Organic Soil Mix

[Udyana Peace]

Hey any thoughts on my mix, specifically. i.e. ratios etc.

I am thinking about adding more rock dust when I get my delivery.

Also, the gypsum and oyster shell amounts.

Just curious.

mrbong73

I'm really big on rock dusts in general and especially using a mix.

Using just the following (for example) I'd probably make a mix something like this:

4x Canadian Glacial Rock Dust
1x Oyster Shell Powder (Calcium Carbonate)
1x Gypsum (Calcium and Sulpher)
1x Soft Rock Phosphate (Phosphorus and Calcium @ 24%)

You have 3 Calcium sources with this mix along with a reliable Phosphorus source and the complete range of minerals (micronutrients if you will).

Couple that with Kelp and you have the whole deal going - minerals, chelating compounds from the kelp, PGR, hormones, enzymes, etc. One could argue that kelp is as much of a mineral source as it is a Potassium source.

You also have Calcium in the crustacean meals. Earthworm castings are literally covered with a slime that is Calcium Carbonate. The thermal compost is loaded with Calcium from the plant materials used. Calcium is friggin' everywhere - it makes up 4% of the earth's crust.

HTH

UP

 

[mrbong73]

mrbong73

I'm really big on rock dusts in general and especially using a mix.

Using just the following (for example) I'd probably make a mix something like this:

4x Canadian Glacial Rock Dust
1x Oyster Shell Powder (Calcium Carbonate)
1x Gypsum (Calcium and Sulpher)
1x Soft Rock Phosphate (Phosphorus and Calcium @ 24%)

You have 3 Calcium sources with this mix along with a reliable Phosphorus source and the complete range of minerals (micronutrients if you will).

Couple that with Kelp and you have the whole deal going - minerals, chelating compounds from the kelp, PGR, hormones, enzymes, etc. One could argue that kelp is as much of a mineral source as it is a Potassium source.

You also have Calcium in the crustacean meals. Earthworm castings are literally covered with a slime that is Calcium Carbonate. The thermal compost is loaded with Calcium from the plant materials used. Calcium is friggin' everywhere - it makes up 4% of the earth's crust.

HTH

UP

Great! Thank you UP!
Get my new amendments tomorrow. So this is what I'm thinking I will add to the mix.
6 cups Gaia Green Glacial Rock Dust
1 cup Gypsum
1 cup Soft Rock Phosphate (all I have left)
1/2 cup Crustacean meal
1/4 cup Kelp meal

That will bring me to around 2 cups meal mix per cubic foot.
I have 25lbs of homemade Bokashi bran still. I may toss a shovel full in as well.
Can't wait to get this mix in action.
It should be a water only kinda deal but I'm sure I'll play around with the usual Humic/Fulvic, AEM, kelp extracts, FPE, AACT, seed meal teas, etc, etc.

 

[Udyana Peace]

Planting Mix Test

mrbong73

Here's the planting mix that I bought and I will be using this mix rather than my own.

20% Planet Earth Portland Compost - 20% Oregon’s Own Portland Topsoil - 15% Steer compost - 15% Mushroom compost - 20% Pumice - 10% Coarse Sand - Worm castings - VAM mycorrhizal fungi

* Plante Earth Compost - Organic fruit, vegetable, leaf, and grass compost

* Oregon's Own Portland Topsoil - Our Screened Garden Blend Portland Topsoil is a dark all-natural product with a very low clay content. This soil starts with reclaimed Portland soil and decomposed plant material from Portland garden and yard excavations. It is then screened in a 3/8" minus sieve to ensure a smooth consistency and minimal clumps.

* The organic steer manure and organic mushroom compost (this is not the usual SMS product) are from the farm that produces the Marwest Compost product as well as the GroundUp Earthworm Castings​

To each 6 gallons of this mix I'll add 1 gallon of Malibu Biodynamic Compost, 1 gallon of my earthworm castings. I'll mix these together and add about 1 gallon of rice hulls and mix completely. Then add this to the planting mix.

The Fix is In...........

10 cups Canadian Glacial Rock Dust
1.5 cup oyster shell powder (out of San Francisco Bay)
1.5 cup of Sul-Po-Mag (Langbeinite, sulfate of potash magnesia)
3/4 cup SEA-Agri 90 - sea minerals

Done with minerals.

