More lies.. "UFO" "Penetrator" are just coined up terms like 1st gen, 2nd gen lights. They have always been the same LED's fashioned in different ways. watts, different nanometer ranges/ratio, etc. Facts are that most of these companies selling led's, buy them from the same sources in china. I am NOT here to hate on LED's and people who use or sell them.

Did LED's grow plants? yes.
Did they do it well? No. From my personal experience
Would they work better with some strains? Questionable
Are they better on wattage? Yes
Do they give off heat? Yes
Can you deal with the heat given off? No
What do I think about LEDGirl? No problems other than deleting peoples posts not positive about LEDs. If my posts would have stayed I swear I would have not posted again. I was just BLOWN away by all the LED threads and nothing bad. So I posted and got erased like I never had a thought.
Would I ever try LED's again? Absolutely once they are REALLY figured out. I know marketing when I see it and if you are not trying to make the product better by taking peoples accounts and saying okay well lets maybe modify this to get it to work better. Whats the point of the test grows if you cant say well lets do this to make it better.
Am I referring to LED Girls brand of leds?No. They could have been manufactured by greeks in a lab on the moon for all I know. I could also be a horses pitute by posting this stuff when her LED's are the cream of the crop. I am willing to risk my reputation as I am here for the long run, (hopefully).

I have way more knowledge than I have posted here about these things. I do not want to burn the two companies I have dealt with by posting up their info but they are included in this scheme of b.s. Its about money I understand, but I came here to learn some new tricks and seen this, so sharing my knowledge and honest experience I thought was the point of being on a public forum.

The commercial world is relamping with flouro's. Banks, warehouses, body shops office building etc, are replacing older magnetic ballast fluorescent and hid with t5s and t8's. Its makes economic sense, and the enrvironmentalist are pushing hard to use the smaller bulbs with less mercury. The electronic ballast is a great new technology, the skinnier the bulb the longer it last and the more efficient it is. Its where the breakthrough technology is today, its just not very sexy. I'm growing one plant with 645 watts of ho t5, I think its better than 600 watts of hid, and better than 400 watts of led, and 600 watts of led is too expensive, and 1000 watts of hid would get too hot, so i'm going to give it a shot. I dont care about the grams per watt, but if I dont think I can get pounds per plant, then t5's will be used for veg only.

Panasonic is pushing the led's for home use in Japan, I think it will be a chip maker that brings us real breakthrough technology. The innovative small guy or girl just keeps reinventing the same old stuff.

It would be nice if more grow light sellers talked to us in plant terms, photons per watt, irradiance, spectral power distribution, just tell us how much energy is available when the light hits the plant.

Motta-Tokka you do not need to give the name of the led manufacturer to state the specs of the lights. If you state the specs of the led's you used than that can be evaluated to determine relevance when comparing.

To not do so is to do no better than you accuse as it is as if you are in part "editing" out your experience as to imply relevance. You have to understand, it is asking a bit much for people who do not know you to take as your word that your experience is relevant.

Its irreverent other than to burn the companies. Arguing that the companies have different LEDs is false. I never said I would not post the specs on the lights though..

*Her company does not manufacture the lights or the bulbs
*Neither did the two companies I "worked with"

This thread is about two things...

1. LEDGirl deleted anything that was ever posted negative about LED's in general on her threads, made threats to people (not me), and has acted like a general sales person. I was banished as well the second I posted something (not knowing anything about that).

2. For people to post their experiences like the other day when we had a huge thread that got DELETED and people BANNED. I am willing to take this risk. If I get banned here there's no way in hell I would ever come back. Allowing people to censor threads like that is disgusting and I am a little pissed about it. Got it ;)

I am sure you know this because?? Research and you will see how old LED's are. What company does she use? I am sure its exactly like the same companies everyone else uses. This is led seller type of arguments.. Do you think all companies selling LED's make them themselves or have special companies make them?

Do a quick search on ebay, then google, then youtube to see how many LED companies are basically selling the same thing. Please, take some time now. On youtube you will see some cool grows too. If you like them after that then maybe they are for you.

Look if you want to buy LED's then just get them from this forums sponsor.

One of the companies I was doing business had his china manufacture also producing CUSTOM LED's.. Meaning you could get whatever Nanometer bulbs, whatever ratio you wanted them in, and in a variance of 90-1000watts.

