Mimed’s Perpetual Thread

basscaptain · Nov 16, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
Oh and @Beachwalker if your water is only 100 ppm the ph of 8.9 is only temporary. It will change to what you put it in or in it easily.

Or do what is working for you now. Im just explaining about water alkalinity and how it affects the medium over time.

this is the part I'm watching cause we know how bad my water is...... and I have never had to deal with this so my OLD/ Hard head azz is trying to learn something New

Phylex · Nov 16, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
Or do what is working for you

This right here. We can definitely learn quite a bit from each other with all of our different, shared experiences. However, something to always keep in mind is what works for some, may not necessarily work for you. There's just way to many different variables involved. For instance, I always PH my water/feed. I've tried the method of not PH'ing and allow the soil to naturally buffer only to have terrible results and very unhappy plants. It didn't work for me and my specific conditions. Yet it works perfectly for MiMedGrower. I also used to PH to the optimal 6.5 for soil and found in my specific environment, the plants are the happiest when I PH to 6.2. That's what works for me. But that may not work for others. There's just way to many variables that can play a role in someone's results with any particular method, that you just need to find what works best for you through trial and error.

It's impossible to mirror someone else to gain the same results. But we can be selective in what we learn from each other and most definitely apply certain techniques while achieving great results.

Moshmen · Nov 16, 2019

basscaptain said:
I understand this
I understand people's water is screwed
but I can't get my head around why your using ph up and down to keep running around the car, seem to me in my mind you guys are casing this perfect # in your head, that the man up stairs didn't put out there.....
when this all started there was no ph up and down= there was water......

so I'm Really Lost here with all these ppm..ec.% stuff wow seems to me like this is more a Job then anything :) Now I'll shut up

I do t understand everything in this water discussion what I do know is i phew my water for the first 1-1 1/2 years and seem to have nutrient trouble every run! Now I believe I have my soil amended correctly now, and switched to collecting rain water and using water only, so far I couldn’t be happier! So glad I visited the farm it’s you guys that convinced me that as long as conditions are correct aka buffered media and ppm is under control , ph value can be a misleading tool! I wish I was smart enuff to explain what I think I know! Lmao

I found that this actually saves time, money and lots of work , ya only been 5-6 weeks but so far no measuring and mixing!no chlorine to get rid of, No guessing on ph or adding to much! I’m sure I’ll have problems we always do but so far I’m super happy I switched my style to letting the soil do all the work!

Moshmen · Nov 16, 2019

Phylex said:
This right here. We can definitely learn quite a bit from each other with all of our different, shared experiences. However, something to always keep in mind is what works for some, may not necessarily work for you. There's just way to many different variables involved. For instance, I always PH my water/feed. I've tried the method of not PH'ing and allow the soil to naturally buffer only to have terrible results and very unhappy plants. It didn't work for me and my specific conditions. Yet it works perfectly for MiMedGrower. I also used to PH to the optimal 6.5 for soil and found in my specific environment, the plants are the happiest when I PH to 6.2. That's what works for me. But that may not work for others. There's just way to many variables that can play a role in someone's results with any particular method, that you just need to find what works best for you through trial and error.

It's impossible to mirror someone else to gain the same results. But we can be selective in what we learn from each other and most definitely apply certain techniques while achieving great results.

Fucking awsome answer! I have picked bits from all these guys to make my own process!

MIMedGrower · Nov 16, 2019

Phylex said:
This right here. We can definitely learn quite a bit from each other with all of our different, shared experiences. However, something to always keep in mind is what works for some, may not necessarily work for you. There's just way to many different variables involved. For instance, I always PH my water/feed. I've tried the method of not PH'ing and allow the soil to naturally buffer only to have terrible results and very unhappy plants. It didn't work for me and my specific conditions. Yet it works perfectly for MiMedGrower. I also used to PH to the optimal 6.5 for soil and found in my specific environment, the plants are the happiest when I PH to 6.2. That's what works for me. But that may not work for others. There's just way to many variables that can play a role in someone's results with any particular method, that you just need to find what works best for you through trial and error.

It's impossible to mirror someone else to gain the same results. But we can be selective in what we learn from each other and most definitely apply certain techniques while achieving great results.

So very well said.