2 cup of an alfalfa and linseed seed mix
1.5 cup of fish bone meal
1.5 cup of fish meal

Done witn 'ferts'

2 cups of a Kelp, Neem/Karanja Meal Mix & Crab Meal mix

Done with the fix-it amendments.

Hit with a balanced AACT, let it sit for 3 or 4 weeks and I should be ready to go.

HTH

BTW - the planting mix base is $1.66 per 1 c.f. so I'm in pretty deep on the financial aspect.

UP

 

[mrbong73]

UP,
That White Lightning mix looks really nice!

I wish I could get something like that in bulk (at that price) in my area.
Any Bokashi bran going in this time?
I may just save mine and use it for my Bokashi bins. Although everything I have planted using the B.bran in the mix has done great.

Re: wetting agent
I am thinking of mixing up some aloe vera juice (2oz/gal) and wetting the mix down with that. (maybe add some kelp extract also.)
I will also apply an AACT using the Haystack Farms alfalfa meal and Marwest compost.

Thank you again for all your help getting this mix together.

Now if I can only get my cloning technique dialed in I will be in good shape.

MrB

 

[Udyana Peace]

MrBong

Since this is your thread I thought I should post this here and not muck-up the genuine science being presented on the Veganics Thread.

FPE/BIM

While it is not necessary to use EM-1 to make these concoctions what this addition does provide is a high level of odor control. Fermented dandelions, comfrey (especially), nettle, etc. are almost tolerable if certain strains of lactobacillus are included.

Without this addition the smell is beyond putrid. You can't even have it fermenting in your garage if it's attached to your home. The smell is that pervasive.

Now when it comes to trying to extract a plant's 'secondary metabolites' fermenting is probably not the best way to go. Using a straight enzyme agent (like papain) will extract these compounds without diminishing their effectiveness as happens when fermenting using lactobacillus strains.

Secondary metabolites are organic compounds that are not directly involved in the normal growth, development, or reproduction of an organism. Cocaine would be considered one. THC is another. i.e. many/most recreational and medicinal plants. The aroma from a flower is a result of these compounds.

So if you're wanting to make an insecticide from rosemary leaves and mint (like EcoTrol) then you would achieve far better results using papain vs. EM-1 or however you get there.

Limonoids, terpenes (like those found in neem seeds) don't do well with lactobacillus cultures but do extremely well when using papain.

Many fish hydrolysate producers use papain as the method of extraction. Some use EM-type products. Some use both.

UP

 

[mrbong73]

UP
Thanks for the info. I admit I have a ton to learn regarding FPE and BIM. I will have to do more research on the papain. Sounds really interesting.

The final soil mix seems to be perfoming well. I have some clones in it now and they are looking really nice. The true test will be how it holds up over the course of the cycle and beyond.
I will probably end up top dressing with my fert mix and some compost every two or three weeks to keep things happy.
I'll post some pics soon.

mrb

So I understand the marwest compost has dropped in quality as of late. I ended up mixing 1 bag marwest with 3 bags malibu to come up with my compost mix I will be using.

 

[MizzaFishKilla]

Just confirmed my order to complete my organic purchases for awhile. (yeah right)

1ea. 50lb organic Alfalfa meal (Haystack Farm, OR)
1ea. 50lb Kelp Meal
1ea. 50lb Crustacean Meal (crab and shrimp shell)
1ea. 50lb Fish Meal
1ea. 50lb Glacial Rock Dust (Gaia Green)
2ea. 1.5cf Marwest Organic Compost
1ea. 3lb Kelp Extract (Acadian)
1ea. 1lb Endo Granulated

All that delivered to my door for around $350
Not bad at today's gas prices.

I saw your order list - quite impressive. I have to tell you, though, that the Marwest compost has really gone downhill over the last month. I used to love it, now it looks like barely composted wood chips. I can't attest to the biological diversity in the compost, but like I said, it looks like wood chips composted for a few months.

