i stand corrected, 24 hr veg rules!!

[Aqua Man]

The only solid argument I have had from using 24/0 veg over they years is genetics. Older genetics sometimes like to start to flower when they get root bound or sit in veg for long periods of time. 24/0 has seemed to help with that some as in prolong it from happening but not eliminating it. Just gives me an extra month or 2 on my moms before I have to restart them. Not scientific just from my personal observations so take that as it is. Other then that I don't really see a huge benefit from running 24/0 vs 18/6. I've done them both and I would do them both. I personally like 20/4 or 18/6 now as it gives a solid time to spray in veg and I don;t really see a growth or yield difference either way (as in my 24/0 rooms weren't bigger plants and didn't yield more). So I see it as it has it use for certain situations.

Question @Aqua Man if you take the soil and microbes completely out of the picture in something like rockwool running sterile is that the main argument for 18/6 vs 24/0 besides the power/environment? Just curious cause the science side I haven't really bothered with I've just done it and watched the results. No idea honestly if it swings either way.

Edit: 1 other thing I will say is 18/6 veg plants seem to be more sensitive to strong lighting when moving rooms. Going from 315's to 1k's I sometimes have to turn my 1k's down for the first week in flower since i started back on 18/6. Never had to with 24/0. Only certain plants.

Yup sterile would make less of a case for not using 24/0. I'm going to guess you have some really decent lights and that probably why you didn't notice an increased growth. One reason not to use 24/0 with very high lighting. The extra gains are negligible after a plant goes into photorespiration the growth slows.

24/0 has its place clones and seedlings and most lighting. If we are talking sterile.

Really highly lighting and living medium not so much.

Its something that some people swear by and others do not for the simple reason they have different equipment. That's why I was saying it's not as simple as saying 24/0 is better.

 

[TheDOG]

The only solid argument I have had from using 24/0 veg over they years is genetics. Older genetics sometimes like to start to flower when they get root bound or sit in veg for long periods of time. 24/0 has seemed to help with that some as in prolong it from happening but not eliminating it. Just gives me an extra month or 2 on my moms before I have to restart them. Not scientific just from my personal observations so take that as it is. Other then that I don't really see a huge benefit from running 24/0 vs 18/6. I've done them both and I would do them both. I personally like 20/4 or 18/6 now as it gives a solid time to spray in veg and I don;t really see a growth or yield difference either way (as in my 24/0 rooms weren't bigger plants and didn't yield more). So I see it as it has it use for certain situations.

Question @Aqua Man if you take the soil and microbes completely out of the picture in something like rockwool running sterile is that the main argument for 18/6 vs 24/0 besides the power/environment? Just curious cause the science side I haven't really bothered with I've just done it and watched the results. No idea honestly if it swings either way.

Edit: 1 other thing I will say is 18/6 veg plants seem to be more sensitive to strong lighting when moving rooms. Going from 315's to 1k's I sometimes have to turn my 1k's down for the first week in flower since i started back on 18/6. Never had to with 24/0. Only certain plants.

This has been some things I’ve noticed, what you mentioned about some will flower if left in 18/6 too long. I’ve had several different varieties start flowering when left in that lighting and I also noticed it affected the yield the longer they were left after the flowers begun.

 

[GDub51]

lol

Why pay for electricity? The sun is THE superior light source. Southern California, we got sun! Don't need any timers either, nature does that for you. But then what would you do with all the time and money you've saved? Dough, dope, dung & dirt the four D's of dirt farming!

 

[Mozzi]

Hello, very interesting thread with so much experience here, could I ask a question about light cycles from you guys.

I am growing 8 plants outdoors from seeds in Thailand, these seeds are native to Thailand where we have a 12 hour sun/light cycle roughly, year round. (the plants are to be used for medical)

Once the seeded plants are large enough I will be cloning. The clones will be distrubted to the other members (who are also under the medical licence) and grown outdoors.

(A seperate issue regards the gender but another time :)

So my plan was to grow the cuttings indoors under a large compact daylight flourecent with a 24 hour light cycle and then when they reach about 12 inches or so gradually expose to daylight and then finally pass on to the group members.

Reading this forum has me worried the cuttings may start flowering early from the shock as soon as they drop to the 12 hour sun cycle even though this is the natural grow cycle for this seed type.

Do you think I should grow the clones outdoors with the slower veg growth to be safe or do the lights indoors 18 or 24 hour?
(situation demands that quicker would be better if possible)

I will probably try both methods but any heads up on this would be great.
Any help really appreciated,
Mozzi

 

[Aqua Man]

Hello, very interesting thread with so much experience here, could I ask a question about light cycles from you guys.

