If you have chemistry questions....

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BuDGooDE

BuDGooDE

Hi Squiggly, can you please explain the reason ph of water drops when Nutrients are added. Im just beginner so if a stupid question LAUGH ME OUT !!!! ha ha :) Great Thread by the way :-)
 
LittleDabbie

LittleDabbie

Supporter
Hi Squiggly, can you please explain the reason ph of water drops when Nutrients are added. Im just beginner so if a stupid question LAUGH ME OUT !!!! ha ha :) Great Thread by the way :)

Many pH changes are caused by the nutrients themselves.

The more compounds in the water-measured in parts per million (ppm) or by the nutrient solution's electroconductivity (EC)-the greater their influence on pH.
For example, the urea used in many fertilizers is broken down by enzymes into one molecule of CO2 (a slightly acidic compound) and two molecules of ammonia (a slightly alkaline compound). This can cause erratic changes in pH.
In addition to urea, any compound containing an amide chemical bond (e.g., the proteinates used in many fertilizers) can, when broken down, affect the pH in unpredictable ways.
Nutrient absorption also leads to changes in pH. When a plant absorbs a lot of potassium ions, it gives out hydrogen ions in return. The result is a net decrease in pH. The situation reverses when the plant absorbs a lot of nitrate ions and gives out hydroxyl ions to compensate, thus increasing the pH (Bar-Yosef, Ganmore-Neumann, Imas, and Kafkafi, 1997; Ryan, P.R. and Delhaize, E., 2001). The higher the rate of nutrient absorption, the more dramatic the change in pH.
 
BuDGooDE

BuDGooDE

Many pH changes are caused by the nutrients themselves.

The more compounds in the water-measured in parts per million (ppm) or by the nutrient solution's electroconductivity (EC)-the greater their influence on pH.
For example, the urea used in many fertilizers is broken down by enzymes into one molecule of CO2 (a slightly acidic compound) and two molecules of ammonia (a slightly alkaline compound). This can cause erratic changes in pH.
In addition to urea, any compound containing an amide chemical bond (e.g., the proteinates used in many fertilizers) can, when broken down, affect the pH in unpredictable ways.
Nutrient absorption also leads to changes in pH. When a plant absorbs a lot of potassium ions, it gives out hydrogen ions in return. The result is a net decrease in pH. The situation reverses when the plant absorbs a lot of nitrate ions and gives out hydroxyl ions to compensate, thus increasing the pH (Bar-Yosef, Ganmore-Neumann, Imas, and Kafkafi, 1997; Ryan, P.R. and Delhaize, E., 2001). The higher the rate of nutrient absorption, the more dramatic the change in pH.
Thanks for the great explanation :-)
 
azmmjadvocates

azmmjadvocates

Thanks for the great explanation :)
Nice job little dabbie. DudgooDE, as well keep in mind acids are used in creation of nutrient formulas. Mine is set up so that I hit the ec (or tds, total dissolved solids) in solution im after in a rez change to a ph of 6 or 5.8. In other words i can put 120ml A&B in 20 gal of RO and its the TDS range I want and a PH spot on 6. This is advantagous because if you see the tds and ph arent where its suppose to be something went wrong in the mixing.


Ammonium nitate Nh4, needs to be broken down by enzymes as little dabbie states. the final process in soil is N03 which is redly uptaken over NH4. Normal rainwater is 5 or slightly higher, its ph is adjusted by buffers and nutrients broken down in soil like No3 waiting to be dissolved. If Nh4 is consumed the ph would drift down, No3 up, but for the plant to uptake it must be dissolved in solution.

Some say plants just eat what they want, if this were absolute we wouldnt have nute burn so it must be ballanced and treated imho as if selective uptake does not exist.

Back to Nh4 and No3 double salts today in formulas exist in hydroponics to ballance annions and cations. In sterile hydroponics there are no enzymes to break down Nh4 it exists in solution for ballance. imho

as little dabbie stated plants take a positive or negative and give one back but it isnt in an equal amout or their would be no change to PH, quitpro quo does not exist where nutrient uptake and root excretions exist.