Now with this guy he was really paying attention to what the growers wanted.. Fact of the matter was that most of his clients were not very happy with the outcome of their grows. The one that was VERY happy, used them as a trichrome producer in flower which was only on the sides of his main HPS lights.

I figure to some I am probably being annoying toad at this point so I will stop posting in general about LEDs. I seriously hope I didn't offend anyone besides the people modifying my posts. Even MSL Foundation kinda sees my views and he is a mod. Does that not count for anything? lol. Please don't erase the thread? People have been offended and they should be able to rant in a single thread without it being trashed into oblivion.

One thing it seems LED is a very profitable business.

I have an LED Flash light that kicks ass...And my porch light is a CFL my palm tree loves it you should see the coco nuts it produces....:character0201:

LOL !!! LOL!!! funny guy !

Lol

I just find this funny. I try and ignore her and I cant! hahaha



I try to ignore everyone who is an asshat in my eyes. Like half retarded Pm's from people. Just can't do it this time hehe.

I'm with Jack. My LED flashlights also KICK ASS!!!

Sedate, I owe you a public apology because I clean forgot I gave you that "animus" rep.

So... whaddaya know about Cree?

Motta-Tokka: I don't quite get what you were trying to illustrate with those photos you uploaded on pg 4 of this thread. Could you spell it out for us/me? Maybe some captions explaining why those pics are good/bad?

kuz said:

The commercial world is relamping with flouro's.

Click to expand...

What? The commerical world relamped with flouro's in 1980.

kuz said:

The electronic ballast is a great new technology

Click to expand...

What? What do you mean "new"? Ballasts have been around as long as humans have commanded electricity.

The first light ballast was patented like 1900ish.

For that matter, all ballasts are "electronic" - since all ballasts have solid-state electric componets.

kuz said:

The innovative small guy or girl just keeps reinventing the same old stuff.

Click to expand...

I don't think a spectrally optimized LED grow panel qualifies as "same old stuff" when large manufacturers are just now getting around to sticking them into basic stuff like flashlights.

kuz said:

It would be nice if more grow light sellers talked to us in plant terms, photons per watt, irradiance, spectral power distribution, just tell us how much energy is available when the light hits the plant.

Click to expand...

Having participated in these very discussions in LEDGirl's forum, I can assure you, some light sellers - at least LEDGirl - do talk in those terms. LEDGirl, like her or not, is not a technical neophyte. Her range of knowledge for what she is doing more than suffices.

froggy said:

You can't really blame her for deleting some of the posts. I believe it was you that wrote, "LED's suck, I poop in this thread." If it wasn't you then I apologize.

Click to expand...

I mean that shit (whoever it was doesn't really matter, it just happens incessantly to LEDGirl) would drive me crazy. For every post discussing the inverse square law there are 10 or 20 dumb fuck posts that basically amounted to "LED's suck" couched in varying degrees of profanity or ignorance.

froggy said:

Due to your bad experiences, it seems that you have generalized all LED's as being subpar

Click to expand...

Yea really. I mean LED grows seem like they are all over the map in terms of quality/quantity - my sense of them is that they require some substantial grow-style adjustments and careful light/plant spacing.

Kind of like HID grows. :)

For every person that complains about LED grows, there is another with a great grow journal/video/thread.

seamaiden said:

Sedate, I owe you a public apology because I clean forgot I gave you that "animus" rep.

Click to expand...

Heh heh no worries.

seamaiden said:

So... whaddaya know about Cree?

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Largest Native American nation in Canada?

Um. They are a pretty active mid-size/largish company in the LED/semiconductor arena.

Supposedly they had/have some of the best LED's on the market.

I actually used to like the stock alot but it's dropped fucking 40% since March/April and the company seems to have gone through a some convulsions - a shuttered semiconductor plant in California - with the implosion of the commerical credit availability over the last year or two.

Some googling reveals this more complete history of the company:

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Cree-Inc-Company-History.html

Why you ask?

sedate said:

What? The commerical world relamped with flouro's in 1980.

What? What do you mean "new"? Ballasts have been around as long as humans have commanded electricity.

The first light ballast was patented like 1900ish.

