Crop K. Seeds Black Domina 4x4 DWC

  • Thread starter ninjadip
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
ninjadip

ninjadip

1,268
263
Sorry I have not read the thread but I'll dive in best I can.

carbohydrates cannot be taken up by the plant. sugars in the root zone only work to feed biologics there. If you are running sterile you are wasting $. An argument can be made (and would be by me) that even live systems should not have carbs added. It just produces a boom and bust cycle for the biologics.

If you go sterile there is no need for organics, they will only cause issues, this includes kelp.

@Anthem just turned me on to Mr. Fulvic. I am on my first set of grows with it, so I need to reserve judgement for now. I feel comfortable saying it does not hurt, and that the potential is there for this to be a permanent addition to my lineup, but too early to declare victory. Anthem may chime in.

Pollination explains it. 😁
Ok, Yes, now i remember i got the sugars to feed the good bacteria. In hindsight I think i have to agree with you about the bloom in biologics from it, for me the bad ones. I got caught into something about the carbs being needed for healthy biologics, or they will die. but live and learn i guess. I won't be buying anymore of that.

Yeah, i really liked what i saw with mr. fulvic when i first added it, but didn't know if that was only good if running live or not.

So if going sterile, no carbs, no kelp, my other additives include GH Floralicious which to me smells organic, maybe kelp or fish poop. Curious about that one.

Thanks for the help
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
Ok, Yes, now i remember i got the sugars to feed the good bacteria. In hindsight I think i have to agree with you about the bloom in biologics from it, for me the bad ones. I got caught into something about the carbs being needed for healthy biologics, or they will die. but live and learn i guess. I won't be buying anymore of that.

Yeah, i really liked what i saw with mr. fulvic when i first added it, but didn't know if that was only good if running live or not.

So if going sterile, no carbs, no kelp, my other additives include GH Floralicious which to me smells organic, maybe kelp or fish poop. Curious about that one.

Thanks for the help
Yeah brother all good happy to help. I still haven't scrolled back up, I really need to start from the beginning. Maybe tomorrow over coffee. For now I'll just answer your questions with no knowledge of your situation lol. Forgive me if I miss something obvious that pertains to you or tell you crap you already know.

I ran GH for years up until recently when I switched to Jacks for a bit more control. Started sterile in my RDWCs and switched to live, been playing and tuning res life for years as well now. This was from my last grow

1670627855388


That plant looks a little worn down because he was at the low end of PPM when I was setting up the fogponics. Started with 4 different PPM levels in 4 systems trying to figure out the sweet spot. This one was starving. But the point is if you look at that white stuff on the coco it's mycelium. I like to promote an entire rhizosphere packed with life. Selected properly of course. I start inoculating with good stuff as soon as the seed cracks open. I can't remember the last time I saw root rot IRL.

All you need to finish a grow in RDWC that exceeds most dispensary weed is the 3 part GH, Cal Mag, PH up and down, and the ability to test for PPM and PH reliably. Then pick live or sterile. If you are going sterile, add H2O2 to the list. If live, listen on.

Now that the basics are covered, lets see why this works.

Flora


So it mentions chelated several times. Also says EDDHA and EDTA.


I'm giving you tons of stuff to google here, but that link to EDDHA above says its a chelating agent. Spend some time understanding that concept if you want, but it means that the metal ions in this bottle of micro do not require a helper bacteria to make the ion available to the plant for uptake. So this is not organic. Organics are way slower in that they need bacteria to preprocess nutrients into nutrients. Keeping those bacteria alive with carbs is a good idea if you are using them. We are not, and because of chelation we don't need them. To me it makes no sense to run organics in a system built for speed. Leave that stuff to the dirty growers.

FloraGro, FloraMicro and FloraBloom have a well designed balance for cannabis and you really "need" nothing else. But I'll make some recommendations that will take it up a notch.

