Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

Aqua Man

Staff member
Supporter
show me the facts... cause I have shown them. So until you do. You are the one that does not know what’s up. And if you claim environmental then you agree its epigenetics. 20+ years growing and every year I’m always learning new things. How long have you been growing.
I don't give a fuck how long you have grown. I can't show you the facts other than the people that correct thier issues and the plant gets better. Fact is an under watered plant will recover after given water... Fact to much light causes light burn and reducing it will correct the issue... What kinda fucking facts you want moron? Dumbest question ever and I used to think there was no such thing ☹
 

Aqua Man

Staff member
Supporter
Because they’ve identified the problem and have been working to eradicate. They’ve had 15-20% incidents before they actually knew what was going on. Lmao you must be a kid with a few years experience in growing all excited going around diagnosing issues and helping the beginners. Trust me bro. I’ve been there.
15-20 after it has been there for a long time yet most of the grows you diagnose are all the plants 100% and from seed which is 10% chance and that's IF from an infected plant. Dude your a joke to me at this point. It's a shame because you carry some valid info yet are sooo hellbent on making everything viroid related which is just not the case.

And if I didn't say something I'm sure you would still be doing it but now suddenly you not doing that? What changed?
 
15-20 after it has been there for a long time yet most of the grows you diagnose are all the plants 100% and from seed which is 10% chance and that's from an infected plant. Dude your a joke to me at this point. It's a shame because you carry some valid info yet are sooo hellbent on making everything viroid related which is just not the case.
Like I mention to you the threads that I posted on where phantom threads that have not been solved. There are plenty of threads I looked at that I skipped because I felt that you guys did a good job diagnosing the issues. That’s why you say 100% on the 5 threads that I tagged for possible viroid problems. That’s not a joke. It’s helping people because I see you guys trying to tell these guys to save all the runts and mutated plants. And to me you are putting them at risk to infect the rest of their healthy plants if it is the case they may have a viroid problem. The way I see it and has worked well for me in the past is. If a certain plant is showing weird phantom symptoms that cannot be explained by conventional diagnostic methods then you quarantine or scrap the plant until you can clearly determine a pathogen problem. That’s being thoughtful and helpful. You guys are trying to be captain save a hoe and revive all the mutated fuckers...peace dude. Until you show me evidence for your reasons and claims to the problem I asked you don’t have my respect as a cannabis Dr. Greenthumb. You are the joke
 

Aqua Man

Staff member
Supporter
Like I mention to you the threads that I posted on where phantom threads that have not been solved. There are plenty of threads I looked at that I skipped because I felt that you guys did a good job diagnosing the issues. That’s why you say 100% on the 5 threads that I tagged for possible viroid problems. That’s not a joke. It’s helping people because I see you guys trying to tell these guys to save all the runts and mutated plants. And to me you are putting them at risk to infect the rest of their healthy plants if it is the case they may have a viroid problem. The way I see it and has worked well for me in the past is. If a certain plant is showing weird phantom symptoms that cannot be explained by conventional diagnostic methods then you quarantine or scrap the plant until you can clearly determine a pathogen problem. That’s being thoughtful and helpful. You guys are trying to be captain save a hoe and revive all the mutated fuckers...peace dude. Until you show me evidence for your reasons and claims to the problem I asked you don’t have my respect as a cannabis Dr. Greenthumb. You are the joke
Let's see you start helping people before you throw stones... Let's see some diagnosis with something other than viroids. Fact is you can't so I could give 2 shits what ya think. Fact environment is 99% of the issues we see here. And stunting can be cause by many issues trying to correct them is by no means trying to save every plant. You see you are dealing with a lot of novice growers here and as I stated 99% of there issues WILL be grower error. So get to it let's see these skills you have
 

Aqua Man

Staff member
Supporter
Like I mention to you the threads that I posted on where phantom threads that have not been solved. There are plenty of threads I looked at that I skipped because I felt that you guys did a good job diagnosing the issues. That’s why you say 100% on the 5 threads that I tagged for possible viroid problems. That’s not a joke. It’s helping people because I see you guys trying to tell these guys to save all the runts and mutated plants. And to me you are putting them at risk to infect the rest of their healthy plants if it is the case they may have a viroid problem. The way I see it and has worked well for me in the past is. If a certain plant is showing weird phantom symptoms that cannot be explained by conventional diagnostic methods then you quarantine or scrap the plant until you can clearly determine a pathogen problem. That’s being thoughtful and helpful. You guys are trying to be captain save a hoe and revive all the mutated fuckers...peace dude. Until you show me evidence for your reasons and claims to the problem I asked you don’t have my respect as a cannabis Dr. Greenthumb. You are the joke
And I said 100% of the plants in those threads were affected not 100% of the the threads you posted in. That sure doesn't line up with you diagnosis or the info provided in the video.
 
