Grow Room A/C

[Twisted pleasure]

Sealed room with RDWC got it. How much RH from the plant load is not a good way to look at it. (Even though Plant load is a factor. But I feel soil or coco would be more of a factor then your system Because you need soil and coco to dry to feed your system is constant and sealed so that being said) The hotter the air the more moister it can hold. You can actually control respiration. The colder the less the plants transpire. So how I always look at it. If I can stay around 80 with a humidity around 50% to 55% Im happy. I find that higher temps. with higher RH early in flower first two weeks can give you some serious explosive growth. (Later in flower it can be detrimental to quality and terpin profile. The smell will actually turn to gas and transpire right out of the plant and you will lose your smell and flavor completely.) So I like to control this more with night temps. I find early in flower to keep your night temps only a few degrees cooler then daytime temps. Helps with stretch and also keeps the plants metabolism on the move. Instead of sluggish from low night time temps of a 10 degree variance. I like to do this at the end of flowering. BTW. Brings on color and smell and taste and potency.

The 70 degree is more of your water temps. With RDWC you do not want high water temps so you keep bad bacteria at bay. You can either do this with a chiller or another avenue is to run bennies there is a very good thread which will teach you this. Google Beneficial Bacteria in RDWC and it should come up. The author is an gentleman named Heizenburg. It changed my life.

If you do a 80 daytime and a 70 night time. And you insulate your system well you might end up around 75% water temps. Which would work fine especially with bennies.

My point is and not not get off subject. Your HVAC will not run much at night so that is ware a DH really comes into play. You will need to run DH in a sealed room IMHO to have decent RH during nighttime and decent growth rates.

Hope this helps.

 

[CannabisJohn]

Hi John,

If I have a mother room of 24'x40'x10' with 100 mothers, 12 600W MH lamps - what kind of system do I need to adequately remove humidity? I'd like to retain between 65-75% RH and about 70 degrees F.

By the way - Woodsman sent me here.

Sorry I did not respond sooner but been busy. All the advice given to you is perfect. I can not add anything.

 

[LPwannabe]

Thanks to both of you. I have also been very busy but am focusing on this full time now.

Just to clarify - the sealed room with RDWC is for mothers only. There will be separate flowering rooms with ebb/flow tables, sea of green. Each flowering plant will be a short clone that has rooted and will receive minimal veg-time. So for the room we have been discussing (mothers/clones), there would be no "night-time" and therefore no temperature fluctuation - only light for 24 hours and a constant temp/RH. Unless you recommend 18/6...

Do these recommendations still hold with these systems I intend to use?
For mothers, you prefer higher temperatures and lower RH (80F and 50%RH).
For flowers - first two weeks: high temp and high RH to boost growth (flower production?). Also very slight reduction in nighttime temperatures for the first 2-3 weeks. This low temperature difference between night/day will help to keep the plants short, especially important for sea of green.
Water temperature below 75F

When you say the HVAC would not run much at night, is that because you don't need to cool any lights/ballasts?

 

[CannabisJohn]

Thanks to both of you. I have also been very busy but am focusing on this full time now.

Just to clarify - the sealed room with RDWC is for mothers only. There will be separate flowering rooms with ebb/flow tables, sea of green. Each flowering plant will be a short clone that has rooted and will receive minimal veg-time. So for the room we have been discussing (mothers/clones), there would be no "night-time" and therefore no temperature fluctuation - only light for 24 hours and a constant temp/RH. Unless you recommend 18/6...

Do these recommendations still hold with these systems I intend to use?
For mothers, you prefer higher temperatures and lower RH (80F and 50%RH).
For flowers - first two weeks: high temp and high RH to boost growth (flower production?). Also very slight reduction in nighttime temperatures for the first 2-3 weeks. This low temperature difference between night/day will help to keep the plants short, especially important for sea of green.
Water temperature below 75F

When you say the HVAC would not run much at night, is that because you don't need to cool any lights/ballasts?

When the lights are on you will most likely need a humidifier to maintain your humidity levels. Actually I would look into a high quality fogger. When lights are out the a/c will not run very much because there is no heat load. Also the plants ,if they are cared for properly, will transpire ( think that is the correct word) and humidity will go up. So when lights are out maintaining high humidity is easy. Hope this helps. Open water rezs do very little to raise humidity in larger rooms.

