Do you think this will finish okay?

[BigBlonde]

not playing the blonde card ?

Would it help?

 

[BigBlonde]

As promised, here's a picture of the plants. Disregard the one in the middle. The left and right plant sprouted the same day and were planted at the same time, in the same mix of soil. They have received the same nutrients and were watered on the same schedule. I pretty much pruned and defoliated the same, too. Nevertheless, they're very different in size. The one on the left is much wider and is sitting on a box. They have been very different from the beginning. I know some difference is normal, but that seems like a lot of difference. The one on the left has the newer light and is closer to the humidifier.

 

[Anthem]

I have had nutrient problems from the beginning of this grow. I think it's because I wasn't familiar with the FF Happy Frog soil. I didn't realize that it doesn't have much in the way of nutrients out of the bag. As a result, I have not been feeding the plants well enough. I saw signs of calcium deficiency before I flipped, but didn't do anything about it at the time. For my next grow, I'm planning to use Ocean Forest soil. Meanwhile, I hope to finish this grow with a reasonable crop.


I have followed the FF feeding chart, using nutrients at the recommended amount. I also began adding FF Bush Doctor Cal-Mag during the first week of flower. Thinking that it probably is a calcium deficiency, I doubled the dose of Cal-Mag at the last feeding a few days ago. I'll return to the standard dose for the next feeding.

Big Bloom (0 - 0.5 - 0.7)	15 ml
Tiger Bloom (2 - 8 - 4)	5 ml
Bush Doctor Cal-Mag (1 - 0 - 0)	5 ml

You are actually a little low on Nitrogen but that is just part of your problem, but there is more. If you take a look at the overall values for this mix based on the percentages and mils. You are at a total of 3-9.5-6.1. The real problem is the K is low, that is a potassium deficiency burning up the leaves. I looked up Athena Pro for an example. It is 8.4-12-24. Do you have any other cannabis specific nutrients on hand? Increasing the Cal Mag is a way of increasing the nitrogen in the mix because it appears the form of calcium being used in the cal mag is Calcium Nitrate. But that also has Magnesium in it which is antagonistic with Potassium, so increasing Cal Mag is not a good idea. You need to add some additional Nitrogen for a few weeks and Potassium for the remainder of the grow. I looked thru the Fox Farm Nutrient Line and I am not seeing anything that will do that for you. I do not like doing this but it will help. Can you get a quart of General Hydroponics Flora Grow. It is 2-1-6. I am think to add about 5 mils of that to the solution and it will get you in a much better place. Around 5-10.5-12.1. Still a little low on Potassium but better. If the problem continues you will need to increase the Flora Grow by a couple mills but that should work.

Now I can see why people struggle with Fox Farms nutrients. Their numbers do not really work. In the future if you want to do it simple stupid I would just go with the General Hydroponics 3 part Flora and follow the directions. In soil I would do like this. In veg Feed-Water-Feed-Water. Same for Bloom but week 4-6 you can do this Feed-Feed-Water-Feed-Water-Feed-Feed-Water-Feed-Water.

I am pretty confident you can get to the end with this information.

 

[GrilledCheeze]

You did a great job training the plant on the left. It's not uncommon at all to see lots of variability when growing from seed. It's probably less common to actually see the same phenotype expressions if sprouting only a few seeds at a time. It can be annoying for sure.

The first chart below shows your issue may be due to excess potassium which should start to work itself out shortly based on your growth stage in the second chart. I went heavy on my PK boost on my previous grow and had issues that were similar, only a little more severe... The plants finished and turned out ok. I am now monitoring my nutrient solution more closely and finding that I can hit target numbers with much less amendments than I used to think was necessary.

Looking at these two plants side by side they appear to have similar symptoms.

 

[BigBlonde]

If your leaf surface temperature is 71F or above you should be good on your environmental conditions. In my tent the leaf surface temp sits around 8 degrees lower than my ambient temperature but that will be different for everyone.

I can measure leaf temperatures. They're hovering around 70F. Some a little lower, some a little higher. The ambient temperature is about 76F, so I'm close to your range.

I guess for the nutrients I don't have all the information. In your OP you stated you were following the recommended schedule with the addition of cal mag and bush doctor in flowering? You didn't have any issues until you made the flip?

There were some yellowing leaves with brown spots. The burnt tips on the left plant got worse after the flip. This can be confusing, because leaves do turn yellow and die during flowering. I probably should have alerted on the brown spots, though.

The reason I suggested overfertilization, other than what I stated previously, is that people usually push the TDS in flower until you see a slight tip burn. What you are showing here looks like excessive tip burn with additional leaf necrosis indicating to me that the problem has amplified. That's also why I asked about your environmental conditions because if you're pushing the plants in that regard then the problem will be exacerbated. If you can't test the strength of your nutrient solution then it's difficult to rule out definitively.

I don't have enough experience to push the conditions. My main goal is to get through this grow and have something so smoke when I'm done. I'll continue to work on the finer points in future grows. My first crop fell victim to spider mites, so this is my first time in the flower to finish phase.

I have seen TDS & EC meters for sale, but so far, I have considered those to be more useful for people who aren't growing is soil.

Your description of "excessive tip burn with additional leaf necrosis" sure sounds right. My main question now is how to finish this crop.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

Would it help?

will allow it sure

 

[BigBlonde]

The real problem is the K is low, that is a potassium deficiency burning up the leaves.

The first chart below shows your issue may be due to excess potassium which should start to work itself out shortly based on your growth stage in the second chart.