For that matter, all ballasts are "electronic" - since all ballasts have solid-state electric componets.


I don't think a spectrally optimized LED grow panel qualifies as "same old stuff" when large manufacturers are just now getting around to sticking them into basic stuff like flashlights.

Click to expand...

Old tech is t12. New tech t8 and t5 are replacing t12 today.

Electronic - Circuit board replaces core and coil. Its much more efficient. Pick up a new ballast then an old ballast and see if you notice a difference.

High output t5, even better.

Yes spectrally optimized led grow panel is the same old stuff, its the sales pitch for every led grow light for the last ten years. lol, just look at any add for any led grow light.

sedate said:

Heh heh no worries.



Largest Native American nation in Canada?

Um. They are a pretty active mid-size/largish company in the LED/semiconductor arena.

Supposedly they had/have some of the best LED's on the market.

I actually used to like the stock alot but it's dropped fucking 40% since March/April and the company seems to have gone through a some convulsions - a shuttered semiconductor plant in California - with the implosion of the commerical credit availability over the last year or two.

Some googling reveals this more complete history of the company:

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Cree-Inc-Company-History.html

Why you ask?

Click to expand...

I know some people who invested heavily a year or two ago in that outfit. Fishpeople who were also in a discussion about LEDs for reefkeeping. In my opinion it's going to be easier to achieve some success in that arena because it seems to be "easier" to produce blue light, and more of it, than light that's shifted toward the red end of the spectrum.

**Edited to add: LEDs have a great application and place in nano systems. I say this because along with that little thing called The Inverse Square Law it's all got to be pushed through water. Shallow water is the best that's gonna happen for now, I think, unless companies like Cree can really step it up in the R&D department. That's really too bad to read about this company.**

I guess I'm gonna have to pop over someplace else, see who's hurting. Too bad, it all looked *so* good.

kuz said:

Old tech is t12. New tech t8 and t5 are replacing t12 today.

Click to expand...

. . . and LEDs will eventually replace all of those.

kuz said:

Electronic - Circuit board replaces core and coil. Its much more efficient. Pick up a new ballast then an old ballast and see if you notice a difference.

Click to expand...

"Electronic" and "Integrated Circuit" and/or "Circuit Board" are not interchangable terms/concepts.

Just to nitpick - I'd be more precise there. :)

kuz said:

Yes spectrally optimized led grow panel is the same old stuff, its the sales pitch for every led grow light for the last ten years. lol, just look at any add for any led grow light.

Click to expand...

I mean I guess. They've been on the market for a minute, but they haven't really come down in price to make production of very large panels viable, so much of the market - LEDGirl's stuff included, isn't really powerful enough yet for widespread adoption, IMHO.

I mean I like them and I'm really intrigued, but I ain't swapping my 1000's anytime soon. I mean - I (and I imagine most other posters would agree) can't pay 250 - 400 dollars for a light than will grow me ounces when I can pay 250 - 400 dollars for a light that will grow me pounds. That's just rational economics. Even after I factor in cooling costs and such, LED's just aren't going to cut the mustard running under a plant-limit, IMHO.

Cool products and excited technology, but like so many others, they just don't fit with my grow/grow style.

But however you feel about that, the idea that this market segment has degenerated into "same old stuff" when new LED technologies are being developed by the week seems kinda short-sighted to me - it just isn't the way I look at it here.

There is a noticeable difference is appearence, output, and design when I look at a LED panel produced today - and some of LED stuff out a few years ago.

It's getting better all the time man. Really.

seamaiden said:

LEDs have a great application and place in nano systems. I say this because along with that little thing called The Inverse Square Law it's all got to be pushed through water.

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Yea I kinda see residential/enthusiast applications of LED's being pretty limited in the near-to-mid term.

Jackmayoffer made a joke about flashlights, but in a way it was a good point. I mean this is sort of where the technology is for practical/cost effective application.

I feel this way about using LED's as a grow light too - I really wouldn't run them with more than a smallish SCROG - and I could get several 1000w systems for the price of a single large panel - and I need big fucking trees to stay in compliance with Colorado law.

seamaiden said:

Shallow water is the best that's gonna happen for now

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No one makes a waterproof light that could drop into a tank? Or vertical corner lighting? I had a 80-gallon hexagonal tank like that once . . . really sweet tank . . .

