Flowering Under 315 Cmh

JMcG · Feb 13, 2017

DemonTrich said:
http://growershouse.com/ceramic-science-315w-cmh-light-conversion-kit

The gen 1 phantom ballasts have issues. Problems were solved with gen2 models.

Sweet. Thanks for the link and the info on the Phantoms. I have been using them for my 600 s and like em!
What do you think of the prism ballast that comes with that kit?

DemonTrich · Feb 13, 2017

I rock all prism ballasts. 3x for veg, 4x for flower. Absolutely perfect. No frills, quality ballast. And I own 2x ballasts as backups.

CreamCorn · Feb 23, 2017

Funkadelic said:
I trust your experience and by extension your friends'.

My buddy who's cheap but big told me these are the best, and I was 100% skeptical. LEDs are *still* not mature. T5s hot and inefficient. Plasmas cost prohibitive. Gavitas/DE's run BOILING HOT and need very tall ceilings, etc etc.
Sooooo much stoner tech hype bullshit for decades, seen it all. Soooo much fail.

But 315s, after exhaustive research here, YouTube videos, tests and comparisons, data, charts, graphs... the PAR, color, efficiency, temps, yields, penetration, cross lighting, bulb longevity, just ALL THE DATA theres literally no comparison.

My Solistek digi adjustables were unbeatable when I got them. Now Im planning them at 400w instead of the 1000/1100w they can push, and going with a dozen Boulders. The Boulders daisy chain! Up to 6! And they're adding LED pontoons for spectrum soon, plug right into units they attach to!

Adding 2 x 220v outlets gets me 12 (!) 315s, no need for control box just timer them (easy!), and dramatic increases in PAR, color, etc.
Will go to under 7000w down from 8800 (8 x 1100w overdrive HPS), lower heat, increase light and yields probably dramatically. Eliminate need for 2nd 3ton minisplit ($5k installed) and not need to spend a grand on bulbs every couple rounds. PLUS have open bulb 2k color HPS verticals paired with 315s for each tree.

And if Im correct, 315s have a share of UVB which helps kill bugs and mildew.

I see no problems except my time wasted and problems with 1000/1100w HPS in this build thats given me fits.

Sorry for long reply. I thoroughly trust @We Solidarity and the exhaustive, highly skeptical research Ive done. 315s are mature, for auto showrooms, developed by Philips, and give us plasma results for a fraction.

AND they can go veg to bloom, no spectrum shock nor different lights needed. Am I missing something?

Just wondering if you switched over. If so how are the results?
Have a couple other questions but I'll wait to see if your using them. Thanks.

DemonTrich · Feb 23, 2017

315 rock. You won't be disappointed with them. If you are, you did something wrong.

CreamCorn · Feb 23, 2017

DemonTrich said:
315 rock. You won't be disappointed with them. If you are, you did something wrong.

In my flower room I currently run 4 8" raptor air cooled hood with dual sockets. In each hood I run a 600w hps and a 600w mh. It's worked well for me but if I can get a better quality product while saving energy and increasing my yield it sounds like a no brainer. My first concern is heat. Where these are airs cooled I'm wondering if my room will get to hot. My other concern is are the claims of the cmh real or a sales gimmick. I figured I would need 12 of the 315's. I'm not afraid to spend money but I am afraid throwing it away. If the return on investment is after a grow or 2 sign me up, if not where I just changed all my bulbs I might revisit this in 6 months to a year and see where they are at and where prices are.

DemonTrich · Feb 23, 2017

My record pull with 3x60phps is a little over 4lbs dry and cured. My 1st pull with 4x315cmh pulled my normal average 3x600hps yields. But it did so only using 1260w vs 1800w of power. Plus my ac doesn't need to run as often with the cmh vs hps lights.

Bottom line, you get almost the same yields, but using about half the power.

CreamCorn · Feb 23, 2017

So they are good and will save me some money but it's hard to justify spending money to save money. If the quality and yield also increased like many state (I feel this might be over stating especially the claims of cutting flower time) it would be a much easier decision.

CreamCorn · Feb 23, 2017

DemonTrich said:
My record pull with 3x60phps is a little over 4lbs dry and cured. My 1st pull with 4x315cmh pulled my normal average 3x600hps yields. But it did so only using 1260w vs 1800w of power. Plus my ac doesn't need to run as often with the cmh vs hps lights.

Bottom line, you get almost the same yields, but using about half the power.

The 600hps you were using were those in a sealed air cooled hood?

DemonTrich · Feb 23, 2017

CreamCorn said:
The 600hps you were using were those in a sealed air cooled hood?

Yes, sealed ac hoods. Comparisons were with same.co2 usage, same strains, same everything but lighting was only variable. See my demons 4x315cmh grow diary for details and pics of finished and cured buds.

As with anything in this game, it takes money to make money. And it takes money to save money as well. With the power costs saved, .you 2300 cmh investment will pay itself off in 6 months of use. Not to mention, veg growth is off the charts with 3x315 4k bulbs vs any previous 4+yrs or running 3x600mh. HUGE stalks and very quick growth. I'm cutting another week off my veg times since the change.

CreamCorn · Feb 23, 2017

I get it takes money to make money but to change out all my hps lamps I would need 32 plus cmh. That's a lot of cash to save $500 a month on my electric bill.

