccum(i can build a ballast LOL) the lines and what tools will i need, i am off to search the web for a diy.....

 

[CannaColorado]

also, this here says that it uses 3460 "cooling watts" does this mean when i am budgeting out my electrical for my self i should count on them drawing 3460 watts running at full capacity or is this anoth measure of heat removal?( i am guessing its the draw cause we use BTUs for the heat stuff)

If thats the case then these are pretty sick, they would be able to cool everything for 10960 watts.... hehehe thats silly my power company is gonna hump my leg.

oh and Freidrichs were recomended by DD and a few others which is why i was lookin at this model...

 

[CannaColorado]

grrr, well its against federal law to install these yourself and since i am medical i think i am going to have to just have an HVAC guy do it.... damnnnnnnnn

 

[Midnight_son]

The mini-spllits are not hard to install. the vacuum pump and gauges can be had on ebay for around 80.00 If you want to stay on the up and up, you could do all the install yourself with the exception of vacuuming the lineset and firing up the unit for the first time. these units come with enough freon in them for a specifed footage of lineset. If you don't exceed that footage, no freon will be necessary. That should keep your install cost to a minimum.

 

[doubleds]

OK , Here goes. If you live in a climate that gets very cold winters than the only model of a/c on the market that works year round is the friedrich. They are about the best on the market for mini's, very well built. Mine have been running for 4 years with maybe 2 weeks of down time total. If the weather doesnt get that cold then the mitsu's are excellent also.

The excel air is a great unit, already has the cold weather kit installed. The best thing about this type of a/c unit is the ducting. It puts cold air everywhere in your room. My mini splits i had to put 8 inch can fan max's sitting right in front of them sucking in the cool air and blowing it through 8 inch ducting to the corners farthest away from the mini's.

hope this helps

dds

 

[CannaColorado]

The mini-spllits are not hard to install. the vacuum pump and gauges can be had on ebay for around 80.00 If you want to stay on the up and up, you could do all the install yourself with the exception of vacuuming the lineset and firing up the unit for the first time. these units come with enough freon in them for a specifed footage of lineset. If you don't exceed that footage, no freon will be necessary. That should keep your install cost to a minimum.

i bet they just throw a fine at you for doing that anyways, although you would think they would just throw a fine at you for smoking a joint, but nooooooo you go to jail for years..... so i could see them sending me to jail for installing an AC myself, not my medical grow, the AC on my medical grow hahahahah..... I wonder what the mandatory minimum sentence is for installing 3 ACs

The excel air is a great unit, already has the cold weather kit installed. The best thing about this type of a/c unit is the ducting. It puts cold air everywhere in your room. My mini splits i had to put 8 inch can fan max's sitting right in front of them sucking in the cool air and blowing it through 8 inch ducting to the corners farthest away from the mini's.

hope this helps

dds

i live in colorado but its going inside a garage on the outside of a sealed built room, so i don't think the garage will ever get below -18f without heat and i can put a heater in during the dead of winter, but most the garaged round my parts are pretty well insulated.

Good call on the fans, i think i will be happiest with 3 freidichs because that'll give me 90,000 btu of cooling.

Would you agree with the gentlemen that said earlier that 60,000 btu of friedrich cooling vs 60,000 btu of excel cooling is not the same after you made the fan modifications? Cause my thought is 60,000 btu is 60,000 btu either way you split it so long as its circulating around the room proper.

also thanks for being on top of my post even when you are on vacation. You are Radical.

All of those things, I'm extremely doubtful of after briefly speaking with them.

lol your brain thinks like mine

 

[Midnight_son]

LMFAO. Watch out for the AC Popo. :icon_spin: On a serious note though, 60,000 vs 90,000 the 90,000 will win every time

 

[CannaColorado]

LMFAO. Watch out for the AC Popo. :icon_spin: On a serious note though, 60,000 vs 90,000 the 90,000 will win every time

tats wut i wer tinkin.... i ate to much of my tinc today, yummy afghan/haze with agave nectar and some special ingredients : )

 

[CannaColorado]

i was doing a little more shopiing after getting through some pages of Losts thread and i saw he used the harbor point 24k btu found hereharbor point ac 24k btu

whats tight about these is they use 2.76 kw max and 2.5kw on the reg

the friedrichs use 3460 cooling watts which i am going to assume is their rated useage not peak usage.

so the friedrich gets 8.43 Btus per watt and the harbor point gets 9.6 btu's per watt.

it would cost $6600 for 3 friedrichs and 92.1k btu or it would cost $6800 for four harbor points with 96k btu of cooling, so its pretty comparable back and forth.

then i was dumb and realized that friedrichs makes a 36,000 btu model which gets 8.9 btus per watt and would cost $8100 to get three of them and have 108k btu of cooling, which should handle my 18 lights just fine and possibly even more during the winter if i did some cool tubing using the cold ass air from outside.

