Frankster's Diagnostic Helpline; post your problem child here.

Frankster · Oct 27, 2021

Plant pistol's look relatively straight and happy, so I think overall you look good. If I made any adjustments, I would do them very precisely. Cause you look pretty good there, overall IMO.

Goblinkiller said:
Thanks for the response. I am using oldtimers plant magic bloom nutrient. Its organic. But I water til a little runoff and thats a no no in organic. So I cant say I am 100% organic. But I like to mix in ewc on top and use aloe vera leaves sometimes.

Just keep in mind that phos is only good for so long, then needs to be dropped off again. Should be good for the next week or two, I suspect. I think your on the right track though, looking at things overall. I might give a tad more calcium, and N right now, if anything. Perhaps just micro adjust the formulation a little, not much.

Goblinkiller · Oct 27, 2021

Thanks for the directions! When you say phos i assume you mean organic phosphate last shorter? Or do you refer to the earth worm compost i mentioned?

Frankster · Oct 28, 2021

Goblinkiller said:
Thanks for the directions! When you say phos i assume you mean organic phosphate last shorter? Or do you refer to the earth worm compost i mentioned?

I'm saying added phosphate is only needed for the next two weeks, then drop it off again, and continue on with your overall nutrient base solution. Or back to amendments, whatever is your core solution.

think of phosphate along the lines of protein loading. Your body can only take so many grams, then then it becomes saturated. Once you get your bulk, after week 4, drop it off again, if it's wanting more, throw your base formula at it. Not, extra phosphates it can't absorb.
There should be sufficient phos in your base formula to carry you the rest of the way, in this respect. After phosphate;

After week 4, Calcium, sulfur, and mag w/micro's & acids, become far more important to driving growth. In combination with pH, enzymes, cofactors, secondary metabolites, ect. Maintaining good water hydraulics become far more important.

Goblinkiller · Oct 28, 2021

Thats a wholesome reply frankster. Thanks again for educating me. Always appreciated! I have noticed watering is more critical in the flower part.

I have not fiddled around with extra phos. I only do oldtimers organic nutes for the moment. With added calmag. And the occasional ewc top dress

One can easily get lost in the additions of things so I try and not mix too many things.

I added enzymes for the first time the last round, the plant struggled and the enzymes helped a lot for that case. Is this something you add regularly even if you dont see the need for it ?

Frankster · Oct 28, 2021

Goblinkiller said:
Thats a wholesome reply frankster. Thanks again for educating me. Always appreciated! I have noticed watering is more critical in the flower part.

I have not fiddled around with extra phos. I only do oldtimers organic nutes for the moment. With added calmag. And the occasional ewc top dress

One can easily get lost in the additions of things so I try and not mix too many things.

I added enzymes for the first time the last round, the plant struggled and the enzymes helped a lot for that case. Is this something you add regularly even if you dont see the need for it ?

I create much of my enzyme activity, although I do add a few things occasionally that help the process along. I create my microbes, and my enzymes, in vitro. Especially during flower. I use a tiny bit of various sugars to promote bacterial activity, I do some fermentation. But getting those microbes supercharged comes with some risk, cause pH balance is of paramount importance.

Some organisms have very short life cycles.

It's a really complex subject, TBH, cause nitrification drives things one direction, while other processes drive pH downward. So keeping pH optimal becomes a focal point. No matter the method.

Frankster · Nov 3, 2021

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sambapati · Nov 4, 2021

Frankster said:
View attachment 1185042

Data is rolling a bomber in this photo....

PipeCarver · Nov 4, 2021

Frankster said:
Post it up, or ask.

Alright, thought I would maybe make a thread for this sort of thing, instead of doing it though PM all the time. I've thrown around this idea for some time. Post up questions; (with pics please, and relevant background/historical information) answers can be offered by anyone/everyone. Please feel free offer up a solution, if you know an answer.

Rules; Keep it civil, be respectful.
No making fun, or belittling someone's grow; ie. that will not be tolerated, and the offending comments will be removed.
Have fun, and maybe learn something.

