My First Indoor Setup! Pointers?

gardnguyahoy · Oct 3, 2015

Okay... Day 75. Chop chop

Today i chopped ghost pot #2
If you go back in my log youll see that pot #2 was my experiemental plant. The big technique i tried was defoliation, in which you pretty much remove all the leaf that isnt newly growing, fan leaves etc... Apparently it makes your plants produce more, however pot #2 seemed to have prodcued the least. And while the lower buds got bigger due to the open canopy, they ended uplooking preemie...underdeveloped. The colas are smaller than the other two ghost plants. Not too happy with it and i dont think ill do it again.

Cutting ghost #1 who looks like the biggest producer on day 77 looking forward to finding a dry harvest weight and start my next crop.

Positive vibes from gardenguys garden! Respect.

Seamaiden · Oct 3, 2015

gardnguyahoy said:
If you go back in my log youll see that pot #2 was my experiemental plant. The big technique i tried was defoliation, in which you pretty much remove all the leaf that isnt newly growing, fan leaves etc... Apparently it makes your plants produce more, however pot #2 seemed to have prodcued the least. And while the lower buds got bigger due to the open canopy, they ended uplooking preemie...underdeveloped.

That's because you removed all the solar panels. I've never understood the logic behind defoliation (the removal of leaves) in response to trying to get bigger and better buds. Let me explain in a manner I hope will make a lot more sense.

A plant is geared to do two huge things--grow and reproduce. They grow by converting sunlight into sugars, which are exchanged with microbes, back and forth. The conversion of sunlight into sugars occurs mostly in the plant's solar panels, which evolved specifically to capture sunlight. While the conversion of sunlight into sugars can occur in the plant's reproductive organs, they are not normally the primary source or driver of these conversions, nor are they really configured in such a manner so as to allow for best collection and capture of sunlight. This is what leaves are for.

So if you remove the leaves, you're removing the plant's solar collectors, which means you're removing its ability to convert that light into sugars, which is how the plant grows and gives us flowers.

Another aspect to keep in mind is the plant's potential to convert sugars, which is limited by a few factors and can be increased by others.

What people should really be doing, in my humble opinion, is treating their cannabis like date palms and removing fruit (or in our case flowers) that has the poorest potential. This potential is the potential crop, or total yield possible from that given plant. The plant will flower and yield something even if you do nothing. The question then becomes one of quality of yield. We're not after little popcorny larfy buds, we want NUGGIES. This is achieved by doing some intelligent pruning, but not removing solar panels, removing flower sites is how. This is called by a few different names, one popular term is lollipopping.

What the goal is in that method is to remove the flower sites that will not develop well, those with the poorest potential, which leaves the plant free to spend its available energy on growing the best flowers, the most desirable flowers. Go to Dateland's site, read their date farming primer here: http://www.dateland.com/how-are-dates-grown/
And you'll TOTALLY get it. Or at least, once I read that, I totally got it.

In summary, instead of removing solar panels, pinch out those lower bud sites instead. Let the plant photosynthesize as much as it can (without creating a hairy monster) and I think you'll really be very pleasantly surprised by the difference in results.

gardnguyahoy · Oct 3, 2015

Seamaiden said:
That's because you removed all the solar panels. I've never understood the logic behind defoliation (the removal of leaves) in response to trying to get bigger and better buds. Let me explain in a manner I hope will make a lot more sense.

A plant is geared to do two huge things--grow and reproduce. They grow by converting sunlight into sugars, which are exchanged with microbes, back and forth. The conversion of sunlight into sugars occurs mostly in the plant's solar panels, which evolved specifically to capture sunlight. While the conversion of sunlight into sugars can occur in the plant's reproductive organs, they are not normally the primary source or driver of these conversions, nor are they really configured in such a manner so as to allow for best collection and capture of sunlight. This is what leaves are for.

So if you remove the leaves, you're removing the plant's solar collectors, which means you're removing its ability to convert that light into sugars, which is how the plant grows and gives us flowers.

