Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

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We Solidarity

We Solidarity

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@Aladeen OG if you're using a tea you're already giving your plants a huge boost in harpin proteins...I haven't noticed a difference with or without them I'm pretty sure their only purpose is to boost the plant's SAR which already happens with tea and/or a good environment...

edit to add @UNITEDGROOVES and everyone else I just sent away eight samples. three infected samples, three healthy samples from the same batch, a control sample, and an infected sample from the crown of the root. the strains being tested are both strains I or a friend started from seed and have not been circulated, and samples were taken from the stem, leaf, and a slice from the main trunk near the crown.

Took a while to get the test I wanted...all sorts of people want to charge for one test or another, I got together with some scientists working with hemp who are going to do full DNA sequencing on each sample, so instead of testing for a handful of organisms we'll be getting charts back listing what each strand of DNA sequenced belonged to. Next round of tests will all be soil and tea tests, really excited for those but still a month or so out.
 
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Capulator

Capulator

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We Solidarity said:
@Aladeen OG if you're using a tea you're already giving your plants a huge boost in harpin proteins...I haven't noticed a difference with or without them I'm pretty sure their only purpose is to boost the plant's SAR which already happens with tea and/or a good environment...

edit to add @UNITEDGROOVES and everyone else I just sent away eight samples. three infected samples, three healthy samples from the same batch, a control sample, and an infected sample from the crown of the root. the strains being tested are both strains I or a friend started from seed and have not been circulated, and samples were taken from the stem, leaf, and a slice from the main trunk near the crown.

Took a while to get the test I wanted...all sorts of people want to charge for one test or another, I got together with some scientists working with hemp who are going to do full DNA sequencing on each sample, so instead of testing for a handful of organisms we'll be getting charts back listing what each strand of DNA sequenced belonged to. Next round of tests will all be soil and tea tests, really excited for those but still a month or so out.
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damn. nice one buddy.
 
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ilaughlast

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yeah i just looked into to it too. its near impossible to test by culture for phytoplasmas so its essential to do pcr and get that done. if they have the primers to replicate out the phytoplasm they can tell what strain it is. my guess from reading on another site is that its phytoplasma. some pretty compelling similarities of symptoms. bogus part is is that unlike virus and other types of pathogens its very difficult to cure in a plant. maybe even impossible.
 
We Solidarity

We Solidarity

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ilaughlast said:
yeah i just looked into to it too. its near impossible to test by culture for phytoplasmas so its essential to do pcr and get that done. if they have the primers to replicate out the phytoplasm they can tell what strain it is. my guess from reading on another site is that its phytoplasma. some pretty compelling similarities of symptoms. bogus part is is that unlike virus and other types of pathogens its very difficult to cure in a plant. maybe even impossible.
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definitely some interesting thought...

http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ppj.2011.161.167

if it is phytoplasmas, it will show up in the DNA analysis. And if it is phytoplasmas, just like if it's viral, it should be curable in vitro. We're about to try a micropropagation technique with some very old seedlings so we might also see what kind of sterilization happens with infected tissue.
 
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ilaughlast

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We Solidarity said:
definitely some interesting thought...

http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ppj.2011.161.167

if it is phytoplasmas, it will show up in the DNA analysis. And if it is phytoplasmas, just like if it's viral, it should be curable in vitro. We're about to try a micropropagation technique with some very old seedlings so we might also see what kind of sterilization happens with infected tissue.
Click to expand...
no it hasnt been shown to be curable in vitro even in micro prop. im doing the same thing im doing tissue cultures this summer and am going to get set up to do micro prop as well. there was some studies showing that cryogenic freezing of some plants apical meristem cells before culturing cleared it. different plant. i dont know if cannabis will react to cryogenic freezing well. there was another phytoplasma study where,4 more interestingly they heat treated the stems before making explants and had some success too.
 
T

toquer

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Last time we tried cryo on green plant material the cells exploded from the rapid change in water molecule size.
 
We Solidarity

We Solidarity

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so under a scope I didn't see any identifiable signs of infection of any sort inside vascular tissue, even with various staining techniques. Looked at 5 samples from 3 plants (two infected one not) but no fungal cells, hyphae, or even spore were found. I did see a good amount of lignin though, that shit looks really trippy under a scope with UV stain on it.

next step is sterilizing the outer surface of the sample and seeing if anything will grow in petri dishes from inside the plant. The DNA work will actually have to take place at my facility so we are trying to get that done ASAP, there is a very big interest now to see if there is chromosomal damage to the dud plants, which would indicate there is most likely not a pathogenic infection as the dudding happens all at once and at times when there is great transitional stress on the plant. This "hormonal collapse" seems likely given the extreme conditions our plants are grown under, with unnatural light cycles, highly aerated media, and a modified atmosphere that can contain overabundances of nitrogen, Co2, or oxygen depending on ventilation, air movement, and biomass inside the actual growroom.

this phenomenon is turning the heads of some very intelligent (albeit busy) people, and I can promise you there are scientific minds that are really digging for answers.
 
