Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

[MIMedGrower]

Second set of pix looks like nuit burn.

I love you man! :-)

 

[Judaz]

Lol. Maybe we should limit large irresponsible commercial grows and those that oversee them. Seems you greedy bastards are ruining the plant for everyone.

Good thing the guilty party is here to warn us.

:-)



And no matter what you say next @Judaz none of the plants you diagnosed last night was like you say.

You havent proven anything but you large growers are passing around sick plants. And must see them in your own locations because i have longer time in this industry than you. And i have never heard a grower complain their clones have exploded. I have only grown personally for 6 years but have been working with growers since about 1985.

What have you idiot california cash croppers done?!?!?!


Lol.


And lighten up. No one said you were lying or inventing what you say. We simply said you are spamming our forum with it and it is not correct or helpful.


And yes. You got upset and said most plants you see have this. You are way past reasonable.

Sorry. Please try again.....

You can't hate me for being a commercial grower. Times have changed and we must adapt. I'm a college graduate with a business degree gave up a 6 figure salary to do this for a living. It's not a hobby but a business now. I'm not hating on anyone doing this for their personal use and as a hobby and love for the plant. That's how I started but being in California, has forced me to adapt or get squeezed out. It's not about us being greedy or ruining the plant. But yes you do have irresponsible commercial growers who have messed things up. I'll agree with you on that. I'm not one of them. I'm doing everything I can to make people aware and I'm always here to help with problems. Feel free to message me anytime regarding possible dud problems and room design setups and how to create ideal environment to maximize weight and quality. That's my forte.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Yes that is the secondary problem that comes out of the dud problem due to plants not being able to uptake water correctly. Same strain, same environment and started with the same nute requirements, had to adjust course correct to try to make the best out of the run. But yea you are correct. They are nute burned but because of dud issue.

Of course you were going to say that. Your job likely depends on it. But probably the issue happened right there while taking clones.

If you are pushing for the numbers you claim the workers are making all kinds of mistakes and not admitting them.

there is no control actually possible in a grow that size. Even if your job depends on it.

 

[Judaz]

Thank you for the compliment. I have no doubt that in your world of commercial grows and many workers your rooms have all kinds of disease popping up. Workers are lazy and make mistakes. We believe you are seeing a problem. But you keep seeing it everywhere. It is not.

And i have to say this. That big room of overfed burned og kush is not top shelf. Our personally cared for home grown is. We grow because what cash croppers supply to dispensaries usually sucks.

of course it's not. They are duds that have a nute problems. I'm not disagreeing with you guys on that but that comes from another root cause being the dud problem that changed the plant to be more sensitive and became over fed.

 

[Judaz]

Of course you were going to say that. Your job likely depends on it. But probably the issue happened right there while taking clones.

If you are pushing for the numbers you claim the workers are making all kinds of mistakes and not admitting them.

there is no control actually possible in a grow that size. Even if your job depends on it.

It was my fault as the head Green thumb of the rooms to not have spotted the issue earlier. Unfortunately you can have a dud that looks normal in veg and will dud in flower. I learn from my mistakes and will do a better job now that I'm more aware. I had never had a dud issue til this year. And I explained because I never kept mothers. I allowed that to happen this year and cuts were passed among different rooms. I take full responsibility for it being my fault and not the workers. As far as control, you would be surprised that there is with the proper measurements, protocols and logistics in the way you go about moving from room to room and safety measure you take to protect yourself. I've began implementing the protocols and have reduced duds significantly and will fix the problem. These rooms are in warehouses that contain 10-15 rooms this size inside. It's a challenge but not impossible.

 

[MIMedGrower]

You can't hate me for being a commercial grower. Times have changed and we must adapt. I'm a college graduate with a business degree gave up a 6 figure salary to do this for a living. It's not a hobby but a business now. I'm not hating on anyone doing this for their personal use and as a hobby and love for the plant. That's how I started but being in California, has forced me to adapt or get squeezed out. It's not about us being greedy or ruining the plant. But yes you do have irresponsible commercial growers who have messed things up. I'll agree with you on that. I'm not one of them. I'm doing everything I can to make people aware and I'm always here to help with problems. Feel free to message me anytime regarding possible dud problems and room design setups and how to create ideal environment to maximize weight and quality. That's my forte.

I dont hate you man. But you are warning of spreading disease and your business is responsible for the problem.

I think your rooms problems have cost too much already and you are looking everywhere for an excuse.

Thanks for the warning. I already would never bring an outside plant into my grow. Or an outside person even.

 

[Judaz]

I dont hate you man. But you are warning of spreading disease and your business is responsible for the problem.

I think your rooms problems have cost too much already and you are looking everywhere for an excuse.

Thanks for the warning. I already would never bring an outside plant into my grow. Or an outside person even.