PH can be an issue. Plants do well with silica in veg and early flower. I use a silica product to buffer the water allowing for a more forgiving system as well as improve the strength of stalks.

Fulvic acid - you had questions on that. I'm currently testing Mr. Fulvic. Fulvic is basically Humic acid only tiny molecules. To me, this is the primary reason I run it:

Phytochemicals​

Phytochemicals have critical functions in plants, playing important roles in growth and defense against pathogens.

Mr.Fulvic has 22 flavonoids — powerful antioxidants that mitigate oxidative damage, reducing environmental stress like temperature fluctuation, drought, sun damage, and inflammation.
They are needed for plants to create vitamins, enzymes, proteins, and biosynthesize additional phytochemicals.
Many phytochemicals function as activators of enzymatic reactions, gene expression, and mitochondrial genesis for plants.

Fulvic acid is an amazing molecule that just seems to make things more forgiving in the system. I am doing some testing to see the effects on things like terpenes, but I believe it has a positive impact anecdotally.

GH Floralicous is their Humic acid offering, but then they go and put stuff like kelp in it. Just why. And nitrogen. Again why - I'm already getting that from the green and brown stuff. I'll tell you why - higher levels of N have been shown to add bud mass if continued thru to harvest. Higher N also decreases cannabinoid production. So you get more flower potentially, but less potency. And fulvic is a better molecule than humic for our needs. Skip the floralicious. It may make the buds a tiny bit bigger but you can do the same thing with adding some more gro to the res. Doing this only makes sense if you are going for yield over quality.


Now, time to get you talked into giving the live res a proper go. Think about all the interactions you are getting in the root zone that you would be missing. Stuff the plant has evolved to take advantage of. Stuff we have no real understanding of. But I understand how H2O2 works and how it kills root cells right along with bacteria. I'll pick live every time. And it's not hard at all if you just push thru the learning curve. I'll walk you thru it if you want. This is what proper live system roots look like.

1670631402828
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
It’s a tool. Unnecessary. Can help with less res changes if you just need p and k but don’t want magnesium. I think you want sulphur for terps tho so I tend to just use more pink as needed.
 
Last edited:
PerfecTrader

PerfecTrader

1,743
263
Just gonna throw this out there @Moe.Red
I don't know as much as I'd like but I'm dead set sure you have no clue how wise you are. I love to follow your words because as ignorant as I can't help but feel, if you hang around the barber shop long enough eventually you will get a cut. Thank you for your time and wisdom good sir. It means much
 
Zombierider

Zombierider

1,135
263
Yeah brother all good happy to help. I still haven't scrolled back up, I really need to start from the beginning. Maybe tomorrow over coffee. For now I'll just answer your questions with no knowledge of your situation lol. Forgive me if I miss something obvious that pertains to you or tell you crap you already know.

I ran GH for years up until recently when I switched to Jacks for a bit more control. Started sterile in my RDWCs and switched to live, been playing and tuning res life for years as well now. This was from my last grow

View attachment 1309819

That plant looks a little worn down because he was at the low end of PPM when I was setting up the fogponics. Started with 4 different PPM levels in 4 systems trying to figure out the sweet spot. This one was starving. But the point is if you look at that white stuff on the coco it's mycelium. I like to promote an entire rhizosphere packed with life. Selected properly of course. I start inoculating with good stuff as soon as the seed cracks open. I can't remember the last time I saw root rot IRL.

All you need to finish a grow in RDWC that exceeds most dispensary weed is the 3 part GH, Cal Mag, PH up and down, and the ability to test for PPM and PH reliably. Then pick live or sterile. If you are going sterile, add H2O2 to the list. If live, listen on.

Now that the basics are covered, lets see why this works.

View attachment 1309821

So it mentions chelated several times. Also says EDDHA and EDTA.