I am growing 8 plants outdoors from seeds in Thailand, these seeds are native to Thailand where we have a 12 hour sun/light cycle roughly, year round. (the plants are to be used for medical)

Once the seeded plants are large enough I will be cloning. The clones will be distrubted to the other members (who are also under the medical licence) and grown outdoors.

(A seperate issue regards the gender but another time :)

So my plan was to grow the cuttings indoors under a large compact daylight flourecent with a 24 hour light cycle and then when they reach about 12 inches or so gradually expose to daylight and then finally pass on to the group members.

Reading this forum has me worried the cuttings may start flowering early from the shock as soon as they drop to the 12 hour sun cycle even though this is the natural grow cycle for this seed type.

Do you think I should grow the clones outdoors with the slower veg growth to be safe or do the lights indoors 18 or 24 hour?
(situation demands that quicker would be better if possible)

I will probably try both methods but any heads up on this would be great.
Any help really appreciated,
Mozzi

Is it always 12 hours of daylight? Or do you get a longer light period throughout a different time of year? Excuse my ignorance.

 

[Aqua Man]

Hello, very interesting thread with so much experience here, could I ask a question about light cycles from you guys.

I am growing 8 plants outdoors from seeds in Thailand, these seeds are native to Thailand where we have a 12 hour sun/light cycle roughly, year round. (the plants are to be used for medical)

Once the seeded plants are large enough I will be cloning. The clones will be distrubted to the other members (who are also under the medical licence) and grown outdoors.

(A seperate issue regards the gender but another time :)

So my plan was to grow the cuttings indoors under a large compact daylight flourecent with a 24 hour light cycle and then when they reach about 12 inches or so gradually expose to daylight and then finally pass on to the group members.

Reading this forum has me worried the cuttings may start flowering early from the shock as soon as they drop to the 12 hour sun cycle even though this is the natural grow cycle for this seed type.

Do you think I should grow the clones outdoors with the slower veg growth to be safe or do the lights indoors 18 or 24 hour?
(situation demands that quicker would be better if possible)

I will probably try both methods but any heads up on this would be great.
Any help really appreciated,
Mozzi

Ok just looked it up. Wow basically 12-13 hrs all year long.

I would say if cloning it would probably be easiest to use some supplemental lighting outside for the clones. It won't take a whole lot just enough to keep them from flowering. Idk how big your grows will be but a simple spot light on a timer to give them 16 hrs of light should be plenty. So it comes on for 4 hrs once it gets dark. This is not for growth purposes just enough light to keep them from flowering until you are ready.

 

[Jimster]

Hello, very interesting thread with so much experience here, could I ask a question about light cycles from you guys.

I am growing 8 plants outdoors from seeds in Thailand, these seeds are native to Thailand where we have a 12 hour sun/light cycle roughly, year round. (the plants are to be used for medical)

Once the seeded plants are large enough I will be cloning. The clones will be distrubted to the other members (who are also under the medical licence) and grown outdoors.

(A seperate issue regards the gender but another time :)

So my plan was to grow the cuttings indoors under a large compact daylight flourecent with a 24 hour light cycle and then when they reach about 12 inches or so gradually expose to daylight and then finally pass on to the group members.

Reading this forum has me worried the cuttings may start flowering early from the shock as soon as they drop to the 12 hour sun cycle even though this is the natural grow cycle for this seed type.

Do you think I should grow the clones outdoors with the slower veg growth to be safe or do the lights indoors 18 or 24 hour?
(situation demands that quicker would be better if possible)

I will probably try both methods but any heads up on this would be great.
Any help really appreciated,
Mozzi