 

[mrbong73]

I saw your order list - quite impressive. I have to tell you, though, that the Marwest compost has really gone downhill over the last month. I used to love it, now it looks like barely composted wood chips. I can't attest to the biological diversity in the compost, but like I said, it looks like wood chips composted for a few months.

I agree on the Marwest. Read through a thread on it elsewhere recently. (edit: maybe that was your thread I read)
I mixed one bag Marwest with three bags Malibu.
Here are some pics.

 

[MizzaFishKilla]

Mrbong, were you as disappointed as I was upon opening the bag of Marwest?

Yep, I started a thread at the "I See Can" site 2 weeks ago or so. I did the same as you, mixed it with another bag of compost (Vital Earth). Can I ask where the Malibu came from? I've only heard about, never seen it. Thought it was fictional until I saw your picture here. How long did you/are you going to let it cook before you put any plants into the mix? That mix should grow a real healthy layer of fungus on top while cooking/composting!

 

[mrbong73]

MizzaFishKilla,
Yeah a little disapointed. I had heard good things about it. Now I wish I would have ordered the Vital Earth instead. Oh well, I'm happy with the compost mix I have now along with the Agrowinn castings.
Just put some clones into the mix a couple of days ago. They are looking really good. I'll put up some pics soon.
I found the Malibu at a local nursery.
Here is a link to the distribution list.
mrb

 

[mrbong73]

Here's a couple shots of my clones in the new soil mix. The larger plant in the 5 gal plastic pot is a corleone og and the rest are my fire og.

 

[Shredder]

mrbong73

Here's the planting mix that I bought and I will be using this mix rather than my own.

20% Planet Earth Portland Compost - 20% Oregon’s Own Portland Topsoil - 15% Steer compost - 15% Mushroom compost - 20% Pumice - 10% Coarse Sand - Worm castings - VAM mycorrhizal fungi

* Plante Earth Compost - Organic fruit, vegetable, leaf, and grass compost

* Oregon's Own Portland Topsoil - Our Screened Garden Blend Portland Topsoil is a dark all-natural product with a very low clay content. This soil starts with reclaimed Portland soil and decomposed plant material from Portland garden and yard excavations. It is then screened in a 3/8" minus sieve to ensure a smooth consistency and minimal clumps.

* The organic steer manure and organic mushroom compost (this is not the usual SMS product) are from the farm that produces the Marwest Compost product as well as the GroundUp Earthworm Castings​

To each 6 gallons of this mix I'll add 1 gallon of Malibu Biodynamic Compost, 1 gallon of my earthworm castings. I'll mix these together and add about 1 gallon of rice hulls and mix completely. Then add this to the planting mix.

The Fix is In...........

10 cups Canadian Glacial Rock Dust
1.5 cup oyster shell powder (out of San Francisco Bay)
1.5 cup of Sul-Po-Mag (Langbeinite, sulfate of potash magnesia)
3/4 cup SEA-Agri 90 - sea minerals

Done with minerals.

2 cup of an alfalfa and linseed seed mix
1.5 cup of fish bone meal
1.5 cup of fish meal

Done witn 'ferts'

2 cups of a Kelp, Neem/Karanja Meal Mix & Crab Meal mix

Done with the fix-it amendments.

Hit with a balanced AACT, let it sit for 3 or 4 weeks and I should be ready to go.

HTH

BTW - the planting mix base is $1.66 per 1 c.f. so I'm in pretty deep on the financial aspect.

UP

I'm a little confused on your rates of crab meal, neem cake, kelp. Along with rock dusts, k-mag, oyster shell powder. Are your numbers for every 6 gallons? or another rate?

Nice ingredients list BTW, sadly a lot of that stuff for me is mail order only, (MI) but I am finally starting to use my own homemade EWC and screened compost. Heady times. I do have some meem cake (neem resource) and crab meal from neptunes harvest, the only local type I found.

One more question (s) (the last I promise) How do you recycle this mix? rest, then add more of the same? mix used with new? thanks........shredder

 

[Udyana Peace]

Shredder

LocalHarvest.org is a site for consumers to find organic produce, CSA farms, etc. If you call one of your local producers I'm sure that they will be more than happy to help you out on soil amendments. Usually the local farm store will have most of what you want or need.

