Do you think this will finish okay?

BigBlonde · Jan 28, 2023

biggerbud420 said:
i dont think thats it i have 600 watts in my 4x4 and had no problems
even if u had too much wattage u could turn the light down

Right. I have too much wattage so I turn the lights down.

biggerbud420 · Jan 28, 2023

BigBlonde said:
Right. I have too much wattage so I turn the lights down.

how tall is your tallest plant
and did you top

GNick55 · Jan 28, 2023

biggerbud420 said:
damn bro no dairy gueen near

haha yes, tonight was chicken strips from wendy’s - closest to me and open.,

BigBlonde · Jan 28, 2023

biggerbud420 said:
how tall is your tallest plant
and did you top

I can't measure now. They're asleep. I have about 18-20 inches between the light and the top of the plant.

Yes. I topped them.

Moe.Red · Jan 28, 2023

Man this thread got weird. I blame the drugs

I love that folks at the farm are so willing to help. That can also be a bit of a curse for the new grower.

I personally backed off because I am not a soil grower at all. I’m well acquainted with the plant but soil is just plain different. Sure I absolutely have ideas on what to do but without direct experience I’m just another voice with ideas and you already have that in spades.

Please don’t take that as me leaving in a huff. If others do that’s on them. You can’t possibly take everyone’s advice here because a lot is a direct contradiction!

Don’t forget about the middle one that is doing ok. Hopefully with what you are learning that one can finish off nicely.

In terms of led intensity vs height, either will work. Light intensity measured in ppfd follows the inverse square function in that ppfd drops squared for every unit of measure you back them off. So from a ppfd standpoint the choice to turn the dial or shorten rope comes down to heat. If you need more heat you raise lights. If not turn the knob. The only caveat is that you will get better more even coverage from higher wattage hung higher due to geometry.

Moshmen · Jan 28, 2023

Moe.Red said:
Man this thread got weird. I blame the drugs

I love that folks at the farm are so willing to help. That can also be a bit of a curse for the new grower.

I personally backed off because I am not a soil grower at all. I’m well acquainted with the plant but soil is just plain different. Sure I absolutely have ideas on what to do but without direct experience I’m just another voice with ideas and you already have that in spades.

Please don’t take that as me leaving in a huff. If others do that’s on them. You can’t possibly take everyone’s advice here because a lot is a direct contradiction!

Don’t forget about the middle one that is doing ok. Hopefully with what you are learning that one can finish off nicely.

In terms of led intensity vs height, either will work. Light intensity measured in ppfd follows the inverse square function in that ppfd drops squared for every unit of measure you back them off. So from a ppfd standpoint the choice to turn the dial or shorten rope comes down to heat. If you need more heat you raise lights. If not turn the knob. The only caveat is that you will get better more even coverage from higher wattage hung higher due to geometry.

Def turned somewhere! Lol bout Wednesday

BigBlonde · Jan 28, 2023

Moe.Red said:
Man this thread got weird. I blame the drugs

It sure did and I don't know why. Many threads have divergent opinions and no one flounces.

Moe.Red said:
I love that folks at the farm are so willing to help. That can also be a bit of a curse for the new grower.

They are indeed. This is a wonderful resource. There was a lot of information presented and the situation is complicated.

Moe.Red said:
I personally backed off because I am not a soil grower at all. I’m well acquainted with the plant but soil is just plain different. Sure I absolutely have ideas on what to do but without direct experience I’m just another voice with ideas and you already have that in spades.

Please don’t take that as me leaving in a huff. If others do that’s on them. You can’t possibly take everyone’s advice here because a lot is a direct contradiction!

No worries. It was odd that I was accused of not following anyone's advice while I was following yours about the VPD and I also followed @GNick55's about the light intensity. At the top of the first page, he said to reduce the light intensity--and I did so.

I'm sure there are nutrient problems, as well. I'm still thinking about the low soil pH, but I don't know how much of a problem it is. I know calcium and other nutrients work best within a narrow pH range, so that could be part of the problem.

Moe.Red said:
Don’t forget about the middle one that is doing ok. Hopefully with what you are learning that one can finish off nicely.

That one has a story of it's own. It had a terrible beginning, but at some point it began to thrive. It probably will finish after the others, so when they're harvested, I'll be able to give it better care.

