Grow Room A/C

[MrBelvedere]

@CannabisJohn thanks for all the incredible advice and support you give here! Learned a hell of a lot just reading through some of the pages. Is there any minisplits or other units you recommend that granular humidity control? I have seen some that offer humidity modes (false advertising?), I have not seen ones that let you dial-in the humidity level to exactly what you want. In other words even if the AC was not being used, the fan mode would reduce the humidity to a level you specify? And in ac or heat mode it would keep that setting? Is there a third-party HVAC thermostat that would somehow work with a third-party humidifier/dehumidifier? Meaning the thermostat would control RH and temp nearly perfectly? What thermostat models and humidifier/dehumidifier would u recommend if a mini split could not do it all on its own ?

From what I'm reading it's better to keep everything separate?

Thx!

 

[KtidyFarms]

Hi there,
Interesting thread, I am also an hvac pro and been growing for over 20 years. Has any one considered the diakin units, I really like Mitsubishi and when it comes to vrf systems they are the only ones I would install, but when it comes to these smaller systems I think some of you people should check out the diakins. I also believe you can get diakins at johnstone supply which you'll have much better luck than buying from gensco.

 

[pugliese63]

Mitshubushi Mr Slim.

Will this unit operate year round?

I live in the south where the winters are mild and have an Ideal Air unit that wont operate once temps get into the 50's. I installed a low ambient fan motor controller from ICM. It reduced the efficiency of the unit substantially and the it still shuts down once the temps get into the low 50's upper 40's. It gives the code E4 which I've been told by Ideal Air refers to the ambient temp outdoors being to cold.

I've tried a number of things recommended by the good people at Ideal Air. Everything from covering about 75% of the intake with cardboard to building a housing over it to try to retain some heat. The cardboard trick worked for a few days. Nothing worked more than about a half an hour.

I HATE THIS UNIT! My live is miserable continually battling this every day.

Why in the hell do they market this to indoor growers?

I have an older Frost Box that runs along side this one in an 8K room, both 24000 BTU units. The Frost Box is an inverter model and runs no matter the temps, even well below freezing without problems.

I'm debating on:

1: going the distance and replacing both units with a 4 ton Excel Air XL system or

2: replacing the Ideal Air unit with a 24000 BTU inverter type such as Mitsubishi. I have no problem getting a kit and doing the installation myself.

My concern with Excel Air is that it comes with a low ambient fan motor unit factory installed.

How effective are these in cold temps, i.e. low 50's down to freezing?

Will I have similar problems to what I'm experiencing now?

Would the inverter be the better purchase?

I know you like the Mr. Slim. Your recommendation would be greatly appreciated. I need to solve this problem for good.

Thanks.

 

[blazer]

A Mr. Slim inverter system will def work in cold weather I believe down to the single digits if using a heat pump model.
Your other unit should work in 50 degree's it has a low ambient kit installed maybe a improper charge messing with stuff.

@MrBelvedere closest I've seen to a unit with humidifier built in is a very pricey but awesome liebert systems!

 

[pugliese63]

A Mr. Slim inverter system will def work in cold weather I believe down to the single digits if using a heat pump model.
Your other unit should work in 50 degree's it has a low ambient kit installed maybe a improper charge messing with stuff.

@MrBelvedere closest I've seen to a unit with humidifier built in is a very pricey but awesome liebert systems!

Thanks for your reply.

I agree, my Ideal Air unit should work. Unfortunately the techs at Ideal Air said that even with the low ambient kit that under 50 was really pushing it. It also really reduced the efficiency. I'd have to set it at 72 to get the temps down to 80. This caused the unit to run until it shut down.

My Frost Box is a cooling only unit and works like a champ. Frost Box doesn't have a great rep especially since they disappeared suddenly a few years ago.

I'm going to move the Ideal Air unit to my home where it will operate under normal conditions this summer.

The Mitsubishi seems like the right unit. The price is much more attractive than replacing the whole system.

I really just want a solid solution. Right now I'm barely keeping temps in my room. Fortunately the weather is cool and helping out.

@MrBelvedere , Excel Air's Elite series has built in dehumidifier. They're expensive but I think if you factor in the price of using separate dehumidifiers it all comes out about the same.

 

[blazer]

Really sounds Like something going on with the charge or something should be able to cool at 50 with a low ambient kit, did it ever cool right did work ok in the summer peak times?

 

[KtidyFarms]

It sounds like your unit might be a little low on charge if you are still getting error after installing head pressure control. Did your control use a temperature sensor or a pressure sensor for liquid line? if a pressure sensor may want to make sure its not leaking or that when you installed it that you didn't let to much refrigerant out when you installed it, if its a temp sensor and not installed in the proper place it can cause problems.