That is all. This is the conclusion of the emergency grow broadcast system;
Some bud porn for time.
View attachment 1179276 View attachment 1179274

View attachment 1179272 View attachment 1179273

Okay Frankster, I have an issue with a plant that is doing odd things the first weeks into flowering.

I have this Jet Orange I grew from seeds I found in dried bud I was gifted. He said it was from pollen and not from hermies. (No hermies here) This mother of 2 during the first 2 weeks on 12/12 it shot up very fast and got up close to my reflector where I thought the leaf problem I was seeing was heat stress so I moved the plant back but all the leaves curled and the buds stalled in growing...The leaf stems are brittle very very brittle and snap when bending with the least amount of pressure

.Okay I thought fk it I'll grow it out anyways I liked the smoke. I have 2 clones from her I put into flower maybe 14 days ago and 1 is doing the same thing..... All my plants get the same feed at this stage it's still veg nutes....5ml/5ml/5ml/ + 2ml up/ gallon GH trio and water in between.( promix)...the pics are from the flower room this morning...None of my other plants have done this I have 10 others in the same room growing fine it is just these Jet Orange

Now at 8 weeks today this plants buds look like they're at 4 weeks not 8

Frankster · Nov 6, 2021

PipeCarver said:
Okay Frankster, I have an issue with a plant that is doing odd things the first weeks into flowering.

I have this Jet Orange I grew from seeds I found in dried bud I was gifted. He said it was from pollen and not from hermies. (No hermies here) This mother of 2 during the first 2 weeks on 12/12 it shot up very fast and got up close to my reflector where I thought the leaf problem I was seeing was heat stress so I moved the plant back but all the leaves curled and the buds stalled in growing...The leaf stems are brittle very very brittle and snap when bending with the least amount of pressure

.Okay I thought fk it I'll grow it out anyways I liked the smoke. I have 2 clones from her I put into flower maybe 14 days ago and 1 is doing the same thing..... All my plants get the same feed at this stage it's still veg nutes....5ml/5ml/5ml/ + 2ml up/ gallon GH trio and water in between.( promix)...the pics are from the flower room this morning...None of my other plants have done this I have 10 others in the same room growing fine it is just these Jet Orange

Now at 8 weeks today this plants buds look like they're at 4 weeks not 8

sorry about the late response, looks like N excess to me, primarily. Probably involved in the stretch also, somehow. I bet those are big straws also, bust easily. Somehow potassium is involved here as well. Could be a pH related issue as well.

I would suggest a tad of silicon dioxide, a good base nutrient like master blend 4-18-38 with minerals, +50% mag/sulfate, some calcium hydroxide to dial it in. Maybe some fluvics, aminos. containing N is always an issue with hydro, so I take a different approach than most.

I get much of my N from amino acid sources in flowering.
What is your regime? Those are solos?

PipeCarver · Nov 6, 2021

Frankster said:
sorry about the late response, looks like N excess to me, primarily. Probably involved in the stretch also, somehow. I bet those are big straws also, bust easily. Somehow potassium is involved here as well. Could be a pH related issue as well.

I would suggest a tad of silicon dioxide, a good base nutrient like master blend 4-18-38 with minerals, +50% mag/sulfate, some calcium hydroxide to dial it in. Maybe some fluvics, aminos. containing N is always an issue with hydro, so I take a different approach than most.

I get much of my N from amino acid sources in flowering.
What is your regime? Those are solos?

Well I cut them down. I know they are not over fed I feed up to 5ml/5ml/5ml every second water when my girls are over a month old and I lead up to that starting at 1/1/1 -- 3/3/3 --5/5/5 and in those big 5 gallon pots they only get feed every 10 days..every 5 -6 days they dry...No other plants have ever done that to me. I have a J/ GSC on both sides and they're fine..