And I said 100% of the plants in those threads were affected not 100% of the the threads you posted in. That sure doesn't line up with you diagnosis or the info provided in the video.
I don’t know if you misunderstood me but I was not saying all plants were affected. There were certain plants I saw in pictures provided that showed irregular branching patterns and most I’ve asked for more pictures side pictures to get a better look.

I don’t have all the time in the world to look at every single issue and diagnose the common problems. I’ll let you guys do that and I’m not saying you guys are not doing a good job diagnosing the common problems. I just feel you guys don’t have enough experience with viroid problems because you have never experienced them like your other buddy mentioned. There is nothing wrong with mentioning or warning people that they may have a viroid problem if certain plants are showing the characteristics. Environment is the major cause for plant mutations (epigenetics) especially when they contain viroids and the plants immunity has been compromised. Most viroids are asymptomatic which means they could be present but not show symptoms given your plant is kept healthy. but when the environment has not been the factor and been generally within range of cannabis extremities then you must look elsewhere for the causes. There are plenty of issues with temps and humidity that can create nutrient lock outs and deficiencies, I get that and the only factor that may cause a creeper genetic mutation is linked to droughts. If they have not experienced drought issues with their plants then we must look towards viroids. I’ve seen plenty of plants come back from not having sufficient water and not mutate as well. So it’s hard for them to mutate unless stressors continue to happen over and over again. Just wait til it happens to you and you may change your tune.
 
Last edited:

Aqua Man

Staff member
Supporter
I don’t know if you misunderstood me but I was not saying all plants were affected. There were certain plants I saw in pictures provided that showed irregular branching patterns and most I’ve asked for more pictures side pictures to get a better look.

I don’t have all the time in the world to look at every single issue and diagnose the common problems. I’ll let you guys do that and I’m not saying you guys are not doing a good job diagnosing the common problems. I just feel you guys don’t have enough experience with viroid problems because you have never experienced them like your other buddy mentioned. There is nothing wrong with mentioning or warning people that they may have a viroid problem if certain plants are showing the characteristics. Environment is the major cause for plant mutations (epigenetics) especially when they contain viroids and the plants immunity has been compromised. Most viroids are asymptomatic which means they could be present but it show symptoms given your plant is kept healthy. but when the environment has not been the factor and been generally within range of cannabis extremities then you must look elsewhere for the causes. There are plenty of issues with temps and humidity that can create nutrient lock outs and deficiencies, I get that and the only factor that may cause a creeper genetic mutation is linked to droughts. If they have not experienced drought issues with their plants then we must look towards viroids. I’ve seen plenty of plants come back from not having sufficient water and not mutate as well. So it’s hard for them to mutate unless stressors continue to happen over and over again. Just wait til it happens to you and you may change your tune.
No no you did claim you have 20 yrs experience diagnosing plants all are leaving the easy stuff to the growers here. Step the fuck up and diagnose some. If I'm a joke I'm good with that because the feeling is mutual
 
Here is an example : heat stress and to much light .. both so wrong it hurts.

I’ve seen that issue crop up especially when there is too much light and par is high on tops of plants and they are asking for more nutes. Could lead to nute issues causing deficiencies, lock outs and necrosis.
I’ve also seen it in conjunction with heat stress but we can rule that out as he has LED’s. Other times it has come from moving plants from veg to flower and plants not having a big enough root system to support the strong change in lights. Grower did mention cold problems. Something we don’t have a problem here in California so that I wouldn’t have an answer for.

what’s your diagnosis?
 