I'm giving you tons of stuff to google here, but that link to EDDHA above says its a chelating agent. Spend some time understanding that concept if you want, but it means that the metal ions in this bottle of micro do not require a helper bacteria to make the ion available to the plant for uptake. So this is not organic. Organics are way slower in that they need bacteria to preprocess nutrients into nutrients. Keeping those bacteria alive with carbs is a good idea if you are using them. We are not, and because of chelation we don't need them. To me it makes no sense to run organics in a system built for speed. Leave that stuff to the dirty growers.

FloraGro, FloraMicro and FloraBloom have a well designed balance for cannabis and you really "need" nothing else. But I'll make some recommendations that will take it up a notch.

PH can be an issue. Plants do well with silica in veg and early flower. I use a silica product to buffer the water allowing for a more forgiving system as well as improve the strength of stalks.

Fulvic acid - you had questions on that. I'm currently testing Mr. Fulvic. Fulvic is basically Humic acid only tiny molecules. To me, this is the primary reason I run it:

Phytochemicals​

Phytochemicals have critical functions in plants, playing important roles in growth and defense against pathogens.

Mr.Fulvic has 22 flavonoids — powerful antioxidants that mitigate oxidative damage, reducing environmental stress like temperature fluctuation, drought, sun damage, and inflammation.
They are needed for plants to create vitamins, enzymes, proteins, and biosynthesize additional phytochemicals.
Many phytochemicals function as activators of enzymatic reactions, gene expression, and mitochondrial genesis for plants.

Fulvic acid is an amazing molecule that just seems to make things more forgiving in the system. I am doing some testing to see the effects on things like terpenes, but I believe it has a positive impact anecdotally.

GH Floralicous is their Humic acid offering, but then they go and put stuff like kelp in it. Just why. And nitrogen. Again why - I'm already getting that from the green and brown stuff. I'll tell you why - higher levels of N have been shown to add bud mass if continued thru to harvest. Higher N also decreases cannabinoid production. So you get more flower potentially, but less potency. And fulvic is a better molecule than humic for our needs. Skip the floralicious. It may make the buds a tiny bit bigger but you can do the same thing with adding some more gro to the res. Doing this only makes sense if you are going for yield over quality.


Now, time to get you talked into giving the live res a proper go. Think about all the interactions you are getting in the root zone that you would be missing. Stuff the plant has evolved to take advantage of. Stuff we have no real understanding of. But I understand how H2O2 works and how it kills root cells right along with bacteria. I'll pick live every time. And it's not hard at all if you just push thru the learning curve. I'll walk you thru it if you want. This is what proper live system roots look like.

View attachment 1309842
Whats up, loving the content here its really helpful! Makes me question A LOT about my nutes. Im using GH, calimagic+3 part+ Floralicous Plus, and Koolbloom. Got hella yield, but feel i could be getting more terps if i change it up, and i think replacing the floralicous plus for a fulvic is the ticket. Ive been following the cocoforcannabis gh schedule, but instead of diamond nectar im using some flora p. I was chatting with @Trustfall about fulvic's, and he recommended Ruby Fulvic from New Millenium, for that chelation stuff. Funny you should mention fulvics here literally the next day, its like we are all somehow thinking about the same shit haha.
So here would be my recipe: armor si, calimagic, micro grow bloom, ruby fulvics, and for bloom use AN Big Bud coco instead of Koolbloom. Looking for MAX TERPS dont care about yields cuz its ALL head stash :D.
 
Zombierider

Zombierider

1,135
263
Ok, Yes, now i remember i got the sugars to feed the good bacteria. In hindsight I think i have to agree with you about the bloom in biologics from it, for me the bad ones. I got caught into something about the carbs being needed for healthy biologics, or they will die. but live and learn i guess. I won't be buying anymore of that.

Yeah, i really liked what i saw with mr. fulvic when i first added it, but didn't know if that was only good if running live or not.

So if going sterile, no carbs, no kelp, my other additives include GH Floralicious which to me smells organic, maybe kelp or fish poop. Curious about that one.

