High THCV strains and breeding them

Milson · Jan 16, 2021

Milson said:
Ah. Yeah.

This guy is very interesting re: Cannabinoids generally and re: parkinson's in particular.

Javier Fernández-Ruiz

Profesor de Bioquímica, Universidad Complutense - Citado por 22,171 - Cannabinoides

scholar.google.es

If you want to explore his work, this is probably the paper to start with.

Redirecting

Milson · Jan 16, 2021

More or less, my understanding is that CB1 and CB2 are two primary receptors on the brain. Thc is an agonist for both. Cbd is an antagonist for both. Thcv is an antagonist for CB1 and an agonist for CB2.

My father has parkinson's. Among other things, this affects the basal ganglia, associated with movement. His damaged cells lose their cb1 receptivity. However, they gain cb2 receptors. This is unusual for this part of the brain.

There is enough density there that i wonder. This scientist's research suggests neuroprotective effects from stimulating these receptors and so i am intrigued.

*The above was written by a stoner trying his best, but there might be some misinterpretation on his part. Please feel free to correct. Just please don't be a dick about it. I'm not trying to come across like i know stuff. Just sharing my meager understanding.

Milson · Jan 16, 2021

Milson said:
More or less, my understanding is that CB1 and CB2 are two primary receptors on the brain. Thc is an agonist for both. Cbd is an antagonist for both. Thcv is an antagonist for CB1 and an agonist for CB2.

My father has parkinson's. Among other things, this affects the basal ganglia, associated with movement. His damaged cells lose their cb1 receptivity. However, they gain cb2 receptors. This is unusual for this part of the brain.

There is enough density there that i wonder. This scientist's research suggests neuroprotective effects from stimulating these receptors and so i am intrigued.

*The above was written by a stoner trying his best, but there might be some misinterpretation on his part. Please feel free to correct. Just please don't be a dick about it. I'm not trying to come across like i know stuff. Just sharing my meager understanding.

Moe.Red · Jan 16, 2021

Skeptik said:
Using near-red to promote Emerson Effect and far-red for flower initiation are on my to-do list.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. I'm an electrical engineer in my other life and could build any form of light that exists in electrical parts.

MIMedGrower · Jan 16, 2021

Moe.Red said:
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. I'm an electrical engineer in my other life and could build any form of light that exists in electrical parts.

One of bruce bugby’s videos talks all about far red. Im sorry i dont have the link handy.

Milson · Jan 16, 2021

MIMedGrower said:
One of bruce bugby’s videos talks all about far red. Im sorry i dont have the link handy.

Moe.Red · Jan 16, 2021

Milson said:
My father has parkinson's. Among other things, this affects the basal ganglia, associated with movement. His damaged cells lose their cb1 receptivity. However, they gain cb2 receptors. This is unusual for this part of the brain.

Sorry to hear. Sounds like you may have some motives similar to my own. Cool to be on the same team - we need to make this stuff freely available to anyone who needs it. Pipe dream but a guy can try.

Moe.Red · Jan 16, 2021

MIMedGrower said:
One of bruce bugby’s videos talks all about far red. Im sorry i dont have the link handy.

Most credible source on light for our needs that I have ever found.

MIMedGrower · Jan 16, 2021

Moe.Red said:
Most credible source on light for our needs that I have ever found.

agreed. Credible on growing of course too. But i do caution. He has no experience growing potent weed and uses commercial medical growers for consultation. Shame he didnt consult with experienced caregivers. Or old school weed farmers. Small and home medical growers tend to be the best at this craft not big investment run dispensary type grows.

In other words they dont know how to or are not willing to grow truly potent complex flowers.

I do not believe pushing plants for faster growth helps develop their whole potential profile. Slow and steady wins the race imo.

Moe.Red · Jan 16, 2021

MIMedGrower said:
agreed. Credible on growing of course too. But i do caution. He has no experience growing potent weed and uses commercial medical growers for consultation. Shame he didnt consult with experienced caregivers. Or old school weed farmers. Small and home medical growers tend to be the best at this craft not big investment run dispensary type grows.

In other words they dont know how to or are not willing to grow truly potent complex flowers.