It's time for lunch.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

You need to add some additional Nitrogen for a few weeks and Potassium for the remainder of the grow. I looked thru the Fox Farm Nutrient Line and I am not seeing anything that will do that for you. I do not like doing this but it will help. Can you get a quart of General Hydroponics Flora Grow. It is 2-1-6. I am think to add about 5 mils of that to the solution and it will get you in a much better place. Around 5-10.5-12.1.

 

[GrilledCheeze]

It's time for lunch.

I'm sticking to my story but I very well could be wrong. Either way I think we have it narrowed to a potassium issue and you can use a little more nitrogen. Enjoy your lunch!

 

[BigBlonde]

I'm sticking to my story but I very well could be wrong. Either way I think we have it narrowed to a potassium issue and you can use a little more nitrogen. Enjoy your lunch!

I'm just a bit overwhelmed.

One of the problems I have is that we live a long way from civilization. There are people here, but they aren't civilized. That means it can take a week or more to get nutrients. They'll need to be watered in a day or two or three. I won't be able to get anything before then.

Potassium does seem to be an issue. The charts say to increase it and I've been doing it. I can certainly keep using it.

I can also increase the nitrogen. I have some CleanKelp fertilizer that tends to green up plants quickly. So a small dose of that might help. It doesn't have an NPK rating, though. So, if not that, I have FF Grow Big available.

I suspect the light intensity might be an issue, as well. Decreasing the light level, which I've already done, should at least help reduce the stress on the plants.

 

[GrilledCheeze]

I'm just a bit overwhelmed.

One of the problems I have is that we live a long way from civilization. There are people here, but they aren't civilized. That means it can take a week or more to get nutrients. They'll need to be watered in a day or two or three. I won't be able to get anything before then.

Potassium does seem to be an issue. The charts say to increase it and I've been doing it. I can certainly keep using it.

I can also increase the nitrogen. I have some CleanKelp fertilizer that tends to green up plants quickly. So a small dose of that might help. It doesn't have an NPK rating, though. So, if not that, I have FF Grow Big available.

I suspect the light intensity might be an issue, as well. Decreasing the light level, which I've already done, should at least help reduce the stress on the plants.

Here is some additional reading that I hope can help. I'm a horrible photographer so I apologize for the image quality.

 

[GrilledCheeze]

One more piece of evidence to support my claim of too much potassium and I'm done. You can see from Mulder's Chart that an increase in potassium reduces the availability of nitrogen to the plant. That helps to explain the nitrogen issue. I'm going to say stop feeding with bloom booster for a week or two and your plants should be fine.

 

[Moshmen]

I’m my opinion there’s a little bit of each poster that is correct - a true combination of things probably started y lock out of some sort - sounds like your on the right path and will do better ur next grow !

 

[Mikedin]

You did a great job training the plant on the left. It's not uncommon at all to see lots of variability when growing from seed. It's probably less common to actually see the same phenotype expressions if sprouting only a few seeds at a time. It can be annoying for sure.

The first chart below shows your issue may be due to excess potassium which should start to work itself out shortly based on your growth stage in the second chart. I went heavy on my PK boost on my previous grow and had issues that were similar, only a little more severe... The plants finished and turned out ok. I am now monitoring my nutrient solution more closely and finding that I can hit target numbers with much less amendments than I used to think was necessary.
View attachment 1323077
Looking at these two plants side by side they appear to have similar symptoms.

Those are 2 great charts I’ve never seen the bottom one before will defenitly be saving it!

 

[GNick55]

just a note..
you see the plant in the middle the small one, it’s leaves are flat, the way it’s suppose to be and guessing not going yellow and not praying like the other two closet to the light.,
just saying..

 

[Anthem]

One more piece of evidence to support my claim of too much potassium and I'm done. You can see from Mulder's Chart that an increase in potassium reduces the availability of nitrogen to the plant. That helps to explain the nitrogen issue. I'm going to say stop feeding with bloom booster for a week or two and your plants should be fine.

The N is too low to being with. It will not be antagonistic with K unless it is used in higher amounts. N being low is part of the problem not N being too high.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

I'm going to say stop feeding with bloom booster for a week or two and your plants should be fine.

and only water or mix in some n not sure what we are going for here

 

[BigBlonde]

Well... I turned the lights down first thing today. So, I'll can watch for a few days to see if the plants improve. The next watering is a day or two away, so I'll also be thinking about what else to do. Maybe the lower light level will make a difference by then and help decide.

 

[GrilledCheeze]

The N is too low to being with. It will not be antagonistic with K unless it is used in higher amounts. N being low is part of the problem not N being too high.

My hypothesis is that there is an excess of potassium in the root zone and that is the primary concern. The nitrogen deficiency is a secondary, agnostic condition caused by the excess potassium, based on Mulder's Chart. I believe the PK boost was given prematurely and that led to a salt buildup in the root zone and the symptoms should stop progressing with reduced lighting and feed with a low potassium solution over the next week or so. I'm not trying to win an argument, just to solve a problem. I'm also very open to being incorrect provided logical reasoning. I'm here to learn like everyone else.

 

[BigBlonde]

Here's a picture taken after watering this morning. They've had a full day of lights set to 118 watts, which is down from 134. That's 29.5 watts per square foot. I added some CleanKelp to the water and there was a little of the previous feed left, so I used that, too. I watered to about a pint of runoff.

I can't tell if they look better or worse than they did yesterday. We could see that the buds are still growing well. I saw a few amber pistils.

We'll watch them throughout the day to see if there are any changes.