 

[donkeydon]

hi john. I think I really screwed up. I bought an m series msy-d36na . 3 ton online.mitsubishi tells me its a summer a/c. my prblrm is im in sacramento and im runnibg it 8am to 8pm for warmer wearher. its a 64 ambient a/c. when it gets cold my temp is set at 75 and it switches to71 and my r00m goes from 85(co2) to 80. am I destroying my a/c running it when it jumps to 71? wow. I bought 2 of them.really screwedup here. is their anything at all I can do to prolong the life of my a/c? thanx john .ps. I have a 1.5 ton in another room that I can open up for cooling in flower room(yup its an m series to) thanx

 

[mrsgreenbuds]

Hi need some advice/thoughts, my plan was to run my room with the equipment below, given what i know, i.e specs exhaust and induction i thought i had all bases covered, turns out the i don't. Temps
outside are no where near where they should be and the room is showing signs that it could over heat. what is my AC options here. I have very limited space left and $ are on the thin side.

Room:
9ft x 11ft
reflective insulation
water chiller (resun cl650) for RDWC
4x1000w , mh- veg, hps- flower (maybe combine)
Vertical bare bulbs
Environment:
Autopilot greenhouse master controller
1052cfm exhaust
550cfm intro fan
Cooling = 0 degrees outside

 

[donkeydon]

hi john.please disregared prior queston. when I called Mitsubishi and asked why my sensor jumped from 78 t 71 .she told me my a/c wouldn't work at under 65 degrees. wow.had me going In circles for a minute.my q was why a sensor would do that to begin with.its always does it around 5 hours into a 12/hr cycle.what im seeing is the room heats over 85 degrees and the sensor automaticly kicks down to 71 to cool room.the problem is it stays at 71 and gives me 81 degrees when I need 85 in the room.do you have any experience with mitsus mhk-1 sensors? thanx a lot john.you help a ton of people here and even if you don't know.i appreciate what you do anyways. don

 

[coloradro]

Got a room almost done and need some help deciding on cooling lights with outside air or with a/c also wondering where I should mount the mini split inside the room! A/C is aura 24k btu mini split we are running 6k electronic hortilux ballasts all hung on ceiling.... any help or suggestions are welcome! I've attached a diagram of room setup so far

 

[greendarknight]

Hey CannanisJohn and fellow farmers,

Took a few hours to read over the thread before asking my questions and I am doing my best to follow the complexity of the different cooling options available and it seems like some of my problems have been discussed however I really want to hear your opinion.

My 3 Ton Ideal Air just shit the bed and we lost an entire room so we are sick of dealing with these hydro-store brand A/Cs that seem to be all built like shit and unreliable.

I am in the Northeast and it gets both VERY COLD and VERY HOT. I really need a setup that can perform at close to 0 degrees outside in the winter and 90-95 degrees in the summer. Reliability is paramount.

We would prefer quick-connects so we can install without any tech but it seems that many of these systems still need extra work. We have successfully installed almost a double digit number of Ideal Air products and so far we have had 3 units fail and got lucky and never lost a room until this past weekend when the A/C froze up and failed for good after temps dipped to single digits.

The equipment we use work unbelievable in terms of quality of product but the ballasts are all inside the room (single assembly) and

We have two almost identical sealed flower rooms with no air cooling. We try to run low 80s during the day and low 70s at night.

Room A
Total Wattage = approx. 5000w
Size= 12 x 12 x 9
4 Gavita Pro 1000s turned up to 1150 at least for 1/2 the flower cycle
1 Gavita Pro LEP Plasma is said to put off about 300w
4 Kessill A350 LEDs
Dehumidifier (forget the brand but keeps the room at about 55%)
IdealAir 3 Ton (just shit the bed)
CO2 by tank controlled by iPonic 600 controller
4 circ. wall fans placed at varying levels , all at light level or lower
A/C Placement - outside 15 feet below the room on the driveway bolted in concrete (might have to make sure it is above the snow level from reading your post)

Room B
Total Wattage= approx. 4200w
size=10 x 11 x 9
2 Gavita Pro 1000s turned up to 1150 at least for 1/2 the flower cycle
2 Gavita Pro 600s
1 Gavita Pro LEP Plasma is said to put off about 300w
4 Kessill A350 LEDs
Dehumidifier (forget the brand but keeps the room at about 55%)
Aura Systems 3 Ton, seems more reliable than the IdealAir but still has problems w/thermostat and outdoor unit still freezes up sometimes even though I believe it is rated for cooler weather
CO2 by tank controlled by wall plug controller (pending iPonic)
4 circ. wall fans placed at varying levels , all at light level or lower
A/C Placement - on the porch about 15 feet away, about a foot from the siding, fan facing out towards the street, lineset goes up to the celing and back down about 2 feet into the room

I see alot of talk about water coolers being used, is this the same as a swamp cooler? Could these help us take stress and reliance off of the A/C?