Dont do it if you can void it. I'm concerned for the newbies buying cuts from local dispensaries and clone farms. They are the problem and hazard. I don't sell clones or seeds. Just run my OG strains. But when you have workers that have their own stuff at home that they bought from the hazard zone. Its definitely an issue in my rooms. Unfortunately can't control what they do outside of work. But I can implement better sterilization measures for when they come to work

 

[MIMedGrower]

It was my fault as the head Green thumb of the rooms to not have spotted the issue earlier. Unfortunately you can have a dud that looks normal in veg and will dud in flower. I learn from my mistakes and will do a better job now that I'm more aware. I had never had a dud issue til this year. And I explained because I never kept mothers. I allowed that to happen this year and cuts were passed among different rooms. I take full responsibility for it being my fault and not the workers. As far as control, you would be surprised that there is with the proper measurements, protocols and logistics in the way you go about moving from room to room and safety measure you take to protect yourself. I've began implementing the protocols and have reduced duds significantly and will fix the problem. These rooms are in warehouses that contain 10-15 rooms this size inside. It's a challenge but not impossible.

It is impossible. Humans will lie when stressed they have to take responsibility for a problem they caused.


And even from here i knew cuts caused the problem.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Dont do it if you can void it. I'm concerned for the newbies buying cuts from local dispensaries and clone farms. They are the problem and hazard. I don't sell clones or seeds. Just run my OG strains. But when you have workers that have their own stuff at home that they bought from the hazard zone. Its definitely an issue in my rooms. Unfortunately can't control what they do outside of work. But I can implement better sterilization measures for when they come to work

Funny how money is always the root cause.

 

[Judaz]

Funny how money is always the root cause.

It's a necessary evil that comes with commercialization. If I don't make my investors money and fix the problems, I will get fired.

 

[Aqua Man]

It's a necessary evil that comes with commercialization. If I don't make my investors money and fix the problems, I will get fired.

What better way out than a phantom diagnosis that is out of your control right? Otherwise you have to answer for your mistakes. When you can't figure something out and it doesn't make sense to you it must be right?

I make my fair share of misdiagnosing plants. But I can admit it. Again I'm not saying this is or is not an issue in your grow just pointing out the obvious. I would assume you have as a commercial grower had this confirmed by a lab as would be the responsible thing to do in your shoes. Can we see the lab report?

 

[Judaz]

What better way out than a phantom diagnosis that is out of your control right? Otherwise you have to answer for your mistakes. When you can't figure something out and it doesn't make sense to you it must be right?

I make my fair share of misdiagnosing plants. But I can admit it. Again I'm not saying this is or is not an issue in your grow just pointing out the obvious. I would assume you have as a commercial grower had this confirmed by a lab as would be the responsible thing to do in your shoes. Can we see the lab report?

let me find out if I can share this info as it’s confidential and may get in trouble. They dont know I’m one here posting.using another name ofcourse

 

[Judaz]

What better way out than a phantom diagnosis that is out of your control right? Otherwise you have to answer for your mistakes. When you can't figure something out and it doesn't make sense to you it must be right?

I make my fair share of misdiagnosing plants. But I can admit it. Again I'm not saying this is or is not an issue in your grow just pointing out the obvious. I would assume you have as a commercial grower had this confirmed by a lab as would be the responsible thing to do in your shoes. Can we see the lab report?

Just talked to the CEO and asked I could show the report from CSP labs https://csplabs.com/hop-latent-viroid-hplv/

I told him I wanted to share the doc with another a fellow grower for research purposes and asked him for It. Obviously couldn’t say I was gonna share on a public forum. I’d prob be fired instantly if they were to find out so I would have hidden company info. He does not think it’s a good idea at the moment given it could effect the reputation of the company and future potential clients and upset investors if it were to get leaked somehow. I understand where he is coming from based on a business stand point. Hopefully after the dust settles I can get it but as of now. I’ll say this.

A couple weeks ago we took a few plants with the obvious symptoms. They had me pick 3 which I consider healthy. Put the 2 groups in separate bags each labeled and shipped them. We got results Friday. All samples even the healthy ones tested positive for Hop Latent viroid .

This tells me they all have the viroid even the healthy looking ones. Yet they are not showing any symptoms and it’s probably because the healthier looking plants are simply stronger and have not let the viroid over take their immune system.

Next step is to send them to get cleaned up. We haven’t decided if we are going to use Dark Heart Nursery or possibly a reputable Canadian company offering similar services. Current lab is not doing this service just testing. In the meantime, I’m going to keep doing my best to get everything under control.

Right now I’m using chitosan and salicylic acid. Ordered Jasmonic acid. Adding extra additive like B vitamins, emzymes
and friendly cultures. On a mission to eradicate a gnat problem that has not been totally eliminated and occasional
Sporadic pm we’ve gotten here and there. Working to fix that. For clones and veg. Installed brand new hepa filters that scrub each room 24/7. Developed a protocol where I’ve split employees from veg and flower room tasks to avoid cross contamination. Before they would work on both. Alcohol mats in place as well and and having them put on suits to work in. No more sharing tools across rooms. Every room has their own tools and supplies. Not allowing workers that work on flower rooms to enter veg rooms.