DemonTrich · Feb 23, 2017

But the saving keep adding up month after month, after month.

dan1989 · Feb 23, 2017

DemonTrich said:
315 rock. You won't be disappointed with them. If you are, you did something wrong.

How are they as far as efficiency goes? Will my electricity bill love it or hate it?

DemonTrich · Feb 23, 2017

315 watts vs 600 watts
About half the power draw for nearly the same yields. And very little heat vs 600s

CreamCorn · Feb 23, 2017

CreamCorn said:
I get it takes money to make money but to change out all my hps lamps I would need 32 plus cmh. That's a lot of cash to save $500 a month on my electric bill.

So spend $14k to save $6k a year? It will take 2 years to break even. A lot can happen in 2 years. Again if my quality and yield improved it's an easier sell. I grow larger plants and I am worried about the light penetration as well. Heat is also a big concern. I get they run cooler but will and exposed cmh bulb really run cooler than a 600w hps in an air cooled hood? Not willing to upgrade all my a/c even if the yield an quality improves but both are very good already.

MIMedGrower · Feb 23, 2017

CreamCorn said:
So spend $14k to save $6k a year? It will take 2 years to break even. A lot can happen in 2 years. Again if my quality and yield improved it's an easier sell. I grow larger plants and I am worried about the light penetration as well. Heat is also a big concern. I get they run cooler but will and exposed cmh bulb really run cooler than a 600w hps in an air cooled hood? Not willing to upgrade all my a/c even if the yield an quality improves but both are very good already.

I run 600w HPS in sealed air cooled Blockbuster 6" reflectors and recently added a Sun System 315 LEC and I feel more heat coming off my open 315 than the air cooled 600's. However it is easily handled by a couple of fans blowing under it and above the canopy. And of course exhausted out with an inline fan.

As far as penetration. The 600's grow larger denser lowers with my 3' tall plants but only by a little bit. But enough that I noticed less density and less weight overall. However the quality of taste and high is higher than hps alone. And with more resin production.

Also. My 600's have an effective footprint of about 3.5' x 3.5' under the very direct down Blockbuster hoods. The Sun System Vertical mount open LEC hood has only a 2.5' x 2.5' footprint. The plants lean in for better light beyond that area.

I use 2 600w HPS in a 3.5' x 7' area. I would need 3 315's to cover the same area.

I am going to use the LEC in between the 2 600's on a 4' x 8' area in my next build. Or possibly 1-1 every 3.5 x6.

It also seems to keep plants happier than hps alone. The overlap area always has the best buds. So I rotate plants around to receive equal light spectrums as much as possible.

And my transitioning plants from fluorescent veg are happier under the LEC than hps when first put in.

Hope this helps.

CreamCorn · Feb 23, 2017

That helps a lot. Thanks. I run a sealed room and can not handle the added heat of an open bulb. I figured they would run hotter than an air cooled hood. I don't think the cmh will penetrate enough for me. I currently flower in a mix of hps and mh, I don't think the the cmh will offer enough improvement of quality or yield.

MIMedGrower · Feb 23, 2017

CreamCorn said:
That helps a lot. Thanks. I run a sealed room and can not handle the added heat of an open bulb. I figured they would run hotter than an air cooled hood. I don't think the cmh will penetrate enough for me. I currently flower in a mix of hps and mh, I don't think the the cmh will offer enough improvement of quality or yield.

I kind of disagree. You can just run them in air cooled hoods and they have a better spectrum and more par than a 400mh or 600 conversion mh.

I love them combined with hps. And at about 16" they have max par vertically according to tests. I have no problem with the power just the footprint is smaller.

And they are supposed to last 2 years with minimal degradation so they are less than half the cost of replacement bulbs over time.

CreamCorn · Feb 23, 2017

They cant be run in air cooled hoods. I thought about the combined but their foot print is so small unless you move your plants around (I can't I grow rdwc) they are useless.

MIMedGrower · Feb 23, 2017

CreamCorn said:
They cant be run in air cooled hoods. I thought about the combined but their foot print is so small unless you move your plants around (I can't I grow rdwc) they are useless.

Sunlight supply sells specific air cooled reflectors for them in 1 and 2 bulb configurations.

And there are mogul socket conversions so you can use any hid reflector. I did a lot of research before I had the guts to change anything in my room.

Personally I like them as supplemental lighting but I am still experimenting. I have a Hortilux 600w Blue MH, a Hortilux 600w Super HPS and Phillips 315w CMH 3100k going right now.

I really like what I have been seeing as I add more spectrum. But I don't care how you light your room. You just need to be happy. I wasn't trying to sell you anything. Just share my knowledge.

CreamCorn · Feb 23, 2017

Interesting I thought I read it's not recommend due to the air and glass taken away from the bulbs performance or something. The glass one are even more expensive which makes less sense for me to convert over. Even if I converted my hoods I still wouldn't have enough light and would still have to buy some.

Not saying they aren't worth it, I would probably be buying these if I was starting over. I do feel the claims and hype is overstated and aren't really worth someone scrapping their current setup to switch over.

Flowering Under 315 Cmh

Flowering Under 315 Cmh

JMcG

DemonTrich

CreamCorn

DemonTrich

CreamCorn

DemonTrich

CreamCorn

CreamCorn

DemonTrich

CreamCorn

DemonTrich

dan1989

DemonTrich

CreamCorn

MIMedGrower

CreamCorn

MIMedGrower

CreamCorn

MIMedGrower

CreamCorn

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