Aqua Man

Staff member
Supporter
I’ve seen that issue crop up especially when there is too much light and par is high on tops of plants and they are asking for more nutes. Could lead to nute issues causing deficiencies, lock outs and necrosis.
I’ve also seen it in conjunction with heat stress but we can rule that out as he has LED’s. Other times it has come from moving plants from veg to flower and plants not having a big enough root system to support the strong change lights. Grower did mention cold problems. Something we don’t have a problem here in California so that I wouldn’t have an answer for.

what’s your diagnosis?
All the info of what I think is in that thread. He switched to led and lower wattage leading to lower leaf temps because of the lack of IR produced by Led. Add to that very cool temps. The problem is the temperature. While led will have contributed to lower leaf temps it was not the sole cause of his issues. Simply needed to adjust the air temps to compensate for lack of IR and generally low temps. He could also increase the light provided contrary to your opinion
 
All the info of what I think is in that thread. He switched to led and lower wattage leading to lower leaf temps because of the lack of IR produced by Led. Add to that very cool temps. The problem is the temperature. While led will have contributed to lower leaf temps it was not the sole cause of his issues. Simply needed to adjust the air temps to compensate for lack of IR and generally low temps. He could also increase the light provided contrary to your opinion
There you go, your Canadian experience helped you on that one. I know it gets cold
out there and I’m sure you guys have ways to fix those cold temp issues that can arise. Luckily we don’t deal with those issues here. Even in winter time, if your room is insulated well, your run the lights at night and cold temps are never an issue especially if you are running HID lights. But for certain I’ve see those symptoms on plants getting too much lights on tops especially in the first couple weeks of flower. Will monitor that thread to see if they look better hopefully @Cdub97 can show us the progress
 

Aqua Man

Staff member
Supporter
There you go, your Canadian experience helped you on that one. I know it gets cold
out there and I’m sure you guys have ways to fix those cold temp issues that can arise. Luckily we don’t deal with those issues here. Even in winter time, if your room is insulated well, your run the lights at night and cold temps are never an issue especially if you are running HID lights. But for certain I’ve see those symptoms on plants getting too much lights on tops especially in the first couple weeks of flower. Will monitor that thread to see if they look better hopefully @Cdub97 can show us the progress
You don't get it. Diagnosing plants is situation exclusive. Just because the plants express the same symptoms does not mean it's the same cause. This is what I have been trying to get across. Just because a plant shows a specific symptom does not mean there is one answer to that symtom. Just because it's not been figured out yet does not mean it's can just be explained away by viroids. I agree that viroids are a thing and we should be diligent looking for it. What I'm saying is it's a dangerous slope to blindly diagnose this way and it appears you are for some reason trying cause a hysteria over this or make a name for yourself as some holy fighter of viroids when like I said before the simplest explanation is usually the case.
 
No no you did claim you have 20 yrs experience diagnosing plants all are leaving the easy stuff to the growers here. Step the fuck up and diagnose some. If I'm a joke I'm good with that because the feeling is mutual
No I get what you are saying regarding looking at all the factors, I’m with you on that. I mentioned the symptoms and when I have seen that before. In other words check on those factors was my message to him on that thread I was not attempting to diagnose but to check the par readings. On tops. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying you guys can’t diagnose the common problems. But my issue is when there is no answer to the problem when considering all the knowns and things don’t make sense. There are no factors in the environment aside from a continual drought experience where you can correlate a branch like mutation to the horizontal bowing syndrome. So that was my point. That you guys may be overseeing the root cause and only focused on the secondary problems with no solution to the problem.

I feel you guys don’t have enough experience with the viroid and mutation problems. Everyone has their expertise and can draw upon the experiences and all the obstacles that we have overcome throughout the years. I’m just hoping you guys can be abit more open minded in looking at viroid problems now as a more common possibility, especially when there are phantom issues that have not been solved given the environment checks out. Secondary problems do arise from mutated plants that now require different NPK ratios. The plant has changed and so have the requirements to feed it and keep it balanced. The key to growing a successful crop 1st comes down to environment and then nutes being balanced within the cycle. Trying to get the ppm in to come back nearly the same as the ppm out for your specific npk requirements for the given weeks throughout the cycle. And ph out to be within a considerable ranges for optimal nutrient uptake. I don’t follow weekly formulas and weekly flushes. I let plant dictate that to me when it wants to be flushed or restarted depending on the week it’s in the cycle and they are very consistent when it comes to that. As a grower all you can do is put the plant in an environment where it’s allowed to flourish. My specialty is growing top shelf cannabis while maximizing weight. My averages are 3-3.5 per 1000 watt HID lights on OG’s. That’s what I’m known for... and ofcourse seen many issues along the way and have overcame many tough obstacles.
 