Thanks for the help
I just picked up a bottle of hydroguard to start running some living help for my res, though not sure its necessary since i change res every week. Should work well for hydro
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
I just picked up a bottle of hydroguard to start running some living help for my res, though not sure its necessary since i change res every week. Should work well for hydro
Hey bud on mobile atm so I can come back later and explain better with a keyboard but imo skip the hydroguard

D49B72DD 8308 4745 A2D4 291F65C4BEBF

And go for

Orca

21B423F0 D85F 4CD0 A4E3 579E5D3AAACD


Or great white

172F02F0 1613 41AD 9E09 5C1874E6B648


Hydroguard is mostly water and a single strain. Contains no mycelium. When I look at it under the microscope it’s hard to find cells and for me none were moving. It seems like it is not shelf stable but I cannot say that for sure. I just know I get better results with white and orca. I also use max microbe and sometimes use enzymes but not all that much any more. But If running sterile keep a bottle of hygrozyme on the shelf to clean the dead cells off the roots (the red tint) that H2O2 causes.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
So here would be my recipe: armor si, calimagic, micro grow bloom, ruby fulvics, and for bloom use AN Big Bud coco instead of Koolbloom. Looking for MAX TERPS dont care about yields cuz its ALL head stash :D.
Random thoughts.

Cal magic seedlings thru flip is good. After flip I tend to cut way back. Cal and mag are such a weird misunderstood set of nutes. They cause issues often. In the gh 3 part the pink has mag. Brown has a lot of cal (5%). Just be careful not to cause a lockout especially in flower with too much cal magic love.

Sulfur is good for some terps. Pink stuff has sulpher. Adding double pink (5-4) vs KoolBloom (10-10) has always been my go to for added terps. But you are getting more mag that way so stop the cal magic if you find yourself doing this.

I have never been successful helping someone in trouble with AN nutes. And there have been a few. @SweetLeafGrow struggled for quite a while trying to get his system balanced and ended up switching nutes to gh and now he is friggin killing it. I think it’s his 4th grow and looks like a pro. AN is some weird “black box” just put it in and trust us and don’t measure ph or anything kinda nute - I just can’t wrap my head around it and advise steer clear. Seems to me there is enough of a learning curve already no need to make your job harder with mystery bottles.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
If I left something out let me know, I'm feeling pretty good right now 🙃 this won't be too scientific of a grow, no live sensors or ph controllers other than temp/RH. One day I will have that stuff, but until then, this is what I got. Fyi I have no chiller, water was at 82 initially with lights hanging at the lowest setting, now at 78 with lights on. I am relying on bennies and silica for heat stress resistance.
Dude I feel weird starting over on this thread it’s probably all been changed by now but 78 is fine in the res IF you have a strong colony going before you put the plants in and have good oxygenation. That’s ocean temps and the vast majority of plant life on earth is there so it has to be ok.

It takes about 45 days for a full colony to develop. You can watch it happen with aquarium test strips that measure the nitrogen cycle. You will have adequate protection after 30 days. Getting you RDWC system running and inoculated prior to getting seeds wet is the answer. And don’t sterilize between runs unless you are forced to.

I also inoculate seedlings as soon as they pop.

Time is your enemy with a live res until you get it dialed in. Then you can almost forget about it.

The good news is 78 will make your colony grow faster! But if you are not careful it will also make the bad stuff grow faster.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
Ok, I've read conflicting stuff on here but I've decided I'm going to vent this tent directly outside of the window in the same room. Just ordered everything i think I'll need for the job.

Update on plants, they are looking great! Going to do a res change today. Think I'll go to weekly instead of biweekly like last time. I'm trying to step that game up lol

Idk what inspired me but I'm foliar feeding now with a diluted SiperThrive solution. Says it has kelp, I think a PGR, and some vitamins.
I’m still reading and catching up but I’m confused on your setup now. Did you convert to RDWC? Are you pushing air outside your house? Still foliar feeding?
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
UPGRADES!!