How bright do aquariums lights need to be for reef keeping?

seamaiden said:

That's really too bad to read about this company

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I dunno it's pretty big and in segment with HUGE growth possiblities. I'd definately hold it if I owned it. Have too see where the stock dip came from. The thing is it isn't a precipitous drop that could be explained by one thing, it's a summer long decline with a couple of spurroius jumps - one wayy back up to 75. I dunno. It seems a tad jumpy for a company of it's market cap.

It is cheap now though. And up a point since my previous post. Nice.

The two year graph looks fucking great:



I dunno seamaiden, now that I poked at it a bit, this company might be seriously on sale - that 18 month upward trend is beautiful.

How do your friends feel about the investment these days, if you don't mind me asking?

so my 2x2 led might be useful for something after all; a nano aquarium reef grow; nice

they r ok for veg; i like t5s better; and they do put off a good deal of heat probably 5+ deg over ambient... for the 205w model

i don't flower in 2x2 spaces so i really don't have much use for it
i could see if u were living in japan or something it being cool; hell u might b able to afford one too... but if you're living at your moms house trying to do a micro grow in your closet i doubt you'd b dropping 700 bux on a light

sedate said:

. . . and LEDs will eventually replace all of those.

"Electronic" and "Integrated Circuit" and/or "Circuit Board" are not interchangable terms/concepts.

Just to nitpick - I'd be more precise there. :)

Click to expand...

Yes, I also think electronic is a little confusing but I didnt make it up thats just what they're commonly known as.

Los Angeles is supposed to be testing some led street lights, it would be really interesting to know which lights they are using and who makes them. If we could look at one I'm guessing we would see some really significant changes over the same old stuff.

I don't know what the fuss is.

So far, the little light she gave me is working great for veg. Would I pay 400 bucks for it ? No way. I was happy with my little 150 before.

I'm finishing some single cola clones for the fun of it. But for a small grower like me, it's ideal for vegging plants before you pop them into a seperate flower cab or room.

I have low expectations of the bud density because the light just is not that intense. If they are too small, they may get finished under a 400 watt.

Lot's of people on pot forums have poor social skills. LED girl among them.

But really, at the end of the day, who gives a shit? Go kiss a girl.

Except for Seamaiden.

Personally I think it's a matter of perception. If you're growing with 600-1000W bulbs these lights are no where near cost effective, and will seem (rightfully so) like a complete ripoff to produce similar results. If you are a micro grower running cabinets or small tents etc., especially in situations where heat is a concern, then these lights are totally awesome after you get over the initial cost.

I have seen plenty of successful grows with these lights. On a smaller scale. Out of respect for Logic, I will re-frame from throwing up links to competition sites. But I am sure many of you have already seen them.

LEDGirl is a very smart lady, and she put tons of effort and research into what I truly believe SHE believes is a solid product. And it surely is under the right circumstances. I just think her marketing approach has caused her a lot of problems. I certainly don't agree with some of her watt vs. watt comparisons. She is most certainly not the most savvy business-person, and in no, way, shape or form was she prepared to deal with the absolute shit-storm that has been brought down on her across the internet. LED is apparently quite a controversial subject.

Scam? Not really. Not in the right context.

Yeah I am loving my 345w. Its rocking. Day 38 and nugs on par (sorry lol) in size as I would expect from a 400w even a 600w. True, below canopy the growth is dismal, but the canopy is so think that it would be the same with an HID.

ATM, apart from initial outlay, the LED 345 W Penetrators are doing EXACTLY as sold. And are perhaps producing what looks like even better quality buds than under the 600w HID.

But then I was very happy with the 20grams of cheese we got from a fake 60w UFO. Growing in dwc in summer with several pump failures.... quality was easy that of a hid.

LEDs being used to grow coral. The tank is much larger than I ever expected to see at this point.

The light that reefkeepers need to mimic is tropical (equatorial) sun. Most are trying for that noon sunlight to get max growth out of their corals. This fellow plans on replacing his MH bulbs entirely, and if this is over a 125gal then WOW, just fucking WOW.

I've said all I have to say about the business approach and aspect to this, not going to repeat myself, not just yet anyway.