Ethos Seeds "Candy Store" under 2 Gavita Pro 1700e LED's

[Aqua Man]

Its funny guys mention pulling leaves of sends the energy to the tops,listening to bugby mention that the leaves send energy to the tops taking them off prevents that so you lose that energy..was something like that..and using the green light in the room..mine a led and very bright so now i need to find something not as strong..i might go to a party tonite and mention photon flux and see if i can score a root..

I'm betting you get a whole lot of references to...

 

[sshz]

Its funny guys mention pulling leaves of sends the energy to the tops,listening to bugby mention that the leaves send energy to the tops taking them off prevents that so you lose that energy..was something like that..and using the green light in the room..mine a led and very bright so now i need to find something not as strong..i might go to a party tonite and mention photon flux and see if i can score a root..

Defoliation is a trade off between the plants having fewer sugar factories (leaves) and the buds getting high doses of direct light. There is a happy medium in there somewhere, you just have to find it. My purpose this time was to make sure I catch every bit of photons with nothing passing thru. I felt the Orange Gasm was forgiving in my over defoliation, other strains may not be. Sweet Zombie may be a perfect example, as I removed too much too late in flowering (late 3rd week) and it slowed things down quite a bit, although it did all work out in the end.

 

[Mr.GreenthumbOG]

Defoliation is a trade off between the plants having fewer sugar factories and the buds getting high doses of direct light. There is a happy medium in there somewhere, you just have to find it. My purpose this time was to make sure I catch every bit of photons with nothing passing thru. I felt the Orange Gasm was forgiving in my over defoliation, other strains may not be.

This statement is absolute gospel truth.
Have to get a feel for it, and understand strain specifics. Some sexy girls there @sshz

 

[Milson]

Defoliation is a trade off between the plants having fewer sugar factories and the buds getting high doses of direct light. There is a happy medium in there somewhere, you just have to find it. My purpose this time was to make sure I catch every bit of photons with nothing passing thru. I felt the Orange Gasm was forgiving in my over defoliation, other strains may not be.

Agree w this. It's about opportunity cost. If you remove that leaf, what happens to those photons? If you lose some.of them and the rest hit a bud site, especially if that bud site rises up to replace the leaf, that could very well just be a win.

 

[Madmax]

He mentioned about red penetrating through the canopy ..now i know why i had bud way down in there.he was more about removing leaves for air circulation...was a good read.

 

[sshz]

That's my biggest concern right now, getting more light to the lower extremities. I suspect it may suffer a bit this time and am hoping the "heavy" yield makes up for some of it.

 

[Aqua Man]

Green penetrates very well... I think the best of any spectrum but that's in large part due to its inefficiency I think

 

[Madmax]

With these leds.these dont just beam straight down do they.the leds im looking at say 120 deg light area.i know he mentioned something about it but can remember .i was having a big fat one bout then .

 

[Milson]

With these leds.these dont just beam straight down do they.the leds im looking at say 120 deg light area.i know he mentioned something about it but can remember .i was having a big fat one bout then .

each diode emits light outward and the lens focuses it to one third of a circle. Like picture a peace sign, more or less.

 

[sshz]

Now don't quote me but i thought @Anthem said Gavita removed the lenses's from the 1700e (as opposed to the 1650e's which had them)........... when I ask my buddy at gavita, he said he had no idea- great customer service right there. With the excellent light spread of these LED's, I won't be surprised if there aren't any lense's........

I did see this on one of the retailers site about the Led, which makes me believe it has no lenses.


"Better Design
For too long, LED designers have mimicked traditional HID lights, concentrating diodes in a central position and relying on lenses or reflectors to compensate. As the culmination of years of research and development, the Gavita LED grow light changes this by spreading the diodes out over a much larger area. Eight rails of LEDs are combined together with a lightweight framework, and the result is a light spread that covers the intended 1.2m square space almost perfectly evenly! By spreading the light out, you also spread out the heat. Say goodbye to leaf burn and say hello to a perfectly even, vibrant, and healthy canopy."

 

[_VLAD_]

Sorry for have forgotten but when does defoliation occur in veg? Or when do yoy recommend? Ive got HSO blue dream going and literally have one indica bush and one with decent sativa traits. The indica may could benefit from removing 2 fan leaves to help get light to the nodes. I just dont want to set things back since this is my first go in quite a while.

 

[sshz]

It really depends on who you talk to.........but generally there are two trains of thought:

1. It should take place about 10-14 days before you switch over to flowering to give the plants a chance to recover and start new growth, or

2. Rasta Jeff from Irie Seeds says it should happen the day before or day of switching to flowering, per his defoliation podcast. I recommend everyone who is interested in doing a defoliation do a google search for his podcast, or search the link out in the Orange Gasm or Sweet Zombie threads.

It if it’s just two leaves you are thinking about removing, anytime is fine and it won’t hurt the plant. In true defoliation, you are probably removing anywhere from 8-16 leaves at one time, including the lolipopping down below.

 

[Dr.Green55]

I think the amount of defoliation whether to much or to little is usually noticed in the response of new plant growth.