Connected all DWC buckets with ID hose.
Added 4" half dome, air stones to each bucket, manufacturer recommendation of 4-8watts of air pump power per stone. They are big stones!!!
Replaced 15w 8-way air pump with a 60w air pump, really not that loud as i thought it would be.

Added ph Controller. (cheapest one on amazon, i got it for $100 but it's on sale now for $50)
Soldered a DIY peristaltic pump (saved me $$, a DIY pump is around $10 on amazon, the dc power source, $1.
Painted my pH down jug black, to block light.

Been busy today. connected what were individual dwc buckets together, with one additional one. I will add 3 more to this pool when this grow is over, basically doubling the total reservoir for next time(4 plants, 8 buckets). This will allow their resources to be shared, which will make it a lot easier on me. i now have only one pH to check, one EC to check, even though i've been over-confident lately, and i know i haven't even checked the ph on any of them in over 3 weeks.

Attention to Cheap pH controller: Yes, I am aware that it is not a Blue lab model. And that this one has reviews that people claim it's inaccurate. Well to that I say this, I calibrated the ph probe with 2 reference solutions about 3-4 months ago when i got and didn't have anywhere to put it yet. Took it out today, went to recalibrate it, and it was right on the god damn money!! So Hah! lol
Regardless, I kind of like it's manual screw adjustments, and i will test it bi-weekly i think. I wish it had EC in ppm, but it does not. I don't like the ms/cm scale, and the us/cm scale tops out too low, but hey, i'm not complaining. I can do some math, or have google convert it for me.
So the 2.5 ms/cm converts to 1250 ppm on the common 500 scale.

What i need now is an easier way to check the water level on the external bucket. i really don't want to drill another hole in the bucket for a fill check hose.
FYI, the lid is off the bucket just for the video.
View attachment 1304654
I'm sure i'm overlooking some easy way that i can check the level without opening the lid, can anyone help? lol


Man I’m really confused on your plumbing. Can you help me understand it?
 
ninjadip

ninjadip

1,268
263
Man I’m really confused on your plumbing. Can you help me understand it?
The current plumbing is a bit adhoc, but here are the blueprints for next run. 9 buckets at roughly 4 gallons, gives me 36 total or near 9 gallons for each plant. Already have the buckets and no room externally to place a res. Figured this is still better than individual dwc, and it saves me so so so much work having them connected. I should have used bigger pipes, like bulkheads by I had zero confidence in my plumbing know how initially. I asked you once for some help but your help was still too advanced for me to understand what you were talking about. Now that I got my hands wet I have a better understanding about your earlier advice.

Ph controller is working well. After that learning curve as well
 
PXL 20221208 234917320
ninjadip

ninjadip

1,268
263
I’m still reading and catching up but I’m confused on your setup now. Did you convert to RDWC? Are you pushing air outside your house? Still foliar feeding?
Yes I converted to rwdc at a point where I was pulling my hair out trying to get them to turn around before it would be too late to save. Yes, I'm pushing air outside, if I remember right, you don't like that, but doing that I am finally able to have a hold on what temps I want. My HVAC doesn't even come on during the day if I'm home, very well insulated in here on bottom floor of apartment building.

No more foliar feeding, it's been two weeks I think. In bloom I did a couple foliar "feeds" not sure what to call them, there aren't any nutes in them. I sprayed them with fulvic acid, I can't remember where but I read somewhere that fulvics are great for foliar and humics were good for the root system. I also always mix a little yucca in my spray.

And you're confused with my setup because it's a mess that will all be straightened out before the start of next run
 
ninjadip

ninjadip

1,268
263
Sorry @Moe.Red I just got on today. I think I answered your questions.

I'm still playing with the idea of going sterile in my head. You said you have run both types of systems and now do live. Were there any differences with quality or the grow in general between the two types?