The strain that you are trying to grow would have a lot of effect on the response to photoperiod and flowering. If they are native to your location, I think the best option would be to grow them at the same photoperiod as you are going to plant them outside in. Here is where you might run into trouble. Cannabis uses a photoperiod to determine when to flower. If the photoperiod doesn't change, I think they will eventually start to flower after a certain period of time, or possibly be VERY sensitive to any fluctuations in the photoperiod. In either case, I think it would be best to grow them under 12 hour photoperiods. When you decrease the light period, the plant has a tendancy to flower, In my observation. What I mean is that the plant will stay vegging if the photoperiod stays the same or increases. If vegging and the photoperiod gets slightly shorter, it tends to trigger flowering, even though the difference in time is slight... it seems to sense the overall trend.
Since there are two seasons, even in the tropics, I would try to plant outside at the start of either the spring or fall (on the equinoxes) and vary my indoor light so that the plants will be moving outside into a slightly longer photoperiod. So if there is an hour difference between the two seasons, the "spring" pre-outdoor period would be 11.5 hours. If planting in the fall, then I would have the pre-outdoor period around 11 hours. The idea is for the photoperiods outdoors to be longer than they were indoors, adjusted for the season's variability of the photoperiod.
Whew! Keep in mind that this is just a guess based on the absence of a pronounced seasonal variation in sunlight. This should keep the plants in vegging mode, hopefully until the seasons change of the photoperiod is shortened a little. I don't think most strains would work like this, but equatorial strains react differently and are typically Sativas, with a long and extended flowering period. I truthfully don't know if this is 100% correct or not, as I had asked the same general question about growing in equatorial zones. Hopefully someone with a more extensive background in tropical growing will chime in.

 

[Mozzi]

Is it always 12 hours of daylight? Or do you get a longer light period throughout a different time of year? Excuse my ignorance.

Ok just looked it up. Wow basically 12-13 hrs all year long.

I would say if cloning it would probably be easiest to use some supplemental lighting outside for the clones. It won't take a whole lot just enough to keep them from flowering. Idk how big your grows will be but a simple spot light on a timer to give them 16 hrs of light should be plenty. So it comes on for 4 hrs once it gets dark. This is not for growth purposes just enough light to keep them from flowering until you are ready.

Ok just looked it up. Wow basically 12-13 hrs all year long.

I would say if cloning it would probably be easiest to use some supplemental lighting outside for the clones. It won't take a whole lot just enough to keep them from flowering. Idk how big your grows will be but a simple spot light on a timer to give them 16 hrs of light should be plenty. So it comes on for 4 hrs once it gets dark. This is not for growth purposes just enough light to keep them from flowering until you are ready.

Thanks for the speedy reply Aqua Man, great suggestion and also gave me another idea, maybe grow indoors until required height for passing on and then cut the lightcycle an hour a day until it's back to 12 to match outside, then expose to full sun gradually, then pass on to the members. By then if the flowering has triggered I should see some signs I would think.

 

[Aqua Man]

Thanks for the speedy reply Aqua Man, great suggestion and also gave me another idea, maybe grow indoors until required height for passing on and then cut the lightcycle an hour a day until it's back to 12 to match outside, then expose to full sun gradually, then pass on to the members. By then if the flowering has triggered I should see some signs I would think.

If you cut back the light lower they could start flowering with less than 13-14 hrs and even possibly sensitive to reducing lighting. This could cause flower and then reveg. Better to just keep 16+ then go to 12 once you wanna induce flowering. If you grow a plant from seed it's different it can grow in 12/12 and won't flower until it matures. Clones will already be mature and anything less than 13 hrs it will flower.

 

[Mozzi]

The strain that you are trying to grow would have a lot of effect on the response to photoperiod and flowering. If they are native to your location, I think the best option would be to grow them at the same photoperiod as you are going to plant them outside in. Here is where you might run into trouble. Cannabis uses a photoperiod to determine when to flower. If the photoperiod doesn't change, I think they will eventually start to flower after a certain period of time, or possibly be VERY sensitive to any fluctuations in the photoperiod. In either case, I think it would be best to grow them under 12 hour photoperiods. When you decrease the light period, the plant has a tendancy to flower, In my observation. What I mean is that the plant will stay vegging if the photoperiod stays the same or increases. If vegging and the photoperiod gets slightly shorter, it tends to trigger flowering, even though the difference in time is slight... it seems to sense the overall trend.
Since there are two seasons, even in the tropics, I would try to plant outside at the start of either the spring or fall (on the equinoxes) and vary my indoor light so that the plants will be moving outside into a slightly longer photoperiod. So if there is an hour difference between the two seasons, the "spring" pre-outdoor period would be 11.5 hours. If planting in the fall, then I would have the pre-outdoor period around 11 hours. The idea is for the photoperiods outdoors to be longer than they were indoors, adjusted for the season's variability of the photoperiod.
Whew! Keep in mind that this is just a guess based on the absence of a pronounced seasonal variation in sunlight. This should keep the plants in vegging mode, hopefully until the seasons change of the photoperiod is shortened a little. I don't think most strains would work like this, but equatorial strains react differently and are typically Sativas, with a long and extended flowering period. I truthfully don't know if this is 100% correct or not, as I had asked the same general question about growing in equatorial zones. Hopefully someone with a more extensive background in tropical growing will chime in.