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ilaughlast

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youll not get phytoplasma to culture in vitro but you can amplify the dna and run a pcr with the right primers. i think there are two known. im excited to see what you find.
We Solidarity said:
so under a scope I didn't see any identifiable signs of infection of any sort inside vascular tissue, even with various staining techniques. Looked at 5 samples from 3 plants (two infected one not) but no fungal cells, hyphae, or even spore were found. I did see a good amount of lignin though, that shit looks really trippy under a scope with UV stain on it.

next step is sterilizing the outer surface of the sample and seeing if anything will grow in petri dishes from inside the plant. The DNA work will actually have to take place at my facility so we are trying to get that done ASAP, there is a very big interest now to see if there is chromosomal damage to the dud plants, which would indicate there is most likely not a pathogenic infection as the dudding happens all at once and at times when there is great transitional stress on the plant. This "hormonal collapse" seems likely given the extreme conditions our plants are grown under, with unnatural light cycles, highly aerated media, and a modified atmosphere that can contain overabundances of nitrogen, Co2, or oxygen depending on ventilation, air movement, and biomass inside the actual growroom.

this phenomenon is turning the heads of some very intelligent (albeit busy) people, and I can promise you there are scientific minds that are really digging for answers.
Click to expand...
 
We Solidarity

We Solidarity

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ilaughlast said:
youll not get phytoplasma to culture in vitro but you can amplify the dna and run a pcr with the right primers. i think there are two known. im excited to see what you find.
Click to expand...

I'll try to find out if we are going to do any PCR work but I do not think we are since the intention of the project is to record entire genomes...the lab I'm working with has a few phytoplasmas sequenced we can compare against but no one there seemed to think there was any indication of phytoplasma based on their experience with other plant species and a great diversity of phytoplasma species. Working with two PhDs, a post-grad working on his PhD, and a few badass post-grad interns that get to travel the world collecting different bacteria, fungi, and algae.
 
jessejames12345

jessejames12345

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this thread is one of the most interesting and in Cannabis future development that Ive read in a long time . Good to see so many GREAT minds looking in to this ! Keep it up everyone and THANK YOU from the rest of us farmers for the work !

JJ
 
I

ilaughlast

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well it sounds like you have a good team and you all are going to do some interesting work. thanks for sharing your project on here, ill look forward to reading your updates. as far aas the phytoplasmas go it just sounded like the same thing when i read about witches broom and yellow asters phytoplasma. have read the paper about phytoplasmas in cannabis in iran?
heres a link. it includes the primers for a pcr and the specific phytoplasmas found in cannabis.
http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ppj.2011.161.167#f1

i find it compelling but im a lay bro-science middle school drop out. you and your team know a hell of a lot more than i do. if they are familiar with this and dont think its it then im curious as to what the hell it is? i was thinking of extracting the dna and building the heat sequencing doohickey for amplifying the dna here in my kitchen but if yall do it id love to hear the results.
keep us posted and thanks for your posts!

We Solidarity said:
I'll try to find out if we are going to do any PCR work but I do not think we are since the intention of the project is to record entire genomes...the lab I'm working with has a few phytoplasmas sequenced we can compare against but no one there seemed to think there was any indication of phytoplasma based on their experience with other plant species and a great diversity of phytoplasma species. Working with two PhDs, a post-grad working on his PhD, and a few badass post-grad interns that get to travel the world collecting different bacteria, fungi, and algae.
Click to expand...
 
whatthe215

whatthe215

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^^^ not 'proven.' 2 out of 4 positive but untreated control vines recovered also.

The percentage of plants treated with IBA that recovered "was not significantly higher than the percentage of naturally-recovered vines, further research is required..."
 
N

nightmarecreature

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whatthe215 said:
^^^ not 'proven.' 2 out of 4 positive but untreated control vines recovered also.

The percentage of plants treated with IBA that recovered "was not significantly higher than the percentage of naturally-recovered vines, further research is required..."
Click to expand...

Youre right, i was pretty tired when i linked it up.

IBA is cheap, it's worth a shot to do your own testing.
 
whatthe215

whatthe215

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Seamaiden, some labs don't want to be publicly listed. It will be hard to make a list and I worry that some will stop accepting samples if too many people email about cannabis testing.
 
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