For sterile I've thought about a drip of h202 that would be calculated to put out the necessary amount instead of having to add it every 3-7 days. How did you do yours
 
ninjadip

ninjadip

1,268
263
Yeah man I'll be back tonight. Got some stuff to take care of today.
i know us farmers put a lot of demand on you lol thanks for always helpin tho

so i believe i am one of the only ones on here that uses GH FloraNova over the 3 part. I was just looking up what the differences might be between them but they are nearly identical when you combine the ingredients of the floramicro w/ florabloom to the one part Floranova Bloom. I do find it interesting, while i was rummaging around the GH website, i saw that they classify what i'm using FloraNova series as a hybrid. I did not know that. I wonder if that is where the distinguishing difference lies. I'm assuming that the 3-part is 0% organic?

1670696352699
 
Zombierider

Zombierider

1,135
263
Hey bud on mobile atm so I can come back later and explain better with a keyboard but imo skip the hydroguard

View attachment 1309962
And go for

Orca

View attachment 1309963

Or great white

View attachment 1309964

Hydroguard is mostly water and a single strain. Contains no mycelium. When I look at it under the microscope it’s hard to find cells and for me none were moving. It seems like it is not shelf stable but I cannot say that for sure. I just know I get better results with white and orca. I also use max microbe and sometimes use enzymes but not all that much any more. But If running sterile keep a bottle of hygrozyme on the shelf to clean the dead cells off the roots (the red tint) that H2O2 causes.
Firstly: I greatly appreciate the help/insight, there is so much BS online about growing and nutrients, it's awesome to see someone knowledgeable keepin it real and helping us noobs! But yeah, thats crazy the number of mycorrhizae and bacteria in GW, no wonder it works better than Hydroguard's one species, returning the bottle of Hydroguard today, and thankfully have some Great White already.
I haven't been tending to my res either sterile or living aside from managing PH, as I change out my res every 5-7 days, so I assume not enough time for bacteria to take over? I have noticed that when inspecting the rootball of my past harvests, the roots are not pure white, but kinda brownish/reddish. I assumed this was from the Micro, but maybe this is some bad stuff taking over, aka I should probably use GW or Orca.

Random thoughts.

Cal magic seedlings thru flip is good. After flip I tend to cut way back. Cal and mag are such a weird misunderstood set of nutes. They cause issues often. In the gh 3 part the pink has mag. Brown has a lot of cal (5%). Just be careful not to cause a lockout especially in flower with too much cal magic love.

Sulfur is good for some terps. Pink stuff has sulpher. Adding double pink (5-4) vs KoolBloom (10-10) has always been my go to for added terps. But you are getting more mag that way so stop the cal magic if you find yourself doing this.

I have never been successful helping someone in trouble with AN nutes. And there have been a few. @SweetLeafGrow struggled for quite a while trying to get his system balanced and ended up switching nutes to gh and now he is friggin killing it. I think it’s his 4th grow and looks like a pro. AN is some weird “black box” just put it in and trust us and don’t measure ph or anything kinda nute - I just can’t wrap my head around it and advise steer clear. Seems to me there is enough of a learning curve already no need to make your job harder with mystery bottles.
Quite interesting about the bloom boosters. So, if I were to use double servings of pink from pistils-flush, instead of koolbloom, I could get the same or better results as using a bloom booster? Mind=Blown.
As for calmag, I'm using 40ish ppm well water, so I've been adding about 3.5ml/gal in veg, and 2-1.5ml/gal in flower. Would you still run no calmag with double pink in 40ppm water?

One more idea to pick from your brain: what about the Floralicous Plus vs the Fulvic acids, you think I should nix the Flora P in flower, and maybe just run it in veg? The Mr Fulvic looks like a cool product, might just try it out for shihts and giggles as the fulvic for flower period, and if its good, for the whole run.
Thanks a fk ton!!
 
Top Bottom