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Even farmhouse and sour beers are inoculated with cultured yeasts nowadays, there are very few breweries that don't inoculate. Even the ones that open ferment. Open fermentation is done to reduce the pressure in the vessel more than anything. They're dosed with yeast and the Krausen will prevent any wild yeast from even getting in. Also the open fermenters some breweries use are in very well sealed, very clean environments. Most of the breweries who still open ferment without inoculation are Belgian trappist breweries using fermenting rooms that are centuries old and well developed. But even most of those have converted to inoculation for repeatability.
This is what my buddy uses for farmhouse ales. Its also what breweries use.
Strain: 3726 for Farmhouse Ale | Yeast & Cultures by Wyeast Labs
This strain produces complex esters balanced with earthy/spicy notes. Slightly tart and dry with a peppery finish. A perfect strain for farmhouse ales and saisons. This Wyeast yeast strain has been classified as Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus using rapid PCR analysis. This strain...wyeastlab.com
Out here in boonies Pennsylvania, we've got a few breweries (a couple who are close friends) who do open with no inoculation... they'll just brett bomb them if they happen to contaminate and it still makes for an alright drink... think of the Flanders red iron/blood taste.
I've heard it's something to do with, like in Belgium, France, etc., all the orchards and the old ass houses creating a microbiome within themselves.
I agree 100% I dont feel there is an absolute need to do so. Even the microbes that are not nutrients processing. Its personal preference and the cost on some is ridiculous.Here is another way to frame this. Take Beauveria bassiana for example. Its a naturally occurring fungi found in soils all over the world.
Concentrate it and call it a microbial innoculant and you have Botanigard 22wp.
Take naturally occuring Trichoderma harzianum strain T-22, and Trichoderma virens strain G-41, put them together and what do you get? Rootshield plus, probably the number one biopesticide for pythium prevention.
Just because it can form naturally doesn't mean its going to do anywhere near the same thing as a concentrated innoculant.
As for the nutrient cycling bacteria, I concede that those occur naturally if food is present and conditions are correct. But in some instances I still see an advantage to using innoculants for those.
This is why I treasure you guyses.Here is another way to frame this. Take Beauveria bassiana for example. Its a naturally occurring fungi found in soils all over the world.
Concentrate it and call it a microbial innoculant and you have Botanigard 22wp.
Take naturally occuring Trichoderma harzianum strain T-22, and Trichoderma virens strain G-41, put them together and what do you get? Rootshield plus, probably the number one biopesticide for pythium prevention.
Just because it can form naturally doesn't mean its going to do anywhere near the same thing as a concentrated innoculant.
As for the nutrient cycling bacteria, I concede that those occur naturally if food is present and conditions are correct. But honestly using compost or worm compost IS innoculating them with microbes, so you cant really say they just appear out of thin air. And in some instances I still see an advantage to using innoculants, for example if you aren't using a lot of vermi/compost.
This is why I treasure you guyses.
I catch trich in my mushroom substrate > add it to my soil > plants seem to boom > I think, 'oh, I've got the good trich.'
End of "logic"
I would argue that Mycorrhizae is a good candidate for targeted inoculation because the various fungal species are specific to the host plant or at least the family of host plant. Where as other bacteria and fungi in the rhizosphere don't care what crop you are growing.
I would argue that Mycorrhizae is a good candidate for targeted inoculation because the various fungal species are specific to the host plant or at least the family of host plant. Where as other bacteria and fungi in the rhizosphere don't care what crop you are growing.
Another fair point of scrutiny.Most of the trichodermas are somewhat benificial to plants, but some are extremely beneficial.
How are you identifying that its even trich you have?
Another fair point of scrutiny.
Only through referencing identification guides/texts to distinguish cultural markers... I have thrown them under a high school microscope, but I have never bothered with the effort/expense of having any kind of sequencing, etc. to assuredly identify.
Let's just say I've got a pretty keen eye distinguishing between aspergillus, penicillium, and trichoderma.. on a macro observation level.
Yeah... sometimes I forget to make the distinction between science and science fiction...Lol honestly sounds pretty impressive dude. I mean the stuff I pay $22 for a little bag of is made by some guy in a lab with Petrie dishs so its possible you got trich too lol. But yeah they all act differently, and some work a lot better than others.
That sounds neat what you got going on there though. My wife is just getting into mycology and I think we're gonna poke our first jar of oats with some blue meanie juice in a few weeks.
Yeah... sometimes I forget to make the distinction between science and science fiction...
I always expect labs to be these crazy clean rooms with flashing lights and buttons and tubes and isolation chambers with warning/biohazard labels on everything...
But I see some of them and it's nothing much more than a still air environment, propane torch, autoclave, and candied malt in plastic dishes...
That's awesome and exciting!
It really doesn't take too much in the way of sophisticated instruments.
I think the most specialized piece of equipment is a pressure cooker... which makes my point.
Feel free to pique my brain on it... I'm not the best around, but I've got the basics on lock.
Pressure cooker absolutely a must bro!Ok my first question is, is the pressure canner/cooker absolutely necessary? My wife is insisting that she read somewhere that just boil canning the pft or oats will work. Im pushing to get a pressure vessel of some sort. It seems like a lot of work to be taking chances.
Yeah... the only situation I would say it's okay to 'sterilize' under normal atmospheric pressure is if you use the PF Tek with 1/2 pint jars, brown rice flour, and vermiculite. And that method is basically just a lot more of a crap shoot because you're not reducing the microbe population nearly as much as with pressurized sterilization.Ok my first question is, is the pressure canner/cooker absolutely necessary? My wife is insisting that she read somewhere that just boil canning the pft or oats will work. Im pushing to get a pressure vessel of some sort. It seems like a lot of work to be taking chances.
Yeah... the only situation I would say it's okay to 'sterilize' under normal atmospheric pressure is if you use the PF Tek with 1/2 pint jars, brown rice flour, and vermiculite. And that method is basically just a lot more of a crap shoot because you're not reducing the microbe population nearly as much as with pressurized sterilization.
I'd say it's practically impossible if you're using whole grains.
A Presto 23 quart should only run you ~$60 USD and will do everything you need.
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