MIMedGrower
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Just simple physics. More light produce from a single area like a spot light would create more intense light over a lower area and would need to be further than the same wattage dispersed over an area.
Let's not compare apples and oranges. Ppfd is ppfd one is not going to create any more bleaching than the other.
Can you link me the exact fixtures you are using from each and over what area and i will try to point out why you may be seeing this
Added: let's not forget lux is not an ideal way to measure for ppdf and should only be used as a rough guide. While the lux may be the same the ppfd can be much different.
Do you have a link to the timbers?https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/lamps/products/hlg-600-rspecModel 3VL
This three (3) COB LED light fixture features Bridgelux Vero29 COBs and a Meanwell driver. Remote driver placement helps with managing heat and custom color temperatures are available. Designed and engineered to cover a 2 x 4 coverage area for full cycle/flowering.timbergrowlights.com
(I have the 600r kit but they dont list the height recommendations for it, the prebuilt one is the same specs though)
Im not comparing apples to oranges just stating the fact that I have to back my hlgs off more than my timbers which is consistent with the manufacturers testing and recommendations. Do you also have first hand experience with the newer timbers and hlg lights?
Part of what causes bleaching is heat stress and the timber's heatsinks and open design do a better job of keeping that heat above the fixture and away from the canopy than hlg's lamps do. For me it doesn't really give one light an edge over the other but in a situation with limited height like you mentioned, based on my experience and the manufacturers own info I would make the opposite recommendation and say the timber would be better.
Well will get me going. I was on a mad dash for a light but have 1 to get me going til I figure out what I want of the other brands.Cobs
They are much like spider farmer. Seem like a nice budget light. They use cheap accessory diodes like other chinese lamps but have a real nice heatsink with a convenient dimmer.
Do you have a link to the timbers?
Just the one I already posted and you just quotedDo you have a link to the timbers?
Well will get me going. I was on a mad dash for a light but have 1 to get me going til I figure out what I want of the other brands.
Just the one I already posted and you just quoted
Ok I can buy that. But that would also lead to more light bleed if hung higher and i would also assume lower wattageTimber says their layout is more diffuse than a board.
Ok I can buy that. Bit that would also lead to more light bleed if not hung as high and i would also assume lower wattage
Ok so those are 100w per unit. Compared to an hlg 100w board and the board can be run closer like 12 inches.
Now take the hlg 600 and they run about 160w per board so need a further distance.
What I'm talking about applea to oranges
I think they are considerably more money for the same wattage and coverage. But yes you can do the same with QBs and infact most companies are skipping this and going straight to strips.Their par maps are as or more consitant than most.
And they are close in price to hlg but with a much nicer lamp. Lamp quality wise.
And the vero version 7 cobs are really good. They have version 8 now though of course. ;-)
No he said under the same lux. I do agree with you but thats not what he said.4 boards right next to each other or 6 cobs spaced out is the reason boards bleach easier.
There were many side by sides. Until recently timber won all the time. And they build a strip light now for those situations. But still recomend cobs for grows like mine.
No he said under the same lux. I do agree with you but thats not what he said.
I think hlg may claim 4x4 but not sure.I think they are both 600 watt lamps. Pars are similar. And the big timber is $800 but they are not claiming 5x5 like hlg. Which is an exageration I have read.
Whos lumping them together? Have you been reading this whole thread becuase I touched on this already earlier:example hlg 600 covers a 5x5 with 4 boards. The timbers do not cover that with 4 cobs.
So it depends on the light and boards you can't lump them together like that.
If using multiple hlg 100s at the same wattage as the cobs them you can run the boards closer. But if running more wattahe through less boards then you cannot.
FourthCity said:The difference between the three is kind of in the perspective and hard to quantify. Part of what makes it a little difficult is that hlg suggests their lights are suitable for more sqft/watt than timber. If I were to judge them based on how well they perform over their recommended foot print as a single light then I would say that the hlg does not perform as well as the timber. The hlg has more drop off towards the edges of its recommended foot print but the timber has the greater drop off outside of its foot print.
So for example my 3vl's are recommended for a 4x2 space with 320 watts each and my two hlg 600's which are really about 620 watts are rated for 5x5 (both flowering). My flowering area is 4ftx12ft with my two timbers bookending the hlgs in the middle. I have the hlg's each covering only a 4x4 area, using and judging them in this manner I see no discernable difference in performance between the lights at all.
Ok so those are 100w per unit. Compared to an hlg 100w board and the board can be run closer like 12 inches.
Now take the hlg 600 and they run about 160w per board so need a further distance
Lol, now whos comparing apples to oranges. The hlgs put more waste heat into the plants compared to the timbers when the lux is the same and when they are the same distance from the canopy. Raising the hlgs and increasing their power gives more room for airflow between my plants and the fixtures to avoid heat stress without a loss in lux.No he said under the same lux. I do agree with you but thats not what he said.
Heat stress? From 18" led? You kidding me? IR is what causes the heat stressWhos lumping them together? Have you been reading this whole thread becuase I touched on this already earlier:
Lol, now whos comparing apples to oranges. The hlgs put more waste heat into the plants compared to the timbers when the lux is the same and when they are the same distance from the canopy. Raising the hlgs and increasing their power gives more room for airflow between my plants and the fixtures to avoid heat stress without a loss in lux.
+1https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/lamps/products/hlg-600-rspecModel 3VL
This three (3) COB LED light fixture features Bridgelux Vero29 COBs and a Meanwell driver. Remote driver placement helps with managing heat and custom color temperatures are available. Designed and engineered to cover a 2 x 4 coverage area for full cycle/flowering.timbergrowlights.com
(I have the 600r kit but they dont list the height recommendations for it, the prebuilt one is the same specs though)
Im not comparing apples to oranges just stating the fact that I have to back my hlgs off more than my timbers which is consistent with the manufacturers testing and recommendations. Do you also have first hand experience with the newer timbers and hlg lights?
Part of what causes bleaching is heat stress and the timber's heatsinks and open design do a better job of keeping that heat above the fixture and away from the canopy than hlg's lamps do. For me it doesn't really give one light an edge over the other but in a situation with limited height like you mentioned, based on my experience and the manufacturers own info I would make the opposite recommendation and say the timber would be better.
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