Ima bit stressed and worried right now, I know may seem a bit paranoid to some but my job and reputation is on the line to fix the problem. A stress that comes with the job. Sucks. It was way better not having to deal with the pressure to perform, execute and deliver results. If things go wrong. I will
get the heat for it. In the meantime I’ve decided I’m going to order brand new clean tested clones from a reputable source and kill what I have of the Og strain I brought to the table when they agreed to give me the job of master grower. Anyways that’s the current status. Been on the forum too much lately posting a lot. I’m
not usually on here as much. I apologize to the ones I’ve annoyed. I know I been posting a lot on the subject matter.

 

[Judaz]

I admit I did suspect problems last month but was making All the excuses to myself and trying to find all the reasons why I didn’t. I was hoping to blame it all on epigenetics.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I admit I did suspect problems last month but was making All the excuses to myself and trying to find all the reasons why I didn’t. I was hoping to blame it all on epigenetics.

Good luck conquering the problem.

 

[Aqua Man]

Just talked to the CEO and asked I could show the report from CSP labs https://csplabs.com/hop-latent-viroid-hplv/

I told him I wanted to share the doc with another a fellow grower for research purposes and asked him for It. Obviously couldn’t say I was gonna share on a public forum. I’d prob be fired instantly if they were to find out so I would have hidden company info. He does not think it’s a good idea at the moment given it could effect the reputation of the company and future potential clients and upset investors if it were to get leaked somehow. I understand where he is coming from based on a business stand point. Hopefully after the dust settles I can get it but as of now. I’ll say this.

A couple weeks ago we took a few plants with the obvious symptoms. They had me pick 3 which I consider healthy. Put the 2 groups in separate bags each labeled and shipped them. We got results Friday. All samples even the healthy ones tested positive for Hop Latent viroid .

This tells me they all have the viroid even the healthy looking ones. Yet they are not showing any symptoms and it’s probably because the healthier looking plants are simply stronger and have not let the viroid over take their immune system.

Next step is to send them to get cleaned up. We haven’t decided if we are going to use Dark Heart Nursery or possibly a reputable Canadian company offering similar services. Current lab is not doing this service just testing. In the meantime, I’m going to keep doing my best to get everything under control.

Right now I’m using chitosan and salicylic acid. Ordered Jasmonic acid. Adding extra additive like B vitamins, emzymes
and friendly cultures. On a mission to eradicate a gnat problem that has not been totally eliminated and occasional
Sporadic pm we’ve gotten here and there. Working to fix that. For clones and veg. Installed brand new hepa filters that scrub each room 24/7. Developed a protocol where I’ve split employees from veg and flower room tasks to avoid cross contamination. Before they would work on both. Alcohol mats in place as well and and having them put on suits to work in. No more sharing tools across rooms. Every room has their own tools and supplies. Not allowing workers that work on flower rooms to enter veg rooms.

Ima bit stressed and worried right now, I know may seem a bit paranoid to some but my job and reputation is on the line to fix the problem. A stress that comes with the job. Sucks. It was way better not having to deal with the pressure to perform, execute and deliver results. If things go wrong. I will
get the heat for it. In the meantime I’ve decided I’m going to order brand new clean tested clones from a reputable source and kill what I have of the Og strain I brought to the table when they agreed to give me the job of master grower. Anyways that’s the current status. Been on the forum too much lately posting a lot. I’m
not usually on here as much. I apologize to the ones I’ve annoyed. I know I been posting a lot on the subject matter.

That's not a lab report. Any which way it's your grow and you know about your grow better than I do. I have said my piece.

 

[Judaz]

That's not a lab report. Any which way it's your grow and you know about your grow better than I do. I have said my piece.

I know it’s not. But just sharing the company who tested it.

 

[MIMedGrower]

That's not a lab report

I believe him. These western operations have been vectoring this virus for a few years now.

Think about the oregon cash croppers and the massive infestations of root aphids or new mites.

 

[Aqua Man]

So let's wash this and start over I think at 1 point I felt you were making it personal or at least that's the way I took it. You make some valid points and I'm not and never was saying this issue does not exist. I do feel it was being used loosely and could have been handled better. One thing I know is when I take things personally it skews objective thought and rational. So I can say we're are likely both a little guilty of that. My concern is that we be cautious of the information we pass on and be honest about our certainty of it.

 

[Judaz]

Duds in the cloning phase. While you can’t really tell by looking at them. They may not show any leaf or branching problems yet. This is how you can start to test for them. Last tray I got a good feeling a good number will dud. Took those from lower shoot branches and were the last cuts I took from veg plants. Gonna quarantine the good trays from the bad trays now. They also tend to be the last ones to root as well

In flower room. 1st week of flower and already starting to see some. They usually look weaker than the healthier ones. Don’t grow as fast and they just give you a weird sensation. Most likely they will dud