Aqua Man

Staff member
Supporter
My averages are 3-3.5 per 1000 watt HID lights on OG’s. That’s what I’m known for... and ofcourse seen many issues along the way and have overcame many tough obstacles.
Means shit to me or the ability to diagnose anything. Nor does 20+ yrs of experience. Someone here once said something that rang so true. 20yrs experience or 1yr of experience replicated 20 times makes a big difference.

Anyhow I'm done with this convo and going to go back to being a joke.
 
Means shit to me or the ability to diagnose anything. Nor does 20+ yrs of experience. Someone here once said something that rang so true. 20yrs experience or 1yr of experience replicated 20 times makes a big difference.

Anyhow I'm done with this convo and going to go back to being a joke.
You do what you gotta do bro. I oversee legal commercial op’s and dealing with the business. Not trying to take your job away so go get em tiger. You’re doing Grrreat.... If I see phantom issues with no solution to problems you bet I’m going to throw my 2 cents in. Surprised you are not a moderator yet with all the help you put out and inputs. To be frank, you deserve it. All jokes aside. You are doing a good job man. Keep it up
 
Last edited:
I think the spreading of virus and disease is grower error.

Doing it in a flooded market of volume growers is a massive grower error.

I have grown seeds from many breeders and reversed elite cuttings and never seen anything like these viruses.

Once he said gg4 is known to have it credibility ended. It is known to have kinked leaves and like original diesel it is a bitch to grow well. Everyone and their grandmother has a cut of that here.
props on your room man just checked your link on the footer. Room looks good nice buds. Here are pics of my OG kush. 9 light gavitas, 10 ft ceilings, and completely sealed room Co2 room with exhaust. 30+ pounds consistent pull of quality top shelf OG Kush. Having a dud problem can make one go from this
A075794F-E027-403E-B309-EBBA137651FC.jpeg
590B70E4-F4BC-4FAF-84F8-47418DDA5A85.jpeg
68B3E51D-119D-4E3C-9411-CDB2204C87DA.jpeg
7B99FA20-75E9-4DBF-970C-467ACDDD4011.jpeg


To this:
5409E623-EC44-4898-BB7A-C2C17557FF4D.jpeg
43FC160D-7A87-4AD5-8ACE-86556962105B.jpeg
E17534A9-8683-41F9-95EF-7477D9A70192.jpeg


it’s no joke... it’s for real
 
Lol. Maybe we should limit large irresponsible commercial grows and those that oversee them. Seems you greedy bastards are ruining the plant for everyone.

Good thing the guilty party is here to warn us.

:-)



And no matter what you say next @Judaz none of the plants you diagnosed last night was like you say.

You havent proven anything but you large growers are passing around sick plants. And must see them in your own locations because i have longer time in this industry than you. And i have never heard a grower complain their clones have exploded. I have only grown personally for 6 years but have been working with growers since about 1985.

What have you idiot california cash croppers done?!?!?!


Lol.


And lighten up. No one said you were lying or inventing what you say. We simply said you are spamming our forum with it and it is not correct or helpful.


And yes. You got upset and said most plants you see have this. You are way past reasonable.

Sorry. Please try again.....
 
Second set of pix looks like nuit burn.
Yes that is the secondary problem that comes out of the dud problem due to plants not being able to uptake water correctly. Same strain, same environment and started with the same nute requirements, had to adjust course correct to try to make the best out of the run. But yea you are correct. They are nute burned but because of dud issue.
 
props on your room man just checked your link on the footer. Room looks good nice buds. Here are pics of my OG kush. 9 light gavitas, 10 ft ceilings, and completely sealed room Co2 room with exhaust. 30+ pounds consistent pull of quality top shelf OG Kush. Having a dud problem can make one go from this View attachment 909514 View attachment 909515 View attachment 909516 View attachment 909517

To this:
View attachment 909524 View attachment 909525 View attachment 909526

it’s no joke... it’s for real

Thank you for the compliment. I have no doubt that in your world of commercial grows and many workers your rooms have all kinds of disease popping up. Workers are lazy and make mistakes. We believe you are seeing a problem. But you keep seeing it everywhere. It is not.

And i have to say this. That big room of overfed burned og kush is not top shelf. Our personally cared for home grown is. We grow because what cash croppers supply to dispensaries usually sucks.
 
Top