Hey, let me stand up for Beluga here, I think you may be reading him wrong. He's genuinely trying to help you.
I'm with you. I might be able to grow concrete tho.Yeah, this is what I said yesterday, and also above - imo - there are two types of people, those with a green thumb who can throw a seed on a slab of concrete in a dark room and have it magically grow into a massive, perfect plant - and others, like myself, who can't grow the most basic of things under the most ideal environments lol.
I'm with you. I might be able to grow concrete tho.
If you take one piece of advice from me, completely sterilize your system and start over. Post it up to a grow thread and tag me in, I'll follow along and help you where I can. You can get over the learning curve in one grow.
Im a tin foil hat… they dont even recognize my kindSome people have an innate talent for horticulture. Others, including myself, could kill a cactus. I had to learn my green thumb with the internet and books as teachers.
Ever hear of the 7 intelligences?
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I'm ohhh so purple. Somehow you straddle blue and purple, and to me that is unusual. Most natural born growers tend to be more "creative" types in addition to naturalistic. And on top of that you are a fish.
If I know those purple peoples, I know they can't sit still, too.Some people have an innate talent for horticulture. Others, including myself, could kill a cactus. I had to learn my green thumb with the internet and books as teachers.
Ever hear of the 7 intelligences?
View attachment 1290757
I'm ohhh so purple. Somehow you straddle blue and purple, and to me that is unusual. Most natural born growers tend to be more "creative" types in addition to naturalistic. And on top of that you are a fish.
You probably remember when I recently started up my mothballed system and it was really nasty due to undrained lines and chiller.
I filled it with RO and started all the pumps.
I then put in a lot of 12% (maybe .5L? didn't measure) and then ran the system that way for a day. I used the water to clean all parts of the system and then drained it. It was over 100PPM, which is the max for these strips.
After I drained and added new RO day 2, there was still sufficient H2O2 in the water to read 100PPM. I let it go another day.
Drained and added RO and the H2O2 is now measurable. In the 50PPM range. I let it run for a week that way, and it only dropped slightly.
This is why I say it reacts more slowly in a situation where the bio load is low. Of course it is not sterile, I just meant that all significant life was gone.
In order to get to zero, I had to sully drain once more, and even vacuum out the remaining crannies with a shop vac, then add RO back in.
I can bench test this and show this phenomenon quite easily. But I am certain that H2O2 reacts differently depending on the load, if these strips are to be believed.
In terms of running it while growing, yes, any organic matter, including roots, will consume H2O2 more quickly. I have seen this too.
I have not run a sterile system in a long time, so I do not have any additional documentation to share on that.
No apologies necessary. I know how frustration gets us.Well then I apologize. I'm sure my frustrations regarding everything throughout this aren't helping here.
Some people just inherently 'get growing'. I think it's blatantly obvious - I'm not one of them. I'm doing what I can, in my own ways, to try to better understand things. I don't appreciate being made fun of for trying to learn in a way that makes sense to me. We all learn differently.
He wasn’t using it in his system… he was cleaing an empty system… thats where we were miscommunicating… he is right in his use…. dont make the mistake of not understanding the context because in a system with plants it will NOT be the sameNot trying to beat a dead horse here, and I realize this is very situational, but this right here is a prime example of why actually testing, vs just randomly assuming things based on 'random internet knowledge' can be vital when trying to gain an understanding of what's going on in someone's own system.
If Moe had blindly believed and followed the general knowledge thrown around on the net, he would have believed that after 2-3 days, all that H2O2 would have completely broken down in his system. However, him doing actual testing of how much sterilization agent remained in his system proved contradictory to that common belief.
Had he just simply blindly followed this belief without actually testing his unique environment/system to confirm those assumptions and instead just assumed it had all broken down and then introduced his beneficial bacteria into his system, he would have incorrectly assumed he had properly inoculated his system, when in fact all that beneficial bacteria would have been eradicated by the high levels of sterilization agent that remained in his system.
In this example - it's a good thing he actually did testing himself to learn how long it truly was remaining in his system to confirm the levels were at 0, before introducing the beneficial bacteria, or he could have ended up in a situation where he's assuming things are good to go, when in reality, the levels weren't where they needed to be.