I can start with a ph of 5.8 (or less) because I know my ph will only rise because my plants wont eat the Nh4 over the No3. Rapid Uptake, rapid PH rise, Rapid and massive traspiration.

Oh and for legal disclaimer, im only growing vegetables until licenced to grow cannabis again.
 
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squiggly

squiggly

i have a question.. ive tried useing activated bleaching earth to clean my oil with little luck. i followed the video on youtube "how bleaching earth works" best i could.. only difference is im trying to bleach oils in an ethyl alcohol mix. ive had better luck with activated charcoal crushed at different grits. what am i doing wrong? can you make hash oil clear??
Bit of a necro but I think this question really highlights what separates the layman from the capitalist.

At the end the day bleaching earth might do some stuff--but the reality is there is a multi billion dollar apparatus that purifies and produces drug product through much worse and nastier conditions than would ever be required to get a nice oil.

This is a classic case of making an easy thing hard.

Industry has actually skipped so far ahead of this step that it's either focused on getting such a pure extract via process (in the case of co2 extraction) or its focused on getting everything out and moving it forward to a secondary product (hydrocarbon/alcohol extractions fed into food or vape products)
 
Ignignokt

Ignignokt

This is a classic case of making an easy thing hard.
The problem with Industry is the product composition is (after all the processing) opaque.

You simply can't replace a well grown flower - the buds I see sold are mostly embarrassing ( To my eyes and nose ). When you realize most of these other modes are mostly for saving crops that probably should have been otherwise discarded, it becomes a bit less sexy. And then there are the practitioners. Ukiah,CA. local news reports that at least two labs go boom every week in unscheduled rapid disassembly. This does nothing to help how cannabis farming is perceived by the public. The last fire from one of these burned for 11 hours.

So it seems we have many citizen scientists are trying to make a buck and literally getting burned in the process. And when that product gets to market, does anyone really know what the fuck is in the concentrate? I find the chemistry fascinating however I'm not interested in being a test subject for the garbage to gold experiment.
 
A

astropot

1
0
1
I need a little help, I've started growing for the first time successfully, I have one plant in the early vegetative stage, i dont know any info on the seed. but it sprouted fine, and its growing great, i can visibly see how much its grown after the day ends, so far its got 14 big & medium smallish leaves, and 6 super super tiny leaves down the stem a bit. I water it every other day and it seems to be growing healthy, but the two round leaves, the only round leaves, they've curled up, discolored and dried out, almost three weeks ago. I'm pretty sure it was due to overwatering cause at first i watered it every morning, then started doing every other day just recently. so what I need help with is, even though it's still growing jagged leaves normally, will the two dried up leaves affect the plant in any way and it's growth? is there anyway to make those two leaves healthy again or are they done for? like I said, this is my first time successfully growing, (all the other times failed or never sprouted so I gave up.) and I don't want to f*** anything up than it already is. I mean, I live at the beach so I used sandy dirt & dollar tree soil to grow, and surprisingly it works just fine. I'm growing indoors cause it's always cold here, and im using natural light from the window sill, no grow lights. so it's all pretty low budget, non-pro stuff im doing. i dont want to give up though, just look at the picture I've attached. this is what my plant looks likes so far.
and anything helps really. I can't find much on google, and I don't know anyone I can ask so I came here, thanks in advance :)
 
Captain cola

Captain cola

Hello all, Squiggly here--resident chemistry asshole here at the farm :)

For the past year or so in my free time I have been compiling some useful chemistry information (and underlying concepts) as it regards cultivation--cannabis in particular (where I'm able to find specifics). I plan to really kick this project into high gear for this year, hoping to have something broad and publishable by the end of 2013.

In the mean time I have a few requests of you guys:

1. If you have a chemistry question--please either post it here. There is no such thing as a stupid question, if its something you want to know and don't, there is a high degree of certainty which says there are many people out there who are in that same situation. I want this guide to help all growers, beginning and expert, so its important for me to get an idea of what people do/don't/want to know.