Moe.Red said:
In terms of led intensity vs height, either will work. Light intensity measured in ppfd follows the inverse square function in that ppfd drops squared for every unit of measure you back them off. So from a ppfd standpoint the choice to turn the dial or shorten rope comes down to heat. If you need more heat you raise lights. If not turn the knob. The only caveat is that you will get better more even coverage from higher wattage hung higher due to geometry.

I was familiar with the inverse square rule long before I started growing under lights. I'm seriously considering using just one light for the next grow. That's what ViparSpectra recommends for that light model in that size of tent. I'm sure there was light stress.

The lights come on in two hours, so I'll get a picture after they've had some time to wake up.

BigBlonde · Jan 28, 2023

Moshmen said:
Def turned somewhere! Lol bout Wednesday

Two things caused the flounce, I think: There was the Tuesday argument about potassium deficiency or excess that got two people angry. About that time, I also let it be known that I'm female. It feels like the anger from the disagreement was eventually turned toward me, even though I wasn't involved in the argument.

Several people recommended following the advice of only one person. How the heck could anyone do that? There were multiple problems: The light intensity, the VPD, the soil, the nutrients, the watering, etc. For those problems, there can't be only one solution.

Experts argue while the novice is just trying to stay in the conversation.

After all is said and done, I just want to be able to smoke this weed.

GrilledCheeze · Jan 28, 2023

I did my best to steer clear of the arguing part. I stated what I thought to be the problem based on observation, reference, and experience which led to multiple people talking down and making negative comments. I never tried to come off as being from a place of higher knowledge. I hope you were able to get more out of this than I was and I wish you the best in finishing this up and on your future grows!

Moe.Red · Jan 28, 2023

BigBlonde said:
There were multiple problems: The light intensity, the VPD, the soil, the nutrients, the watering, etc. For those problems, there can't be only one solution.

The problem is that these things are interrelated. Changing one thing impacts the others. Doing things in the right order at the right times matters both diagnostically and to return the plant to health.

In the operating room you want 1 doctor in charge. Someone you trust that has done this many times before and proven successful. At least that's me. Even of they do not explain all the permutations of what will happen if I do this and that happens, the hope is they have that map in mind. I guess I am beating a dead horse at this point. Hoping for a full recovery and a great harvest.

BigBlonde · Jan 28, 2023

GrilledCheeze said:
I did my best to steer clear of the arguing part. I stated what I thought to be the problem based on observation, reference, and experience which led to multiple people talking down and making negative comments. I never tried to come off as being from a place of higher knowledge. I hope you were able to get more out of this than I was and I wish you the best in finishing this up and on your future grows!

No problem. Thanks.

This is a hard situation to diagnose. That much is certain.

BigBlonde · Jan 28, 2023

Moe.Red said:
The problem is that these things are interrelated. Changing one thing impacts the others. Doing things in the right order at the right times matters both diagnostically and to return the plant to health.

Definitely! I see how some folks change several things at once and thus may never know what change caused what effect. I try not to do that.

I think lowering the light level and adjusting the VPD were two positive steps. I'll also use @GNick55's feeding recommendation. I'm still pondering the low soil pH.

The plants wake up in an hour. I take a picture then and post it.

Nicc · Jan 28, 2023

Anthem said:
I do not see that as light burn or Calcium def. The fox farms nut line up has something to do with this. I have never looked at that brand but I have seen people multiple times with problems such as yours using that line. What are you feed of each bottle and how often?

I have my lights 10 cm away, and with LEDs they don't burn.

BigBlonde · Jan 28, 2023

Nicc said:
I have my lights 10 cm away, and with LEDs they don't burn.

My thinking is that the health of the plant affects how much light (or nutrients or water) the plant can use. We had more than one issue here. I'm pretty sure the two lights in the tent I'm using is more light than the plants can use.

Moe.Red · Jan 28, 2023

BigBlonde said:
Definitely! I see how some folks change several things at once and thus may never know what change caused what effect. I try not to do that.

I think lowering the light level and adjusting the VPD were two positive steps. I'll also use @GNick55's feeding recommendation. I'm still pondering the low soil pH.

