House & Garden how I saved money!

[nightmarecreature]

The SP made my buds foxtail and get all ugly and start new growth. The MOAB just makes my buds swell and that's what I want. I don't want all that new growth or foxtails.

I have not used the whole house and Garden line in a long time. I use to have a list as to what was in each bottle. I believe the algen extract is just seaweed and amino acids. Very expensive stuff and it doesn't last long. I didn't notice much of a difference running all my substitutes.

 

[nightmarecreature]

These are the additives I like to use.
Silica
Magnesium nitrate/Calcium
Amino acids
Beneficial bacteria and fungi
Seaweed
Micronutrients
B vitamins and B1
Humic and Fulvic acid

I didn't have time to finish this but these are the additives I recommend regardless of the brand. These are the basic elements as additives that I think are important regardless if you go with another brand.

Silica
I use ProTekt silica by dyna gro.

Magnesium Nitrate/ Calcium
This is optional but I run coco and OGs, all of which requires more mag. I use Botanicare Cal/Mag

Micronutrients
Botanicare Cal/Mag also has trace minerals.

Amino acids
Vitamino has all the amino acids I need. I use seaweed that also had aminos.

Benefical bacteria and fungi
I use Great White or Root bloom, whatever is handy.

Seaweed
I use Gro Moore Seaweed or Kelp Logic.

B vitamins B1
Vitamino has B1. I use Superthrive and it has B1 in it along with synthetic NAA.

Humic and Fulvic acid
I use humic acid in my homemade roots mix, I use humalogic. I use botanicare Fulvic acid as a foliar spray only. It increases nutrient uptake.

 

[Baylife]

But what about the specific formulations of these products within the bottle compared to simply the ingredients in them. With house and garden you get their feeding chart and their specific dosages of ingredients. By substituting silica and amino acids in place of amino treatment it's up to the farmer to guesstimate specific dosages and combinations. Over time this could work but from jump street your literally just winging it compared h and g's feeding chart. Also do you still use their feeding chart and just substitute your additives for theirs? House and garden has brought me great success; success that didn't come from just using their base. And also what about the quality of house and gardens ingredients compared to cheaper substitutes? Just a little thought. Awesome thread tho my man much props.

 

[gowanstarr]

I didn't have time to finish this but these are the additives I recommend regardless of the brand. These are the basic elements as additives that I think are important regardless if you go with another brand.

Silica
I use ProTekt silica by dyna gro.

Magnesium Nitrate/ Calcium
This is optional but I run coco and OGs, all of which requires more mag. I use Botanicare Cal/Mag

Micronutrients
Botanicare Cal/Mag also has trace minerals.

Amino acids
Vitamino has all the amino acids I need. I use seaweed that also had aminos.

Benefical bacteria and fungi
I use Great White or Root bloom, whatever is handy.

Seaweed
I use Gro Moore Seaweed or Kelp Logic.

B vitamins B1
Vitamino has B1. I use Superthrive and it has B1 in it along with synthetic NAA.

Humic and Fulvic acid
I use humic acid in my homemade roots mix, I use humalogic. I use botanicare Fulvic acid as a foliar spray only. It increases nutrient uptake.

Ok so I understand most of the substitutes that have been mentioned but one. So as I understand it( with my degree in googling ), the vitamino replaces the multizen by giving the plants all the L- aminos they need to make their own enzymes. Please correct me if i am wrong. I am trying to better understand the role of the aminos, and how they can take the place of Multizen.

 

[Raregenetics]

Ok so I understand most of the substitutes that have been mentioned but one. So as I understand it( with my degree in googling ), the vitamino replaces the multizen by giving the plants all the L- aminos they need to make their own enzymes. Please correct me if i am wrong. I am trying to better understand the role of the aminos, and how they can take the place of Multizen.

vitamino replaces amino acids not multizyme... as i understand it anyway

 

[gowanstarr]

Multizen and Amino Treatment= Botanicare Vitamino and Dyna Gro ProTekt Silica.

@nightmarecreature, Would you care to elaborate on this substitute?