 

[CannabisJohn]

Hi there,
Interesting thread, I am also an hvac pro and been growing for over 20 years. Has any one considered the diakin units, I really like Mitsubishi and when it comes to vrf systems they are the only ones I would install, but when it comes to these smaller systems I think some of you people should check out the diakins. I also believe you can get diakins at johnstone supply which you'll have much better luck than buying from gensco.

I have run across a few of those units and all had problems. Mitsubushi is better IMO.

 

[CannabisJohn]

Will this unit operate year round?

I live in the south where the winters are mild and have an Ideal Air unit that wont operate once temps get into the 50's. I installed a low ambient fan motor controller from ICM. It reduced the efficiency of the unit substantially and the it still shuts down once the temps get into the low 50's upper 40's. It gives the code E4 which I've been told by Ideal Air refers to the ambient temp outdoors being to cold.

I've tried a number of things recommended by the good people at Ideal Air. Everything from covering about 75% of the intake with cardboard to building a housing over it to try to retain some heat. The cardboard trick worked for a few days. Nothing worked more than about a half an hour.

I HATE THIS UNIT! My live is miserable continually battling this every day.

Why in the hell do they market this to indoor growers?

I have an older Frost Box that runs along side this one in an 8K room, both 24000 BTU units. The Frost Box is an inverter model and runs no matter the temps, even well below freezing without problems.

I'm debating on:

1: going the distance and replacing both units with a 4 ton Excel Air XL system or

2: replacing the Ideal Air unit with a 24000 BTU inverter type such as Mitsubishi. I have no problem getting a kit and doing the installation myself.

My concern with Excel Air is that it comes with a low ambient fan motor unit factory installed.

How effective are these in cold temps, i.e. low 50's down to freezing?

Will I have similar problems to what I'm experiencing now?

Would the inverter be the better purchase?

I know you like the Mr. Slim. Your recommendation would be greatly appreciated. I need to solve this problem for good.

Thanks.

Only seen problems with Ideal Air. Mitsubishi is much better. IMO Excel is way overpriced.

 

[KtidyFarms]

I'm up in the Portland Or area and have been installing mini splits since they came out and I do agree that Mitsubishi is an awesome product. That being said diakin is just another choice and they are both equal in efficiency, operation, quiet, ect.. So just curious what type of problems you saw, sounds like you didn't install them. You know as we'll as I do a system is only as good as the person that installed it. Anyhow great job on this thread and just thought I would throw an option out there for them.

 

[MrBelvedere]

Anybody using this thermostat? @O.O looks awesome.

http://www.lockstateconnect.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/LS-90-Operation-Guide.pdf

http://www.lockstateconnect.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/LS-90-Installation-Guide.pdf

http://t.homedepot.com/p/LockState-...Free-iPhone-App-LS-90i/203164774?N=5yc1vZc5kl

Part of the LockState Connect internet controlled device system for your home, the LS-90i WiFi Programmable Thermostat helps better manage home heating and cooling. Control your thermostat from an internet connected computer or smartphone from anywhere in the world. Whether you are at work, on vacation or on the road, view and control your heating and cooling settings and even adjust program settings. Set up alerts to be notified when certain conditions are met or exceeded.

• 7-day scheduling and programming for up to seven independent periods per day for consistent heating and cooling patterns
• Able to control 3 stages of heat and 2 stages of cool. This allows for more precise temperature regulation and less fluctuation with today's most sophisticated HVAC systems.
• Works with nearly every HVAC system - including traditional furnaces and heat pumps
• Easy to use menu system with large backlit touch screen display
• True auto mode to switch automatically between heat and cool depending on environmental factors
• Ability to control an external air baffle, external humidifier AND de-humidifier
• Monitor and control your HVAC system based on humidity as well as temperature
• Must have either power from the furnace ("C" or "Common" wire) or an external transformer to power the thermostat in order to run the Wi-Fi module
• Must have Wi-Fi router and a laptop or smartphone with Wi-Fi connectivity to provision thermostat
• Connections: C, H, B, O, W, W2, W3, Y1, Y2, RH, RC, G, A, DH, EX
• Target temperature range: 47F to 95F
• Search the app store for LS CONNECT or visit
• App available on iPhone and iPad
• 7-Day programmable thermostat is WiFi internet capable

 

[O.O]

Anybody using this thermostat? @O.O looks awesome.

http://www.lockstateconnect.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/LS-90-Operation-Guide.pdf

http://www.lockstateconnect.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/LS-90-Installation-Guide.pdf

http://t.homedepot.com/p/LockState-...Free-iPhone-App-LS-90i/203164774?N=5yc1vZc5kl

Part of the LockState Connect internet controlled device system for your home, the LS-90i WiFi Programmable Thermostat helps better manage home heating and cooling. Control your thermostat from an internet connected computer or smartphone from anywhere in the world. Whether you are at work, on vacation or on the road, view and control your heating and cooling settings and even adjust program settings. Set up alerts to be notified when certain conditions are met or exceeded.