Another aspect to keep in mind is the plant's potential to convert sugars, which is limited by a few factors and can be increased by others.

What people should really be doing, in my humble opinion, is treating their cannabis like date palms and removing fruit (or in our case flowers) that has the poorest potential. This potential is the potential crop, or total yield possible from that given plant. The plant will flower and yield something even if you do nothing. The question then becomes one of quality of yield. We're not after little popcorny larfy buds, we want NUGGIES. This is achieved by doing some intelligent pruning, but not removing solar panels, removing flower sites is how. This is called by a few different names, one popular term is lollipopping.

What the goal is in that method is to remove the flower sites that will not develop well, those with the poorest potential, which leaves the plant free to spend its available energy on growing the best flowers, the most desirable flowers. Go to Dateland's site, read their date farming primer here: http://www.dateland.com/how-are-dates-grown/
And you'll TOTALLY get it. Or at least, once I read that, I totally got it.

In summary, instead of removing solar panels, pinch out those lower bud sites instead. Let the plant photosynthesize as much as it can (without creating a hairy monster) and I think you'll really be very pleasantly surprised by the difference in results.

Thanks for the info sea, informative and educating as always! These are among the methods i experiemented with, i tried topping, fimming (only successful on my outdoor plant that got ate by caterpillars in the end lol) LST, super cropping, lollipopping and defoliation. I like ALL of these methods EXCEPT defoliation, and i kind of felt the "solar panel" thing in my heart, i knew it didnt make any sense....but after reading a long post by a member here on the farm (to remain nameless) and some very convincing photos to go along with it i decided to basically "sacrifice" (thats how i looked at it when i did it) my plant to learn about the method first hand. And that i did lol. The always informative @Seamaiden to the rescue! Thanks again for your time and knowledge. Always a blessing on my thread. Positive vibes lady sea : )

Lurkin4yrs · Oct 3, 2015

Some strains Benifit from defoilation and some dont, I would never completely remove all the fan leaves more like a strategic removal of large fan leaves over good bud sites.

ShroomKing · Oct 3, 2015

On a related note.
I would never defoilate any plant in early to mid flower unless it's been "trained" with some prior defoiliation in veg.
And I would never remove more than 30% of a plants fans at any one time.

Personally I would never defoilate if growing outdoor. I only defoilate lower canopy indoors for airflow and ease of watering.

3N1GM4 · Oct 3, 2015

I only remove the large fan leaves that are shading a bud underneath. Sometimes they are easily tucked under and I dont remove them at all.

gardnguyahoy · Oct 3, 2015

ShroomKing said:
On a related note.
I would never defoilate any plant in early to mid flower unless it's been "trained" with some prior defoiliation in veg.
And I would never remove more than 30% of a plants fans at any one time.

Personally I would never defoilate if growing outdoor. I only defoilate lower canopy indoors for airflow and ease of watering.

Thats pretty much the treatment all my plants got. Removing fan leaves wherever there was prime growth, exposing nice buds ans pinching off and destroying larf. However in the article i read it said to remove 75 -85 % of fan leaves and to do it once four weeks in and agaim two weeks after. But ONLY if it had been thorougly defoilated throughout its life. Which it was. From when i uppotted it to a 5 gal (bout a foot tall) i started its defoliated life. If you go back to the beginning of my log youll see the same plant before flower being stripped out, and before i stated the log as well. However. The defoliation during flower was by far its heaviest session. And i was simply going with the articles suggestion to get the articles results using the word "aggressive" to describe his methods of defoliation. The photos were very convincing.

And outdoor forget bout it! Agreed! The sun is just too powerful thru the canopy!

Lurkin4yrs said:
Some strains Benifit from defoilation and some dont, I would never completely remove all the fan leaves more like a strategic removal of large fan leaves over good bud sites.