Srenots · Nov 16, 2019

basscaptain said:
Nice thing about the cold... when you forget to cook dinner at least what you took out for dinner it's hanging out for the next day

crock pot...

Aqua Man · Nov 16, 2019

Ok 1 last kick at the cat. @Phylex is right it doesn't work for everyone. @Beachwalker with only 100ppm you have very little carbonate and bicarbonate I can promise this with the amount of water reports I have seen. @Phylex is probably a different story.

Ph is ph and alkalinity is alkalinity in both soil and hydro. So let me put it this way. In tap water in hydro we don't usually need to add alkalinity because it exists to varying degrees. In RO water it has none so we need to add. The premixed soil has this added and therefore has all the alkalinity needed to stabilize the ph at the desired ph. As seen when doing a slurry test. Pure peat moss (which is acidic) needs this added so we add say lime to get the desired ph. So the soil is our mix of ph balancing up and down to get a stable ph and since it has alot of both the soil ph will be stable for a very long time even when small amount of alkaline or acidic water is added. Now we feed out plants without phing the water and the soil changes the ph of our water. Now over a long period of time the water we add can influence the soil ph if it's high alkalinity or highly acidic. So some tap water is not well suited and should be ph'ed.

However this takes a very long time an when the last time you seen a soil ph rise? Using alkaline tap water will cause ph of the soil to rise not fall.

Now adding acid or nutrients (which are generally acidic because of the ratios were use) will over time cause soil ph to drop. This is almost always due to a build up of nutrients in the root zone. It can't be the water source because it's alkaline in ever single municipal water supply. Or the acid added which breaks down so unlikely and we use weak acids in soil like Citrix etc. That break down fast.

So adding lime and acid is just counter productive. And changing water ph to feed the acid break down fast but alkalinity lime does not.

So if you see a ph drop it's 99% sure you are getting a build up of nutrients.

One other factor is in flower because of the the photoperiod plants affect soil ph during photosynthesis they take up h+ raising ph and during dark period the release h+ lowering soil ph. So you may see a slightly lower soil ph in flower.

Ok that concludes this novel I tried to keep it basic.

Beachwalker · Nov 16, 2019

Thanks for explaining that it was very clear. I was reading quite a bit on this today and I wandered into a few charts and graphs before I glazed over LOL

I admit I got into the deep end a little reading up on this but I also used to work with water and various chemicals extensively so I do have a fairly basic but rudimentary understanding

What I'm saying is that nutrients are always going to build up and therefore drop soil pH eventually

This happen to every plant without the dolomite, with all liquid pH to 6.5 the whole grow, some even dropped into the upper fours

By adding a certain amount of Dolemite to my ffof soil it never drops. I think only twice in the two years I've been adding lime I've seen a plant go below 6.0

Agree with Phylex on this one, when I didn't pH my plants suffered from go, not trying to change what I do & whats working as was said above, just trying to understand; thanks for all the information!

Aqua Man · Nov 16, 2019

Beachwalker said:
Thanks for explaining that it was very clear. I was reading quite a bit on this today and I wandered into a few charts and graphs before I glazed over LOL

I admit I got into the deep end a little reading up on this but I also used to work with water and various chemicals extensively so I do have a fairly basic but rudimentary understanding

What I'm saying is that nutrients are always going to build up and therefore drop soil pH eventually

This happen to every plant without the dolomite, with all liquid pH to 6.5 the whole grow, some even dropped into the upper fours

By adding a certain amount of Dolemite to my ffof soil it never drops. I think only twice in the two years I've been adding lime I've seen a plant go below 6.0

Agree with Phylex on this one, when I didn't pH my plants suffered from go, not trying to change what I do & whats working as was said above, just trying to understand; thanks for all the information!

Think of this. You have a problem with low soil ph but are adding ph down that lowers ph?

You may be feeding to heavy is all. But yes adding dolomite will aid you if that's the case

Beachwalker · Nov 16, 2019

Aqua Man said:
Think of this. You have a problem with low soil ph but are adding ph down that lowers ph?