I had 1 at 8 weeks and 2 of her clones at 41/2' tall 2 weeks in flower and I pulled them both I need the space, I read that warning piece on Hop Latent Viroid that 1diesle1 posted but I got ignored on his post, I don't know for sure but.. the symptoms being very close to what I saw with these girls...brittle leaves.stems,& stalks, narrowing and curling of the leaves and under performing buds. The plant I cut yesterday looks like 4 weeks of flower with small airy buds with very little smell. When I cut the stalk I made a small cut then snapped it off at about 1.1/2 " diameter the stalk just snapped and broke away.....that doesn't happen ever something was off

BirdLaw86 · Nov 6, 2021

PipeCarver said:
Well I cut them down. I know they are not over fed I feed up to 5ml/5ml/5ml every second water when my girls are over a month old and I lead up to that starting at 1/1/1 -- 3/3/3 --5/5/5 and in those big 5 gallon pots they only get feed every 10 days..every 5 -6 days they dry...No other plants have ever done that to me. I have a J/ GSC on both sides and they're fine..

I had 1 at 8 weeks and 2 of her clones at 41/2' tall 2 weeks in flower and I pulled them both I need the space, I read that warning piece on Hop Latent Viroid that 1diesle1 posted but I got ignored on his post, I don't know for sure but.. the symptoms being very close to what I saw with these girls...brittle leaves.stems,& stalks, narrowing and curling of the leaves and under performing buds. The plant I cut yesterday looks like 4 weeks of flower with small airy buds with very little smell. When I cut the stalk I made a small cut then snapped it off at about 1.1/2 " diameter the stalk just snapped and broke away.....that doesn't happen ever something was off

Pipe are these grown in soil, is there microbiology in your medium? I ask bc i want to know if this virus can infect a plant with a healthy beneficial microbial root zone

PipeCarver · Nov 6, 2021

BirdLaw86 said:
Pipe are these grown in soil, is there microbiology in your medium? I ask bc i want to know if this virus can infect a plant with a healthy beneficial microbial root zone

These are grown in Promix, no beneficial microbe's in this soil...I don't think it matters whats in the soil its a plant virus that's genetic & starts with the seeds if I read it right.

BirdLaw86 · Nov 6, 2021

Not only seeds, it can be spread through tools also, so if it can be spread, Id assume its not only genetic and therefore may not fair as well when the plant has the healthy root zone. Its known that the beneficial microbes and fungi act as a shield and protect the plant. If its carried through the genetics then your thinking may be correct however its worth a thought. Someone else just posted that a cold flu medicine was used to treat the new virus and seemed to have worked.

PipeCarver · Nov 6, 2021

BirdLaw86 said:
Not only seeds, it can be spread through tools also, so if it can be spread, Id assume its not only genetic and therefore may not fair as well when the plant has the healthy root zone. Its known that the beneficial microbes and fungi act as a shield and protect the plant. If its carried through the genetics then your thinking may be correct however its worth a thought. Someone else just posted that a cold flu medicine was used to treat the new virus and seemed to have worked.

Ya once you get it your tools can spread it but I think you've got to bring the bug in first with the seeds or someone else's tools. I don't think its air born, they don't make no masks for my plants.......yet

BirdLaw86 · Nov 6, 2021

Pandemic pot plant masks
Amazon will be out of stock the first week

Frankster · Nov 6, 2021

PipeCarver said:
Well I cut them down. I know they are not over fed I feed up to 5ml/5ml/5ml every second water when my girls are over a month old and I lead up to that starting at 1/1/1 -- 3/3/3 --5/5/5 and in those big 5 gallon pots they only get feed every 10 days..every 5 -6 days they dry...No other plants have ever done that to me. I have a J/ GSC on both sides and they're fine..

I had 1 at 8 weeks and 2 of her clones at 41/2' tall 2 weeks in flower and I pulled them both I need the space, I read that warning piece on Hop Latent Viroid that 1diesle1 posted but I got ignored on his post, I don't know for sure but.. the symptoms being very close to what I saw with these girls...brittle leaves.stems,& stalks, narrowing and curling of the leaves and under performing buds. The plant I cut yesterday looks like 4 weeks of flower with small airy buds with very little smell. When I cut the stalk I made a small cut then snapped it off at about 1.1/2 " diameter the stalk just snapped and broke away.....that doesn't happen ever something was off

Potassium is what usually causes that, excess/insufficient potassium. Is it possible they got some extra potassium somehow? When I've seen round frail drinking straws, and lots of stretch during early flower, it's usually potassium, or some sort of pH acid issues.