Also there's an organization in MI called something like MOFFA (Michigan Organic Farm 'something' Association). That would be another source to look into perhaps.

HTH

UP

 

[mrbong73]

Shredder:
I think he is starting with 9 or so gallons of base mix (6+1+1+1) and then adding the stated amounts of minerals.
The kelp,neem,crab is pre-mixed (equal parts is good) then added.
I'm not sure about UP but I have mixed up twice as much soil as I need for one cycle. The first half is being used now while the second half sits.
When done with the current round I will dump all the used soil on a tarp then add the second half and mix.
I will then add fresh compost, ewc and fert/mineral mix and let that sit until I am ready to transplant.
Anyway, that's the plan as of now.
mrb

A couple pics from my weekend adventures.

 

[Seamaiden]

Mr. Bong, you spent the weekend only a couple of hours directly south of us. Blaze came over this last weekend to do a site consultation, as I'm going to go bigger with the OD growing this year. Considering starting a thread to pick brains on how best to handle our rocky clay, but I do have a good idea on where I'm going to start.

Two big questions in my mind are how deep (front-to-back) I want the beds, and how best to handle the clay amending itself. All the old-timers out here say hit it with gypsum. The question arises because I would prefer to use as little trucked-in soil as possible, but that may not be so easily done. Ah! Forgot to call the county ag extension re: soil testing! D'oh! I forgot about that.

 

[mrbong73]

Seamaiden:
Nice! It was an awesome weekend. It snowed off and on and the sun would come out. Truly amazing place. Not really that crowded either, which was nice.

I spent most of the 90's in Chico so I know N Cal pretty well.

I saw you were working on the outdoor soil prep. Nice! I wish I had more property to do something like that.
I would say adding gypsum and maybe oyster shell would be beneficial. Also lots of compost and EWC.

 

[Udyana Peace]

mrbong73

The SmartPots' company introduced a product last summer called the Compost Sak which is a 100-gallon fabric pot that you use as a compost bin or worm bin, etc. It's made from a similar fabric like the SmartPots line but it's thinner and it would be a mess trying to use it as a growing container.

Here's a photo from their web site showing how they're loaded:

These run $40.00 each and if you order 2 they pay the S&H so not a bad deal.

At any rate I started using these to hold the pre-mixed potting soil and by using this you're assured that you will have no anaerobic conditions to deal with as can happen when using the usual Rubbermade tubs.

Just like their growing containers, these bags will give you the ability to completely wet-down the soil mix with water and when you apply an AACT to get things moving quickly.

For mixing seed meals, minerals, etc. there is a product that you might consider - the ODJOB which is actually a small cement mixer. Here's what they look like:

http://t2.invalid.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0CWUS6fY31DRILXDyWQVFBKHiDIJ6ULaEg4iQH03jGD3GMUKU

They hold about 1 c.f. and the large inverted 'fins' really do a good job of thoroughly mixing your amendments. I paid something like $35.00 from Amazon a couple of years back.

As you can see from the photo you just roll it along the ground with your foot and in a few minutes you're done.

I pre-mix my amendments in 3 categories to keep things simple:

1. Regular soil amendments (fish meal, alfalfa, et al.)
2. The 'Fix It Mix' - kelp, neem and crustacean meal
3. Minerals

I store them in regular paint buckets with lids and have it marked as to what the mix contains and in what ratios, date of mixing and application rate to the soil mix.

KISS

UP

EDIT: One thing about mixing soil amendments and mineral mixes - alway measure by volume and not by weight. Especially on the mineral mixes.

 

[Seamaiden]

Udyana... that thing's BRILLIANT! Man, what I did to my shoulder mixing soil the other day for new transplants... jeez.

As for that SmartSak, how would it work for composting? I look at it and think, "That thing's gonna come up to my chest, how would I turn it?"

 

[mrbong73]

I may look into getting a couple of those compost saks as a pre compost holding container. My inputs come gradually so I can build up a sizable mass then dump both into my cinderblock compost bin to start the process.
Hmm...

 

[mrbong73]

Here's a little update on how things are going in my world. The plants are responding nicely to the LST and are waiting for the flower box to become available. They're on day 46 of flower so about 2 1/2 more weeks left.