I do not believe pushing plants for faster growth helps develop their whole potential profile. Slow and steady wins the race imo.

So what are your thoughts on spectrum and intensity?

Milson · Jan 16, 2021

MIMedGrower said:
agreed. Credible on growing of course too. But i do caution. He has no experience growing potent weed and uses commercial medical growers for consultation. Shame he didnt consult with experienced caregivers. Or old school weed farmers. Small and home medical growers tend to be the best at this craft not big investment run dispensary type grows.

In other words they dont know how to or are not willing to grow truly potent complex flowers.

I do not believe pushing plants for faster growth helps develop their whole potential profile. Slow and steady wins the race imo.

Tbf i don't think he has ever claimed that as an interest of his.

MIMedGrower · Jan 16, 2021

Moe.Red said:
So what are your thoughts on spectrum and intensity?

well i agree with the old findings from the university of michigan when they were still testing hps and mh. Intensity (wattage) is the most important factor. Plants transfer photosynthesis to the strongest wavelength. They suggested skip metal halide despite the spectrum and use hps start to finish for best results.

I mostly still agree. I have side by side tested multiple runs with known clones hps, mh, hps conversion bulb and cmh and my best buds were with 600hps combined with 315 cmh. I used hortilux super hps and phillips 3100k. And hortilux Blue mh.

We conducted stealth blind testing with us and our patients and no one could reliably tell which was which. So i back to flowering with hps only. No one noticed. Experience and proper care geows the best weed every time. All the light spectrum info and nutrient info brings diminishing returns.

That said. Light spectrum does measurably affect plant structure. More blue equals shorter stockier leafier plants and more red taller branchier plants. So customization is possible. That is what the u of m is studying now with discreet colored diodes. Nasa as well.

What i found with the specific bulbs. Hps grows the biggest dense and best leaf to calyx ratio. Metal halide looser leafier but very frosty buds but not necessarily more potent. And cmh 3100 seemed to look the best but had almost 30% less yield than 600hps (which is pretty good for 315 watts) but also gave dense big buds with tons of frost.

I hope some sense can be made of this. Sorry i dont have lab tests. But i will say my buds still grown with hps now are more potent than ever. So grower skill and environment are the most important factors. Not light frequency.

MIMedGrower · Jan 16, 2021

Milson said:
Tbf i don't think he has ever claimed that as an interest of his.

of course not. He is an agriculture teacher. But the potency and recipe is the most important thing to us.

Moe.Red · Jan 16, 2021

MIMedGrower said:
I hope some sense can be made of this. Sorry i dont have lab tests. But i will say my buds still grown with hps now are more potent than ever. So grower skill and environment are the most important factors. Not light frequency.

Not expecting lab tests! You have far greater experience than me, it would be foolish not to consider your input carefully.

I am happy to defer and switch to all HPS now. I need new bulbs anyhow. Lets figure out my order and I'll get them in this week. (2) 600W + (1) 1000W

As far as grower skill goes, I have an idea. I'd love for you guys with experience to be a part of this lab. I am posting up vids of my setup. I can control every environmental setpoint. We have 1 grow to get this 100% dialed in (I have 6 plants fully vegged ready to move in) and our next grow will be the landrace seeds I purchased earlier in the thread. I'll document everything and hide nothing. If a problem comes up, we can solve it as a team.

Together I think we can push the boundaries and better understand the plant as a whole, regardless of each of our motivations.

Once we get thru all this, we have lots of other things to test too. Like today my wife asked me to verify the CBD she bought online was legit 99% CBD (and not CBDA, or corn starch,, etc) That kind of stuff is interesting to me.

So what are our setpoints? Here is a list including my standards

Temp - 78 to 80 day, 68 overnight
RH - changes throughout the grow following VPD chart
CO2 - 1250PPM
Light - 2200W @ 12H on 12H off
PH - 5.8
Nutes - I typically measure in PPM. Nutes should be it's own post
Res temp - 68*F
Water change at least once a week
H2O2 - at start of run and then no more that 10PPM the remainder of the run.