 

[nightmarecreature]

But what about the specific formulations of these products within the bottle compared to simply the ingredients in them. With house and garden you get their feeding chart and their specific dosages of ingredients. By substituting silica and amino acids in place of amino treatment it's up to the farmer to guesstimate specific dosages and combinations. Over time this could work but from jump street your literally just winging it compared h and g's feeding chart. Also do you still use their feeding chart and just substitute your additives for theirs? House and garden has brought me great success; success that didn't come from just using their base. And also what about the quality of house and gardens ingredients compared to cheaper substitutes? Just a little thought. Awesome thread tho my man much props.

I already posted specific dosages and my feeding chart , you need to read the whole thread. The subs aren't going to be exact, it's close, it's just a way to save money.

 

[nightmarecreature]

vitamino replaces amino acids not multizyme... as i understand it anyway

Yes.

 

[nightmarecreature]

[

@nightmarecreature, Would you care to elaborate on this substitute?

Basically multizyme has amino acids and silica in it as the main ingrediants. Silica and aminos acids are part of my subs, it's about saving money and getting a similar out come.

 

[gowanstarr]

[

Basically multizyme has amino acids and silica in it as the main ingrediants. Silica and aminos acids are part of my subs, it's about saving money and getting a similar out come.

Ok, I just thought there might be more to it than the obvious. Appreciate all the info you have provided. For my addition to your thread I would like to add that bio cozyme(3ml a gallon) is a good sub for multizen at less than half the price. I can get a quart of vitamino and a quart of bio cozyme and pay less then for a quart of multizen. Multizen is good shizznit don't get me wrong, but expensive.

 

[nightmarecreature]

Here I'll make an easier to read dosage and feeding chart!

House & Garden 1ml equals about 100ppm. Keep additives in mind when measuring ppm and subtract your starting ppm. H&G uses RO. Last I checked I used 5ml per gallon and with my additives and the ppm came out to 620ppm. Everyone's additives will measure a different ppm, that's why I added the ppm chart. If your additives raise the ppm higher, you need less base nutes and vise versa.

House & Garden A+B

1. Clones, established seedlings 1-2ml per gallon
   100-250 ppm Max
   
   Early Vegging 2-3ml per gallon
   300-400 ppm Max
   
   Full Vegging 3-6ml per gallon
   400-700 ppm Max
   
   Early Flower 6-8ml per gallon
   700-900ppm Max
   
   Full Flower 8-12ml per gallon
   900-1500ppm Max
   
   If using Coco Coir, it doesn't like anything over 1500ppm

Multizen and Amino Treatment:
Botanicare Vitamino 3ml small plants 3ml large plants
Dyna Gro ProTekt Silica 1.25ml small plants 2.50ml large plants

Roots Excelurator and Algen extract:
Seaweed (Growmore seaweed 5ml or beneficial Biologics kelp logic 1tsp) Humic acid 1tsp Beneficial microbes, Great White,root bloom, capulators, ect, enough for 5 gallons. Sea Green 1 ml. 1 teaspoon of molasses. Mix all ingredients in 250 mls of water. Then use at 1/4ml for small plants and 1/2ml for large plants.

Magic Green= (Foliar only)Natures Nectar Nitrogen 5-0-0 4ml per gallon and Botanicare Fulvic acid (15ml per gallon). I only like spraying my leaves with organic matter. Salts tend to dry out the leaves and leave white salt residue.

Shooting Powder= Mother of all Blooms AKA MOAB 3/4-1tsp per 5 gallons while dropping base nutes 50%.

Botanicare Cal/Mag 3-5ml per gallon for small plants and 5ml for large plants.

Super Thrive 2 drops per gallon

Drip clean= 10mls White Vinegar per gallon (Flush Only)

 

[gowanstarr]

[

Basically multizyme has amino acids and silica in it as the main ingrediants. Silica and aminos acids are part of my subs, it's about saving money and getting a similar out come.

No info that I can find says that their is silica in multizen, can you point me to the info that states this. I do see that it has potassium hydroxide in it. This is what led to my confusion of how multizen can be substituted for Vitamino and Silica.