I was starting to suspect this! Im glad you said something ... I figured that this might be the case...the photos were so convincing like i said before...lol... I was also thinking that a 1000w hps as opposed to my 400w mightve changed things as well.... Who knows...i do know im not experimenting with that one again/anytime soon. But i do give a "hats off" to anyone who does it with success

Lurkin4yrs · Oct 3, 2015

What strain were they running that was defoliated agressivly? I know gsc doesn't have very many leaves to begin with indoors, but it grows into a leafy bush outdoors.

Junk · Oct 3, 2015

Seamaiden said:
That's because you removed all the solar panels. I've never understood the logic behind defoliation (the removal of leaves) in response to trying to get bigger and better buds. Let me explain in a manner I hope will make a lot more sense.

A plant is geared to do two huge things--grow and reproduce. They grow by converting sunlight into sugars, which are exchanged with microbes, back and forth. The conversion of sunlight into sugars occurs mostly in the plant's solar panels, which evolved specifically to capture sunlight. While the conversion of sunlight into sugars can occur in the plant's reproductive organs, they are not normally the primary source or driver of these conversions, nor are they really configured in such a manner so as to allow for best collection and capture of sunlight. This is what leaves are for.

So if you remove the leaves, you're removing the plant's solar collectors, which means you're removing its ability to convert that light into sugars, which is how the plant grows and gives us flowers.

Another aspect to keep in mind is the plant's potential to convert sugars, which is limited by a few factors and can be increased by others.

What people should really be doing, in my humble opinion, is treating their cannabis like date palms and removing fruit (or in our case flowers) that has the poorest potential. This potential is the potential crop, or total yield possible from that given plant. The plant will flower and yield something even if you do nothing. The question then becomes one of quality of yield. We're not after little popcorny larfy buds, we want NUGGIES. This is achieved by doing some intelligent pruning, but not removing solar panels, removing flower sites is how. This is called by a few different names, one popular term is lollipopping.

What the goal is in that method is to remove the flower sites that will not develop well, those with the poorest potential, which leaves the plant free to spend its available energy on growing the best flowers, the most desirable flowers. Go to Dateland's site, read their date farming primer here: http://www.dateland.com/how-are-dates-grown/
And you'll TOTALLY get it. Or at least, once I read that, I totally got it.

In summary, instead of removing solar panels, pinch out those lower bud sites instead. Let the plant photosynthesize as much as it can (without creating a hairy monster) and I think you'll really be very pleasantly surprised by the difference in results.

I've also been saying this every chance I get. Aside from genetics, light is a big factor in the quality of plants you grow. So the people that do this, spend money on good lighting, then they remove the parts of the plant that captures said light. It makes no sense. Even if they use the free sunlight, you are just diminishing your capacity to absorb it. Someone else said it one time, I forget who, but he said picking off leaves is not much different than cutting out roots.

The latter part I just tried this round. I normally lollipop & leave it. I'm at like 5 weeks now maybe, I did a whole round of cutting week 4. Took out a lot of crap that isn't going to turn into anything. It took a day or two, but they are looking all the better for it.

gardnguyahoy · Oct 3, 2015

Lurkin4yrs said:
What strain were they running that was defoliated agressivly? I know gsc doesn't have very many leaves to begin with indoors, but it grows into a leafy bush outdoors.

Id have to track the post down again. It was purpleish but produced a LOT more then most gsc ive ever seen. Ill see if i cant find it.

Junk · Oct 3, 2015

gardnguyahoy said:
Id have to track the post down again. It was purpleish but produced a LOT more then most gsc ive ever seen. Ill see if i cant find it.

You're saying there is documentation on this technique working?

gardnguyahoy · Oct 3, 2015

Junk said:
You're saying there is documentation on this technique working?

Tis the only reason i tried my friend. I found it in one of kilo elements threads. The night owl one.

@Junk sick new avatar, dig it.

Junk · Oct 4, 2015

It's my senior yearbook photo. So the parents splurged on an outdoor. I should crop it so my whole head is in the picture, I'm a handsome guy.