We are pretty set against using outside air but is there anyway to use inside air to help cool the room and take stress off the A/C using fans and venting to evacuate some of the hot air?

We were looking at quick connects and found the Winchester's that seem to be commercial grade A/Cs that quick connect and also have a heat pump.

http://www.globalindustrial.com/g/h...tral/Winchester-Residential-Quick-Connect-A-C

The manual talks about needing to have a gas fuel line to use the heat pump? I thought the outside unit would automatically heat.

Any help is much appreciated!

 

[CannabisJohn]

Ha

Got a room almost done and need some help deciding on cooling lights with outside air or with a/c also wondering where I should mount the mini split inside the room! A/C is aura 24k btu mini split we are running 6k electronic hortilux ballasts all hung on ceiling.... any help or suggestions are welcome! I've attached a diagram of room setup so far

Hang it in middle of long wall with window or opposite of window wall

 

[CannabisJohn]

Hi need some advice/thoughts, my plan was to run my room with the equipment below, given what i know, i.e specs exhaust and induction i thought i had all bases covered, turns out the i don't. Temps
outside are no where near where they should be and the room is showing signs that it could over heat. what is my AC options here. I have very limited space left and $ are on the thin side.
Room:
9ft x 11ft
reflective insulation
water chiller (resun cl650) for RDWC
4x1000w , mh- veg, hps- flower (maybe combine)
Vertical bare bulbs
Environment:
Autopilot greenhouse master controller
1052cfm exhaust
550cfm intro fan
Cooling = 0 degrees outside

Mithsubushi mini split. They are not cheap but are the best. The P series will operate to 0F with wind baffle installed ( extra ). I would say a 2 ton minimum.

 

[CannabisJohn]

Hey CannanisJohn and fellow farmers,

Took a few hours to read over the thread before asking my questions and I am doing my best to follow the complexity of the different cooling options available and it seems like some of my problems have been discussed however I really want to hear your opinion.

My 3 Ton Ideal Air just shit the bed and we lost an entire room so we are sick of dealing with these hydro-store brand A/Cs that seem to be all built like shit and unreliable.

I am in the Northeast and it gets both VERY COLD and VERY HOT. I really need a setup that can perform at close to 0 degrees outside in the winter and 90-95 degrees in the summer. Reliability is paramount.

We would prefer quick-connects so we can install without any tech but it seems that many of these systems still need extra work. We have successfully installed almost a double digit number of Ideal Air products and so far we have had 3 units fail and got lucky and never lost a room until this past weekend when the A/C froze up and failed for good after temps dipped to single digits.

The equipment we use work unbelievable in terms of quality of product but the ballasts are all inside the room (single assembly) and

We have two almost identical sealed flower rooms with no air cooling. We try to run low 80s during the day and low 70s at night.

Room A
Total Wattage = approx. 5000w
Size= 12 x 12 x 9
4 Gavita Pro 1000s turned up to 1150 at least for 1/2 the flower cycle
1 Gavita Pro LEP Plasma is said to put off about 300w
4 Kessill A350 LEDs
Dehumidifier (forget the brand but keeps the room at about 55%)
IdealAir 3 Ton (just shit the bed)
CO2 by tank controlled by iPonic 600 controller
4 circ. wall fans placed at varying levels , all at light level or lower
A/C Placement - outside 15 feet below the room on the driveway bolted in concrete (might have to make sure it is above the snow level from reading your post)

Room B
Total Wattage= approx. 4200w
size=10 x 11 x 9
2 Gavita Pro 1000s turned up to 1150 at least for 1/2 the flower cycle
2 Gavita Pro 600s
1 Gavita Pro LEP Plasma is said to put off about 300w
4 Kessill A350 LEDs
Dehumidifier (forget the brand but keeps the room at about 55%)
Aura Systems 3 Ton, seems more reliable than the IdealAir but still has problems w/thermostat and outdoor unit still freezes up sometimes even though I believe it is rated for cooler weather
CO2 by tank controlled by wall plug controller (pending iPonic)
4 circ. wall fans placed at varying levels , all at light level or lower
A/C Placement - on the porch about 15 feet away, about a foot from the siding, fan facing out towards the street, lineset goes up to the celing and back down about 2 feet into the room

I see alot of talk about water coolers being used, is this the same as a swamp cooler? Could these help us take stress and reliance off of the A/C?