That's why I think when Michigan uses the 8.0 its why his pH stays up, however when I use my own unadjustedwater at 8.9% I have nothing but trouble

For me this answered the question:

Phylex said:
This right here. We can definitely learn quite a bit from each other with all of our different, shared experiences. However, something to always keep in mind is what works for some, may not necessarily work for you. There's just way to many different variables involved. For instance, I always PH my water/feed. I've tried the method of not PH'ing and allow the soil to naturally buffer only to have terrible results and very unhappy plants. It didn't work for me and my specific conditions. Yet it works perfectly for MiMedGrower. I also used to PH to the optimal 6.5 for soil and found in my specific environment, the plants are the happiest when I PH to 6.2. That's what works for me. But that may not work for others. There's just way to many variables that can play a role in someone's results with any particular method, that you just need to find what works best for you through trial and error.

It's impossible to mirror someone else to gain the same results. But we can be selective in what we learn from each other and most definitely apply certain techniques while achieving great results.

basscaptain · Nov 16, 2019

I think this got missed up I took I need 1d1 to help delete from here... how did this happen

Sry MiM

basscaptain · Nov 16, 2019

basscaptain said:
Nice thing about the cold... when you forget to cook dinner at least what you took out for dinner it's hanging out for the next day

basscaptain said:
Just a little bit more to set up this morning

basscaptain said:
I can add more now and have 2 back up drivers now also...

1D1can we pull/ delate or just move to my Zoo Please....................... I know you Hate me...:) LOL
TY :0 have a Great Day:)

sry MIMed I'm using to many phones and etc....

Moshmen · Nov 16, 2019

Aqua Man said:
Ok 1 last kick at the cat. @Phylex is right it doesn't work for everyone. @Beachwalker with only 100ppm you have very little carbonate and bicarbonate I can promise this with the amount of water reports I have seen. @Phylex is probably a different story.

Ph is ph and alkalinity is alkalinity in both soil and hydro. So let me put it this way. In tap water in hydro we don't usually need to add alkalinity because it exists to varying degrees. In RO water it has none so we need to add. The premixed soil has this added and therefore has all the alkalinity needed to stabilize the ph at the desired ph. As seen when doing a slurry test. Pure peat moss (which is acidic) needs this added so we add say lime to get the desired ph. So the soil is our mix of ph balancing up and down to get a stable ph and since it has alot of both the soil ph will be stable for a very long time even when small amount of alkaline or acidic water is added. Now we feed out plants without phing the water and the soil changes the ph of our water. Now over a long period of time the water we add can influence the soil ph if it's high alkalinity or highly acidic. So some tap water is not well suited and should be ph'ed.

However this takes a very long time an when the last time you seen a soil ph rise? Using alkaline tap water will cause ph of the soil to rise not fall.

Now adding acid or nutrients (which are generally acidic because of the ratios were use) will over time cause soil ph to drop. This is almost always due to a build up of nutrients in the root zone. It can't be the water source because it's alkaline in ever single municipal water supply. Or the acid added which breaks down so unlikely and we use weak acids in soil like Citrix etc. That break down fast.

So adding lime and acid is just counter productive. And changing water ph to feed the acid break down fast but alkalinity lime does not.

So if you see a ph drop it's 99% sure you are getting a build up of nutrients.

One other factor is in flower because of the the photoperiod plants affect soil ph during photosynthesis they take up h+ raising ph and during dark period the release h+ lowering soil ph. So you may see a slightly lower soil ph in flower.

Ok that concludes this novel I tried to keep it basic.

And aqua says he’s not a soil guy! Bah I call bull shit! Lol soil, coco, hydro hell I don’t think it matters ! Lmao

MIMedGrower · Nov 16, 2019

basscaptain said:
I think this got missed up I took I need 1d1 to help delete from here... how did this happen

Sry MiM

Im just sad we cant seem to teach the most basic concept of container gardening. The info we are given is standard for container gardening in the greenhouse food/flower production industry.

I first read it in the premier horticulture (pro mix) website and then saw it in greenhouse fertilization management guides. Its also on jacks classic website.

The standard is again. If you have 150 ppm water you are perfect and with proper fertilizing habits there should be no ph drop for months in buffered potting soil.

If you have over 250 ppm its time to consider mixing in ro water to achieve 150 ppm. Or have to add acid to neutralize the high calcium.

And yes they are just guidelines. Water content can change what is needed. Like mine has a bit too much iron. So i have to use a lot of runoff to keep it from building up.