The plants wake up in an hour. I take a picture then and post it.

Here is why I stay in my lane on feeding and PHing soil based grows:

Cation Exchange Capacity <-- link

Cation-exchange capacity (CEC) is a measure of how many cations can be retained on soil particle surfaces.[1] Negative charges on the surfaces of soil particles bind positively-charged atoms or molecules (cations), but allow these to exchange with other positively charged particles in the surrounding soil water.[2] This is one of the ways that solid materials in soil alter the chemistry of the soil. CEC affects many aspects of soil chemistry, and is used as a measure of soil fertility, as it indicates the capacity of the soil to retain several nutrients (e.g. K+, NH4+, Ca2+) in plant-available form. It also indicates the capacity to retain pollutant cations (e.g. Pb2+).

CEC is a soil only phenomenon and makes the feeding and PHing completely different. We do not have CEC to contend with in hydro.

So, at a PH of 5, you are not taking up most nutrients. But I have zero experience here. My hydro chart does not look like yours, my preferred PH is 5.8.

Hopefully that helps with the background if it is not a direct answer. @Aqua Man correct me if I am wrong there.

Fromunda506 · Jan 28, 2023

I’ll jump in late here and take a stab. I’m high af, so take it with a grain of salt. Someone may have already suggested this at some point. I turned out about halfway through reading this thread, when it got acrimonious and skipped to the end part. This is how I would analyze this for what it’s worth…
This started at the top of your plants. That tells you something. Hunger for nitrogen and potassium, both of which are mobile elements, typically present on lower or shaded leaves. Things that show up at the top of the plants are deficiencies in immobile elements (like ca), but light burn and lockoutout from excess salts or something else are still candidates. I don’t care what media you start with, most manufacturers feed schedules are extremely aggressive. Doing a slurry of your soil and checking the pH and EC/ppm of the slurry will let you know fo sho whether they are getting too much or not enough nutrition. Live soil is a different ballgame, but this works well for bottled nutes. My suspicion is you will find nutrient build up, but maybe not. If everything looks pretty good in your root zone, I would focus on the lighting. I would also ignore the manufacturers recommendations on your lights. Modern LEDs in tents can be like a toaster oven. even if the issue is somewhere else, and you have gotten it back on track, reducing your light intensity a bit is like the taking two aspirin and getting a good nights rest of growing weed imo. Just like us, when they’re not feeling the best, they don’t like to work as hard. I’m sure others have a million different opinions, but this is how I would work through it. Good luck. Keep learning. Cheers.

Moe.Red · Jan 28, 2023

BigBlonde said:
The plants wake up in an hour. I take a picture then and post it.

Hopefully you see something approaching this as the day goes on.

Turgidity is the response of a properly respiring plant, and you should start seeing leaves get firmer less droopy. Although if they are burnt to a crisp don't expect much change.

Fromunda506 · Jan 28, 2023

… and I never understand what it is about cannabis growing forums that gets everyone so pissed off. I grew bonsai trees for years and belonged to forums. Amazingly, I can’t remember one thread going this direction. “That black pine looks like trash, probably comes from a shit breeder too…” lol. It seems like people who grow weed are oddly tightly wound about growing weed and others who grow weed. Need to consume more and chill… that’s the whole point of this adventure, yes?

BigBlonde · Jan 28, 2023

As promised... These pictures were taken about 10 minutes after the lights came on. It looks to use like there's slightly more green where the leaves are still alive.

Left plant, side view:

Right plant, side view:

Moe.Red · Jan 28, 2023

Fromunda506 said:
… and I never understand what it is about cannabis growing forums that gets everyone so pissed off.

It’s a real thing.

Many posters have multiple personalities based on the substances consumed that day too. I can tell when certain people mix Jack daniels with their wacky tabacky.

It’s hard to be a mean stoner, some people still pull it off tho.

Do you think this will finish okay?

Do you think this will finish okay?

BigBlonde

biggerbud420

GNick55

BigBlonde

Moe.Red

Moshmen

BigBlonde

BigBlonde

GrilledCheeze

Moe.Red

BigBlonde

BigBlonde

Nicc

BigBlonde

Moe.Red

Fromunda506

Moe.Red

Fromunda506

BigBlonde

Moe.Red

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