Thanks Jimster, I figured this was probably going to be tricky, honestly I assumed it would be a size or time trigger but the hour difference could be it as you say, I hope not lol. This plant is awkward enough already this is why I have so many people asking for established grown plants, the seeds germinate horribly, the seeds germinate then die instantly you plant them, the early growth is super stretched and have a habbit of dropping the head over and dying, only a few people have acutally managed to get them going here, I got 8 out of about 25 seeds. Still waiting on clarfication on the laws as they develop, maybe I will be able to use other varieties in the future.

Anyway as per yours and AquaMans inputs I will try and set up some experiments once I have enough cuttings available, try and label everything so I can split of the females later on as well, experimenting with light periods might help with the gender splitting as a side effect.
Many thanks for your input

 

[Jimster]

If you cut back the light lower they could start flowering with less than 13-14 hrs and even possibly sensitive to reducing lighting. This could cause flower and then reveg. Better to just keep 16+ then go to 12 once you wanna induce flowering. If you grow a plant from seed it's different it can grow in 12/12 and won't flower until it matures. Clones will already be mature and anything less than 13 hrs it will flower.

I wasn't sure how plants would handle that, sincce they can be planted during the "winter" season which is slightly shorter than 12. In the Caribbean they had 2 crops a year outdoors, but I never really thought about it...and they aren't quite on the equator and get more variation. I guess what I was trying to say was what you said, although I didn't make much sense trying to get my idea across. I should keep my face out of the bong more..

 

[Mozzi]

If you cut back the light lower they could start flowering with less than 13-14 hrs and even possibly sensitive to reducing lighting. This could cause flower and then reveg. Better to just keep 16+ then go to 12 once you wanna induce flowering. If you grow a plant from seed it's different it can grow in 12/12 and won't flower until it matures. Clones will already be mature and anything less than 13 hrs it will flower.

Oh I see, that makes sense, damn that's a problem, it means I would need to pass on the plants with instructions to add lights, not ideal, lol back the drawing board I think.

 

[Jimster]

the seeds germinate horribly, the seeds germinate then die instantly you plant them, the early growth is super stretched and have a habbit of dropping the head over and dying,

You are deficient in light if they are falling over. You might want to move the lights closer or increase them. You really need a lot of light and a CFL must be pretty close. Don't be afraid to mound up the dirt around the stem to support it. When they fall, they can damage the stem and get rot... you can get this from too much water as well. What medium are you using to grow in?

 

[Aqua Man]

I wasn't sure how plants would handle that, sincce they can be planted during the "winter" season which is slightly shorter than 12. In the Caribbean they had 2 crops a year outdoors, but I never really thought about it...and they aren't quite on the equator and get more variation. I guess what I was trying to say was what you said, although I didn't make much sense trying to get my idea across. I should keep my face out of the bong more..

Nah you got it... I understood np

 

[Mozzi]

You are deficient in light if they are falling over. You might want to move the lights closer or increase them. You really need a lot of light and a CFL must be pretty close. Don't be afraid to mound up the dirt around the stem to support it. When they fall, they can damage the stem and get rot... you can get this from too much water as well. What medium are you using to grow in?

The light was indirect sunlight when they were first planted, I was worried they would fry being so small. I didn't have any vermiculite or perlite then so I used shredded cocconut and potting soil, I built chopstick scaffolding to hold the leaves/head up and used plastic straws around the stems, I have now sourced vermic and perlite so should be easier if I have to germinate again from scratch, they are tricky though, lots of Thai farmers here failed with it heh!

 

[Smithygreen]

Aight, I am going to put this question to bed. I have been growing for quite a while and for the last year I have used 24hr veg. It hasnt let me down. I have noticed much more growth and the only downside is I had to increase my feeding times. Electricity may be an issue for some but not me. I have grown about 7 different crops in this manner and my mother plants havent seen darkness in over a year and I actually have to trim the shit out of them now. I have noticed some stress for the first 7 to 10 days but after that its an exponential explosion of compact nodes. I have grown 2 crops of autos under 24 hr start to finish and they fucking loved it! The photos I have vegged 24hrs has been White Rhino, Cement Shoes, Fruity Pebbles, Tutankhamun, Bruce Banner, GG#4 and finally Purple Haze. All of them did extremely well and actually took to flowering much faster when I flipped them. I gave them a full 36 hours of darkness before turning 12/12. The autos I grew were Autoultimate and Auto Six Shooter. I NEVER had autos get that big before both were massive dank monsters. So to the dude that said plants only breathe when lights are off your a dumbass. They breathe all the time or they would die you dope! I used a ebb and flow system and a DWC system of my own design. If you are wanting more compact growth in a very fast time frame to cut down your veg time and have stronger plants, a 24hr veg time is for you. There are only three cons with this depending on what your medium is. If using soil you have to watch your plants closer and increase watering times a little bit plus adding a little bit more nutes. If using hydro get ready to increase some nutes and water every 4 hours if in flood and drain. Lastly is electric costs. It will go up a bit but its worth it if you get it right. I also found that keeping my veg room at 73 df at all times was best when in 24 he veg. I switched to LED lights so it hasnt been an issue. Fuck T5 lights and fuck HID as well unless its a ducted CMH/LEC. Take it for what its worth and grow them big or go home.