I have evidence of it not working...everything this guy grows (below). Video evidence starts at the beginning, explanation starts at about 1:30 Try not to make too much fun of the guy, from another video someone posted, it's pretty clear he is on the Autistic spectrum. I even asked someone trained to diagnose symptoms of Autism what they thought, & they said "no doubt about it."

I'll try to find that thread, but the logic isn't there. (Kudos to you for trying it for yourself, I'm a big believer in testing the norms. I tried it for myself as well, accidentally) Now we have proof on the farm that it may not work as people say. When I say I tried it, on my very first run, someone told me to remove fan leaves that were covering bud sites. I had 12 plants in a 4' x 4' So that ended up being a lot of leaves. I showed the guy who told me, & he looked rather shocked & said, "No, don't take that many off dude, I mean like a a few if you need to." Overall, the plants didn't look as bad as the one above, much much worse actually :) But I kept many fan leaves on as I wasn't intentionally defoliating it. However I did take a lot off. I was about half way to where you are leaf wise. My plant looked worse obviously as it was my first time, & I was picking off the fan leaves. I already knew this didn't make sense, but I figured i'm just giving way for the other leaves to pick up the light energy. & a pretty good grower told me to do it. It wasn't until later that I realized I misunderstood the instructions. It was my first round so I was pretty excited regardless, then i realized how much these things shrink when you dry them. The next round I didn't take anything off except for the lollipop. They were all clones of the first round (except for the auto's I planted) so there was 8 plants. I kept them a little bigger, kept the same feeding (just a recipe I knew not to burn) & it was like a totally different plant. Now, I don't take anything off intentionally....well for the most part

You would be far better off in my opinion, to train & mainline. Train your main tops to give each other plenty of space. Lollipop before the flip, then let the leaves to their thing. Above ground, it all starts with the leaves. Like @Seamaiden solar panel analogy, whatever light you are giving it, you just decreased the plants ability even obtain it.

Lurkin4yrs · Oct 4, 2015

I normally lollipop around week 3, usually after strech unless I need plant material (clones). I do get rid of alot of stuff during veg tho.

-lurkin

gardnguyahoy · Oct 4, 2015

Unfortunately, I lost my entire chem dogg to bud rot.

Lurkin4yrs · Oct 4, 2015

gardnguyahoy said:
Unfortunately, I lost my entire chem dogg to bud rot.

Damn bud rot is the devil

gardnguyahoy · Oct 4, 2015

Na jk. Everything went great.

I decided to just cut the chem dogg. It looked ready as hell, and it could no longer stand up.

All three ghosts are cut as well. Which pretty much concludes my journal. I might post a smoke report but....eh.

Whatevs. Lol

3N1GM4 · Oct 4, 2015

I made some bud rot into bho but I just vape, no smoking, so I dont know if it would be good smoked but it was good in vaporizer.

tattoojim · Oct 4, 2015

do not use bud rot for anything...that shit is poison

Lurkin4yrs · Oct 4, 2015

Keep it goin! :fire: <-learned that today

My First Indoor Setup! Pointers?

My First Indoor Setup! Pointers?

gardnguyahoy

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

gardnguyahoy

Lurkin4yrs

ShroomKing

Best of luck. Peace

3N1GM4

gardnguyahoy

Lurkin4yrs

Junk

gardnguyahoy

Junk

gardnguyahoy

Junk

Lurkin4yrs

gardnguyahoy

Lurkin4yrs

gardnguyahoy

3N1GM4

tattoojim

Unknown farmer

Lurkin4yrs

My First Indoor Setup! Pointers?

My First Indoor Setup! Pointers?

gardnguyahoy

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

gardnguyahoy

Lurkin4yrs

ShroomKing

Best of luck. Peace

3N1GM4

gardnguyahoy

Lurkin4yrs

Junk

gardnguyahoy

Junk

gardnguyahoy

Junk

Lurkin4yrs

gardnguyahoy

Lurkin4yrs

gardnguyahoy

3N1GM4

tattoojim

Unknown farmer

Lurkin4yrs

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