MIMedGrower · Jan 16, 2021

I keep simple parameters as i have the perpetual setup. Flower room is 76-77 degrees farenheight max day and 67-70 night and 45-60 % rh

Stability is key. I dont buy into vpd. No test has ever shown any gains from controlling humidity i have found. Temp is important. Especially with hid bulbs. I control humidity to avoid mold.

and i bet i have mid to high co2 just because my flower room is right off the living room and i spend a lot of time in there and talk to the plants.

Kanzeon · Jan 16, 2021

So I was looking at Frenchy Cannoli's instagram yesterday, and he just tested some hashish that had tested negative for THCV until a few months after it was made. After that point, IIRC, it tested at 2.2% THCV. So there's definitely something about the formation of THCV that can take place after harvest.

MIMedGrower · Jan 16, 2021

Kanzeon said:
So I was looking at Frenchy Cannoli's instagram yesterday, and he just tested some hashish that had tested negative for THCV until a few months after it was made. After that point, IIRC, it tested at 2.2% THCV. So there's definitely something about the formation of THCV that can take place after harvest.

i have been wondering about decarbing not really working the same way as time. Our edibles are made with fully jar cured trim and buds not fresh decarbed ones and seem much stronger than other edibles i have tried with decarbed weed product.

I have found any shortcut reduces final quality so is it possible time creates something in the flowers that quick decarbing can not?

Kanzeon · Jan 16, 2021

MIMedGrower said:
i have been wondering about decarbing not really working the same way as time. Our edibles are made with fully jar cured trim and buds not fresh decarbed ones and seem much stronger than other edibles i have tried with decarbed weed product.

I have found any shortcut reduces final quality so is it possible time creates something in the flowers that quick decarbing can not?

Well we know that oxygen, heat, and light can transform THC into CBN in the final product, right? And decarbing, especially at high temps, blows off terps and reduces the entourage effect. The best edibles that I've had were made with rosin, but your mixed strain shake and bake sounds incredible.

Moe.Red · Jan 16, 2021

MIMedGrower said:
i have been wondering about decarbing not really working the same way as time. Our edibles are made with fully jar cured trim and buds not fresh decarbed ones and seem much stronger than other edibles i have tried with decarbed weed product.

I have found any shortcut reduces final quality so is it possible time creates something in the flowers that quick decarbing can not?

Decarbing and curing are 2 separate things completely.

You have to have a decarb somewhere in your edible process or you would get zero effect.

As far as this testing goes, there is no significant difference in cannabinoids fresh, freeze dried, air dryed, and cured for a month or 6 months if taken from the same bud. Curing will naturally decarb as the carboxyl group decays over months, but not even close to what you would consider decarbed after 2 years. Think of it this way if you found an old bud from 5 years ago and ate it raw, would you get high?

growsince79 · Jan 16, 2021

Moe.Red said:
Decarbing and curing are 2 separate things completely.

You have to have a decarb somewhere in your edible process or you would get zero effect.

As far as this testing goes, there is no significant difference in cannabinoids fresh, freeze dried, air dryed, and cured for a month or 6 months if taken from the same bud. Curing will naturally decarb as the carboxyl group decays over months, but not even close to what you would consider decarbed after 2 years. Think of it this way if you found an old bud from 5 years ago and ate it raw, would you get high?

I don't think you would get high smoking it either unless it was frozen for four years.

High THCV strains and breeding them

High THCV strains and breeding them

Milson

Milsonian

Javier Fernández-Ruiz

Milson

Milsonian

Milson

Milsonian

Moe.Red

MIMedGrower

Milson

Milsonian

Moe.Red

Moe.Red

MIMedGrower

Moe.Red

Milson

Milsonian

MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

Moe.Red

MIMedGrower

Kanzeon

MIMedGrower

Kanzeon

Moe.Red

growsince79

High THCV strains and breeding them

High THCV strains and breeding them

Milson

Milsonian

Javier Fernández-Ruiz

Milson

Milsonian

Milson

Milsonian

Moe.Red

MIMedGrower

Milson

Milsonian

Moe.Red

Moe.Red

MIMedGrower

Moe.Red

Milson

Milsonian

MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

Moe.Red

MIMedGrower

Kanzeon

MIMedGrower

Kanzeon

Moe.Red

growsince79

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