squarepusher
- 959
- 43
i got an email from cropking the other day. here's the composition of its micros:
solubor/borax, B = 17.5%
Manganese sulfate, Mn = 32%
Zinc sulfate, Zn = 35%
Copper sulfate, Cu = 25%
DNF trace, Mo = 0.66% (i can practically ignore the other elements)
hydrobudy was close and i worked it out by hand.
what about Iron?
cropking repackages its micros into ziploc bags without any labels. they sell a 5 lb bag of iron dpta 11%. i have miller brand iron eddha at 6%. one pound came in its own package, with a label. verify what you have before you use it! hydro buddy doesn't know what you use unless you tell it. i recommend calculating micros by hand. once you know the elemental %, the hand calc is super fast.
crop king has told me not to use any edta chelates as it's poisonous to plants. and really, unless you're a noob, you have a pH pen and you keep it within a very narrow range...so you don't need chelates (or pH perfect). there's no way a respectable grower would let pH go from 4.0 to 10.0. even my diy nutes come out around 6.5 before pH down, and they're buffered (5% ammonium will do this i.e. gg calcium nitrate).
i've sold my mix to a couple local growers, and it may reach some larger operations soon. it won't be long before i'm using haifa minerals, and mixing up 5 gal pails. and to think 8 months ago i was reading an's website to learn about nutes...thank you squarepusher!
hey Crys
Good news, looks like you are up and rolling full force now.
Iron Chelate is poisonous? I would really like to hear them explain that one more, considering they seem to be the standard in the industry
Advanced Nutrients uses them
crop king told me that EDTA is poisonous to plants - they didn't elaborate. take it for what it's worth - they sell iron DPTA, and i've been using EDDHA. It can't be too bad. they're more expensive than sulfates, and imo it's more of a marketing tool than an actual need. chelates have their use on field crops, but indoors in hydroponics, in a neutral medium, with RO water, controlled pH, it's a non issue. they don't hurt anything, but they're not necessary.
and yes, Advanced Nutrients uses them. everybody is copying everybody...and that's how something becomes a 'standard' in the industry. some nutes are just repackaged ag products...which explains why chelates are popular in hydro now.
how would you justify 1,000-10,000% markups? make it seem like voodoo, call yourself an expert, talk above your customer's head, make huge claims, appeal to people's greed, have a guarantee...all classic marketing.
thanks for the link, good point you makeif they knew that their base nutes were calcium deficient in most cases, why didn't they add a few cents' worth of calcium nitrate, instead of packaging it separately and charging 1000x more? is there integrity in that? it may be a quality product, but there's very little value for your money. they're marketing products to cash croppers and med growers with a 400w light alike. also, botanicare's organic line is on the high side for heavy metals.
i can't find the correspondence that said edta is poisonous. i'm sending them an email asking for a reference.
daniel fernandez gives a case for iron dpta being a good compromise between stability, and durability.
http://scienceinhydroponics.com/2010/08/iron-sources-in-hydroponics-which-one-is-the-best.html
I tried the cal nit with mg sul, and when mixed I got chalk. I believe it's the sul and the cal that can't be mixed together in to high of a concentrate.
So I found Mg nit and used it instead of the epsom.
Here's my mix. Take it for what it's worth.
Cal/Mag
Need about 165 ppm of Calcium
Need about 54 ppm of Magnesium
Use 5 ml of Stock Solution per gallon of Reservoir water:
For 1 gallon of Stock Solution to dilute:
Calcium Nitrate 2592.618 grams
Magnesium Nitrate 1669.908 grams
ppm analysis
Compound Actual Predicted % Error
Nitrogen N 199.454 ---- ----
Phosphorus P 0 ---- ----
Potassium K 0 ---- ----
Calcium Ca 165 165 0
Magnesium Mg 54 54 0
Sulfur S 0 ---- ----
Iron Fe 0.005 ---- ----
Boron B 0 ---- ----
Manganese Mn 0 ---- ----
Zinc Zn 0 ---- ----
Copper Cu 0 ---- ----
Molybdate Mo 0 ---- ----
N from Nitrates NO3 127.54 ---- ----
N from Ammonia NH4 11.594 ---- ----
N from Urea (NH2)2CO 0 ---- ----
Chlorine Cl 0 ---- ----
Sodium Na 0 ---- ----
Hope that posted correctly.
Here it is in a another form. Sorry I'm computer stupid.
I tried the cal nit with mg sul, and when mixed I got chalk. I believe it's the sul and the cal that can't be mixed together in to high of a concentrate.
So I found Mg nit and used it instead of the epsom.
Here's my mix. Take it for what it's worth.
Cal/Mag
Need about 165 ppm of Calcium
Need about 54 ppm of Magnesium
Use 5 ml of Stock Solution per gallon of Reservoir water:
For 1 gallon of Stock Solution to dilute:
Calcium Nitrate 2592.618 grams
Magnesium Nitrate 1669.908 grams
ppm analysis
Compound Actual Predicted % Error
Nitrogen N 199.454 ---- ----
Phosphorus P 0 ---- ----
Potassium K 0 ---- ----
Calcium Ca 165 165 0
Magnesium Mg 54 54 0
Sulfur S 0 ---- ----
Iron Fe 0.005 ---- ----
Boron B 0 ---- ----
Manganese Mn 0 ---- ----
Zinc Zn 0 ---- ----
Copper Cu 0 ---- ----
Molybdate Mo 0 ---- ----
N from Nitrates NO3 127.54 ---- ----
N from Ammonia NH4 11.594 ---- ----
N from Urea (NH2)2CO 0 ---- ----
Chlorine Cl 0 ---- ----
Sodium Na 0 ---- ----
Hope that posted correctly.
Here it is in a another form. Sorry I'm computer stupid.
Grams (ounces)
Calcium Nitrate 488.9
(17.25)
Magnesium Sulfate 464.0 (16.37)
Iron Chelate 38.57 (1.36)
[/B]
does anyone have the recipe for the original hammerhead 9/18 derived from sulfate of potash and mono potassium phosphate ?
the new stuff is not the same and they now only sell in quart size . i am alomst out of my 6 gallon jug of the original hammhead ....
id be glad to kick some beans to the one who helps ...
i tried to read through this thread but my life is full of so many distractions i can never get far enough to grasp it
cheers
the Plantex CSM+B looks acceptable. 0.11 g/l will give you 7 ppm iron (is that what you got?). it's not as flexible as individual minerals, and it looks better than dnf trace.
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