 

[leadsled]

Saw this the other day and thought of your post. Knew I had seen the recipe for drip clean somewhere!
Avenger shared this info and recipe for drip clean on icmag.
------
drip clean is a diluted version of pekacid...



http://www.iclfertilizers.com/Fertil...irrigation.pdf

Drip Clean 24% P2O5 and 8% K2O
PeKacid 60% P2O5 and 20% K2O

24/60=0.4

20 X 0.4= 8


http://www.megawatthydro.com/img/pro...-DripClean.pdf

https://customhydronutrients.com/zen...cPath=1_45_104
---
https://customhydronutrients.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_45_104

I was talking about this with a friend. He's using bare salts. He's having trouble buffering it. He said PH rises and always stabilizes at around 6.3. He's in hydro. Any ideas?

The ph problems could be due to alkalinity of the water + nutrients.
http://www.greenhousegrower.com/cro...ant-nutrition-irrigation-water-alkalinity-ph/

 

[nightmarecreature]

Saw this the other day and thought of your post. Knew I had seen the recipe for drip clean somewhere!
Avenger shared this info and recipe for drip clean on icmag.
------
drip clean is a diluted version of pekacid...



http://www.iclfertilizers.com/Fertil...irrigation.pdf

Drip Clean 24% P2O5 and 8% K2O
PeKacid 60% P2O5 and 20% K2O

24/60=0.4

20 X 0.4= 8

http://www.megawatthydro.com/img/pro...-DripClean.pdf

https://customhydronutrients.com/zen...cPath=1_45_104
---

The ph problems could be due to alkalinity of the water + nutrients.
http://www.greenhousegrower.com/cro...ant-nutrition-irrigation-water-alkalinity-ph/

Nice find! I was aware drip clean is PeKacid but I've never knew it was available in a dry powder. PeKacid would be easier to use since it could be used often. Vinegar works, it's cheap and it's simple to use but it requires a full flush that can be a pain in the ass if you're down time.

 

[Delerium]

Dropped that clone batch into veg. Should I still add some IBA into the veg table, Seen some people use it or is that overkill?

 

[nightmarecreature]

I use Superthrive, it has synthetic NAA.
I would in veg but not in flower.

 

[Lowman]

Saw this the other day and thought of your post. Knew I had seen the recipe for drip clean somewhere!
Avenger shared this info and recipe for drip clean on icmag.
------
drip clean is a diluted version of pekacid...



http://www.iclfertilizers.com/Fertil...irrigation.pdf

Drip Clean 24% P2O5 and 8% K2O
PeKacid 60% P2O5 and 20% K2O

24/60=0.4

20 X 0.4= 8

http://www.megawatthydro.com/img/pro...-DripClean.pdf

https://customhydronutrients.com/zen...cPath=1_45_104
---

The ph problems could be due to alkalinity of the water + nutrients.
http://www.greenhousegrower.com/cro...ant-nutrition-irrigation-water-alkalinity-ph/

I know I can be a bonehead at times....but I can't seem to get a recipe from this post. I made some up from a recipe I read somewhere else. I think it was 400g Pekacid to a quart of water. Or something like that.

 

[leadsled]

I know I can be a bonehead at times....but I can't seem to get a recipe from this post. I made some up from a recipe I read somewhere else. I think it was 400g Pekacid to a quart of water. Or something like that.

Not a bonehead at all. There is a msds and other info but no recipe. Sorry about that.

1 gram of PeKacid added to 1 gallon of water contributes:

70 ppm P

44 ppm K
------
Add 400 grams to a gallon of h20 to make a stock solution.

 

[nightmarecreature]

Damn 400g is close to a pound!

Does anyone have some drip clean? Test the PPM of drip clean and it wouldn't be to hard to figure out how much PeKacid to use.

 

[Lowman]

Not a bonehead at all. There is a msds and other info but no recipe. Sorry about that.

1 gram of PeKacid added to 1 gallon of water contributes:

70 ppm P

44 ppm K
------
Add 400 grams to a gallon of h20 to make a stock solution.

Yikes....I added 400g to a liter. Someone posted it somewhere(can't remember). Didn't seem like much of a savings. Thanks a bunch. I guess I'll use this batch as a PK booster.