Otherwise if you have acceptable water and you keep dropping ph it is from fertilizer buildup likely. Or worse adding uneeded ph down (acid) to get to an arbitrary ph # from an incorrect ph chart floating around on the internet. The actual solubility of elements is in a much wider range than the silly charts on the weed sites.

Then the grower adds lime. Or has already made these mistakes of salt buildup or too much acid introduced to the medium and adds it up front to mitigate bad container management habits.

None of this is my opinion folks. It is standard professional growing info.

And again. I have no agenda here. I am just explaining what happens. Grow any way you like and works for you.

But the constant help threads about ph and nutrients say it isnt working.

Only weed specific companies have instructed to adjust ph. The big companies and general ag never mention it.

Its really only on the bottles. So you use more weed specific products and keep going in circles. These companies knew weed growers didn't know anything about growing.

Its my thread so i thought i would try one more time.

:-) good growing everyone!

MIMedGrower · Nov 16, 2019

basscaptain said:
1D1can we pull/ delate or just move to my Zoo Please....................... I know you Hate me...:) LOL
TY :0 have a Great Day:)

sry MIMed I'm using to many phones and etc....

Everything is fine. I do not approve of editing threads. Thats for people with agendas like sales.

AtomicRoostr · Nov 16, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
Im just sad we cant seem to teach the most basic concept of container gardening. The info we are given is standard for container gardening in the greenhouse food/flower production industry.

I first read it in the premier horticulture (pro mix) website and then saw it in greenhouse fertilization management guides. Its also on jacks classic website.

The standard is again. If you have 150 ppm water you are perfect and with proper fertilizing habits there should be no ph drop for months in buffered potting soil.

If you have over 250 ppm its time to consider mixing in ro water to achieve 150 ppm. Or have to add acid to neutralize the high calcium.

And yes they are just guidelines. Water content can change what is needed. Like mine has a bit too much iron. So i have to use a lot of runoff to keep it from building up.

Otherwise if you have acceptable water and you keep dropping ph it is from fertilizer buildup likely. Or worse adding uneeded ph down (acid) to get to an arbitrary ph # from an incorrect ph chart floating around on the internet. The actual solubility of elements is in a much wider range than the silly charts on the weed sites.

Then the grower adds lime. Or has already made these mistakes of salt buildup or too much acid introduced to the medium and adds it up front to mitigate bad container management habits.

None of this is my opinion folks. It is standard professional growing info.

And again. I have no agenda here. I am just explaining what happens. Grow any way you like and works for you.

But the constant help threads about ph and nutrients say it isnt working.

Only weed specific companies have instructed to adjust ph. The big companies and general ag never mention it.

Its really only on the bottles. So you use more weed specific products and keep going in circles. These companies knew weed growers didn't know anything about growing.

Its my thread so i thought i would try one more time.

:-) good growing everyone!

It is kinda sad. People want to replicate what they see others doing and don't understand that just because i have the same lights, soil. Nutrients i should have the same result. Not trying to pick on anyone or call out anyone. Best way to learn is from mistakes. And i make them myself.

Dirtbag · Nov 16, 2019

Jesus.. if anything this discussion has re-affirmed my decision to switch to rockwool lol.

MIMedGrower · Nov 16, 2019

Dirtbag said:
Jesus.. if anything this discussion has re-affirmed my decision to switch to rockwool lol.

Wait, didnt you already have a ph problem? ;-)

AtomicRoostr · Nov 16, 2019

Dirtbag said:
Jesus.. if anything this discussion has re-affirmed my decision to switch to rockwool lol.

That was easy. Eliminate the problem, no soil no problem.

Dirtbag · Nov 16, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
Wait, didnt you already have a ph problem? ;-)

Self inflicted. Easy to fix thanks to the lack of buffering though. lol

Mimed’s Perpetual Thread

Mimed’s Perpetual Thread

basscaptain

Phylex

Moshmen

Moshmen

MIMedGrower

Srenots

Aqua Man

Beachwalker

Aqua Man

Beachwalker

basscaptain

basscaptain

Moshmen

MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

AtomicRoostr

Dirtbag

MIMedGrower

AtomicRoostr

Dirtbag

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