 

[Smithygreen]

Aight, I am going to put this question to bed. I have been growing for quite a while and for the last year I have used 24hr veg. It hasnt let me down. I have noticed much more growth and the only downside is I had to increase my feeding times. Electricity may be an issue for some but not me. I have grown about 7 different crops in this manner and my mother plants havent seen darkness in over a year and I actually have to trim the shit out of them now. I have noticed some stress for the first 7 to 10 days but after that its an exponential explosion of compact nodes. I have grown 2 crops of autos under 24 hr start to finish and they fucking loved it! The photos I have vegged 24hrs has been White Rhino, Cement Shoes, Fruity Pebbles, Tutankhamun, Bruce Banner, GG#4 and finally Purple Haze. All of them did extremely well and actually took to flowering much faster when I flipped them. I gave them a full 36 hours of darkness before turning 12/12. The autos I grew were Autoultimate and Auto Six Shooter. I NEVER had autos get that big before both were massive dank monsters. So to the dude that said plants only breathe when lights are off your a dumbass. They breathe all the time or they would die you dope! I used a ebb and flow system and a DWC system of my own design. If you are wanting more compact growth in a very fast time frame to cut down your veg time and have stronger plants, a 24hr veg time is for you. There are only three cons with this depending on what your medium is. If using soil you have to watch your plants closer and increase watering times a little bit plus adding a little bit more nutes. If using hydro get ready to increase some nutes and water every 4 hours if in flood and drain. Lastly is electric costs. It will go up a bit but its worth it if you get it right. I also found that keeping my veg room at 73 df at all times was best when in 24 he veg. I switched to LED lights so it hasnt been an issue. Fuck T5 lights and fuck HID as well unless its a ducted CMH/LEC. Take it for what its worth and grow them big or go home.

I have to correct the comment I made about HID lighting. I am now using the slimline Gavita E-Series and they are beast!

 

[Aqua Man]

I have to correct the comment I made about HID lighting. I am now using the slimline Gavita E-Series and they are beast!

Now just need to step up to gavita LED or similar and stand corrected again . Honestly it comes down to light output, the higher the output the faster the growth. This is especially important in flower since we have 12 hrs to get then the most light. Any form of HID will be less efficient and require more watts and produce more heat as a byproduct of efficacy. Going with a good LED these days is starting to become accepted as the new leader in the game.

That said there are many factors that change when switching so its not always a benefit if you already have everything dialed in and equipment to match.

You can definitely get the same amount of light using more power and producing more heat.

Its all about intensity and efficacy with spectrum coming in second when it comes to growth rates and flower size. This is why HPS will outperform MH in flower in terms of growth of buds. HPS is slightly more efficient than MH at equal wattage

 

[Smithygreen]

Now just need to step up to gavita LED or similar and stand corrected again . Honestly it comes down to light output, the higher the output the faster the growth. This is especially important in flower since we have 12 hrs to get then the most light. Any form of HID will be less efficient and require more watts and produce more heat as a byproduct of efficacy. Going with a good LED these days is starting to become accepted as the new leader in the game.

That said there are many factors that change when switching so its not always a benefit if you already have everything dialed in and equipment to match.

You can definitely get the same amount of light using more power and producing more heat.

Its all about intensity and efficacy with spectrum coming in second when it comes to growth rates and flower size. This is why HPS will outperform MH in flower in terms of growth of buds. HPS is slightly more efficient than MH at equal wattage

Everything you are saying is right on. I am just waiting for the cost of good LEDs to come down some more. Its happening as more manufacturers are competing and the tech is getting better every day!

 

[Aqua Man]

Everything you are saying is right on. I am just waiting for the cost of good LEDs to come down some more. Its happening as more manufacturers are competing and the tech is getting better every day!

Yeah the upfront is pretty dam steep right now. Especially if going commercial.