so i think i am going to go with the 36k units just because it seems like it will be the best option and i am only spending an extra 1,000 dollars. Plus I could do it in stages pretty easily. Get two of them for the 10 light operation, and when were ready to go to 18 lights we can scoop the other one.

oh and the excel is way out the picture after i did my excel comparison, the convenience cost of installation is pretty hefty on those, you were right.

gotta go check on the Tinc real quick smells like all the everclear is boiled off : P

 

[CannaColorado]

tinc is looking so nice, did 50% orange blossome honey 45% agave nectar and 5% soy lecthin and then let sit in hot water bath for 1.5 hours for the honey to do its thang....

 

[RMCG]

i live in colorado but its going inside a garage on the outside of a sealed built room, so i don't think the garage will ever get below -18f without heat and i can put a heater in during the dead of winter, but most the garaged round my parts are pretty well insulated.

Don't forget good airflow IN the garage on these compressors, as well as full air exchange of the garage itself.

 

[heater]

I'm a bit confused about the "pre-charged line" of Excel units.

Does this mean the copper refrigerant line ships filled with high-pressure refrigerant (R410A or otherwise)?Yes Is that safe?Yes Or does it mean more or less the same as other manufacturers, that it's nitrogen-charged? Does it ship with a negative vacuum pressure?No (If you were to press down on the quick connect valve of a new lineset, would it suck air in??)

All of those things, I'm extremely doubtful of after briefly speaking with them.

Seems to me that their lines may have been handled a bit better to prevent moist air from entering. But it would make sense especially seeing their SEER ratings that maybe they're just "support-tolerant" of a compressor running with some air inside,No air or moisture for any refrigerant compressor knowing the scope of the project?

Anyone know for sure?

These are industry standards.
Not knowing Excel units (they are Goodman mfg. products which i'm familiar with.) Excel equips the evaporator and condenser with quick connects and makes up line sets with quick connects, pre charges line sets with correct amount of refrigerant according to length.
Also it's my understanding that Excell adds on the necessary low ambient controls for low temp operation.

 

[CannaColorado]

Don't forget good airflow IN the garage on these compressors, as well as full air exchange of the garage itself.

yea i will have the ability to change the air in the garage out once a minute if i want to.... i think that should cut it.

lthough not perfect) number.


If you want to install your own mini split, you can get most parts locally if you don't want to order online. A mini split adapter fitting from eBay for $10; a vacuum pump from Harbor Freight for $80-ish; and a manifold gauge from Harbor Freight for $50-ish. I know it says R-22 and R-134a only, but you're only pulling vacuum, not charging refrigerant, so it'll be plenty fine for R410a systems).

The manifold gauge is not absolutely necessary but I highly recommend it as you can verify that there is no leaks in your system with it (it should the same level of vacuum for 10+ minutes; I did 2+ hour test to be sure)... why risk ruining a $$$$ system just because you didn't bother to double-check for leaks before start-up? Once you open up the refrigerant lines, if there are any leaks it's pretty much too late and it will generally involve a HVAC tech visit to get it re-charged.

yea i will definatley be doing a 2 hour test for sure

CannaColorado, did I understand you right? You are putting the compressor / condenser (outdoor) unit inside? How will you evacuate the heat?

I've built several rooms utilizing an indoor-concealed outdoor unit. Didn't think too many other people were into that type of thing though and thought what I was doing what somewhat "unique".

i told you bro, we think a like. I will be pulling lotso air through when needed

 

[mcattak]

I'm a bit confused about the "pre-charged line" of Excel units.

Does this mean the copper refrigerant line ships filled with high-pressure refrigerant (R410A or otherwise)? Is that safe? Or does it mean more or less the same as other manufacturers, that it's nitrogen-charged? Does it ship with a negative vacuum pressure? (If you were to press down on the quick connect valve of a new lineset, would it suck air in??)

All of those things, I'm extremely doubtful of after briefly speaking with them.

Anyone know for sure?

-I set up my excel products in about 2 hours ...That included the heavy lifting....It was an easier install than my CAP 24....

-You pay about $1500 - $2000 extra per unit...But I get great support over the phone (troubleshooting)..
-They are mj friendly (how many times you talk to someone over the phone and because they don't know what your doing its hard to get real info on the parameters of the product)...That extra $ is worth not having an HVAC guy asking questions...

Seems to me that their lines may have been handled a bit better to prevent moist air from entering. But it would make sense especially seeing their SEER ratings that maybe they're just "support-tolerant" of a compressor running with some air inside, knowing the scope of the project?

Unfortunately I do not know very much about HVAC...Can you explain this to me...


There is now another company making pre charged units...They are selling them out of long beach...