• 7-day scheduling and programming for up to seven independent periods per day for consistent heating and cooling patterns
• Able to control 3 stages of heat and 2 stages of cool. This allows for more precise temperature regulation and less fluctuation with today's most sophisticated HVAC systems.
• Works with nearly every HVAC system - including traditional furnaces and heat pumps
• Easy to use menu system with large backlit touch screen display
• True auto mode to switch automatically between heat and cool depending on environmental factors
• Ability to control an external air baffle, external humidifier AND de-humidifier
• Monitor and control your HVAC system based on humidity as well as temperature
• Must have either power from the furnace ("C" or "Common" wire) or an external transformer to power the thermostat in order to run the Wi-Fi module
• Must have Wi-Fi router and a laptop or smartphone with Wi-Fi connectivity to provision thermostat
• Connections: C, H, B, O, W, W2, W3, Y1, Y2, RH, RC, G, A, DH, EX
• Target temperature range: 47F to 95F
• Search the app store for LS CONNECT or visit
• App available on iPhone and iPad
• 7-Day programmable thermostat is WiFi internet capable

The only feature this thermostat is missing is a remote sensor.

Electronics and gardens vegging at 80F, 75% RH aren't a good mix.

Add CO2 anywhere in the range of 600 PPM on the front end and peaking in veg (4 weeks) at 1500 PPM.

Had one fail due to the humidity.

I don't like having electronics in the grow rooms, its a pretty harsh environment. They have a great warranty group as well. I told the rep in their warranty department that I had it in a garden and that I really thought they were great units. He overnighted me a replacement on warranty and paid for shipping on the return. It was the red carpet. They were great!

These thermostats are a great bang for the $$! Perhaps I should share a photo.

 

[O.O]

 

[CannabisJohn]

I'm up in the Portland Or area and have been installing mini splits since they came out and I do agree that Mitsubishi is an awesome product. That being said diakin is just another choice and they are both equal in efficiency, operation, quiet, ect.. So just curious what type of problems you saw, sounds like you didn't install them. You know as we'll as I do a system is only as good as the person that installed it. Anyhow great job on this thread and just thought I would throw an option out there for them.

I had 2 that had condenser fan motors fail in a few months.

 

[pugliese63]

Only seen problems with Ideal Air. Mitsubishi is much better. IMO Excel is way overpriced.

Thank you. Much appreciated.

 

[blazer]

View attachment 488761 View attachment 488762 View attachment 488761

Sweet Setup using the taco boards to run the relays?

 

[O.O]

Sweet Setup using the taco boards to run the relays?

Yes, depending on the amps. I try to keep all control 24v. Much easier to integrate. The TACO's are pretty expensive, susceptible to circuit board failures, etc...

Much better to go with Contactors. Great bang for the buck! Here is an example of the contactors we have found to work very effectively.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Packard-...se-Contactor-C230C/203565713?N=5yc1vZc4nlZbae

We use them to control pretty much anything that is climate & lighting.

Also..... We buy our mini-splits from either Home Depot or Lowes.

We have had 4 of these units running for 2 years without a problem.



Why Home Depot or Lowes?

Competitive Price. Free Shipping. Warranty!

When they fail..... which they will...... we take them back and they give us a new one. The turn around is quick and with little effort on our part.

Nothing worse than dealing with the "hydro industry" or a mom and pop shop when there is a warranty issue or failure. Would rather get a root canal than live in 1 to 3 months of bad energy trying to get the retailer to get the manufacturer to cover a equipment failure. Box stores pump so much volume and have so much purchasing power that by default, there is almost never a warranty issue.

 

[KtidyFarms]

Yes using hydronic pump controls is alittle bit over board but hey it works and who knows you may have gotten it for free if it was a left over on a job. I preffer using the Honeywell R8222D1014 24V General Purpose Relay. They are good up to 15 amps and as a controls person I like having normally open and closed contacts. I would think you should be able to get a relay like this for less money and takes up less space and same spade connectors, but no lugs like your 30 amp contactors. I have made some pretty nifty control systems which is what I do best, anyone ever have a question about controlling something let me know. I havnt had something I couldn't figure out yet I kinda like the challenge when you get a good one.

 

[blazer]

Yup if loose the board would go back with a transformer and some Mars peanut relays would be much cheaper, but was a good way to purpose a pump board if got one laying around for sure.

 

[KtidyFarms]