2. If you know of any great resources which helped you to understand a chemical concept, a link to that in my inbox would be helpful. While I am pretty darn good at chemistry I am not ALWAYS good at teaching (although I like to think I take a piece-wise, one-concept-into-the-next approach). For this reason it will be helpful for me to check out methods that help people learn about chemistry and those which don't.

3. If you have a piece of chemical literature which you would like "translated" I would be happy to facilitate that. The scope and amount of material I can cover will be limited--I still have studies to pursue--so choose wisely.

As a thank you for helping me here, the fruits of my labor will be released for free (in a thread) here at the farm when it is completed. I'd like to offer, also, to answer any and all questions about chemistry here in this thread. I am more than willing to help those of you with more specific questions on an individual basis as well--as many farmers will certainly attest.

If your question is broad, please post it here so that everyone may share in the discussion. If it is a specific question relating only to your situation, please contact me through the message system.

Thanks!!!

P.S.

Topics open for question in which I have expertise:

Chemistry (my specialization is in organic synthesis--but I am knowledgeable elsewhere)
Biochemistry
Molecular Biology (intermediate)
Physics (intermediate)
Genetics (cursory)


This discussion is not limited to only the act of growing. Extractions, assays, other tests, lighting questions, etc, all apply here.

Be assured, if I am not fairly certain of the answer I am providing you--that I will say as much. It is not my intention to pretend I know more than I do, but rather to share that which I do know.

My inbox is ALSO open to submissions to this document--and as it will be in a thread when released, it will be a living document which can be added to and corrected over time if other information is found.

PLEASE DO NOT HESITATE TO CORRECT ME IF I GET SOMETHING WRONG--THIS PROCESS IS ABOUT FINDING REAL TRUTH, AND REAL EXPERIMENTAL/LITERATURE VALUES THAT ALL FARMERS MAY BENEFIT FROM. THERE IS NO "BEING CORRECT" IN THIS THREAD, THERE IS ONLY "PROVING CORRECTNESS."
Hello squiggly, on the mixing of nutes I have been using the recommended mixing directions on fox farm feeding guide its week 6 flowering. I have been using f.f. Plant food tiger bloom and grow big. Last week and yesterday fed it beastie bloom 1/4 tea with 1/2 of the other 3. It appears to have nitrogen def. I can't get a meter until Friday. Any suggestions.
 
cemchris

cemchris

Staff member
Supporter
Well now I see that you are back around I have a question that has been hard for me to find the answer to.

Is Mono Ammonium Phosphate compatible with any of the following in a concentrated solution for dosers (1:500ish). From what I have gathered it isn't. Trying to avoid having to run an extra doser just for 1 chem or adjusting so I don't have to.

(Main)
Calcium Nitrate
Magnesium Nitrate
Potassium Nitrate
Magnesium Sulfate
Mono Potassium Phosphate
Muriate of Potash


(traces low amount)
Iron Cheltate (DTPA)
Manganese Sulfate
Boric Acid
Iron Sulfate
Copper Cheltate (EDTA)
Zinc Cheltate (EDTA
Zinc Sulfate
Molybdic Acid
 
MedicalDave

MedicalDave

Industry has actually skipped so far ahead of this step that it's either focused on getting such a pure extract via process (in the case of co2 extraction) or its focused on getting everything out and moving it forward to a secondary product (hydrocarbon/alcohol extractions fed into food or vape products)
Hello squiggly,

What are your thoughts on the attached process?
Profitable at 400$ CAD a kg THC or CBD?
 
squiggly

squiggly

Well now I see that you are back around I have a question that has been hard for me to find the answer to.

Is Mono Ammonium Phosphate compatible with any of the following in a concentrated solution for dosers (1:500ish). From what I have gathered it isn't. Trying to avoid having to run an extra doser just for 1 chem or adjusting so I don't have to.

(Main)
Calcium Nitrate
Magnesium Nitrate
Potassium Nitrate
Magnesium Sulfate
Mono Potassium Phosphate
Muriate of Potash


(traces low amount)
Iron Cheltate (DTPA)
Manganese Sulfate
Boric Acid
Iron Sulfate
Copper Cheltate (EDTA)
Zinc Cheltate (EDTA
Zinc Sulfate
Molybdic Acid
That’s a lot of stuff, let me get back to you when I have a minute to go through it.