Ok this is just to all over the place for me…No, I fully understand he was using it to clean his system. My point remains valid - he was cleaning it to use it, and was checking to ensure his levels were at 0 so he could add the beneficial bacteria.
Had he attempted to inoculate that system and use it without checking to ensure his H2O2 levels were at zero before doing so - he would have killed off that beneficial bacteria.
Ok this is just to all over the place for me…
i understand exactly how it works and why.
But you run sterile systems and what im saying is dont confuse the cleaning of an empty system with having the same results in a running system with plants.
i think im just gonna duck out of trying to explain all these different ins and outs and the context’s.
It’s nobody’s fault. Its just there is a shit ton to the subject and im thin on concentration and patience to explain is all. Like all things cannabis the real understanding comes from a very deep discussion i just dont have the energy for. If anyone ahould apologize for that its meSorry - Just ignore me. I clearly don't know anything about any of this and am confusing myself.
Nah it's all good. I'm sorry for coming off like an ass, when I was just trying to understand and felt my logic behind things made sense. Clearly I was mistaken, about a great number of things. In either case, I never expected my hand to be held. I was just trying to understand the source of my problems.It’s nobody’s fault. Its just there is a shit ton to the subject and im thin on concentration and patience to explain is all. Like all things cannabis the real understanding comes from a very deep discussion i just dont have the energy for. If anyone ahould apologize for that its me
Yes, we are saying the same thing. And yes we overcomplicated the crap out of this.He wasn’t using it in his system… he was cleaing an empty system… thats where we were miscommunicating… he is right in his use…. dont make the mistake of not understanding the context because in a system with plants it will NOT be the same
I'm sure in time it will come, if for no other reason beyond my own stubbornness.Basically id clean the system as @Moe.Red describes and then pick sterile or live and establish a good healthy seedling… that should solve your issues and good luck man. Just stick to it and it will come. If going sterile a great way to see the difference is the strips that Moe mentioned
Yes, we are saying the same thing. And yes we overcomplicated the crap out of this.
H2O2 at high doses can remain measurable a very long time. Not like in the bottle time, but week(s).
Small doses can get used quickly with a high biologic load. This means you will most likely need to trend dosages up as roots grow to maintain the same level of effectiveness.
That's what I should have said pages ago and left it alone.
No push back… just attempts to clarify gone wrongI'm sure in time it will come, if for no other reason beyond my own stubbornness.
Yes, I will be going sterile this round again, but using H2O2 instead of chlorine this time, as well as continuing top feeding per your excellent recommendation (I truly think this was the missing key!). I've already picked up those strips Moe mentioned, and will absolutely be conducting my own tests with them once the plants are in the system to see know and verify how long H2O2 truly remains active in my system, and at the required levels.
Testing certainly can't hurt; it can only let me know if I need to add it more or less often than the general blind recommendation of "every 3 days" to hit and maintain 5ppm. If it breaks down and levels drop to 0ppm in 1-3 days, great! If it stays in the system longer, then I can accurately calculate how much to add and how often to keep them at 5ppm and avoid having it build up over time, potentially harming the roots due to excessive levels.
I'm still just absolutely blown away by the amount of push back I've received simply for wanting to verify information by running some basic tests myself on my own actual system in my own unique environment. I'm truly shocked. I would have expected a completely different response, especially from those who are heavily into this at a more of a methodical/scientific level, and I'm sure there are some very experienced growers who take things beyond just 'plant feel' and get down into the nitty gritty of things at the finest levels - especially when it comes to hydro, which just by it's very nature requires the understanding and manipulation of many variables, vs something like a basic super-soil, water-only grow.
I think it's hilarious that when Moe is talking about the various tests he's doing (some literally the exact same as I've been wanting to do on my own) - everyone thinks it's great, asks questions, and contributes meaningful responses back toward his findings, yet when I expressed interest in wanting to run similar tests to verify the sterilization agent levels in my own system and environment, it's met with resounding push-back. I really did not expect that. It's quite funny.
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