When the pH gets skewed, only certain nutrients are absorbing correctly, so it creates a faux nutrient issue. Where N, and the metals might be alright, but P, K, , Mg+, and sometimes Ca+ are being restricted, then eventually accumulate in excess, cause there not being absorbed.

PipeCarver · Nov 6, 2021

BirdLaw86 said:
Not only seeds, it can be spread through tools also, so if it can be spread, Id assume its not only genetic and therefore may not fair as well when the plant has the healthy root zone. Its known that the beneficial microbes and fungi act as a shield and protect the plant. If its carried through the genetics then your thinking may be correct however its worth a thought. Someone else just posted that a cold flu medicine was used to treat the new virus and seemed to have worked.

Ya once you get it your tools can spread it but I think you've got to bring the bug in first with the seeds or someone else's tools. I don't think its air born, they don't make no masks for my plants.......yet

Frankster said:
Potassium is what usually causes that, excess/insufficient potassium. Is it possible they got some extra potassium somehow? When I've seen round frail drinking straws, and lots of stretch during early flower, it's usually potassium, or some sort of pH acid issues.

When the pH gets skewed, only certain nutrients are absorbing correctly, so it creates a faux nutrient issue. Where N, and the metals might be alright, but P, K, , Mg+, and sometimes Ca+ are being restricted, then eventually accumulate in excess, cause there not being absorbed.
View attachment 1185990

Its possible the mother got too much or too little but it would be a freak if I did that to only the Jet Orange plants..... PH has been steady with the clones...the mother did have an issue when I transplanted into the 5 gallon pot I got ppm readings in the 1800's after a heavy watering & low ph in the mid 5's I topped with dolomite lime, she was still in veg . It came down to the 700's though before I flipped. & low 6's PH...I was told it could have been a false reading from the new peat soil because I'd not fed it enough to be close to those numbers.

Like I said I harvested the mother & I turfed the 2 clones, I used their pots to transplant into to day after a good washing and an alcohol bath and I moved to nice 2 month old Bubble Bomb in their place

Frankster · Nov 6, 2021

BirdLaw86 said:
Pandemic pot plant masks
Amazon will be out of stock the first week

Sure, virus can happen, but I think microbes are hugely important, regardless if your doing organic grow, or working with salts. Microbes and secondary metabolites are huge factors, and without them, the plants simply don't express themselves to the full potentials. They also create necessary enzymes, precursors, co factors that speed plant growth, and mount stress response.

I put microbes up there with some of the more important factors. Light, temp, pH, RH, nutrients. It's a definite chink in the armor.

Frankster · Nov 7, 2021

PipeCarver said:
Ya once you get it your tools can spread it but I think you've got to bring the bug in first with the seeds or someone else's tools. I don't think its air born, they don't make no masks for my plants.......yet

Fungi and rot can be transferred by this method also. I always, always, keep a bottle of 99% isopropyl so I can saturate a paper towel, or cloth and clean my shears from tops too handles, then I wash my hands. If I touch anything, I wash again. If I start on something questionable, I wash between. I always do the same between cleaning plants. I'm a Nazi about sterility anymore, and it's a real thing.

I don't even vacuum in the house anymore. Only sweep and them mop things up, always after dust. Keep that air dry, clean.

Madmax · Nov 7, 2021

Heeey..i got one for you..its my own problem i have with the plants not uptaking water but are taking up the nutrients..its basically started 2 weeks or so ago.

Im at day 39 in flower 4 gal watering once a day.max temp lights on was 27 deg c ..rh between 52% -62% ..lights off temps between 22deg c up to 26deg c but mostly around 23-24.5 rh average 56% .leaf temps 22.5-25.7 feeding 510 ppm at 5.8-60.runoff is under what im giving them between 50 on one to 200 on another.plants looks dark considering and had white tips which are yellow..ive had this every grow hence why i cant feed them more as not taking up equal amounts of water to nutrients..ive backed off the heat a little down to mm 26deg now (extraction fan comes on at 26.3) id say its got to do with this vpd shit or the intensity of the light..i cant lift it up anymore either....light is lumatek zues pro 600w led..
cheers in advance

Frankster's Diagnostic Helpline; post your problem child here.

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Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.

Goblinkiller

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.

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Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.

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