Hello squiggly,

What are your thoughts on the attached process?
Profitable at 400$ CAD a kg THC or CBD?
Do you have a link to the paper? This is pretty bare bones.
 
MedicalDave

MedicalDave

P

Peetmoss

2
0
1
Hello all, Squiggly here--resident chemistry asshole here at the farm :)

For the past year or so in my free time I have been compiling some useful chemistry information (and underlying concepts) as it regards cultivation--cannabis in particular (where I'm able to find specifics). I plan to really kick this project into high gear for this year, hoping to have something broad and publishable by the end of 2013.

In the mean time I have a few requests of you guys:

1. If you have a chemistry question--please either post it here. There is no such thing as a stupid question, if its something you want to know and don't, there is a high degree of certainty which says there are many people out there who are in that same situation. I want this guide to help all growers, beginning and expert, so its important for me to get an idea of what people do/don't/want to know.

2. If you know of any great resources which helped you to understand a chemical concept, a link to that in my inbox would be helpful. While I am pretty darn good at chemistry I am not ALWAYS good at teaching (although I like to think I take a piece-wise, one-concept-into-the-next approach). For this reason it will be helpful for me to check out methods that help people learn about chemistry and those which don't.

3. If you have a piece of chemical literature which you would like "translated" I would be happy to facilitate that. The scope and amount of material I can cover will be limited--I still have studies to pursue--so choose wisely.

As a thank you for helping me here, the fruits of my labor will be released for free (in a thread) here at the farm when it is completed. I'd like to offer, also, to answer any and all questions about chemistry here in this thread. I am more than willing to help those of you with more specific questions on an individual basis as well--as many farmers will certainly attest.

If your question is broad, please post it here so that everyone may share in the discussion. If it is a specific question relating only to your situation, please contact me through the message system.

Thanks!!!

P.S.

Topics open for question in which I have expertise:

Chemistry (my specialization is in organic synthesis--but I am knowledgeable elsewhere)
Biochemistry
Molecular Biology (intermediate)
Physics (intermediate)
Genetics (cursory)


This discussion is not limited to only the act of growing. Extractions, assays, other tests, lighting questions, etc, all apply here.

Be assured, if I am not fairly certain of the answer I am providing you--that I will say as much. It is not my intention to pretend I know more than I do, but rather to share that which I do know.

My inbox is ALSO open to submissions to this document--and as it will be in a thread when released, it will be a living document which can be added to and corrected over time if other information is found.

PLEASE DO NOT HESITATE TO CORRECT ME IF I GET SOMETHING WRONG--THIS PROCESS IS ABOUT FINDING REAL TRUTH, AND REAL EXPERIMENTAL/LITERATURE VALUES THAT ALL FARMERS MAY BENEFIT FROM. THERE IS NO "BEING CORRECT" IN THIS THREAD, THERE IS ONLY "PROVING CORRECTNESS."
 
squiggly

squiggly

Certainly. For your consideration;
[URL]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-0978-9 [\url]

I also made a thread for discussion with a summery on the article.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...usters“-cannabinoids-grown-from-yeast.103073/

Pretty amazing advancement if they are able to scale it up. I could see it being used extensively for edibles and concentrates in the future.
Looks to me like scale up will be the issue here.

I’m more familiar with the challenges associated with scale up in a manufacturing train designed to be modular and intended for this sort of pilot-scale development.

For a process like this I’d imagine you’d be building it out yourself, but would likely need to shop out the development work (this is actually the space that I operate in). That can get very expensive, and the more steps the worse off you are.

I imagine you’d end up with significant impurities in a multi step process at scale and it’s possible you’d be looking at column chromatography which doesn’t scale well for anything that isn’t extremely high margin (like chemotherapies). These are the kinds of problems that can jump out at you during development and some of them can be project killers.

It’s likely this can be made to work by the right group, but finding the capital and the clear plan to success will be difficult.
 
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