We are pretty set against using outside air but is there anyway to use inside air to help cool the room and take stress off the A/C using fans and venting to evacuate some of the hot air?

We were looking at quick connects and found the Winchester's that seem to be commercial grade A/Cs that quick connect and also have a heat pump.

http://www.globalindustrial.com/g/h...tral/Winchester-Residential-Quick-Connect-A-C

The manual talks about needing to have a gas fuel line to use the heat pump? I thought the outside unit would automatically heat.

Any help is much appreciated!

Those still require install by licensed contractor or warranty is most likely void.
Heat pumps can only heat so much when it gets cold out so either electric or gas heat is used to supplement.

 

[coloradro]

Those still require install by licensed contractor or warranty is most likely void.
Heat pumps can only heat so much when it gets cold out so either electric or gas heat is used to supplement.

Would It be a good idea to place the condenser in a garage if the outside temps get below freezing (Colorado) and then super hot in the summer? Just trying to figure everything out before I start setting up the a/c just in case we miss something crucial

Also would freezing temps be a problem while cooling lights with outside air? As far as condensation and such?

 

[CannabisJohn]

Would It be a good idea to place the condenser in a garage if the outside temps get below freezing (Colorado) and then super hot in the summer? Just trying to figure everything out before I start setting up the a/c just in case we miss something crucial

Also would freezing temps be a problem while cooling lights with outside air? As far as condensation and such?

Do not put in garage. Just make sure your unit can cool properly when your outside temps are their coldest and hottest. Yes too cold of air to cool ur lights will be problem. Seal it up and a/c properly.

 

[greendarknight]

Those still require install by licensed contractor or warranty is most likely void.
Heat pumps can only heat so much when it gets cold out so either electric or gas heat is used to supplement.

Thanks man, I really appreciate your feedback.

I do not mind having an HVAC guy come to install the units if that is what I have to do then that is what I am going to have to do.

Based on the information I gave you can you give me any recommendations on systems or setups?

Will a chiller ran to ice boxes still need to be heated?

Can I use a single chiller to run multiple ice boxes in these two rooms (I would assume that the light cycles would have to be the same)?

I noticed you said I could use electric heat to keep the A/Cs warm. Would this be something I buy in addition to the A/C unit?

I have an outdoor 110 plug available for the A/C on the porch and could run something for the driveway unit as well.

 

[CannabisJohn]

Thanks man, I really appreciate your feedback.

I do not mind having an HVAC guy come to install the units if that is what I have to do then that is what I am going to have to do.

Based on the information I gave you can you give me any recommendations on systems or setups?

Will a chiller ran to ice boxes still need to be heated?

Can I use a single chiller to run multiple ice boxes in these two rooms (I would assume that the light cycles would have to be the same)?

I noticed you said I could use electric heat to keep the A/Cs warm. Would this be something I buy in addition to the A/C unit?

I have an outdoor 110 plug available for the A/C on the porch and could run something for the driveway unit as well.

If you don't need to heat ur grow you don't need additional heat. Just make sure the outside unit can provide cooling to ur lowest outside air temp.
Your existing units can't provide proper cooling when the temps get too low. There are units that will do that. Sometimes you need to add additional manufacturer provided components installed to accomplish this. I recommend Mitshubushi mini splits. I believe the P series units can run to 0F outside out of the box. Your a/c tech should be able to help you further with your selection. PM me if I can help you further.

 

[donkeydon]

got enough coling/but thanx/got it straight/don

 

[soaringfast]

I'm up grading my room from 6 1k air cooled hoods to 6 1k Gavitas. I'm not running any type of cooling at the moment but will obviously need something. The room size 11x11 with standard ceilings.
I have looked and spoked to the guys at Excel air and they said a 2ton because they are more efficient than a mini split.
I think I need a 3 ton at least and being the room is small distributing the cool air should be easy with some fans?
I just want to do it right the first time and if doing it right cost a bit up front that is ok as well. Buying twice always cost more than doing it right the first time.

 

[donkeydon]

my 3 ton mini cools 6k without any problem. a mr slim

 

[soaringfast]

Those cost a bit more than the other brands and seem to be highly recommended here. Are they more industrial meant to be run everyday and not just seasonal?