I think the natural response from the plant after losing a bunch a leaves has nothing to do with yield or flower size etc, but to do with growing more shoots, branches, stretching etc to produce more leaves to replace the ones it lost, whether from wind, rains storms animals etc. I know there has been studies done that show or indicated that plants grow extra leaves in anticipation of losing some. question is how many leaves , when and what ones to remove.

For I found that to be about 20% any more then that and it negatively effects the plant, especially in veg and early flower, leaves are basically a sink or storage. taking to many puts to much extra strain on the plant to get resources from other area's or maybe just not enough., taking to many also effect photosynthesis, but again I seen studies that show plants have build in extra capacity , so they can lose a certain amount of leaves and not be affected.

I know I mentioned this before in messages with SSHZ but I don't generally remove any leaves in veg at all and one fairly heavily prune about 10 to 14 days in flower depending on strain. 1 because of HPS lighting, 2 I don't want to do anything in veg to cause slower growth or even stunted growth for a day or two, 3 no stress etc. I do one fairly heavy prune towards the end of stretch, that way I know what I have for a plant, lower stuff, up the middle and out the branches, after the prune I still expect to add another 3 to 5 bud sites on each branch. after that I slowly remove leaves here and there until end of flower, most of the leaves I remove are dying or covering a flower.

with hps lighting I'm generally not looking for any extra stretch etc in veg, bud sites etc. thats one reason I remove no leaves in veg, however with LED's it could benefit, If under LED's removing leaves cause the plant to stretch a bit, produce more branching bud sites etc thats probably a good thing and will lead to a bigger yield.

Some other things to consider, removing to many leaves from the top could expose to many shade leaves which will stunt growth, as leaves age they lose photosynthetic capacity.

With all that said, I think the type defoliation is specific to each grow and grower for the outcome wanted, However I don't think defoliation is directly related to yield , I think by removing the proper leaves at the right time and in the right amount will trigger the plant to add more growth, stretch, branches bud sites etc to replace the leaves, which could lead to a bigger yield. and by removing leaves that cover up flowers allow the plant to produce a better quality top to bottom .

one exception though was the gasm, I stripped that of leaves at about week 4 of flower and it didn't seem to even affect it, I wish I would have done a control with it though, So I already started my next clones of it. one will get a very heavy defoliation like I did this time and the other will get what I normally do and then I'll compare the 2 at the end of flower. I know all of my other strains that type of defoliation at week 4 would have messed them up, never effected the gasm that I could see. but the control next time will give me a better understanding if it did or didn't

 

[sshz]

So, we can say it’s strain specific and every strain will react differently. I will say I believe sativas react better to it than indicas as they seem to grow faster and put off more leaves. Indicas on the other hand, usually have less leaves but they are way bigger and fatter. These are generalities, there are always exceptions.

Stripping too much too early is really the main problem you can run into........ strategic leaf removal weekly seems to make the most sense- never too many but enough to make a difference in the end.

 

[Dr.Green55]

So, we can say it’s strain specific and every strain will react differently. I will say I believe sativas react better to it than indicas as they seem to grow faster and put off more leaves. Indicas on the other hand, usually have less leaves but they are way bigger and fatter. These are generalities, there are always exceptions.

Stripping too much too early is really the main problem you can run into........ strategic leaf removal weekly seems to make the most sense- never too many but enough to make a difference in the end.

exactly SSHZ, Personally I think once the plant moves from the seedling stage to growth and is taking off well I think that defoliation time line will be different every time, like you say strain specific etc. size of plant etc. and I think you have been doing it spot on.

if you look back through the thread on mar.3rd you did your first defoliation , on mar.9 your already talking about defoliating again and mar.10th you stated about seeing the stretch for the first time. which is clearly seen in the pics. thats exactly how it should be done and what people should be looking for when defoliating, the rapid stretch and growth in the plant to regenerate what it lost. that in the end will benefit yield , more branching, buds etc.

 

[Madmax]

I knew you'd get a plant that stretches more sooner or later.. few of those ethos strains are tall.. when i search strains thats the first thing i look for and flowering duration second.i say this will b your biggest yielder coming up..i bet the ones you cropped are going well.
Ps the seeds are in australia

 

[_VLAD_]

Excellent information here, my final question would be how do you know what to do when 1 strain is putting off different phenotypes? Sshz has a couple that stick out as being diff/mine are 180 of each other literally. So how do you know what to do? Is it strain dependant or sativa phenos get more while indica get less?

Thanks again guys, this forum is flush with information if you want to reach out and grab it

 

[sshz]

Trial and error, over time I'm guessing you'll get a better feel for it. For now, just go slow and only remove leaves that are the largest on the plant and/or blocking bud sites below. If you do this and only this, you'll be well on your way.

 

[_VLAD_]

Thank you.

 

[sshz]

You can also go back to the Orange Gasm thread, where I show numerous examples of before and after pictures and videos of plants in defoliation. It's probably right around the start of flowering. That may be helpful too..........